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[demi]

Cinematic battles only works in more interactive titles such as Kingdom Hearts II and it only works because of the QTE events, cinematics themselves set up the scene in standard role-playing titles.

 

[ethelred]

"Hey guys let's restart a thread that a pissed off Dragona locked, I think that's a good idea!"

 

[kaizoku]

Cinematic battles only works in more interactive titles such as Kingdom Hearts II and it only works because of the QTE events, cinematics themselves set up the scene in standard role-playing titles.

this is basically what I tried to explain to Dice before he got angry.

you cant have turn based, guys stand in a line, menu driven battles which are also cinematic without either

a) cinematic animated sequences
b) interactive button inputs
c) dynamic shifts in battle i.e. mario rpg

just my short brainstorm, not a long considered thesis or anything. also option a needs to be avoided cos it sucks and takes ages.

 

[charlequin]

I offered up an idea here which nobody responded to. Himuro, any thoughts?

 

[Ranger X]

Personally i think it's nice when RPGs are having cinematic battles and Final Fantasy was pretty much the king of that style.
While i was reading the other thread that got closed i remembered something that does turn me off in MMOs and also in FF12...
With those RPG, that cinematic feel is gone in the battle (imo). All spells are a little burst of color and all attacks are also toned down in animation. That's one of the reasons a MMOs style doesn't appeal me.

On the other side there are gamers that are happy about that, that skip the summons, prefer it quick and all that. I can understand their point of view but I'm completely the opposite of them. I truly wish FF13 returns to a more cinematic experience like before.
And it's NOT hard to achieve.

 

[Senretsu]

For some reason the camera angles in Final Fantasy VII seem better and more cinematic like than the newer FF games, not sure why, maybe it was the slow moving camera when you cast a spell, or how the angle would move away from the standard angle during special attacks and then return. However its looking like Final Fantasy XIII is the up and coming cinematic battle game. The one shot where she shoots all the enemies and it shows the HP taken, hopefully the game will really be like that. If the cinematics get to be very long, I think there should be some interactivity like some of the limit breaks.

I agree though, Kingdom Hearts II was incredible, I'm still working my way through it, but some of the bosses are amazing with all the flipping around, jumping, flying, and knocking shit up.

Some of the battles in Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker were very cinematic due to the nature of the graphics and the ability to lock on to the huge moving bosses, looked like watching a cartoon.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Three words: Panzer Dragoon Saga. That's how you do cinematic battles in an RPG.

 

[Zonar]

Three words: Panzer Dragoon Saga. That's how you do cinematic battles in an RPG.

QFMFT!

 

[djtiesto]

Chalk me up as one of the people who like their battles quick, yet strategic. The SMT games nailed the turn based encounters this gen... DQ8 would have been absolutely perfect for me as well if there were less loading times when doing moves.

Cinematics look cool the first few times you see them but after the 50th time they get really old and annoying. Remember all the complaints about the FF7/8 summon spells?

 

[P90]

Xenosaga! *Runs*

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

So you're saying it's impossible for them to be evolved and that every single fight will use the same cinematic approach? Play Kingdom Hearts II. It is possible to have fast paced action and still make it cinematic.

Yea, but KH2 isn't turnbased.

 

[nitewulf]

only boss battles should be cinematic. every other random encounter will turn tedious if they are cinematic.

and the boss battles should be turned more cinematic by using sweeping camera angles, character close ups, smirks, remarks, laughter and conversion as they are fighting. basically they have to show the players engage in a fight that plays out...with smacktalking, grunts, yelling etc. NOT the BS hit that switch, and cut that rope shit. that just feels stupid.

check anachronox...that game had awesome cinematic battles. alas...

 

[SolidSnakex]

So are we just talking about big sweeping cameras or something like FF13 where its more about making the action look like an action game instead of your typical turn based RPG? That's what the other thread was discussing.

 

[nitewulf]

like i said, check out one american rpg once in your life and be impressed. anachronox.

edit: i checked out that ff13 trailer you linked to, and if you think every battle will play out like that you would be dead wrong, and i'd bet on that.
only specific event sequences and boss battles will be like that, like skies of arcadia. i'd bet money on it.

every other 35th random encounter will definitely not be like that, and thank god for that.

 

[Error]

So are we just talking about big sweeping cameras or something like FF13 where its more about making the action look like an action game instead of your typical turn based RPG?

why not play an action game then?

 

[SolidSnakex]

why not play an action game then?

Because I can play FFXIII with that type of battle system.

 

[MrDaravon]

this is basically what I tried to explain to Dice before he got angry.

you cant have turn based, guys stand in a line, menu driven battles which are also cinematic without either

a) cinematic animated sequences
b) interactive button inputs
c) dynamic shifts in battle i.e. mario rpg

just my short brainstorm, not a long considered thesis or anything. also option a needs to be avoided cos it sucks and takes ages.

I largely agree with this. Cinematic battles in a turn-based RPG seems to be a conflict. Who knows though. What came to mind in the first thread was Grandia 2. That used the epic attacks/camera sweeps/etc in a pretty fair and enjoyable fashion that didn't get TOO crazy (ie. turned it into an action game or a cinematic borefest).

A lot of what people are saying sounds almost like they want RPGs to play like an action game, which would...make it an action game. In general terms, if you replaced an RPGs battles with action game sequences, that'd essentially make it an action game with a much better/deeper plot than average correct? So maybe alternately action games could be made longer and more plot driven?

By giving a RPG a heavier action-type system, it changes it into something else, which is not what I want from an RPG. Don't give me that innovation bullshit either. Sure there's room for improvement and so on, but I think a lot of people want extreme battles, let's say like KH2 off the top of my head. This isn't about having a different battle system, that'd be making the game a different genre. RPGs are loosely defined by 2 things: longer and more involved plots than most games, and a RPG type battle system of some kind or variant there of. If you make the battles into action game type sequences, you're taking away the RPG battle system and you're essentially playing an action game with more plot.

If you want an action game, play Devil May Cry.
If you want an action RPG play Kingdom Hearts.
If you want a traditional "type" RPG play Dragon Quest 8.

We don't need to combine genres here.

 

[Parch]

Ya, Grandia 2 was exactly what I was thinking too. Lots of running around and fancy magic made it feel like an wild and crazy action RPG, but it was still turn-based. Combat was a blast and I thought it was a great gameplay system. I'd definately like to see more of the same.

 

[goodcow]

Three words: Panzer Dragoon Saga. That's how you do cinematic battles in an RPG.

IAWTP.

PDS has the best battle system ever, it's just a shame the difficulty was so lacking, especially since the shooters are hard.

 

[MrDaravon]

IAWTP.

PDS has the best battle system ever, it's just a shame the difficulty was so lacking, especially since the shooters are hard.

If PDS wasn't stupid expensive I'd like to check it out and see what you guys are talking about

 

[nitewulf]

If PDS wasn't stupid expensive I'd like to check it out and see what you guys are talking about

well, it was cinematic because you were flying a dragon, and fought moving enemies...so you were constantly in motion. and at times you had edge (the hero) thinking out loud, basically telling you what move to do, or at times you had someone along for the ride who'd converse with you. basically the things i alluded to in my post. thats how you create apparent interactivity, not by cutting a ****ing rope.

 

[thetrin]

Cinematic battles only works in more interactive titles such as Kingdom Hearts II and it only works because of the QTE events, cinematics themselves set up the scene in standard role-playing titles.

I think if you have more complicated QTE, like something rhythm game-ish, for powerful attacks, you could definitely pull off something more cinematic. For instance, for spells, you may have to do a specific rhythm or movement to summon a creature.

 

[demi]

How does Anachronox play?

 

[lyre]

Cinematics are overbearingly overrated. Adding them (as well as incessant and unnecessary voice acting, most likely terrible ones at that) to battles would be one of the most ass backwards retarded thing to do for the genre. You might as well ask for more 45+ minute cutscenes, less gameplay and make people 'hurry up and wait'.

And there's a reason why the last thread was locked.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If you want an action game, play Devil May Cry.
If you want an action RPG play Kingdom Hearts.
If you want a traditional "type" RPG play Dragon Quest 8.

We don't need to combine genres here.

Hmm...

 

[MrDaravon]

This thread was closed for some reason, but I thought it was a pretty good thread for discussion.

Oh please.

Way to add to the discussion. You haven't even provided any specific examples of things you'd like to see, other than "why can't we make them more interactive/cinematic!" Put up or shut up.

Hmm...

:lol

You got me there, but you know what I meant .

 

[thetrin]

How does Anachronox play?

Like FF7 meets Daikatana.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

I think if you have more complicated QTE, like something rhythm game-ish, for powerful attacks, you could definitely pull off something more cinematic. For instance, for spells, you may have to do a specific rhythm or movement to summon a creature.

I think what RPG's need to do, if they go down the road of the cinematic tpye of shit with an active battle system, is basically do the same shit with QTE like in KHII but make it more of statistic thing. Like, with certain enemies you can do a said QTE action, but to do so you have to level up certain attributes to be able to make it go in your favor. If not in the shape to do so, the enemy goes through its own type of cinematic attack to you.

Just sounds like a cool idea I think.

 

[goodcow]

If PDS wasn't stupid expensive I'd like to check it out and see what you guys are talking about

Alright everyone, if you've never seen a PDS battle, watch this.

www.goodcowfilms.com/temp/pds_atolm_dragon.wmv

 

[nitewulf]

anachronox's battle system itself was like ff7's with a timer gauge filling up. you had regular attacks, special techniques and magic. pretty standard jrpg stuff. but the camera angles, close ups and conversations (before some of the battles IIRC) made it very nice and cool. well the rpg kicks ass anyway, due to the brilliant, witty dialogues and clever conversations and adventure segments.

oh man, now im depressed cause we'll never see the end of that...

 

[MrDaravon]

Played FFX-2? In FFX-2, you could parry enemy attacks by attacking them at the right time. It's turn based. What I'm saying is, just because a game is turn based doesn't mean it can't yield the same results, just in a different way. Let's say, for instance, a game uses the FFX-2 battle system where if you press attack they'll instantly attack their target. This can enemy attacks. Okay. What if the enemies begin to gang up on you and the game presents a qte like segment similarly to Kingdom Hearts II (except you press ONLY the triangle button, and make it more varied like in Shenmue). Being unable to deflect with the segment, the attack leaves you open, but the same happens to them if you are able to.

Another example: you're fighting a group of baddies in a room full of ropes. It's possible to beat them without messing with the ropes, but it's possible to target the ropes. By targeting the rope and attacking it you could swing on the rope, and bouncing off the walls, and then ramming the enemy in the gut with your weapon (whatever it is). In order to bounce off the wall you have to pull off the QTE sequence, and finally, when it comes time to attacking the enemy while on the rope, you have to press another button. If you msis, they attack you and you're the one to suffer. These attacks come in various speeds, so it'll actually be difficult to pull the segments off sometimes.

I haven't played FFX-2 but what you're describing in the 1st part sounds kinda like Mario RPG/Paper Mario, which I'm cool with. Where people are losing me personally is when you start whipping out qte button pushing sequences, which is not what I want out of a turn-based RPG. Quick Time Event and Turn Based are almost a contradiction in terms. RPGs generally don't require quick reflexes. What if you level up and carefully gird your characters for a battle, but personally SUCK at pushing buttons quickly/in order? The strategy element is gone in that case if you're not quick enough with the buttons, which is kind of lame.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

This thread managed to get stupider at an even quicker rate than the last one. Sorry Himu, I knew your intentions were good but...


GWARG.