Not much since most NGOs squander the money donated
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CNN: Green Party files for Wisconsin recount, audit
- Thread starter VeryGooster
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You can say that about any 5 million dollars spent on anything. This is pure entertainment.
I donated my money to the water protectors.
When all is said and done, it looks like this election cycle will have seen an expenditure north of $5 billions.
$5m is nothing in the context, and if it gives some people closure, I'm all for it.
How would you feel if this went the other way? During the election there were a ton of bullshit articles talking about the electronic voting machines being run by a soros owned company or some nonsense... Imagine some wing nut or tinfoil hat like Alex Jones raised 7 million to audit the machines... How would that come off to you? After all it would be Alex Jones (your crazy folk in this analogy) who got the audit to verify it was secure.
eyeball_kid
Member
Some people (computer scientists et al) believe that certain counties in three states don't make sense statistically. Others disagree. Stein is within her legal right to ask for a recount, so she raised the money and is doing it. There's no 'scam' here. Will they be able to get to the bottom of it with a recount? I don't know, but she's allowed to ask for it.
Everyone should want the democratic system to function properly. If there was vote fraud, we should know. Without being able to trust the process of our democratic system, it would no longer work for the people, and the country would become something no better than a banana republic.
Vestal
Gold Member
Just an fyi. In 2000 one machine in Florida at one point had gore at negative 30k votes. While I don't think much can come from this, keep in mind 60k votes is a drop in the bucket if something smart was done such as vote flipping using a limited random offset in a handful of high density counties.
yanipheonu
Member
Man could you imagine. I'd want to see this somehow work just to see the reactions.
The people who donated the money could have chosen to donate to any charity of their choice instead. That's on them.
Yuuuup. Put that $5 you spend on a latte or a pint into charity instead. Your body will thank you.
More fun to be a hypocrit, though.
Yeah the destabilization of an entire country with a potential of civil war would be hilarious to see!
This is what scares me.
It's a very interesting dilemma. What would be worse for the country, Donald Trump or the destruction of democracy?
Because proof of mass voter fraud will break us.
Does this in any way oblige Wisconsin to do anything, or is it just a petition? Because having the request get rejected, and then spending the next four years as the liberal hero who tried to force a recount with an election extra five million inher pocket sounds like the ideal result for Jill.
Is this a serious question?
R10Neymarfan
Member
If it's just $5 then I see no point in criticizing some people that want a second opinion. Or would you rather they spend that $5 to a company that uses it's earnings to profit and make peoples lives miserable all over the world or a charity that mostly will pocket it anyway?
At least this is a specific cause
The us would never recover as it stands.... Ever. It would be decades of rebuilding and the world economy would collapse. So if you have to ask this question you may need to reconsider your belief system.
Donald Trump is a shit head who can do tons of damage. The country collapsing would be potential for end times.
Edit- ok sorry my meter is off these days. I mean seriously we just donated 7 million to a conspiracy theorist who is peddling snake oil. We also just elected a reality TV star to the whitehouse.
yanipheonu
Member
Chuck Norris
Banned
How significant of an amount of voter fraud have to be uncovered for the election to be illegitimised or flipped in Hilary's favour?
Wouldn't change my opinion on the value of the process. I have zero belief that any votes are going to be changed. I do care about the security of these small districts, especially with regards to elections. I just wish it were mandatory nation-wide, and before the elections rather than after.
If huge companies can't prevent hacks, I have zero faith some underfunded tiny government arm can avoid them, and it's pretty important to me to at least try to check them. Current audit processes don't do this, however, so hopefully the additional scrutiny might surface some of this information and make the process better overall.
If there really was tampering (there wasn't!) there would be no democracy anyway. You might as well start from scratch. The "let's not rock the boat" mentality that some are spouting really makes no sense to me.
I find that commendable tbh. At least you have a strong value on what this actually is doing. Alex Jones running something like this would be laughed off the planet.(rightfully so imo). That being said if it was advertised as you put it fro. The get go? I'd have no issue with it.
Wag
Member
Give it to NASA so I can move to Mars.
Says right on Stein's fundraising page this has nothing to do with helping Hillary or flipping the vote. You are just uninformed.
You and others calling for this to happen are woefully misguided. Hell if we found Russian ties to hacking our polling systems it would likely lead to war with Russia, not to mention the millions of right wing nuts rising up against Trump being unseated. You need a reality check.
I think the idea is that the voting generates electronic and paper records. The recounts require checking the paper records to make sure they match the electronic ones. i.e. comparing the two could reveal if there was hacking. Even just comparing some subset of the two could reveal if there were irregularities.
No the vast majority of people donating to this are misinformed. You think it's a coincidence this is coming mere days after the article was released about suspicions from unnamed "top scientists" about Russian Boogeymen?
Perfect Blue
Banned
IdreamofHIME
Member
$2 million spent to confirm Trump won. People are literally giving these clowns stuff to crow about and be more nasty to the vulnerable, instead of helping those in need.
But it's easier to be a hypocrite though!
But yea, no one in here should trying to do the whole "It could be spent on something more important" shtick, unless you want to throw those stones through that glass house of yours... Because let's face it, we all spend our cash on shit that other people don't consider to be important.
wumster3000
Member
Yeah, I don't see them overturning his victory.
I think if there's mass voter fraud then it must be unveiled no matter what. If foreign interests were powerful enough to influence election results then it was all over to begin with anyway.
I agree, and I think the problem is that she probably wouldn't know anything other than the conspiracy theory rationale for motivating something like this. However, if she had positioned this as a computer security audit, I doubt she'd have gotten any attention or raised any money. We don't take computer security seriously enough -- especially not in smaller areas of government. So I don't care who funds it, or what their motives are, so long as these devices and the computer systems get at least a tiny ounce of oversight. So I think her motivations and Alex Jones' would also be, but I think the process it kicks off, regardless of what they want, is valuable.
Oh I absolutely agree. I'm not saying hide it, I'm saying hoping for that over Trump is sad. It would be the beginning of the end imo if a country of this status were to destabilize in that fashion.
I didn't say anything about the vast majority of people. I agree with what you say. Whether it's shady or smart of her is up to you.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
or any other aspect of capitalism. Like fridges. And food. Can't have that!
It's literal Fox News logic.
Either way, if it is only for the peace of mind that at least America is dumb and stupid enough to elect Trump, I believe it is a worthy cause. And I would say that this is also a sign to the GOP that people are willing to block them for the entire run. That message is worth it.
yanipheonu
Member
???
So what? Don't double check the election results? Would we be better off letting rigged results through? If Russia was involved in rigging the election, is it better to let that stand?
Frankly if the country is really divided enough that an election reversal would trigger a war, maybe war is inevitable. If not the election it'd be some other event.
It's not like I want that to happen either. There's this subtext that those calling for a recount are calling for anarchy or something that I don't agree with.
Funkyhamster
Member
I thought Alex Halderman (the Michigan computer security prof pushing for the recount) was arguing that it's good to do a recount just as a sanity check. The idea is that if the information needed for verification is there, we should do the verification in order to ensure the integrity of the results and dissuade meddling with the election. So even if the people who donated were sold a lie, I don't think it's fair to say the money would have been better spent digging a hole.
Skellig Gra
Member
Its just a recount they aren't looking at fraud.
LilWayneSuckz
Member
This is for the greater good....if it actually amounts to anything....
it won't but Jesus Christ, Donald Trump is the President Elect of the USA, we need everything we can throw
The Silver
Member
why is she doing this? I thought she hated Hilary more than Trump
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