llAuburnll
Banned
1) coding "better" does not solve these problems.
2) he shoots apart tiny pieces and a ton of different materials in the demo. It has a crap load of details for a pre alpha demo.
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Crackdown 3: 10 minute pre-alpha gameplay demo
- Thread starter MauroNL
- Start date
1) coding "better" does not solve these problems.
2) he shoots apart tiny pieces and a ton of different materials in the demo. It has a crap load of details for a pre alpha demo.
DHC-Shannow
Member
Did they confirm during the demo whether it was actually running on an XB1 or a Pc? And if the servers local or remote?
Certainly impressive to see but as I understand it, this doesn't actually help the GPU at all which is the weakest part of the XB1 in comparison to the PS4. If there's unlimited destruction to render I can see the cloud stuff being fine but the GPU struggling with the particles, transparencies etc.
Certainly impressive to see but as I understand it, this doesn't actually help the GPU at all which is the weakest part of the XB1 in comparison to the PS4. If there's unlimited destruction to render I can see the cloud stuff being fine but the GPU struggling with the particles, transparencies etc.
Battlefield hasn't had proper destruction in a while. Bad Company 2 had more destruction than BF3 or BF4.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
If you can watch the latest video and still not understand what makes this tech impressive, then it's hard not to see you as a troll...
I mean he created a scenario live, and showed exactly how much computational power it required (6x that of an xb1)... And you still have the nerve to saw it only 2 times as impressive as red faction.
Guys guys I'm not saying it lmooks bad, nor cloud computin is a shame or anything I'm just trying to understand what you find impressive in those videos that's it.
And of course I agree with all of you it's on another level of red faction it's OBVIOUS.
I'm just saying that for consoles allegedly 8 times more powerful this doesn't look 8 times better.
And I'm questionning not the viability of cloud computing but the necessity in what seem achievable on our console without it.
DarthWalden
Banned
Wow! An open world coop game with fully destructible environments... is this a first? This game is going to be the biggest time waster.
gamechanger87
Member
I think you should just stop posting for a little. This has nothing to do with coding. Absolutely nothing. Physics based destruction isn't a lazy dev coding issue. It is a brute force mathematical simulation issue. Better coding won't fix something when the cpu needs to brute force the calculations. Why do you think supercomputers are built to run simulations?
presagetogood
Member
Impressive is the contrast in spin and denial in this thread versus the love and literal blessings in the guerrilla games thread. Over there the dev confirms the targeted 2016 date and there are fucking minions and cats gifs all celebrating and blessing the developer. Here the developer said they used a buttload of computation and everybody suddenly becomes computer science experts who can't believe it, won't believe it, and jump through hoops to tell people they're wrong foot thinking this is awesome tech/impressive physics.
This game looks amazing.
This game looks amazing.
DarthWalden
Banned
Diminishing returns man.... 1080p games don't look 2.25x as good as 720p games despite the pixels.
They are using Azure compute services. Go read up on it. They are using Virtual Machines to do computations. There's no "local server" (that would technically be the xbox itself). They aren't showing how it could help the GPU for this game. Yes, there are computations that can help with graphics but this game doesn't exemplify that.
The Albatross
Member
If every developer can create this and achieve the same results "through coding better," then I think we would have seen destructive environments in more than just one noteworthy "blockbuster" series over the last 10 years.
I remember when Red Faction 1 came out, there was an expectation that wall deformations would be the norm from here on out, but really, it never emerged much past that series.
Although forgive me if I misread your post, as there might be a language barrier here.
I don't think that you need to question the necessity of it, as this is one of the first instances of a game that's utilizing it. I can't see the negative in having one game in the last 2 or 3 years try out a new technology. We have a million corridor shooters with beautiful environments but generally the same gameplay tropes, and so I can't see how it's harmful for one series to try to utilize available technology in a different way.
Also, just to put to bed the console warriors arguments: Cloud computations are available for Playstation developers, Wii developers, and even mobile developers. The only difference for Crackdown is that by partnering with Microsoft, Microsoft is letting them use Azure's distributed computing engine for little (or no?) cost. But any developer/producer could likely do the same and push other games in the same way using Amazon EC2, Google App Engine, and the handful of other high-capacity distributed computing platforms.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Edit: thread merge.
PanicFreak
Member
It allows for that awesome gif comparison though. That thing makes me chuckle.
gamechanger87
Member
That's where the cel shading comes in handy! The key here is to reduce the cpu strain so all it has to do is say render x in y spot rather than say where should we render this then send it to the gpu
Krappadizzle
Member
Witcher 3 was my next gen moment. Didn't do it for you huh?
The destruction here looks incredible. Makes me want to play Red Faction Guerrilla. Never played it for any meaningful amount of time.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Do you really think that th ebuilding doesn't look empty?
Ans the tyniest chunk I saw (from the building destruction) was bigger than one of the player on the bridge, so not that detailed to me.
As for material glass concrete and steel I didn't see anything else (of course if I missed something falling which is really probable just show me i'd happily enjoy new details).
llAuburnll
Banned
Every Crackdown thread too. It's hilarious.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Very promising tech.
I hope 3rd party devs pick it up, too.
I hope 3rd party devs pick it up, too.
Goldfishking
Member
What does that even mean?
If you can watch the latest video and still not understand what makes this tech impressive, then it's hard not to see you as a troll...
I mean he created a scenario live, and showed exactly how much computational power it required (6x that of an xb1)... And you still have the nerve to saw it only 2 times as impressive as red faction.
How can this
Be considered just 2x this
Are we in the same planet?
not to mention that every bit of the crackdown destruction creates a persistent, physical, interactable, object. i dont recall red faction doing that, even on the smaller scale. it even looks like much of the destruction immediately disappears in the gif.
Because this is useful IN ADDITION TO the power the console already has. Anything that helps out in this way is useful. Could it be done without the cloud by much stronger hardware? Probably (and would also probably increase dev time). Would that stronger console benefit from tech like this IN ADDITION TO the power it already has? Yes, without a doubt.
Yeah well his 'feelings' mean nothing when the developer puts real numbers on the screen for everyone to see, and those numbers are 3-13 times bigger than anything that's possible locally.
Same, but would require the game to be only on X1. PC as well.
That's correct for single player.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Actually it did. I was thinking more in terms of first party games so far (all three haven't really had anything that felt like it was really next gen).
Witcher 3 is the most next gen game out so far, by far.
This and Horizon are the games that could be like what Gears was for the 360 for me (Gears was my original "next gen" moment for first party).
Alx
Member
There's already much more than 8 times the amount of interacting elements in that sequence, and those things probably don't scale in a linear fashion (ie to handle 8 times more objects, you need much more than 8 times the processing power).
Besides that's only one building crumbling, and in the demo it took the processing equivalent of 4 or 5 Xboxes, according to the display and the speaker. Except that the game will let you destroy more than one building at a time, like we can see in the end of the demo.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough I never said It was badly coded I just said against the argument of how much computing it needs that you can create something heavy sometimes by coding in some way and really light by coding the other way and they'd both looks the same so maybe another engine might make it easier for hardware that was just it.
I know I am nothing to disregard the work of a developement team of course It just ddoesn't look like it need 4 or 5 xbox's one to run that's just what I'm saying.
This impressed me (fro Reddit)
Thats pretty damn cool.
llAuburnll
Banned
This is not the case in reality so we can just stop saying that and put it bed. They are not purposely coding it in a bad way to force the calculations onto a server.
Again, not sure why you aren't impressed or you can't see why this is not possible normally but hey whatever.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Sorry I'm not english I have a bit of trouble finding my word.
Maybe I hoped too much for this game I don't know I just thought i'd looked better and then seeing a bland world and empty buildings collapsing just disapointed me.
Even more since spiderman 2 and prototype which gave me a lust of movement freedom in open worlds.
How the hell can you say this seems possible without the cloud, when in the live demonstration, it was shown to use up to 13x the computational power (out of a max 20x) of a single console...
In terms of physics, there's not a game in existence that comes close to this in terms of scale? Trying to suggest otherwise is a lost cause...
is your issue with the visuals?
You do understand that this was a tech demonstration... They didn't showcase any actual gameplay elements... There world will be a livelier place in the full game, with traffic? Pedestrians, enemies etc... This was just a glimpse at the games engine
Chezzymann
Member
He specifically stated the guns are overpowered for the purposes of the demo
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Yeah, I don't see a reason why this wouldn't be possible on PC or Ps4 aswell.
I guess the biggest issue is building an engine that can handle the outsourcing of certain calculations. Providing actual servers to run these calculations on is more of a financial hurdle instead of a technical.
The way the rubble piles up looks pretty impressive.This impressed me (fro Reddit)
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Yeah i'm not saying that either but when I developped a few games in school I just saw that from the way you coded your game, you could really stress the cpu from nothing. And again maybe it's more the lack of details that turned me off.
Chezzymann
Member
It has literally nothing to do with the visuals. This is all CPU, not gpu
llAuburnll
Banned
It's a pre alpha demo.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
That's what I said a few posts ago maybe I'm allergic to the world itself they created, and I'm not trying to troll or anything It's just that I see you guys getting excited and everything and I don't understand why, and it frustrates me because it's not clicking for me.
Does make me wonder how much of these physics calculations could potentially have been managed by GPU compute instead. The only other game this gen that really shows off particle heavy destruction is Resogun, which has up to 500,000 voxels on screen at any one time (at 60fps no less), but that has GPU accelerated physics calculations instead of CPU (due to it being vastly more capable at the task). Obviously in Crackdown you have other far more taxing things the GPU will have to work on, but it is a game from a bigger studio, and releasing further on in the console's life cycle comparatively. Either way, it seems Crackdown is still very much focused on using CPU calculated physics instead of GPU.
money is the big issue,
Winnie the Pimp
Member
I really really didn't wanna buy an XB1 damnit but this.... 
Mr. Giggles
Member
Weeeee, that looks like fun.
Although the buildings fall like jenga blocks :/
Can the debris kill you like in BF3/4 ?
MMaRsu
Banned
Not really that limited. IN rfg you could start 9n the left and the building would fall like it should.
For consoles so much more powerful than a 360 I dont see anything mindblowing tbh.