Vincent Alexander
Member
I would do terrible, sexy things to have more Legacy of Kain.
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Crystal Dynamics Keeps Posting About Raziel on Twitter
- Thread starter Alexious
- Start date
Brerlappin
Member
Don't play with my emotions like this
Jawmuncher
Member
I could see a remake/reboot of the original. Easier to design and less prone to fuck up. Then you can use that to gauge interest in going further.
Series has been so quiet and gone that youll appea to more people with something like that than making a soul reaver 3.
Series has been so quiet and gone that youll appea to more people with something like that than making a soul reaver 3.
FantasticMrSnake
Member
Robdraggoo
Member
She wrote all of the soul reaver games
AlteredForms
Banned
Am I the only one that enjoyed LOK: Defiance?
Unfortunately no, it's a PS1 classic release so it's PS3/PSP/Vita only.
Shambalakan
Member
Yes please!
I don't think they'll make a sequel. They released Defiance in 2003. Next game (if they're working on it) will be available about 3 generations later and reboot is more logical than a sequel.
I don't think they'll make a sequel. They released Defiance in 2003. Next game (if they're working on it) will be available about 3 generations later and reboot is more logical than a sequel.
Shifty
Member
Thought experiment: What if Amy Hennig does her best work when she has full creative control, rather than having to comply with the brand vision of an established franchise under AAA game market conditions?
She's the first person I would trust to do right by the LoK series.
Melchiah
Member
Well, REmake did happen, although there was only six years inbetween it and the original, and the series wasn't buried. Anyways, I was talking about the optimal scenario, however unlikely that may be.
There is so much they could do considering Kain was trying to manipulate reality itself, if they wanted they could have that help reboot things, have him been partially successful and causes a new line with another version of himself and even Raziel to show up. Later you get the old Kain showing up and that way you get old and new fans to enjoy an epic tale.
Yall crazy this is just them teasing this IP becoming available on Squenix's Collective program so that people can pitch games that we will still have to crowd fund and then wait another 5 years to see...
There seems to be no reason to revive this especially with SE's recent remarks regarding MP/Online focused games.
There seems to be no reason to revive this especially with SE's recent remarks regarding MP/Online focused games.
get ready for the LoK MOBAAAAAA
Don't even joke like that.
jipewithin
Member
Would be insanely great if they would remake soulreaver or make a new game.
Maybe, just maybe, they think making a good game would be worth it. Case in point:
I'm actually expecting The Witcher lite for a Soul Reaver/Blood Omen reboot. Big RPGs are doing great these days.
Man, I would love more Legacy of Kain, y'all.
Damn, why are there still no PS1 Classics on PS4? It's literally the only PlayStation branded system that can't play 'em. :/
Damn, why are there still no PS1 Classics on PS4? It's literally the only PlayStation branded system that can't play 'em. :/
Papacheeks
Banned
I know she did, but she did over a decade ago. And her track record as of late in writer/director hasn't been super great with other creative leads according to some.
That's all I'm saying.
Robdraggoo
Member
Nah, its great. It strayed from the soul reaver formula so i think at the time is was looked down upon for being more action focused.Am I the only one that enjoyed LOK: Defiance?
But its good game.
Itchy//Tasty
Member
If true I hope they dont change a thing about him visually. Perfect design.
Baraka Obama
Banned
this is squeenix, so expect nothing.
The whole series. Kain's redesign in Soul Reaver is outstanding, while Raziel is this perfect fusion of cool and grotesque.
The world of the Kain series is too good to never be touched again. I can listen to their speeches and be enthralled every time. The Pillars conversation in Soul Reaver 2 is just as amazing now as it was then.
Am I the only one that enjoyed LOK: Defiance?
Which game had a section near the start where you're chasing someone across rooftops? I think there was a cathedral type place as well
Robdraggoo
Member
It better be something. Otherwise teasing poeple like this after 14 years is needlessy cruel.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
Don't do this to my heart after e3.
Melkezadek
Member
Pretty sure that was Blood Omen 2 before you fight Marcus, the second boss.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
This is Hennig's story so I'd prefer if they continue or remake it she is involved in some way.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Huh. Please, no. Stay dead.
After seeing a) what Dead Sun would have been (a modern Ubi-like "open-world" disgrace) and b) what modern Crystal Dynamics has done with Tomb Raider, I sure as shit don't want them touching LoK.
Kain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Raziel
Dyack is a stupid buffoon now, but that's no reason to erase him from the equation.
.... soooooo good
After seeing a) what Dead Sun would have been (a modern Ubi-like "open-world" disgrace) and b) what modern Crystal Dynamics has done with Tomb Raider, I sure as shit don't want them touching LoK.
HEAR HEAR
Kain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Raziel
Okay that would be seriously amazing. Bloodborne x Legacy of Kain.... :O
It still holds up pretty well, actually, but yeah, it would need more than a remaster.
Bullshit. Look, I like what Amy did with LoK and I always defend her, but she did not invent the franchise, the world, story or characters. Denis Dyack did.
Dyack is a stupid buffoon now, but that's no reason to erase him from the equation.
It's on PSN. Playable on PS3, PSP and Vita.
No, I did too. Finally playing Kain again was such a joy. And thatAm I the only one that enjoyed LOK: Defiance?
duel where you play both sides
Melchiah
Member
No thanks. Unfortunately, there's a high chance it would be made according to the current open world fad, instead of the more interesting structure it had.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
LoK: Dead Sun was essentially Shadow of Mordor without orcs (before SoM was even a thing). It was gonna be focus-tested hot garbage.
Linear games are dead, son. Unless you want the return of LoK to be a noble flop, like Dishonored and Prey.
My heart wouldn't stand another cliffhanger though.
Melchiah
Member
Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, Hellblade, Nioh, Resident Evil 7, and Uncharted 4 seemed to do pretty well. There's no chance a Legacy of Kain game would get the kind of budget like Witcher 3 and Horizon Zero Dawn had, so it would be yet another mediocre open world game, destined to be buried and forgotten again.
Not Bloodborne nor DS are linear games.
RE7, as much as I love it, underperformed. Hellblade is a 5 hours indie with zero gameplay variety, the kind you wouldn't like LoK to be, and Ni-Oh is a niche title.
If you think SE will be happy with a game selling 700K copies I feel bad for you.
Go big or go home. If they want to bring it back, bring it so it can be a success again. If they're not able to do so, then let it dead,because it would die again, and that would be more painful.
I'd think the latest Tomb Raider games are a taste of what we can expect from a modern LoK. Platforming, open world, a few sidequests but focus on spectacle and level design. I'd be really OK with that.
adversarial
Member
Please not a fucking remaster.
NEW SOUL REAVER.
NEW SOUL REAVER.
Mama Robotnik
Member
The thread has summoned me!
Crystal Dynamics talking about Legacy of Kain is certainly a change in behaviour. For the last decade, they seem to have avoided talking about the series as much as possible. A big part of this was probably the development of Legacy of Kain The Dark Prophecy, Legacy of Kain Dead Sun, Nosgoth, and Omen - all developed externally, and all cancelled/rejected. Square Enix, I imagine, would have wanted control of all PR messages regarding the series, thus Crystal's silence. At times it seemed that Crystal Dynamics couldn't even respond to praise about the LOK games on social media.
I do believe though that there is enormous love for the franchise within Crystal Dynamics. In every single game they have released since, they have inserted explicit references to the LOK series. They have been nice little reminders that, no, they have not forgotten about those wonderful games.
In June, Phil Elliot, Director of Community and Indie Development at Square Enix, tweeted the following
Wonder what the interest in the Legacy of Kain IP would be if we made it available to indies to license?
— Phil Elliott (@Sly_Rebirth) June 13, 2017
It was a strange and surprisingly explicit post that suggested they would be interested in partnering up to carry the series forward. Some time after, artwork for Omen was put onto the internet, by developers with links to Denis Dyack, which was certainly an interesting development. One does wonder if Dyack and a team covertly proposed a game to Square Enix.
Still, all this aside, there are three ways to interpret Crystal Dynamic's recent attention to Raziel and the series:
1. Nothing is in development, anywhere, and thus Crystal can talk about the series again.
2. Crystal is developing a new Raziel game of some form, and are delicately reminding their fan base that the series could have a future.
3. It means nothing, all my speculation is void and its literally just a team looking back fondly at old projects.
As another aside, Denis Dyack has done two videos to Deep Dive the original Legacy of Kain.
Crystal Dynamics talking about Legacy of Kain is certainly a change in behaviour. For the last decade, they seem to have avoided talking about the series as much as possible. A big part of this was probably the development of Legacy of Kain The Dark Prophecy, Legacy of Kain Dead Sun, Nosgoth, and Omen - all developed externally, and all cancelled/rejected. Square Enix, I imagine, would have wanted control of all PR messages regarding the series, thus Crystal's silence. At times it seemed that Crystal Dynamics couldn't even respond to praise about the LOK games on social media.
I do believe though that there is enormous love for the franchise within Crystal Dynamics. In every single game they have released since, they have inserted explicit references to the LOK series. They have been nice little reminders that, no, they have not forgotten about those wonderful games.
In June, Phil Elliot, Director of Community and Indie Development at Square Enix, tweeted the following
Wonder what the interest in the Legacy of Kain IP would be if we made it available to indies to license?
— Phil Elliott (@Sly_Rebirth) June 13, 2017
It was a strange and surprisingly explicit post that suggested they would be interested in partnering up to carry the series forward. Some time after, artwork for Omen was put onto the internet, by developers with links to Denis Dyack, which was certainly an interesting development. One does wonder if Dyack and a team covertly proposed a game to Square Enix.
Still, all this aside, there are three ways to interpret Crystal Dynamic's recent attention to Raziel and the series:
1. Nothing is in development, anywhere, and thus Crystal can talk about the series again.
2. Crystal is developing a new Raziel game of some form, and are delicately reminding their fan base that the series could have a future.
3. It means nothing, all my speculation is void and its literally just a team looking back fondly at old projects.
As another aside, Denis Dyack has done two videos to Deep Dive the original Legacy of Kain.
Melchiah
Member
Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 have a similar structure to Soul Reaver, which I was obviously referring to earlier.
Bloodborne had sold 2 million by September 2015. Dark Souls 3 broke sales records, and reached 3 million units in May 2016. RE7 hit 4 million shipped recently, eventhough it didn't meet Capcom's expectations. Nioh is the most succesful game Koei Tecmo has published in the west. Hellblade has sold pretty good as well. Linear games are hardly dead.
Open world comes with a bigger budget, and bigger sales expectations. I very much doubt Legacy of Kain would have such a draw, that it could ever meet them. It was never such a big name to begin with.
If the lukewarm TR approach and its collecthaton is the way it's going, it would be the final nail in its coffin.
Why do people don't like the new Tomb Raider games? They have rock solid gameplay, high production values and great world design.
The story is annoying but what can you do.
LoK made in the same vein, with actual good writing, would be amazing.
And again, realistically speaking, Cristal Dynamics is not gonna suddenly make Bloodborne. They'll make what they know, and that template is the TR Games.
The story is annoying but what can you do.
LoK made in the same vein, with actual good writing, would be amazing.
And again, realistically speaking, Cristal Dynamics is not gonna suddenly make Bloodborne. They'll make what they know, and that template is the TR Games.
Melchiah
Member
I wasn't suggesting they should make it like Bloodborne, but to make a similar intertwined world like BB and Soul Reaver had. More like "metroidvania" than the currently trendy open world.
I actually enjoyed TR reboot, but not so much the sequel. It's not something I'd want the Legacy of Kain series to turn into. It has its own style, and it should continue to be so.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
And that would be absolutely horrible.
The story and world-building is what makes LoK so special, for one thing.
And as for gameplay, nu-Tomb Raider games are abysmal. Rock solid, are you kidding me? It's the most paint-by-numbers AAA checklist shit ever. Brain-dead easy cover-based shooter with carefully placed exploding barrels. QTEs everywhere. Scripted "cinematic" set pieces everywhere. Faux open-world where you can technically backtrack but you have no reason to beyond utterly meaningless collectibles. Oh yeah, collectibles, a map full of them because all Open-World games need that shit or else. Throwaway easy puzzles. "Secret" areas marked with the most insulting "hints" ever. XP bars (gotta have the "Headshot! +25 XP" pop-up notification every time too) and a meaningless "skill tree" because every game needs that now. And weapon upgrades too, of course. And of course the absolutely terrible writing and forgettable characters.
A new Legacy of Kain game like that would be an utter tragedy, even with a decent story. And we have zero reason to believe current CD would give justice to the story and lore and characters. On the contrary.
I want CD to stay as far away from LoK as possible. If somehow they get a really talented team on it that knows what they're doing and make something fresh, not AAA-checklist-shit, etc. then I'll happily eat crow, but as of today, no. fucking. way.
Indeed, and that is exactly the problem.
Aye. More Zelda-like than Metroidvania, really. Blood Omen's gameplay was largely similar to Zelda: A Link to the Past, and Soul Reaver's gameplay was largely similar to the 3D Zeldas.
I'm not on some crusade against western AAA so I don't get the outrage. The TR Games have great gameplay, the controls are responsive, the movement is varied and feels natural, the shooting is really good etc. Add metroidvania elements to it and there you get your Soul Reaver 2018.
And let's be honest here, the LoK series is not known for its gripping gameplay, so much that every game in the series feels completely different from one another.
All we needs is the writing and world building to be up to notch, the rest is salad dressing, as they say.
And let's be honest here, the LoK series is not known for its gripping gameplay, so much that every game in the series feels completely different from one another.
All we needs is the writing and world building to be up to notch, the rest is salad dressing, as they say.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
I would really like new one or remaster. I hope this isn't some sort of Halloween trick
Please don't play with my heart like this.