joe_zazen
Member
How do you "celebrate diversity"? Will it involve music and dancing?
No, just pretend videogame sex. Oh and killing, lots and lots and lots of pretend killing.
How do you "celebrate diversity"? Will it involve music and dancing?
Did EA get invaded the last 5 years? Why are they suddenly doubling down on PC buzzwords instead of money? Trying to make their games political or controversial for the sake of political expediency will crash the company.
I think they're trying to reverse all the bad press they've gotten over the past few years. It comes across too much like an attempt to save their brand image.
I think they're trying to reverse all the bad press they've gotten over the past few years. It comes across too much like an attempt to save their brand image.
EA is about to get woke and go broke, AGAIN! I guess BFV wasn't enough of a disaster. Haha
I think what is going on is that most of the so-called "games journalists" are "leftists". Many games companies, in an effort to help their games review well, have been pandering to these bone heads. You see evidence of this all over the place, praise for games that peddle the whole diversity, inclusion, equality narrative (none of these things are bad, however they have been bastardized to be something more than what is encompassed by the words themselves). Games that fail to pander are called out for not being diverse, inclusive, etc.Did EA get invaded the last 5 years? Why are they suddenly doubling down on PC buzzwords instead of money? Trying to make their games political or controversial for the sake of political expediency will crash the company.
Did EA get invaded the last 5 years? Why are they suddenly doubling down on PC buzzwords instead of money? Trying to make their games political or controversial for the sake of political expediency will crash the company.
Developers/community managers/anyone involved with making big budget games with lots of employees need to have PR talks about how to use social media. Weather they'r right or wrong or anything in between, you're jeopardizing the project by posting anything non-vanilla on social media. Just keep it to yourself or wait a few years until after the games release to give your real world views that everyone on the team may or may not share.
I think what is going on is that most of the so-called "games journalists" are "leftists". Many games companies, in an effort to help their games review well, have been pandering to these bone heads. You see evidence of this all over the place, praise for games that peddle the whole diversity, inclusion, equality narrative (none of these things are bad, however they have been bastardized to be something more than what is encompassed by the words themselves). Games that fail to pander are called out for not being diverse, inclusive, etc.
It really is a stupid cycle. The games journalists don't represent their audience, they are just a bunch of indoctrinated clowns parroting talking points from the latest and greatest woke movement hoping to score some points. I don't mind someone having an opinion, but labeling all other opinions as wrong or invalid is just the height of stupidity.
Hopefully these companies will continue to lose money and remember to treat their actual customers in a more respectful manner, to actually cater to their customers and not some ideologue working at some gaming site.
No, just pretend videogame sex. Oh and killing, lots and lots and lots of pretend killing.
Bingo!Fantasy, science fiction, and super hero stories have ALWAYS had elements of overcoming prejudice, and promoting inclusiveness.
You're not one of those dirty elves are you?
You're not one of those awful magic users, are you?
You're not one of those inhuman replicants, are you?
You're not one of those mutants, are you?
I would imagine we ALL have enjoyed fiction with those elements. From X-Men and Blade Runner to The Witcher and Skyrim, to name just a handful of examples. The issue isn't that. The issue is how awkward, and ham-fisted, and preachy those topics will be when handled by someone who felt the need on their twitter profile to identify as an inter-sectional feminist and leftist, and who seems to have a history of "problematic" tweets.
And can you show the reason for their success is tied to their alleged progressiveness? If not, please insert the words "correlates with" in future similar claims.
What an absurd claim. That in order for one to feel welcome playing games one has to share the most superficial of traits of the protagonist. That would mean men wouldn't be able to play as Lara Croft, women couldn't stand playing Nathan Drake, and neither would ever finish Ori and the Blind Forest.
The inanity of this logic cannot be overstated.
Please show this is how most gamers who are members of said communities feel. Show with numbers, data, that is. Please show that in order to "feel welcome playing " a title, one has to be given "characters and roles" one can "identify with". Also explain why in light of that logic games featuring protagonists no one can possibly identify with are still successful and why games which a certain community allegedly cannot identify with would still be popular with that community.
And please explain why Shakespeare seems to be popular (https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36114485), even though very few would identify with a Danish Prince or Mercutio per se.
I completely agree with this. I feel Horizon Zero Dawn is a great example of diversity done right. They had some great characters of all different races and genders but no big deal was made about it. They were just interesting players in a well told story. The best part; I have no clue what Aloy's sexual orientation is nor do I know anything about her love life and for me that's great because gay or straight I have little interest in side-tracking the main story with this stuff.Celebrating diversity and difference is great when handled with some deftness, nuance.
Steamrolling your agenda all over the thing is tiresome as hell.
I didn't say they were -- please read carefully next time. I'm just saying that diversity is clearly not the drag on sales that he so desperately wants it to be. If done reasonably well, it's at worst not a hindrance and at best a contributing factor to sales.
I didn't say that people couldn't feel welcome playing games that don't directly represent them. Again, please pay closer attention to what I'm actually saying. It's that representation matters to a significant degree. If you're in a minority group and all you ever see in games are white, straight men, how the hell are you going to see your experience reflected in the games you play? You can't ask every woman, every non-white person, every LGBT person to make their own game. At a certain point, the people already making games have to step up and acknowledge that people beyond their own demographic exist and have value.
I know you're playing a disingenuous shell game where you try to get me to prove something you know is difficult to quantify, but here's a decade-old University of Illinois-approved study of both LGBT and straight people showing that about 60% of respondents called for "more" or "much more" inclusion of LGBT people in role-playing games, and 51% in MMORPGs. Figures were lower in other categories mainly because representation doesn't matter much in some genres (you may never even see your character in a racing game). And remember, about 28% percent of respondents in the study were straight, so it's safe to presume the actual demand for inclusion among LGBT people was considerably higher. It's likewise safe to assume that LGBT people haven't stopped wanting themselves represented in games since then.
Besides, it's pretty simple: people don't always need to see themselves reflected in games, but they'd sure appreciate seeing their experiences reflected at some point. Imagine if there were no women superheroes, no Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel or Jean Grey. If you were a woman, would you feel like comics were a welcoming environment in those conditions? No, you wouldn't; you might enjoy some comics, but it'd ultimately look to you like a male circle-jerk (which it still is to some degree, but that's another story). So why do you object to games moving beyond male fantasies to include more of what women and minorities want?
And boy, did you pick the wrong person to ask about why Shakespeare remains popular... I have a Master's in English Literature and write for a living. His work is popular for a number of reasons, and not all of them due to the work itself. Yes, they were inventive and well-written (if also derivative of earlier work), but they're also centuries old stories whose initial popularity ensured they would become archetypes. British colonialism also guaranteed the plays would be widely studied and performed outside of their home country. Moreover, it's no secret that people have given a lot of attention in recent decades to the strength of certain women and minority characters, such as Portia in Merchant of Venice and Othello. Shakespeare definitely wasn't a role model for equality and diversity (see the ending for Taming of the Shrew, or Shylock in Merchant of Venice), but women and minorities can find an appeal in Shakespeare precisely because he occasionally did write in strong people who weren't white men.
Strictly anecdotally, every LGBT person I know wants to see more representation of their culture in games.
Oh? Diversity has definitly affected sales, especially at EA, their stocks have been dropping of a cliff.
Why? Why do you feel entitled to other people's work? Why are developers publicly ostracized for not wanting to make LGBT characters? If they want to make them let them but your (And I don't mean you specifically) attempt to guilt trip people to do what you want is rather obnoxious.
If the actual demand for LGBT characthers is so high why do games that goes out of their way to include them flop?
I'd like you to know what you mean by this "seeing their experiences reflected".
You know why comics, games, etc, are "male circlejerks", because they created them, again, why do you feel entitled for other people to represent you in their work instead of doing your own?
Yeah every game is a "male fantasie", same question as above, if women and minorities want to see what they want represented, why not make it themselves? They could probably do what they want better than forcing someone else to do it.
I very much doubt Shakespeare gave a crap about minorities or women, he wrote about them because he had a good story to tell and decided to do it. Not because of someone telling him he should do it.
I didn't say they were -- please read carefully next time.
I'm just saying that diversity is clearly not the drag on sales that he so desperately wants it to be. If done reasonably well, it's at worst not a hindrance and at best a contributing factor to sales
I didn't say that people couldn't feel welcome playing games that don't directly represent them.
Besides, call me crazy, but I'd like people who aren't white, straight men to feel welcome playing games. That means giving them characters and roles they can identify with. And isn't a fantasy game an ideal venue for that? I'm just baffled at how you can be so hateful.
Again, please pay closer attention to what I'm actually saying.
It's that representation matters to a significant degree.
If you're in a minority group and all you ever see in games are white, straight men, how the hell are you going to see your experience reflected in the games you play
You can't ask every woman, every non-white person, every LGBT person to make their own game. At a certain point, the people already making games have to step up and acknowledge that people beyond their own demographic exist and have value.
Besides, your argument also conveniently sidesteps the presence of important major characters. Uncharted may have a male lead, for example, but many of its most important characters are women: Elena Fisher, Chloe Frazer, Nadine Ross... representation isn't just about who you get to play, it's about having prominent characters with depth and personality. Characters who aren't just part of the scenery or trophies for the men to win.
I know you're playing a disingenuous shell game where you try to get me to prove something you know is difficult to quantify,
but here's a decade-old University of Illinois-approved study of both LGBT and straight people showing that about 60% of respondents called for "more" or "much more" inclusion of LGBT people in role-playing games, and 51% in MMORPGs. Figures were lower in other categories mainly because representation doesn't matter much in some genres (you may never even see your character in a racing game). And remember, about 28% percent of respondents in the study were straight, so it's safe to presume the actual demand for inclusion among LGBT people was considerably higher. It's likewise safe to assume that LGBT people haven't stopped wanting themselves represented in games since then.
46. To what degree would you like to see gay or lesbian content in the following gaming genres?
Strictly anecdotally, every LGBT person I know wants to see more representation of their culture in games.
Besides, it's pretty simple: people don't always need to see themselves reflected in games,
but they'd sure appreciate seeing their experiences reflected at some point. Imagine if there were no women superheroes, no Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel or Jean Grey. If you were a woman, would you feel like comics were a welcoming environment in those conditions?
No, you wouldn't; you might enjoy some comics, but it'd ultimately look to you like a male circle-jerk (which it still is to some degree, but that's another story).
So why do you object to games moving beyond male fantasies to include more of what women and minorities want?
And boy, did you pick the wrong person to ask about why Shakespeare remains popular... I have a Master's in English Literature
Shakespeare definitely wasn't a role model for equality and diversity
(see the ending for Taming of the Shrew, or Shylock in Merchant of Venice), but women and minorities can find an appeal in Shakespeare precisely because he occasionally did write in strong people who weren't white men.
Do they come from a different planet? Funny that they speak the same language as you, went to the same schools, and live in the same place, but you talk about them as if they were a completely different species. You have more in common, than differences.
Ok, Mr. Literature degree, If the only way to understand something is to have someone who looks like you, how is it possible to appreciante literature from ancient times, like The Illiad or The Odyssey? Only ancient Greeks can like that?
So after a time all art becomes inacessible to humans, because, they don't reflect their experiences any longer?
es, I have plenty in common with women and minorities. But there are experiences I will never have and will never fully understand
Yes, I have plenty in common with women and minorities. But there are experiences I will never have and will never fully understand, and I won't pretend that a white straight male's life can adequately convey the broader scope of human experience.
Lots of people in this thread that haven't played any Bioware game in a long time apparently.
This has been their thing since around DA2.
Just look at Inquisition, half the romance options are either bisexual or gay
I'm kind of worried about this. When you look at the Battlefield discussion it was all summarize to:The new Dragon Age (if there even is one) will be judged on how many gay & tranny romances it has.
Weird, I liked them having women in the game but wasn't interested in the final game itself as it turned out so expressed that whenever relevant and don't recall anyone telling me no you're a misogynist.I'm kind of worried about this. When you look at the Battlefield discussion it was all summarize to:
-> I like women in game so the game is good
-> You don't like Battlefield because you are a nazi and you don't like women in game.
I only recently seen much more interesting review as the one from Angry Joe and finally learn that there is much more issues than just historical accuracy in it. But it looks like all those issues were ignore by everyone.
I wish the same won't happen for Dragon Age. Can't they do all there marketing based on gender issues on Anthem instead of Dragon Age.
I mean, it's one thing to want diversity and another to make every character cardboard cutouts that bend to the player's will of being what they want them to be. Your character is meant to be what you want him/her/whatever to be, to the degree possible by games limited by tech and budgets, but the other characters should feel like they're their own persons. I find it meh whenever almost every cast member can be romanced, like, nobody in my party has better things to do than get it on with their captain or whatever (even if some are restricted to hetero or homosexual relationships)? It just feels off. And why not have others show interest first but behave if you friendzone them or hell, leave altogether because they don't want to be friends with you? Bioware was always cringry whether for straight or other types of relationships, I avoided those quest lines whenever possible after seeing how bad they are. But that's me, I know others enjoyed them so yay.for all their talk of "diversity" why couldn't I have my femwarden romance Morrigan? My femshep romance Miranda? Why did we not get any juice lesbian scenes in Mass Effect Andromeda with Suvi?
I played Inquisition years ago, but I remember a scene with a trans character where they literally sit you to listen to a lecture about how "trans people are people just like us" and I was rolling my eyes about how unnatural and preachy that conversation was. There were other "woke moments" as well.
It seems the next one will crank it to 11.
Isn't this... actually a good thing?
The guy is entitled to his political beliefs, and if he has the writing chops to do the job, I'm fine with it.
Pre-judging games based on lead creatives' tweets is Resetera's stock-in-trade. Its not a good look.
Well Gander who wrote DAO left and people like DAO. And he is a homosexual guy. Only the DAO series starting with the first had male homosexual relationships. Mass Effect never did until 3 and was drop from Andromeda only to be patched in later.
Fight bigotry with .... more bigotry.This is like forcefeeding a kid vegetables. The kid is just too dumb to know whats good for him, and i am all for it.
Same would/should apply to a lot of policies even outside of gaming.
"you are a antivaxxer? We gonna take away your benefits"
"you dont believe In climate Change? Here is a extra tax for being a idiot"
Easy.
It doesn’t sound like he wants to make games. Just edutainment propaganda.Agreed. I don't understand why folks can't simply play a game for actually being a game.
Should we accept being insulted, keep our heads down and quietly buy the game then? They are not entitled to our money. If a developer is out there insulting me, I am not going to buy his game.
They better learn how to behave professionally or else I hope every one of their games flop.