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Dark Souls 3 Story and Lore Discussion [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
Iva Demilcol
Member
Can you stop with this already?
Comments like that are not only divisive but they're inaccurate as well: I'm one of the persons that's trying to tie DS2 to DSIII as much as I'm trying to tie it to the original. I've played all the games and started with Dark souls one, which is my favorite game in the series.
This thread is about the lore, about findings that help us understand what's happening in the world of DSIII and how we can tie it to the previous games. You have the right to express you didn't like one of the games but let's not transform this thread into another DSII hate thread. I mean, you can try to ignore it if you want but even in Firelink shrine you have some blatant references to DSII... Even the posts of that reddit user tie DSII events with what's happening in DSIII.
Dunno, for me it's the definitive ending, as opposed to the usual link the flame or not, which always ended in this cycle anyway and didn't change much apart from maybe the speed at which fire / dark transitions happened.
The third ending in DS3 doesn't have you let the flame "die", you absorb it and become the lord of hollows. Of course who knows if some undead ends up rising, killing you and relinking the flame. But I prefer seeing it as a true ending of the cycle and the definite end of the gods / flame.
edit: I have no idea why I said Usurp the Flame. I meant the Lord of Hollows ending.
RandomSeed
Member
Has there been a write up on the effects of linking the first flame in this game? As in, is it another act of repetition that will prolong the age of fire as normal, or if the convergence of time/dimensions (all the player heroes from DkS1&2) will have a greater effect this time? Fighting the Soul of Cinder seemed to have more significance than just fighting Gwyn, for example.
*was posting and missed the above post, heh*
*was posting and missed the above post, heh*
Dragin Halberd looks awesome. Looks like maybe the Two princes boss fight might've been a bit more challenging originally? Shield/scythe etc.
Looks like they didn't even bother design Eygon. He looks "default".
fine
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Yeah so more stuff to support untended graves being the abyss/deep.
Right so facts first:
- irina failed to become a firekeeper
- Irina is haunted by things that nible at her in the dark +Gnaw spell - "These insects which lurk in the Deep have tiny jaws lined with fangs to tear open the skin and burrow into the flesh "
- Deep protection "The deep was originally a peaceful and sacred place, but became the final rest for many abhorrent things.." This sounds like untended graves to me, i think its important to remember the storytellers are also there and these things are strongly connected to PS
- Irina drops the tower key, despite never having been to our firelink shrine + Maiden at untended graves does not have tower key in possession
The only explanation i can think of for why she has the tower key , Irina visited untended graves along time ago (It must be alongtime ago, else how we should get past all the shit in her way?), the fire's already faded since the coiled sword is gone and hence she thinks she failed to become a firekeeper.
Right so facts first:
- irina failed to become a firekeeper
- Irina is haunted by things that nible at her in the dark +Gnaw spell - "These insects which lurk in the Deep have tiny jaws lined with fangs to tear open the skin and burrow into the flesh "
- Deep protection "The deep was originally a peaceful and sacred place, but became the final rest for many abhorrent things.." This sounds like untended graves to me, i think its important to remember the storytellers are also there and these things are strongly connected to PS
- Irina drops the tower key, despite never having been to our firelink shrine + Maiden at untended graves does not have tower key in possession
The only explanation i can think of for why she has the tower key , Irina visited untended graves along time ago (It must be alongtime ago, else how we should get past all the shit in her way?), the fire's already faded since the coiled sword is gone and hence she thinks she failed to become a firekeeper.
Slick Butter
Member
No conclusion drawing, concrete lore-stuff or anything, but it's pretty interesting how the world is "upside down": the valley of the mountain is where all the snow is and the top is uncovered, and even looks warm because of the yellow light.
Also, Anor Londo is practically at the bottom, whereas it was on top in DkS1. And, if the black stuff that spawns out of things really is from the abyss, then that is pretty much only at the top, within the walls of Lothric, as is the Untended Graves.
Also, the unused Demon's Souls Fluted Set (well not quite i guess)!!!
I guess the new Knight armor looks a lot like it though.
Also, Anor Londo is practically at the bottom, whereas it was on top in DkS1. And, if the black stuff that spawns out of things really is from the abyss, then that is pretty much only at the top, within the walls of Lothric, as is the Untended Graves.
Also, the unused Demon's Souls Fluted Set (well not quite i guess)!!!
I guess the new Knight armor looks a lot like it though.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Okay more thoughts on untended graves being the deep
- The corvian crows (Probably originate from painted world, given the crows there already and substantial painted world focused lore ) are in a trail from untended graves to BV
- Grave wardens appear @ untended graves and "Grave wardens were tasked with disposing of the ever rising corpses that plagued the cathedral."
- The corvian crows (Probably originate from painted world, given the crows there already and substantial painted world focused lore ) are in a trail from untended graves to BV
- Grave wardens appear @ untended graves and "Grave wardens were tasked with disposing of the ever rising corpses that plagued the cathedral."
In each Souls game we had that one mysterious area/character that we wanted to know everything about but never did, until the DLC. Artorias, Laurence, Aldia etc
who/what do you guys think we're getting in the upcoming DLCs? The Deep? Courland? Or perhaps something DS2 related?
I'm quite fucking excited to say the last!
regarding the Untended Graves, I kinda hope it's just another Firelink (perhaps related to Artorias in one way or another) and not more than that :/ because I hated it
who/what do you guys think we're getting in the upcoming DLCs? The Deep? Courland? Or perhaps something DS2 related?
I'm quite fucking excited to say the last!
regarding the Untended Graves, I kinda hope it's just another Firelink (perhaps related to Artorias in one way or another) and not more than that :/ because I hated it
tamaster92
Member
The huge lack of lore on ludleth is really weird :/
Maybe we are missing something?
Maybe we are missing something?
Iva Demilcol
Member
Considering the state of his body I thought that Courland himself was the beast that feeds on souls... As if he's consuming the souls we give to him.
Orochinagis
Member
The "new" firekeepers are thrown into the darkness, making them blind and get infused darkness energy to help the chosen undead...the ashen ones to relink the fire.
The tiara itselft is a source darkness powering up the firekeeper until she dies and another takes her place which it was supposed it would be the Miracle trainer
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Regarding firekeepers, there are no firekeepers in untended graves par the dead one with the eyes.
The nito believers got me thinking, if they all represent the lord souls, ludleth is most certainly manus/ furtive pygmy.
The nito believers got me thinking, if they all represent the lord souls, ludleth is most certainly manus/ furtive pygmy.
makes sense!
tamaster92
Member
The fire keeper mentioning him knowing something about her being is interesting too.
Feel like he knows a lot more than he lets on during the game
Feel like he knows a lot more than he lets on during the game
Transposition which is a big no-no. He says so himself. Or it's in the transposing kiln description. Can't remember.
He's not consuming them, he's transposing them. Literally turning them into objects.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Oh shit i forgot about that, that could be really usefull if he is suppose to represent manus/FP..... if this is all related, then that tree is important and if that tree is important then so are the Evangelist they were sent by the cathdreal of the deep to the undead settlement!
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Well he does know about UD Firelink and that the eyes of the firekeeper will reveal a world full of Dark, born of betrayal. That's why he choose to become a Lord of Cinder, he does not want the Age of Dark to come true.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
mmmmmmmm dis lore, Irina's ashes
"Irina was a frail woman. This frailty led to her becoming a saint of Carim, and to her grand treachery.".
I wonder if perhaps from are being cheeky here, like they are with the tower keys. They are actually referring the the irina who is dead at untended graves firelink shrine who's corpse has the eyes.
I suspect a shitload of his story was cut, given that the High Wall was originally called High Wall of Lodeleth.
The ring description makes you wonder whether he had a part in the creation of Aldrich. Or if Aldrich is a Soulfeeder, given his lust for eating dudes/gods
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
I was going to say this. I wonder what the betrayal is...
RAMPANT SPECULATION: I'm always saying From uses words deliberately, targeted. Betrayal, in this game specifically, is what the Firekeeper and Ludleth call not linking the flame. Well, Ludleth uses "treachery" I think, but the Firekeeper calls it the "moment of grand betrayal." What if Irina was indeed a Firekeeper who, like ours, aided someone in not linking the fire? I strongly doubt this myself but I'm just putting it out there.
What I think is that she may have dabbled in Deep miracles. The "little creatures" she goes on about from the moment you meet her are reminiscent of the little creatures described in Gnaw and Dorhys' Gnawing. And if you only give her Deep miracle tomes she loses it and starts to feel like she's constantly being gnawed at and can't feel you anymore when you touch her. It's kind of fucked up.
Also yeah, the Cathedral of the Deep, and the Deep itself, used to be a good place. It was mentioned on this page and the Deep Braille tome also mentions that: "Intended to teach divine protection to the deacons of the deep, but later, dark tales were added to its pages, such that it is now considered a thing profane."
Also I found something mildly interesting on the description of the Deep Infusion gem: "There is a darkness that lies beyond human ken [knowledge]".
I think we can definitely put to rest that the Deep and the Abyss are the same. I mean I was already there. The Abyss was literally born out of Humanity - Manus, Primeval Man.
edit: The Soulfeeder description is interesting because it really sounds just like the player in these games. Always absorbing more souls for power.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Discussion of ludleth has trailed my mind all over to the manus side of thing, i wonder if the CoD needed all those bodys for torture etc, thats how Oolacile made the abyss sorceries.
The weird baby head creatures, the caged men, fucked up spider things and the humanity enemies.
The weird baby head creatures, the caged men, fucked up spider things and the humanity enemies.
tamaster92
Member
Regsrding CoD:
The change from containing it to using it seems to have turned the CoD into something akin to the healing church in bloodborne. The peasants hate them and they have collapsed under their own power and discoveries.
The similarities between the healing church and its blood and CoD and its deep are very striking. Man meddling in powers beyond their own and such
Edit: small crazy idea before I go to bed -
What if the queen of lothric (gwynevere) was another illusion by gwyndolin? She disappears randomly, what if that is because he is being eaten by Aldrich and can no longer carry on the illusion?
It would explain why the King is carrying and invisible baby since it never existed in the first place
Bit of an out there theory though
The change from containing it to using it seems to have turned the CoD into something akin to the healing church in bloodborne. The peasants hate them and they have collapsed under their own power and discoveries.
The similarities between the healing church and its blood and CoD and its deep are very striking. Man meddling in powers beyond their own and such
Edit: small crazy idea before I go to bed -
What if the queen of lothric (gwynevere) was another illusion by gwyndolin? She disappears randomly, what if that is because he is being eaten by Aldrich and can no longer carry on the illusion?
It would explain why the King is carrying and invisible baby since it never existed in the first place
Bit of an out there theory though
I doubt it's as simple as a past / future.
Overall the whole Dark Souls universe is a bit reminiscent of the Dark Tower. Parallel worlds, everything on the brink of destruction...
I think the UG and its firelink is just a parallel universe in which the fire completely died. There's nothing left, the coiled sword is broken, no firekeeper, and the graves are "untended". No more lords of Cinder either.
The handmaid is creepy as fuck. She's the only one left in that desolate sword. She also seems "related" to Emma in some way. Similar dress, and she gives you the priestess ring. Also sits on an chair identical to Emma's.
And her eyes are covered for good measure. Maiden in Black confirmed.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
I wonder if people have tested for interactions between the dusk set and karla
Honestly, those interactions would have probably been found by now. I was waiting on the PC people to dig up any and all secrets for us.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Not sure why dreaming is necessary, fighting old bosses in reused areas would be the least surprising DLC possible.
Related, after fighting that FUGS invader in Catacombs and dying and receiving him a gesture from him, I realized how garbage the DLC will be if it DOESN'T feature a literal meme giantdad invader that gives you Well What Is It? if he kills you.
Orochinagis
Member
RIP mushroom guys
tintin1029
Member
God dammit, I feel disgusting knowing that this is what I want.
i don't
i am totally shameless and i want all the references and garbage
bring on the legend and maldron
So, there must be a connection between Sulyvahn and the Pilgrim butterflies right?
He looks like one of them during his second phase.
To me it definitely looks that way in the Untended Graves area.
He looks like one of them during his second phase.
To me it definitely looks that way in the Untended Graves area.
Riposte
Member
I thought that was either a vision of the future where the fire goes out or just the Abyss.
Slick Butter
Member
Sorry to go back to Aldrich, but I dunno if anyone noticed this. It's unrelated to any of the arguments before.
The Storyteller staff tells of a heretic storyteller who shared tales about the Painted World to "forlorn souls". Could this be why or related Aldrich knew of or saw Priscilla in a dream?
Right now, with only the two descriptions, there's not necessarily a connection, as the Lifehunt Scythe only says he dreamed about "a young pale girl" who we can infer is Priscilla.
With only this info though, there may not be much importance to the Storyteller's Staff.
The Storyteller staff tells of a heretic storyteller who shared tales about the Painted World to "forlorn souls". Could this be why or related Aldrich knew of or saw Priscilla in a dream?
Right now, with only the two descriptions, there's not necessarily a connection, as the Lifehunt Scythe only says he dreamed about "a young pale girl" who we can infer is Priscilla.
With only this info though, there may not be much importance to the Storyteller's Staff.
Well that's just my take on it.
A parallel world where Irina was the last firekeeper, failed/betrayed the fire, and the age of dark finally came.
ItWillGetBetter
Banned
I wish this game was ...more.
Like take every single thing that is in it right now. But fine tune it and add in open areas where it's not just dead nothingness. Like a town full of NPCs or something.
Also I liked the endings. BUt why can't there be a legit end-game? Why is it..End...2 sec cut-scene. Now go play again.
ugh.
Playing the game a second time is a chore also. I've already seen everything and killed everyone basically.
This series needs to evolve badly.
Like take every single thing that is in it right now. But fine tune it and add in open areas where it's not just dead nothingness. Like a town full of NPCs or something.
Also I liked the endings. BUt why can't there be a legit end-game? Why is it..End...2 sec cut-scene. Now go play again.
ugh.
Playing the game a second time is a chore also. I've already seen everything and killed everyone basically.
This series needs to evolve badly.
Thought I recognized them, yes pls.
http://darksouls.wikidot.com/dark-silver-tracer
http://darksouls.wikidot.com/gold-tracer