Yeah this is a case of me filtering out Shin's outlandish claims and trying to reason out what he is trying to say. I disagree with shin and agree with pretty much everyone else on the the bolded's claim.
Ok, cool. We'll set this bit aside then.
You are right and I should have explained what I meant better. I didn't mean fighting games themselves weren't for you, more so that "games as a service" is the model most fighters are going to take going forward and from everything you have said, you don't seem to like that. I won't get into SFV because I do enjoy playing it, and it is currently my most played fighter, but I fucking hate their business model for the game and I could spend all day complaining about it.
Yeah I'm not sure where to go with this so hopefully it doesn't come off as a complete ramble. The people creating the DLC aren't going to be the people who are creating to base/meat and bones of DoA6, and if DoA6 gets announced at TGS (or sometime this year) I don't think it is fair to say that DLC is a priority over a new game. Not that I think it is fair to say the DLC has taken priority anyway. I have no idea what their internal teams look like and how many people they had to put on Nioh and how many of those were taken/borrowed from the DoA team.
Games-as-a-service is something I'm generally rather supportive of, and often for the same reasons you allude to with a potential DOA6 (not splintering the userbase in regards to additional content that affects actual gameplay). I definitely prefer the DLC/patch/season model of most current fighters to the Super/Ultimate/Revelator/Continuum Shift model that was previously the norm. I just think it shouldn't result in the stagnation of releases in the way that DOA5's seems to have. I'm aware that the same people don't work on cosmetic DLC as would be creating new gameplay systems or engine updates for a new game (they
would overlap with the asset creation for that game in most cases however). I do think "too much DLC" is a possibility however, as it does start to reposition the brand. The IP starts to be viewed as "that doll dressup" game, as much as it is a fighter, and that then begins to reinforce itself due to the audience it then leaves itself with. A DOA6 that followed DOA5 would likely be notably different from a DOA6 that'll follow DOA5LR. Hell, a DOAX3 that followed DOA5LR already has notable differences in mentality, as I'll go into more detail below.
I'm not going to sit here and defend the PC version, because I think the way they handled it was shit. Whether intentionally or just another shit KT PC port I don't know. DLC checking sucks too and happens on the PS4, no defense there. DoAX3 is kind of funny because I thought they'd milk that harder and to be honest I don't even see the point of buying the tickets or whatever. Everything could be easily gotten in the game already. But overall yeah, DoAX3 was a letdown on many fronts, though I don't regret my purchase.
With all that said, I still am not seeing how you get to the bolded. There are 2 options, either they make a DoA6 or they don't. If they don't, then yeah, all these costumes are just to milk the franchise until there is nothing left; literally. If they do make a DoA6, I just can't wrap my head around thinking that they are making more money selling the current DLC than they would if they just released DoA6 and sold the DLC all over again. And if they do make a DoA6, I'm going to go ahead and assume that this DLC is partly funding the game.
The bolded admittedly applies more to DOAX3, as DOA5 was already released as a solid product prior to Team Ninja's apparent shift in focus. But it does show how optional content can very much be at the expense of the core product. Can everything
really be realistically (let alone
easily gotten in the game without the tickets?
- Why do you think there's now a 1.5m cap on credits?
- Why does the owner mode exist, which prevents you unlocking most things via standard gameplay?
- Why are the additional outfits rotated out every few weeks?
- Why can't you get the Clam suit today?
Each of these points are tied directly to the DLC ticket model, and combine to make a poor game.
The reason you're surprised that they didn't milk the tickets harder is simply
because they tried, and actually managed to cross the line where the fans got up in arms about it. The first set of DLC outfits contained the Clam
which could only be obtained with tickets... and the amount of tickets that would be required would to complete the set of this singular DLC outfit would have been over $500!!! The only reason this wasn't the case with each succeeding set was because the anger was loud enough to discourage it.
Suits are rotated for the same reason event skins in Overwatch have limited availability. By making them available for a window of time too short for most to simply unlock them through gameplay, you encourage people to purchase the tickets that guarantee them. This ties into the owner mode, which is a new way to ensure the player remains poor, even if they play a lot of volleyball, and the 1.5m credit cap that prevents money from piling up during standard gameplay, or being used to bet safely at the casino. Without resorting to actually cheating via circumventing the game's save mechanics, unlocking stuff in DOAX3 is very close to being actually impossible. And it's not by accident. And even when abusing the system, it's left the progress and gameplay completely detached, as simply quitting your way through each vacation for owner cash makes more sense than playing as any of the characters, because they can't actually buy most items.
Again, this comes down to how the "optional" content is handled. In the previous games it was handled in a way that didn't detract from the game itself in a significant manner, much like how something like quest mode or versus for unlocking cosmetics in Virtua Fighter doesn't. In DOAX3 though the monetisation model has
very clearly been made a priority over delivering a solid game, and I'd be very surprised if anyone were able to make a solid case otherwise. It permeates every aspect of the game, right up to the character vote requiring the purchase of themes.
This is kind of more of what I went over earlier, but yeah I am not buying it. I mean I can't control your feelings, but I don't understand what you think these costumes are taking away. Or I guess like I said before, I can't wrap my head around you thinking they are purposely prioritizing this DLC instead of releasing a new game. Specially when doing both at the same time makes the most sense if there is ever going to be a new game.
Comparing DoA5 to past games is a tough ask. It is a different time, for all fighting games. I'll get more into that down below.
Tekken, specifically Tekken 7 is a bit of a unique player. It spent so much time in the arcades where it made a lot of its money before ever coming out on consoles. The console release was more of a "send off" to Tekken 7 than it was the start of a new Tekken gen. Tekken 7 does have a lot of unlockables, so did DoA5, Tekken 7's season pass thing looks laughable (to me at least). Whether it is true or not I don't know but I remember Harada saying they needed the season pass to keep the team together otherwise it was release the game and then split the team off into what I can only assume is different games. I've bought Tekken 7, but unless thing change I won't be touching the season pass.
VF4 came out 16ish years ago and 5 came out 12ish years ago. If I am being honest I never even played 4 so I can't really speak to it and I barely remember my time with 5. That being said, if 6 was released today, expect it to have some kind of DLC model just like every other big fighter released today.
Like I said before, I am not going to defend SFV's business model at all. It seems they had some kind of f2p hybrid model in their mind and just couldn't get it to work, so we are left with the current shit. SFV is using its DLC for survival though (and it should). SFV has a chance to turn the game into a long term success for the company.
Through all of that, I still don't see how DoA releasing a ton of costumes is a bad thing or is problematic where every other game isn't just because they release less cosmetic DLC. I don't think they need to keep releasing DLC packs for their survival.
I mean... look at the example you just gave in Tekken. You're saying that Tekken doesn't need to have an endless stream of cheaply farmed out DLC, because it makes it money in the arcades first and foremost. How would you suggest that this wouldn't be the case for Virtua Fighter also? Virtua Fighter has been so arcade focused, that previous complaints have often been that revisions like VF4 Final Tuned, VF5R and for the longest time VF5 Final Showdown
never even bothered to leave the arcade. Tekken's model isn't unique, it's the standard model basically every fighter in existence followed previously. It was a shock to find out SFV was going to release without an initial arcade release, because even as recently as Street Fighter IV, the series would sit making money in the arcades for a substantial window or time prior to releasing on home consoles (with the home release of SFIV basically being a v2 release like Tekken 7).. and after SFV's performance, I wouldn't be surprised to see it return to that with the next entry.
