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Details on Joy-Con controllers/Pro Controller for Nintendo Switch

i think SappiCine and TheMoon have an interesting debate here to consider:
rL6mhIk.png

That's such a bad setup, it's sad that some people will find that acceptable. The screen is not big enough for split multiplayer. Bad for single player too, with these games designed primarily to be played on a bigger screen.
Why do you think Off-TV was such a hit with many players. Probably not because they all loved eye-strain.

Years ago, i remember in more than 1 occasion explaining the design reasons why Nintendo opted to use a 6.2'' screen for the Wii U, when people suggested different screen sizes could accomplish the same Gamepad functionality, for example:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=155911603
Besides offscreen play all of the gamepad features could of been included in a pro controller with a small touch screen. Use a DS hardware variant and you could still get 30 hours of use per charge.

refreshment.01 said:
i already explained this, if Nintendo was set to include a screen in the controller then might as well include one that open many possibilities. Including a small touch screen will have made people complain about the things that it can't do.

And no, besides off screen you also have local assymetrical multiplayer which was/is a big deal for Nintendo. Probably the off screen play is a by product of the assymetrical gameplay functionality. There's also the ideas Nintendo had in mind where the Gamepad works as terminal for "mid range" use, you can see some examples of that in Wii Party and Wii Fit U.
Many of the features for local multiplayer of the Wii U have been absorbed and expanded with the Switch.

What Sappicine and Themoon are debating is very easy for people to try for themselves right now to sample a taste of Switch functionality.
  • In a few occaccions when some people weren't interested in what the group was watching on the TV, setting up the Gamepad in the coffe table allowed some local multiplay while the TV was in use. 2 players playing Tropical Freeze each with a Wii Remote in hand NES style.
  • To sample the deached Joycons functionality while using the Switch screen, use the Wii U in Wii Mode and play a Nunchuck/Remote compatible game like Galaxy, Metroid or Zelda.
  • These experiences were functional enough at a comfortable 3 feet range from the Gamepad's 6.2'' screen, which is a size shared with the Switch one.
The interesting part is that this type of Wii U setup was a very important part of the Switch unveiling, although in an evolved form: On the go play.

Now if anyone has the means and time to try (or have tried) the above scenarios with the Wii U. Do you think that this way to play in it's evolved form and with better marketing can be a worthwhile feature for the Switch? Or a more accepted one this time around

i mean Nintendo got to the point of compromise ergonomics to some extent to have that on the go 2 player local with splitted Joycons.
 
Now if anyone has the means and time to try (or have tried) the above scenarios with the Wii U. Do you think that this way to play in it's evolved form and with better marketing can be a worthwhile feature for the Switch? Or a more accepted one this time around

i mean Nintendo got to the point of compromise ergonomics to some extent to have that on the go 2 player local with split Joycons.

I can most certainly report in as having tried both of the scenarios you listed. On the Wii-U it was a viable solution for multiplayer, though extremely clunky due to the apparatus needed. I think this is an extremely worthwhile feature for the Switch due to the following:

- The Switch console gives you an easy and secure place to store the controllers when not in use.
- The 6 inch, HD screen hits the perfect sweet spot with size and image quality. Any bigger might be a bit too awkward for portability.
- Multiplayer gaming via the same console eliminates the limitations of the 3DS, wherein multiple systems or copies of a game are needed.

I will absolutely play multiplayer games on the Switch whenever I go to visit family.

As for single-player games, I can easily see myself playing in the controller-detached configuration. I constantly play my Wii-U while upstairs in the bedroom but find that it's awkward to lay down and hold the Gamepad. Being able to prop the screen somewhere whilst holding the controllers in a more natural position seems like a dream come true.
 

Pittree

Member
I posted this image on the reveal thread and I was suggested to post it here too. So here it is:

As usual I haven't got the time to discuss NS properly. But I was just reading some of the posts about the bumpers and decided to make a quick image to show you some of the things I have noticed about the subject:

Please feel free to comment. I, as others, have noticed some other small things like what it seems the nvidia logo and some other things I hope to be able to add to those discussions soon.
 

Somnid

Member
I posted this image on the reveal thread and I was suggested to post it here too. So here it is:

I don't think so, I think it's more the lighting contrast and highlights make it look rounder than it is. Just conceptually that would be way too awkward.
 

Pittree

Member
I don't think so, I think it's more the lighting contrast and highlights make it look rounder than it is. Just conceptually that would be way too awkward.

If you compare the height of the black part in the left image with the one shown in the right there is no way that controllers are the same without any attachments. And that is without taking into account the clearly visible wider L and R buttons and shapes. I understand that having extra pieces of plastics could be considered awkward for some. But I think of these things in the same way as the car mounting accessory or even the zapper shown in the first trailer for the Wii U. They are just proof of concepts and they man never hit stores.

In any case these images should be taken as some evidence of the existence of bumper buttons on the joy cons.
 
This is of interest here. From the "IR Sensor in the botton of the Right Joycon" topic:

untitledzwszn.png


It clearly shows what seems to be the IR filter window in the R Joycon, not visible in the L Joycon. It also shows a lot of the bottom of the unit, which is something that many wanted to see.

I posted this image on the reveal thread and I was suggested to post it here too. So here it is:
Have you seen what i talked about earlier in the thread, it involves the 2 ladies playing outside in the Mario sequence but at a different moment:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=220930624

Like i pointed out, besides one of the guys playing Mario Kart in the Van hitting the top right part of the controller with the index finger, at 2:32 - 2:33 in the video i think there's visual proof of the L Shoulder.

It's a money shot of the square part that you see in the picture you provided, is almost crystal clear. If you guys can't take the screen cap right now, i' ll try to do it tomorrow if i can access a machine.

Also that's a super high resolution image, highest i' ve seen where did you get it? The engraving used to label buttons is quite apparent, it seems very very close to be something real.

Things are getting interesting again, a job well done to all the ones involved.

EDIT: BugyLoop provided a GIF with the exact scene i meant at 2:32... would be nice to have a capture of the square parts (L & R) from the unveil trailer.
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
rL6mhIk.png


This is true comedy. Whatever time they spent solving for this possibility to play with a single joy-con was not worth it.

Lol, I love how the black guy is holding it so daintily.

"Don't break it, Don't break it, Don't break it, Don't break it, Don't break it, Don't break it,"
 

Nerrel

Member
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like all Nintendo has to do to make this thing usable for shooters is put one more trigger just under the IR camera. Trying to use the face buttons on that thing is going to suck. Failing that, they should have an alternate joycon that has the IR camera on top with a comfortable button layout tailored for wiimote+nunchuk style.

This will never happen, of course, but damn is it ever close to the ideal Wii remote revision I always wanted. Fully wireless, dual analogs, and a full button layout.
 

Pittree

Member
For those interested on the bottom port, it looks like it could be a c-type usb with a couple of holes in each side for correct alignment. The white part on the left looks like it is just a flat sticker

 

ramparter

Banned
Now if anyone has the means and time to try (or have tried) the above scenarios with the Wii U. Do you think that this way to play in it's evolved form and with better marketing can be a worthwhile feature for the Switch? Or a more accepted one this time around
I don't about the scenarios you listed but I played all my Wii U games on gamepad unless it wasn't possible. Even Wind Waker HD. And the most disappointing part was that I had to be on the same room with the console. The other disappointing part was how big deal the grip was, playing on Wii U gamepad and then going back to 3DS wash a major step backwards. Playing on Gamepad is how hanheld gaming should feel. I know that Switch wont feel exactly the same and has some compromises in ergonomics but I still expect it to be way more closer to Wii U than 3DS.
 

Peterthumpa

Member
I posted this image on the reveal thread and I was suggested to post it here too. So here it is:

I mean, was there any doubt of the existence of shoulder buttons in the joy cons? You can clearly see the basketball dude pressing the L shoulder at 1:58 - 1:59.

Vm58Qv.gif


Now, about the so called attachment, you're definitely into something. There's no way that this:

GZYP98.gif


is the same thing as this:

LgYXPA.gif
 

BDGAME

Member
Wow!
This thread delivers!

IR, Android like input to charge, shoulder buttons on single Joycon. You guys found every little secret in this video.
 

deadfolk

Member
I really hope there's no IR.

There's literally nowhere I could place this in my setup where the dock will have a clear line of sight to the controllers.

Selfish, I know. :p
 

Davey Cakes

Member
IR is fun. One time I used a lit fireplace to play Art of Balance because I was getting less interference from that than when trying to use the sensor bar.
 
I can most certainly report in as having tried both of the scenarios you listed. On the Wii-U it was a viable solution for multiplayer, though extremely clunky due to the apparatus needed. I think this is an extremely worthwhile feature for the Switch due to the following:

- The Switch console gives you an easy and secure place to store the controllers when not in use.
- The 6 inch, HD screen hits the perfect sweet spot with size and image quality. Any bigger might be a bit too awkward for portability.
- Multiplayer gaming via the same console eliminates the limitations of the 3DS, wherein multiple systems or copies of a game are needed.

I will absolutely play multiplayer games on the Switch whenever I go to visit family.
Thanks for your contribution.

In regards to playing with the Switch screen with the controllers detached, an advantage it has over the Wii U is that even thought the screens are of equal size the Switch has a vast advantage (if rumors are true) in resolution 1280* 720 over the Wii Us 854*480 . Since we are talking about 6.2'' screens here, it's 236ppi to 158ppi difference. That's over 149% increase in ppi. So the visuals will be more clear at equal viewing distances.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like all Nintendo has to do to make this thing usable for shooters is put one more trigger just under the IR camera. Trying to use the face buttons on that thing is going to suck. Failing that, they should have an alternate joycon that has the IR camera on top with a comfortable button layout tailored for wiimote+nunchuk style.
In other posts i've talked about how the inclusion of the hidden Shoulder Buttons would benefit this atypical IR Sensor setup Nintendo has adapted. Here's an ilustration, the Wii Remote is used for ilustration since we don't have a good shop of the Right Joycon at that angle:
  • Holding Position 1. Joycon turned with IR sensor towards the screen (Switch LEDs more exactly) and face buttons up. The palyer shifts the hand grip backwards so the thumb has an easier time reaching the face buttons, also the thumb can hit the lateral hidden Shoulder.
  • Holding Position 2. Joycon turned with IR sensor towards the screen (Switch LEDs more exactly). Then twisted with the lateral side of the Joycon (and hidden shoulders) facing up. Giving how thin the Joycon is, the postion is comfortable i assume, the thumb can hit the hidden Shoulder and the middle/ring fingers can hit some of the face buttons. This is a way to simulate two fingers touching the screen and might replicate "trigger like functionality". Of course if it's ergonomically viable. No way to know until one holds the controller.
I don't about the scenarios you listed but I played all my Wii U games on gamepad unless it wasn't possible. Even Wind Waker HD. And the most disappointing part was that I had to be on the same room with the console. The other disappointing part was how big deal the grip was, playing on Wii U gamepad and then going back to 3DS wash a major step backwards. Playing on Gamepad is how hanheld gaming should feel. I know that Switch wont feel exactly the same and has some compromises in ergonomics but I still expect it to be way more closer to Wii U than 3DS.
Absolutely, the reverse Wii U description for the Switch is an apt one. i don't think anyone has much doubts about playing the Switch like a traditional Handheld. We were talking about how functional the detached play with the Switch screen might be, using as base a similar experience with the Wii U.
 

butman

Member
I'd be surprised if nobody else has done this, but I haven't seen it so: visual comparison of sideways wiimote and joy-con at what should be near accurate scale going by Ars Technica's Switch calculations. I tried to put things at 100 pixels/inch, but I'm sure things aren't totally perfect. Like I'm not sure if Ars's length measurement is for the main body plastic or includes the slight extra of the shoulder button. Buuuut pretty close.
hoF7pEC.jpg

X-ray vision

EWVWSCU.jpg
 
A small transition GIF:

The Joycons seem to be close to the estimates i had in the speculation threads previous to the unveiling.

Rough measurements main body:
  • Width ~ 242 mm (with Joycons)
  • Height ~ 102 mm (applies to Joycons)
  • Depth/Thickness ~ 14/17 mm (main body). (Joycon thicker trigger side 20/21mm)
In terms of depth the reason to specify the main body is because it seems the detachable controllers are a bit thicker near the edge of trigger side. Joycons also have a slight ergonomic contour (incline) in this thicker side.


Oficial specs: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/hardware/switch/specs/index.html#1

Vertical 102 mm × width 239 mm × thickness 13.9 mm (when Joy-Con is installed ※)
※ The maximum thickness from the tip of the analog stick to the ZL / ZR protrusion is 28.4 mm

Approximately 297 g?
(When installing Joy-Con: about 398 g)


Screen capacitive touch screen / 6.2 inch liquid crystal / 1280 x 720 pixels
CPU / GPU NVIDIA customized Tegra processor


Wireless LAN (IEEE 802.11 a / b / g / n / ac compliant) / Bluetooth 4.1
(Wired LAN connection is also possible using a commercially available wired LAN adapter only in TV mode)

Up to 1920 × 1080 pixels 60 fps
* Output via HDMI cable in TV mode
In table mode · portable mode it will be up to 1280 × 720 pixels according to screen resolution.

stereo
Button power button / volume button
USB terminal USB Type-C ™ terminal
Used to charge the main unit and connect to the Nintendo Switch dock

Nintendo Switch software game card only
MicroSD
Card slot microSD / microSDHC / microSDXC memory card compatible
※ To use the microSDXC memory card, you need to connect to the Internet and update the main unit.
Sensor Acceleration sensor / gyro sensor / brightness sensor
Operating environment temperature: 5 to 35 ° C / humidity: 20 to 80%
Built-in battery Lithium-ion battery / battery capacity 4310 mAh
※ The internal battery can not be removed. If it is necessary to exchange it, we will exchange it for a fee at Nintendo service center (online repair reception).
battery
Duration about 2.5 - 6.5 hours
Duration varies depending on the playing software. For example, "Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild" is about 3 hours.
※ It's time for a guide. Depending on usage, it may be shorter.

Edit: Blargh!...Should' ve made a new post .
 
With the January event past and plentiful of video hands on impressions as reference, we finally have views of the Joycon from multiple angles, the railing portion was a part of the design that i was always curious about.

The physical contacts are practically invisible. Just look a the left/right sides of the mounting area in the Switch unit and the railing part of the Joycon for any exposed metal contacts and nothing is apparent. So this tiny metal filaments are safe from the user's hands at the least, only time and extensive use will tell us how much dust and moisture will affect durability.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Joycon Straps. Something interesting regarding this accesory and the effect it has on Joycon when held in Split Design or as Free Degrees of Freedom controller.

When the straps are attached a Joycon basically gets 2 extra "Grip" buttons as shown in 1.2 Switch cow milking mini game. So when using the Joycon in Split Mode games can take advanatge of SL and SR for gripping gestures.

Here's an input comparison of Straped Joycon in Split Mode with other controllers:
  • The 2 Strapped Joycon have a total of 20 action inputs and 4 "Mode Buttons".
  • A DS4 controller has 16 "Action Inputs" and 3 "Mode Buttons".
  • A standard X1 controller has 16 "Action Inputs" and 3 "Mode Buttons".
Is worth noticing that DS4 and X1 have the advantage of analog triggers. The DS4 also features IMU's, but the motion sensing capability is more limited in dual handed controllers . On the other hand, each Joycon have IMUs that can perceive 6 degrees of freedom relative motion for each hand of the user.

Is not just the detachable capabilty of the Joycon that make them so special but also the decision took by Nintendo to enhance modularity even more than with the Wii Remote.
 
Haven't seen the Official specs posted. The height and thickness estimates made in this thread were pretty close so the GIF posted is rather accurate, was off by 3 mm with width thought. Using the headphone jack to estimate thickness worked, i had to use a margin because couldn't get a non angled shot from the October trailer. Anyway:

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/hardware/switch/specs/index.html#1
  • Dimensions: Vertical 102 mm × width 239 mm × thickness 13.9 mm (when Joy-Con is installed ※) ※ The maximum thickness from the tip of the analog stick to the ZL / ZR protrusion is 28.4 mm
    *Authors Note: Estimates were Width ~ 242 mm x Height ~ 102 mm (applies to Joycons) x Depth/Thickness ~ 14/17 mm (main body). (Joycon thicker trigger side 20/21mm)
  • Weight: Approximately 297 g? (When installing Joy-Con: about 398 g)
  • Screen: capacitive touch screen / 6.2 inch liquid crystal / 1280 x 720 pixels
    CPU / GPU NVIDIA customized Tegra processor
  • Communication: Wireless LAN (IEEE 802.11 a / b / g / n / ac compliant) / Bluetooth 4.1 (Wired LAN connection is also possible using a commercially available wired LAN adapter only in TV mode)
  • Resolution: Up to 1920 × 1080 pixels 60 fps * Output via HDMI cable in TV mode
    In table mode · portable mode it will be up to 1280 × 720 pixels according to screen resolution.
  • stereo
  • Buttons: Button power button / volume button
  • Connection: USB terminal USB Type-C ™ terminal Used to charge the main unit and connect to the Nintendo Switch dock
  • Media: Nintendo Switch software game card only
  • Storage: MicroSD Card slot microSD / microSDHC / microSDXC memory card compatible ※ To use the microSDXC memory card, you need to connect to the Internet and update the main unit.
  • Sensors: Sensor Acceleration sensor / gyro sensor / brightness sensor
    Operating environment temperature: 5 to 35 ° C / humidity: 20 to 80%
  • Battery: Built-in battery Lithium-ion battery / battery capacity 4310 mAh
    ※ The internal battery can not be removed. If it is necessary to exchange it, we will exchange it for a fee at Nintendo service center (online repair reception).
  • Battery Autonomy: Duration about 2.5 - 6.5 hours. Duration varies depending on the playing software. For example, "Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild" is about 3 hours.
Is great to have actual confirmation of the actual unit having IMU's as well as Ethernet working out of the box in docked mode.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
I 3D printed one just to get an idea of how it would feel. Its not bad, but playing a game with them separated will be hell, thats just not comfortable from what model I got. Other than that its going to be super solid as far as I can tell.
 
Haven't seen the Official specs posted. The height and thickness estimates made in this thread were pretty close so the GIF posted is rather accurate, was off by 3 mm with width thought. Using the headphone jack to estimate thickness worked, i had to use a margin because couldn't get a non angled shot from the October trailer. Anyway:

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/hardware/switch/specs/index.html#1
  • Dimensions: Vertical 102 mm × width 239 mm × thickness 13.9 mm (when Joy-Con is installed ※) ※ The maximum thickness from the tip of the analog stick to the ZL / ZR protrusion is 28.4 mm
    *Authors Note: Estimates were Width ~ 242 mm x Height ~ 102 mm (applies to Joycons) x Depth/Thickness ~ 14/17 mm (main body). (Joycon thicker trigger side 20/21mm)
  • Weight: Approximately 297 g? (When installing Joy-Con: about 398 g)
  • Screen: capacitive touch screen / 6.2 inch liquid crystal / 1280 x 720 pixels
    CPU / GPU NVIDIA customized Tegra processor
  • Communication: Wireless LAN (IEEE 802.11 a / b / g / n / ac compliant) / Bluetooth 4.1 (Wired LAN connection is also possible using a commercially available wired LAN adapter only in TV mode)
  • Resolution: Up to 1920 × 1080 pixels 60 fps * Output via HDMI cable in TV mode
    In table mode · portable mode it will be up to 1280 × 720 pixels according to screen resolution.
  • stereo
  • Buttons: Button power button / volume button
  • Connection: USB terminal USB Type-C ™ terminal Used to charge the main unit and connect to the Nintendo Switch dock
  • Media: Nintendo Switch software game card only
  • Storage: MicroSD Card slot microSD / microSDHC / microSDXC memory card compatible ※ To use the microSDXC memory card, you need to connect to the Internet and update the main unit.
  • Sensors: Sensor Acceleration sensor / gyro sensor / brightness sensor
    Operating environment temperature: 5 to 35 ° C / humidity: 20 to 80%
  • Battery: Built-in battery Lithium-ion battery / battery capacity 4310 mAh
    ※ The internal battery can not be removed. If it is necessary to exchange it, we will exchange it for a fee at Nintendo service center (online repair reception).
  • Battery Autonomy: Duration about 2.5 - 6.5 hours. Duration varies depending on the playing software. For example, "Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild" is about 3 hours.
Is great to have actual confirmation of the actual unit having IMU's as well as Ethernet working out of the box in docked mode.

Interesting that it needs a software update to use SDXC, its not like SDXC is a particularly new thing
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Interesting that it needs a software update to use SDXC, its not like SDXC is a particularly new thing

If you want to be fully SDXC compliant, you need different filesystem drivers than for other cards (I really don't like the filesystem that was chosen, but that's a separate issue). I'd guess implementing the exFAT drivers was just running a bit late.
 
I 3D printed one just to get an idea of how it would feel. Its not bad, but playing a game with them separated will be hell, thats just not comfortable from what model I got. Other than that its going to be super solid as far as I can tell.
How did your measurements fair? i don't understand how i was 2mm off with the width when height and thickness were correct, thickness was the harder one to estimate from the video from my point of view. Surely was the capture i took from the trailer that was a bit distorted in width. That aside im pleased XD

Some months before the October 2016 trailer i did an estimation of the likely size of the Joycons:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=215875476

refreshment.01 said:
The lenght of the detachable controllers is something i touched upon several times. About 4'' give or take seems like a good compromise, not too short as to affect comfort and not too long as to make the device bulky. The recent rumors about the 6.2'' screen size strenghtens that belief because it would mean the upper and lower bezel of the device wouldn't be too wide with a controller lenght of such size.

Since i knew asuming an almost bezel less device (which would not happen for obvious engineering reasons) the shorter they could go would' ve been 3.66 of height. Also the estimated width of 1.5 '' in that post, back in that time was on the mark.

Another really interesting figure of the Switch is the weight. 297 or 398 grams Joycon attached is substantially less than the 491 of the Gamepad. Altough to be fair even if the Gamepad doesn't have processing innards like the Switch it did have a ton more stuff inside.

The other interesting detail to compare between the 2 is that even with screens of the same size theres a 237 vs158 ppi difference in favor of Switch screen. So much more clarity at tabletop operating distance and the Wii U Gamepad works rather well at ~ 3' feet away from the user.
 

maxcriden

Member
31902436000_563e2d68b3_z.jpg


Joy-Con home button lights up for notifications.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...ome_button_will_light_up_when_a_notification/

I 3D printed one just to get an idea of how it would feel. Its not bad, but playing a game with them separated will be hell, thats just not comfortable from what model I got. Other than that its going to be super solid as far as I can tell.

I'm surprised to read that. It's significantly different than Wiimote + Nunchuk? I was hoping it was similar. :(
 
One should remember that there's difference in a quick 3D-print and a carefully designed real version...

Many of the people that have tried the real thing have really liked it, I think it all comes to taste (like always with controllers).
 
So the Joy-Con have to be using some form of wireless charging, right? Because I don't see any metal contacts on the rails.

If you look at post 729 in this thread i was talking in relation to this. There are indeed physical contacts, when the Joycon is attached to the main unit it turns off the Bluetooth wireless signal and relays on the "metal pins" to handle communication and charging. This helps with energy conservation significantly.

In that post i was remarking how clever it is that Nintendo engineers hid so well those pins to protect them.

The connector might be in the rails.

http://i.imgur.com/0FPwZN5.png
0FPwZN5.png


My guess is that in the Joycon, the connectors are hidden beneath that flat rectangular surface part with the downwards arrows, the surface near the SR (L Joycon) and SL (R Joycon) respectively. It forms a sort of lip in which the connectors are contained below.

Now in the Switch itself:

https://s24.postimg.org/h33bk0ar9/Nintendo_Switch_Nintendo.png
Nintendo_Switch_Nintendo.png


The connection most be in the bottom parts of the railing away from dirty fingers, since clearly there's some space in there. The lip in the flat rectangular surface of the Joycons docks in there.
 
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