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"Did Batman Kill The Joker At The End Of The Killing Joke?"
- Thread starter Dalek
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"SUPPLIES"
Schweinehund
Member
I don't think so, iirc Gordon asked him specifically not to.
It's possible considering it wasn't originally meant for canon. Can't remember if Moore said anything about it.
It's possible considering it wasn't originally meant for canon. Can't remember if Moore said anything about it.
Pinko Marx
Banned
I definitely read it as Batman killing The Joker.
The bridge of the light between the two, the light the symbolizes their stark difference, goes away as Batman finally gets his hands dirty.
The bridge of the light between the two, the light the symbolizes their stark difference, goes away as Batman finally gets his hands dirty.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
He doesn't kill Joker. He just chokes him with rubber hands.
Pandira's box turned Supes into a chump. Gordon would've turned it into a bong, then spent the night in jail for harbouring drug paraphernalia.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I'd like to think he went "Huh. Guess I don't have to worry about him anymore. Welp, back to work."
Skellig Gra
Member
I'm sorry but what about this is so obviously ambiguous?
I feel like this is a trick question.
Pinko Marx
Banned
"See, there were these two guys in a lunatic asylum...and one night, one night they decide they don't like living in an asylum any more. They decide they're going to escape! So, like, they get up onto the roof and there, just across this narrow gap, they see the rooftops of the town, stretching away in the moonlight...stretching away to freedom. Now, the first guy, he jumps right across with no problem. But his friend, his friend daren't make the leap. Y'see...y'see, he's afraid of falling. So then, the first guy has an idea...He says 'Hey! I have my flashlight with me! I'll shine it across the gap between the buildings. You can walk along the beam and join me!' B-but the second guy just shakes his head. He suh-says... he says 'What do you think I am? Crazy? You'd turn it off when I was half way across!'"
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I think Joker kills Batman, clearly. I don't get what is ambiguous about that at all.
Delta Assault
Member
No. This is just something people made up, like that theory about Cameron in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
Skellig Gra
Member
Bo Knows GAF
Member
When I read it the first time I figured he killed him within the comic's storyline but was alive in the Batman Universe.
When I listened to the audio reading of it I heard it as his being arrested and driven away because the laughter sort of faded away.
When I played Arkham knight
I guess it just depends on how the reader interprets it, but that's why it's one of the best batman stroylines. Ambiguity is perfect after everything that happened to Gordon and Barbara
When I listened to the audio reading of it I heard it as his being arrested and driven away because the laughter sort of faded away.
When I played Arkham knight
the Joker makes several comments relating back to his actions during the killing joke so I assume Rocksteady believes he is left alive.
I guess it just depends on how the reader interprets it, but that's why it's one of the best batman stroylines. Ambiguity is perfect after everything that happened to Gordon and Barbara
Escape Goat
Member
Joker is such a tryhard.
Col WillieSharp
Member
I never thought that Batman killed the Joker, and I certainly didn't see a body. This strikes me as revisionist history.
Silver Arrows
Banned
i admit, this made me chuckle
Thats never been my interpretation. I always thought it was Batman nudging Joker on the shoulder like "thats a good one" Never once then or now does it look like Batman is breaking Joker's neck. The whole ending is after everything they went through and had been through, they had one moment of common ground, of understanding. For Batman to kill him then is beyond stupid.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I always thought they banged at the end.
I honestly think Moore's intention was to make it look as ambiguous as possible without actually knowing what happened. It makes the reader think about the events of the book and consider everything in order to determine for themselves what they think happened. Was Joker's actions enough to push him over the edge? Would it be enough to push you over the edge? What kind of killing is acceptible? What drives people mad?
He didn't necessarily have to know himself what happened.
Also: Fuck canon.
He didn't necessarily have to know himself what happened.
Also: Fuck canon.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Impossible, Killing Joke came out before deviantart and tumblr.
Schweinehund
Member
Pretty much how I viewed it. Batman killing Joker would only prove his point.
Also TKJ is so overrated. I don't even think it's the best Joker story.
A lot of people think the slippery slope excuse is against the character as well and that he'd never even think about killing Joker like he admits in the clip. Everything's different to everyone.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I feel like at least half the people who say they always thought he killed him are full of shit. I had literally never seen that suggested before the Morrison interview. I'm sure some people really did think that, but not nearly as many as claim to.
I don't know what else there is to say since the script is out there and shows he doesn't kill him. It says they are leaning on each other laughing. The end.
Schweinehund
Member
"Comics are shit"
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think this was his intention at all. Like Delta pointed out - this is like arguing John Hughes meant to make Cameron's existence ambiguous as possible throughout Ferris Bueller. The theory fits somewhat, and is a fun, interesting reading of the text, but to suggest it's actually the story being told can only be done if you're discarding huge chunks of the story as it's presented.
Again - it's only ambiguous if you a) remove the point of the story and b) have a very famous comics writer tell a very famous movie writer his entertaining theory on a very popular podcast.
Knowing Alan Moore, I think if you dumped a bunch of salt onto a piece of paper and tried to read it you'd get his opinion on Killing Joke and probably comic books in general.
Like Alan Moore really cares. Yes, This Batman killed This Joker. They're not the same in every incarnation.
Nope
Joker's hand in the sixth panel, which would be when the Joker is beginning to get choked in the 'Batman kills Joker' fiction shows the Joker's hand relaxed. Not clenched, not reaching up to his own neck, just conversationally extended.
The seventh panel shows the Joker and Batman's feet planted on the ground. The Joker's feet aren't lifted, the aren't apart. They are relaxed, on the ground.
The idea that Batman strangles or snaps the Joker's neck has no basis in what you are actually shown in the panels. Batman places a hand on the Joker mid-laughter, but there's no evidence he does more than that.
Joker's hand in the sixth panel, which would be when the Joker is beginning to get choked in the 'Batman kills Joker' fiction shows the Joker's hand relaxed. Not clenched, not reaching up to his own neck, just conversationally extended.
The seventh panel shows the Joker and Batman's feet planted on the ground. The Joker's feet aren't lifted, the aren't apart. They are relaxed, on the ground.
The idea that Batman strangles or snaps the Joker's neck has no basis in what you are actually shown in the panels. Batman places a hand on the Joker mid-laughter, but there's no evidence he does more than that.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Well, seems that old man batman doesn't give a shit
John Dunbar
correct about everything
i have not read the comic or any other batman comic for that matter but based on that single page in the op i'm going to say he killed him.
Pinko Marx
Banned
The joke is meant to draw parallels between Batmans and The Joker. They're both crazy people who dress up in wacky costumes to do commit some night time capers. Batman is on one side of the law while Joker is on the other. Batman wants to help the Joker,rehabilitate him, wants him to "see the light". In the joke the criminal who doesn't make the jump is untrustworthy, saying that he'll just plummet to his death by the hands of the man who is offering to help him. In the final scene of the comic there is a pillar of light between Joker and Batman that slowly gets thinner until it disappears, symbolizing Batman/the criminal on the other side of the jump cutting the light bridge off and killing the other criminal who was too afraid to make the jump.
Edit: There is also the sudden cut in laughter.
Edit: There is also the sudden cut in laughter.
Yeah the laughter trailing off at the end was meant to indicate he was arrested. How could anyone interpret it any differently.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
6th panel, the choking begins. His hand shoots out as he is startled. Next panel, his hand is falling, he's dying.
See, it works both ways.
I always just took it as an old fashioned fade to black. They're laughing, police come, he gets arrested and the end.
His hands stay in the same position from when Bruce grabs his shoulders though.
His hands stay in the same position from when Bruce grabs his shoulders though.
No gunshot tho.
Batman's hand isn't on the Joker's neck in the fifth panel. It is placed against his shoulder or chest. His hand doesn't shoot out in the sixth panel.
DrGonzo615
Banned
Well I was always under the impression that a lot of Alan Moores work was kinda stand alone stuff and others would pick from it. But Im not the most avid comic book reader....
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
He's startled from the contact. Then he gets choked.
It's plain as day that he kills him. the fading into the darkness is the biggest giveaway. It's a metaphor for batman's descent into darkness himself
This is my view as well. It is an interesting interpretation now. I never quite thought of it that way I guess.
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