Mista
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A little later than planned (flights, jetlag, other things), here's Rich and John with their take on the recent AMD Zen 2 and Navi reveals - along with what it all means for the next generation consoles.
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A little later than planned (flights, jetlag, other things), here's Rich and John with their take on the recent AMD Zen 2 and Navi reveals - along with what it all means for the next generation consoles.
Funny enough they needs to have a bit of knowledge before made these claims.Basically said based on Navi reveal 40CU with 4 disabled would be ideal for console APU size. I commented the other day that based on power consumption of Navi and $399 price point, 5700 Pro at 1.8GHz would be a good fit.
That too. Still nothing about.I’m waiting that PS5 video they promised in last video a week ago lol
They were talking about the size of the APU.Funny enough they needs to have a bit of knowledge before made these claims.
They missed that too?Surprised at how they missed the SIMD units doubling in width, handling 32 wide warps in one click and the old 64 wide warps in two (and the latter being more of the “enhanced backward compatibility with GCN” part than the number of CU’s)...
RDNA power draw didn’t allow too big chip or clocks in console form.They were talking about the size of the APU.
I personally tend to focus more on power consumption. You can see power consumption of Navi with either 36CU at 1.6GHz(5700 Pro), or 40CU at 1.7GHz(5700XT), or 40CU at 1.8GHz(50th Anniversary).
For Digital Foundry the PS5/Scarlett will be at best GTX 1080 level
The best 2019 Navi discrete highly clocked GPU is 1080 level (few % better)... so consoles would have to be based on bigger chip or/and have higher clocks. Big chip would occupy more die space and high clock needs better cooling/consumes more power (and gets you more shit chips in production), I think performance around 9TF RDNA is quite possible and that would be ~12TF if it was Polaris chip.
Everything about Navi seems good except the power draw. Feel like there was a bigger perf/watt jump with Polaris.RDNA power draw didn’t allow too big chip or clocks in console form.
That is one of the biggest issues with GCN that carry on RDNA... they only had improvement due the shrink... no architecture improvement in power draw like NVidia did with Maxwell.
Launch die size at 7nm | "6nm" die size (15% reduction) |
---|---|
400 mm2 | 340 mm2 |
390 mm2 | 331.5 mm2 |
380 mm2 | 323 mm2 |
Because AMD is pushing high clocks... Sacrificing perf/watt for max performanceEverything about Navi seems good except the power draw. Feel like there was a bigger perf/watt jump with Polaris.
Node | 16 nm | 10 nm | 7 nm | 7nm/10nm Δ |
---|---|---|---|---|
Gate | 90 nm | 66 nm | 57 nm | 0.86x |
Min Metal | 64 nm | 42 nm | 40 nm | 0.95x |
Node | 10 nm | 7 nm | Δ |
---|---|---|---|
Transistor Profile | |||
Fin Pitch | 36 nm | 30 nm | 0.83x |
Fin Width | 6 nm | 6 nm | 1.00x |
Fin Height | 42 nm | 52 nm | 1.24x |
"2nd Generation 7nm
TSMC also developed a 2nd generation of their 7nm process. This is an optimized process which uses the same design rules and DUV and is unrelated to 7nm+ which is EUV-based. This process is entirely design-compatible with the first generation but enjoys additional power and performance enhancements. For their second generation process, TSMC made some additional optimizations.
All in all, the 2nd-generation 7nm process is said to deliver over 5% improvement in performance. Additionally, at the same leakage, at high frequencies, the second-generation 7nm process has improved the Vmin by 50 mV. Qualcomm has stated that the second-generation 7-nanometer node will be used for their next-generation cellular 5G modem which will deliver 2x peak data rate over their first-generation 5G modem."
- Fin profile Optimizations
- Epi Optimizations
- MOL resistance Optimizations
- FEOL capacitance
- Metal gate Optimizations
At the minimum consoles will have all of big Navi tech(Consoles are probably a derivative of Big Navi).
Wait a sec. If my math is correct wouldn't that only be 8.3tflops? Kick rocks with that. 12Tflops minimum.Basically said based on Navi reveal 40CU with 4 disabled would be ideal for console APU size. I commented the other day that based on power consumption of Navi and $399 price point, 5700 Pro at 1.8GHz would be a good fit.
How confident are you that sony will go with these specs? the thing that rich said in a different video is that always lower your expectation when it comes to console specs. I mean dont these speculative discussions happen every generation where people expect higher specs than the final product?. I have a slight feeling we all might get dissapointed with the final specs.This video is a waste of time, building a chip around 7nm weakness (clocks) instead of its strength (density increase) is shortsighted.
72CU APU = 399.1 mm2 (64 enabled)
64CU APU = 385.6 mm2 (56 enabled)
With the possibility of quick cost reductions come 2021:
A 36CUs chip power consumption at 1.8Ghz would be just as high if not more than a 64CU chip at 1600Mhz.
Launch die size at 7nm "6nm" die size (15% reduction) 400 mm2 340 mm2 390 mm2 331.5 mm2 380 mm2 323 mm2
Because AMD is pushing high clocks... Sacrificing perf/watt for max performance
I’m waiting that PS5 video they promised in last video a week ago lol
Who? From DF?"Developers are quite happy with PS5" - Rich
Megaton
Who? From DF?
"Developers are quite happy with PS5" - Rich
Megaton
Devs prefer next gen instead of next next gen."Developers are quite happy with PS5" - Rich
Megaton
My guess they'll have to give you 9 base Xbox Ones as change.But what about my 24 TF ?
My absolute minimum expectation is 11TFHow confident are you that sony will go with these specs? the thing that rich said in a different video is that always lower your expectation when it comes to console specs
My absolute minimum expectation is 11TF
56CUs @1500-1540Mhz = 10.7TF-11TF
My more optimistic "mid" expectation
56CUs @1680Mhz = 12TF
64CUs @1500Mhz = 12.2TF
My most optimistic of expectations (needs 7nm EUV):
64CUs @1710Mhz = 14TF
72CUs @1550Mhz = 14.28TF
It would be a dream if consoles licensed imgtech RTI think it will be close to option 1 for them. There is no point in a small navi cut count won't have the juice to be next gen imo. The current count needs to be north of 50 to be really next generation. I am also interested how far behind the AMD RT hardware will be compared to the nvidia version. How far the effects will have to be scaled back vs the 2070 and higher nvidia cards.
It would be a dream if consoles licensed imgtech RT
12TF Navi would match a RTX 2080How much of will 10+ navi teraflops imact graphics for next gen? I new the tflops thing has become a meme but is more flops really translate into better graphics.
Well hot damn, Its hard to grasp of how amazing this will translate into real time graphics. Like holy fuck, if naugty dog got their hands on this or guerrilla damn. I still doubt it, richard in the df video mentioned that devs are "quite happy". For my interpreation it if the ps5 was good devs would be "overwhelmed" or stunned.12TF Navi would match a RTX 2080
I would take anything DF says with a grain of salt, they have no inside info and Richard is butthurt Sony chose Wired over DFI still doubt it, richard in the df video mentioned that devs are "quite happy". For my interpreation it if the ps5 was good devs would be "overwhelmed" or stunned.
Hmm i am surpised if true, still DF gives the best most researched opinion in regards gaming tech. Curious as to the source of richard being mad at sony not interviewing with them lolI would take anything DF says with a grain of salt, they have no inside info and Richard is butthurt Sony chose Wired over DF
That being said my baseline expectation is 11TF which its still beast
You can still be cautionaly optimistic so expect 10TF to not be disappointedHmm i am surpised if true, still DF gives the best most researched opinion in regards gaming tech.
Just mine and others intuitionCurious as to the source of richard being mad at sony not interviewing with them lol
Well hot damn, Its hard to grasp of how amazing this will translate into real time graphics. Like holy fuck, if naugty dog got their hands on this or guerrilla damn. I still doubt it, richard in the df video mentioned that devs are "quite happy". For my interpreation it if the ps5 was good devs would be "overwhelmed" or stunned.
LMAOOOOOCould just be the old English penchant for understatement
pants literally on fire
"It is quite warm"