Shin
Banned
As is your right to do so, information is scarce on all fronts.I’m not buying this.
As is your right to do so, information is scarce on all fronts.I’m not buying this.
As is your right to do so, information is scarce on all fronts.
It got me wondering as 16GB is a rumor that was thrown around before (don't remember if they wrote GDDR6 behind it).I'm not convinced by HBM2+DDR4 rumors. Nvidia is already using GDDR6 on everything from 1660 ti and up, and Navi is going to use GDDR6. Seems like the market would follow GDDR6 more naturally due to this.
60 CU x 64 = 3840 Stream Process
3840 x 2 x 1400Mhz ~ 10.7 Tflops
3840 x 2 x 1800Mhz ~ 13.8 Tflops
62 CU x 64 = 3968 Stream Process
3968 x 2 x 1400Mhz ~ 11.1 Tflops
3968 x 2 x 1800Mhz ~ 14.2 Tflops
In reality there are many possibilities.
what DF are talking about makes absolutely sense.
when they go full with 60CU no way this gpu can run 1,8GHz without monstet cooling and bigger cost for all components
i think PS5 will have 40CU with 1,8GHz that means 9,2 TF.
such specs console has no need for more than 12-16GB Ram
and is 399$ worth
I think even 12TF is a stretch. I'd be surprised if we get more than ~54 active CU's and more than 1.5GHz gpu clock speed. aka 10.3TFlops
If Radeon VII is anything to go by you'd need a 400mm^2 chip to fit an 8 core-Zen cpu and 64CU's (with 60 active).
For reference the launch PS4 and the PS4 Pro chips are around 325-328mm^2.
And that isn't even getting into the clock speed which ain't going to be close to 1.8GHz imo. People are widely optimistic in what they expect.
Whatever GPU performance MS/Sony will be able to deliver relies on AMD to be able to deliver improvements in performance per watt in Navi.
The best proxy for GPU performance right now is Radeon VII (3840 SPs) given that it's manufactured at the same 7nm as the new console chips will be. Radeon VII uses around ~300W at stock settings (1.4GHz Base, 1.75GHz boost) which gives us a peak of 13.4TFLOPS.
So it's all up in the air really.given that radeon VII is 331mm2 in which fits 60CU assuming ps5 die size won't increase in size from ps4 which is 347mm2 and zen cores pretty much same size as jaguar cores, in that case ps5 should end up around 56 CU, 6 CU should be disabled giving total of 50 CU so if 1.8 Ghz is true PS5 would be 11.52Tflops. which is great, given that ps4 was 399$.
What? I never knew there was a radiocast. I'd rather listen to that. You have a link compadre?Radiocast with the Wired’s guy that interviewed Cerny... he left some things out from the article.
It was posted here.
$399 needs to die, I hope they make it $499 that way chip size can be on the X range with good cooling. So raging from 360-400 mm2given that radeon VII is 331mm2 in which fits 60CU assuming ps5 die size won't increase in size from ps4 which is 347mm2 and zen cores pretty much same size as jaguar cores, in that case ps5 should end up around 56 CU, 6 CU should be disabled giving total of 50 CU so if 1.8 Ghz is true PS5 would be 11.52Tflops. which is great, given that ps4 was 399$.
Super biased armchair analysts in the wild of course talking about lower numbers lol never fails.
Sony console won't be less than 12tf imo.
PSVR was confirmed at least, the rest should but nothing official yet AFAIK.Do anyone think that ps5 is will also be compatible with accessories from 4?
Reads like an over engineered heap of trashToo detailed to be made up or someone spent some serious fucking time coming up with this info, I've never read about before. On mobile so using via via link: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...-anaconda-dont-want-none.112607/post-20024749
PS4 refresh
PS5 memory and storage systems
- sometime between september and november
- 199
- fabbed on samsung 7nm EUV
- best wafer pricing in the industry
- die size 110mm²
- no PRO refresh, financially not viable yet
- too close to PS5 as well
- 24 GB RAM in total (20 GB usable by games)
- 8 GB in form of 2 * 4-Hi stacks HBM2
- Sony got "amazing" deal for HBM
- in part due to them buying up bad chips from other customers which can't run higher then 1.6 Gbps while keeping 1.2v.
- HBM is expected to scale down in price a lot more than GDDR6 over the console lifetime
- Samsung, Micron and SK Hynix already shifting part of their capacity towards HBM due to falling NAND prices
- Sony will be one of the first high volume customers of TSMCs InFO_MS when mass production starts later this year (normal InFo already used by Apple in their iPhone)
- InFO_MS brings down the cost compared to traditional silicon interposers - has thermal and performance advantage as well
- InFO_MS allows them to drive their 1.6 Gbps chips @ 1.7 Gbps (435 GB/sec.) without having to increase the voltage above 1.2v
- HBM is more power efficient compared to GDDR6 - the savings were invested into more GPU power
- additional 16 GB in form of DDR4 @ 256 bit for 102.4 GB/sec.
- 4 GB reserved for OS, the remaining 12 GB usable by games
- memory automatically managed by HBCC and appears as 20 GB to the developers
- HBCC manages streaming of game data from storage as well
- developers can use the API to take control if they choose and manage the memory and storage streaming themselves
- memory solution alleviates problems found in PS4
- namely that CPU bandwidth reduces GPU bandwidth disproportionately
- 2 stacks of HBM have 512 banks (more banks = fewer conflicts and higher utilization)
- GDDR6 better than GDDR5 and GDDR5x in that regard but still less banks than HBM
- at the same time trying to keep CPU memory access to slower DDR4
- very satisfied with decision to use two kinds of memory for price to performance reasons
- allowed them to go below ~50 GFLOPs per GB/sec. bandwidth but still keep above 40 GFLOPs per GB/sec.
Do anyone think that ps5 is will also be compatible with accessories from 4?
Do anyone think that ps5 is will also be compatible with accessories from 4?
So it's all up in the air really.
What? I never knew there was a radiocast. I'd rather listen to that. You have a link compadre?
Im fine with double the X. So 12TFI’m fine with 11TFlops, anything higher is just icing on the cake full of awesome exclusives.
and incredibly slow at that! given all the copromises of such setup i call fake.since it's only 8GB of HBM2,
You are mixing CPU and GPU clocks.Just watched the video. This one is much better than the last rambling one. Nice investigation and research work there. All thanks to Apisak too.
Btw, if testing started at 1ghz, then 3 months later 1.8ghz, and has a Max of 3.2ghz, what's stopping them from testing at higher than 1.8ghz? Trying to achieve the highest possible power without blowing up the console
Wasn't the X at above 2ghz, or am I confusing things?
Somebody help me out here.
Can it play Crisis, Yes/No?
#Team60I'm placing my bet now: 56 CUs for PS5.
Isn't Vega 64 12TF?I’m confused now but Cerny said performance at Vega 64 level not Vega 56.
> 13TFs
Yes. I had a feeling I didand incredibly slow at that! given all the copromises of such setup i call fake.
You are mixing CPU and GPU clocks.
There are benefits to HBM2 it but it goes above my head, but for those interested.and incredibly slow at that!
There are benefits to HBM2 it but it goes above my head, but for those interested.
FP16 REDEEMED!Time to go full on mental:
64cux64x2x3.2ghz = 26TF let's do this!
Expect my area in flames and in the news worldwide, all because of that console ^
Time stamp pleasePretty much and here you go:
#Team60
Isn't Vega 64 12TF?
So in between 12-13tf is what we should expect?
Do you know the time stamp?He said performance not teraflop count. I expect Navi to be a lot more efficient so it may perform better then Vega64 at a lower flop count.
He asked for a link, I was the one that supplied that audiocast, hence the re-link.Time stamp please
Digital Foundry is on fire.
Too detailed to be made up or someone spent some serious fucking time coming up with this info.
Sony got "amazing" deal for HBM
in part due to them buying up bad chips from other customers which can't run higher then 1.6 Gbps while keeping 1.2v.
HBM is expected to scale down in price a lot more than GDDR6 over the console lifetime
Samsung, Micron and SK Hynix already shifting part of their capacity towards HBM due to falling NAND prices
Sony will be one of the first high volume customers of TSMCs InFO_MS when mass production starts later this year (normal InFo already used by Apple in their iPhone)
InFO_MS brings down the cost compared to traditional silicon.
interposers - has thermal and performance advantage as well
InFO_MS allows them to drive their 1.6 Gbps chips @ 1.7 Gbps (435 GB/sec.) without having to increase the voltage above 1.2v
Not strange, memory/supplier vs. APU.Sony get cheap HBM from Samsung/hynix/micron, but TSMC is making it?
That was a good listen. Thank you.Pretty much and here you go:
Did you find the Vega 64 ballpark talk? im 42 min and still nothing.That was a good listen. Thank you.
No nothing.Did you find the Vega 64 ballpark talk? im 42 min and still nothing.
timestamp plsRadiocast with the Wired’s guy that interviewed Cerny... he left some things out from the article.
It was posted here.
Vega 64 is 12.6TFs.#Team60
Isn't Vega 64 12TF?
So in between 12-13tf is what we should expect?
Maybe I’m missing something but how does this equate to the 880 GB/sec leak?
I strongly doubt that sony and especially m.cerny will choose two different types of memory when unified memory on PS4 has proven to be the right solution. Personally, I think it will be GDDR6, which would seem logical and less complicated for developers.I meant with HBM and DDR4.
So DF is making videos talking about and speculating about much about nothing? Must be desperate for some clicks and views
ME: I want a new house, with a bigger kitchen, and more room for the kids to play.My biggest fear come this next generation of games is whether we will still be able to keep a steady creative pool of developers that can make bonafide masterpieces. Unfortunately, GAAS may be one of the factors that kills the creativity that drove the gaming industry to the heights that it comfortably sits in at the moment.
I am more curious about how about 25 years doing a respectable strong job pushing the industry forward every time Sony is taking about something it is cause of concern and doubt vs American company saying the same or bolder and that eliciting hype and throwing critical reasoning out of the window... PS1 rocking it and Xbox starting to loom over the horizon? Concern... fear... nobody wins twice in a row... PS2 smashed records? Next gen is the interesting one, nobody wins three times in a row, MS is just starting to get serious... PS3 recovers and concludes the generation relay really well paving the way for PS4? Age of Sony is done, Durango is where it’s at, final nail in the coffin, etc... PS4 greatly outsells the competition and delivers tons of great software gems... <insert more F.U.D.>... tsk about the competition, how the next generation is really the interesting one and find some talking points to overblown and stick it to then anytime you can...
Not sure why... ...
You know why......I am more curious about how about 25 years doing a respectable strong job pushing the industry forward every time Sony is taking about something it is cause of concern and doubt vs American company saying the same or bolder and that eliciting hype and throwing critical reasoning out of the window... PS1 rocking it and Xbox starting to loom over the horizon? Concern... fear... nobody wins twice in a row... PS2 smashed records? Next gen is the interesting one, nobody wins three times in a row, MS is just starting to get serious... PS3 recovers and concludes the generation relay really well paving the way for PS4? Age of Sony is done, Durango is where it’s at, final nail in the coffin, etc... PS4 greatly outsells the competition and delivers tons of great software gems... <insert more F.U.D.>... tsk about the competition, how the next generation is really the interesting one and find some talking points to overblown and stick it to then anytime you can...
Not sure why... ...
I am more curious about how about 25 years doing a respectable strong job pushing the industry forward every time Sony is taking about something it is cause of concern and doubt vs American company saying the same or bolder and that eliciting hype and throwing critical reasoning out of the window... PS1 rocking it and Xbox starting to loom over the horizon? Concern... fear... nobody wins twice in a row... PS2 smashed records? Next gen is the interesting one, nobody wins three times in a row, MS is just starting to get serious... PS3 recovers and concludes the generation relay really well paving the way for PS4? Age of Sony is done, Durango is where it’s at, final nail in the coffin, etc... PS4 greatly outsells the competition and delivers tons of great software gems... <insert more F.U.D.>... tsk about the competition, how the next generation is really the interesting one and find some talking points to overblown and stick it to then anytime you can...
Not sure why... ...
Im fine with double the X. So 12TF
People forget 4k will eat up a lot of resources, throw in resource hog RT into the mix and we need every TF we can.
The issue I see with your line of reasoning, is for you.... Everything boils down to sales. Forget hardware, games, genres, features, controllers, etc...
It's all about how many of those Playstations Sony has sold. In a thread strictly about DF's reporting on Sony hardware, and here you are bringing up MS, and how Sony have dominated in sales.... When nobody is talking about that. Not even in the post you quoted.
What's curious to me is how sales became the measuring stick for consoles that it has. I'd say gaming in general, but it's really only consoles.
For example. Any 2 people can have a debate about which game is better. Let's say GTA5 vs Assassins Creed. Those 2 people will bat the merits of each game back and forth, but I've never seen anything like "GTA sold more, therefore it's better." Weather you debate auto brands on a car forum, or your favorite rifle company on a gun forum.... The "my preferred brand sold more" argument doesn't fly. Only when it comes to consoles is sales the measuring stick. It stifles discussion on the subject because points of merit are quickly overruled by "sales".
Not sure why.
ME: I want a new house, with a bigger kitchen, and more room for the kids to play.
You: I don't know, people do all sorts of bad things in their houses now-a-days, families used to cook more and eat out less, this is what brought society where it comfortably sits at the moment.
My honest answer: well, a new console doesn't counter this, it will only make it easier for smaller teams to develop their games using Unity or other tools not geared toward performance, but productivity... and they'll end up making more with their time.
#Team60
Isn't Vega 64 12TF?
So in between 12-13tf is what we should expect?