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[Syrus]

Just realised I wont buy shadow of war until november, almost 3 months later.

Still wont play witcher 3 either

 

[c0de]

I left that out because we all already know it. Of course patched games can take full advantage. There's no need for all of us to say that in every One X post, any more than we need to explain the rotation of the earth when talking about sunsets.

Yet you are here repeating again and again things we all know, willingly to skim through the thread to tell people what is wrong and right, correcting every bit of "false" information, like in other threads before.

 

[00ich]

Looking into those quotes Albert Penello actually doesn't say anything about using the full spec anywhere. The only one talking about it that way was actually you and you understood the Eurogamer interview!

And it probably doesn't matter at all if it runs at full or half speed. Almost every game will become CPU limited if the framerate should improve significantly.

I'm still curious what problems the emulated eSRAM will bring. Unpatched games compensate in no way for the increased latency to the GDDR5 Ram and might have a terrible memory access pattern, potentially stalling the CPU and effectively limiting the additional CPU power.

 

[cakely]

It will use all 100% of the Xbox One X GPU to boost games. Devs need only to recompile their game on the July XDK. It's not a guarantee every dev will recompile their older released titles on the new XDK, but the way you say what you say seems to focus only on 3TF and an obvious implication that this is all that can ever be used on existing xbox one titles, and that somehow Microsoft or DF misled people. But people couldn't possibly view it that way if you weren't conveniently leaving out facts regarding the July XDK, which gives all titles automatic performance improvements on Xbox One X, even if a dev doesn't have an Xbox One X dev kit, and even if the dev doesn't do a single thing to target specific xbox one x improvements.

That step will still require a new patch to be sent out for each existing game that was released before the July XDK. Hopefully we'll see a quite a few developers take that extra step.

 

[Colbert]

And it probably doesn't matter at all if it runs at full or half speed. Almost every game will become CPU limited if the framerate should improve significantly.

I'm still curious what problems the emulated eSRAM will bring. Unpatched games compensate in no way for the increased latency to the GDDR5 Ram and might have a terrible access pattern, potentially stalling the CPU and effectively limiting the additional CPU power.

Most of the time there will be no noticable issues as the ESRAM is mapped to GDDR5 instead and possible issues are mostly depressed by the much faster memory speed the GDDR5 runs with. (100MB/s difference at least).

That step will still require a new patch to be sent out for each existing game that was released before the July XDK. Hopefully we'll see a quite a few developers take that extra step.

I personally do not expect many patches of that type as the 3TF GPU performance and the CPU clock increase should max out Xbox One games in question already if they are not CPU bound.

 

[Gestault]

Arguing that you can't say 16x AF is a standard feature, because a dev could theoretically force disabling it at a later point. Absolutely brilliant.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

That step will still require a new patch to be sent out for each existing game that was released before the July XDK. Hopefully we'll see a quite a few developers take that extra step.

Recompiling the exact same code just on a newer XDK without the need for an xbox one x dev kit, nor without targeting any xbox one x specific enhancements, grants you a tremendous performance gain on xbox one x by default. It doesn't sound as if it gets much easier than that.

With as much complicated work as most devs do, this seems about as trivial as it can possibly get for a studio. And why wouldn't devs do this if there's even a tiny shred of a possibility it will lead to their game getting a second wind in the sales department, or just that it will lead to more people playing their games that were released already and moved on from?

Arguing that you can't say 16x AF is a standard feature, because a dev could theoretically force disabling it at a later point. Absolutely brilliant.

I was trying to make sense of this and find a simple way to describe it. You did what I could not.

 

[cakely]

Recompiling the exact same code just on a newer XDK without the need for an xbox one x dev kit, nor without targeting any xbox one x specific enhancements, grants you a tremendous performance gain on xbox one x by default. It doesn't sound as if it gets much easier than that.

With as much complicated work as most devs do, this seems about as trivial as it can possibly get for a studio. And why wouldn't devs do this if there's even a tiny shred of a possibility it will lead to their game getting a second wind in the sales department, or just that it will lead to more people playing their games that were released already and moved on from?

I agree that it sounds as simple as rebuilding the project against the new libraries and sending out a new patch. And I would certainly hope that many games that were released before the July XDK will get this treatment.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Looking into those quotes Albert Penello actually doesn't say anything about using the full spec anywhere. The only one talking about it that way was actually you and how you understood the Eurogamer interview!

Please correct me if I did not find the correct quote you were talking about!

That's the right conversation, but you're looking at the tail end. It began with this:

1. "Boost Mode" like PS4 Pro except always turned on and using the full capabilities of the system....

This is all correct.

So I asked if all boosted titles would really use the full capabilities. He responded as stated, that if there were compatibility problems then not, but he was unaware of any such problems and his initial assessment was correct in spirit.

Now we have learned that every released Xbox One game falls into this "compatibility problem" bucket. Both Mr. Penello and Mr. Goossen did leave themselves outs, so they weren't lying. But pretty much everyone assumed--naturally, I'd argue, given the language used--that "compatibility problems" would be exceptions, nothing anywhere close to every single game. This is not an idiosyncratic interpretation by me. Digital Foundry thought so, and so did many GAF members:

Isn't it slighty different though? As games will supposedly have access to all of the new hardware....

Not the exact same, because Microsoft is taking on responsibility to ensure your games still work.... Boost mode also doesn't use all of the CUs

The implications of their previous statements was that use of fewer resources would be rare and case-by-case. Instead, it's universal.

Yet you are here repeating again and again things we all know, willingly to skim through the thread to tell people what is wrong and right, correcting every bit of "false" information, like in other threads before.

I apologize if the info isn't new to you, but since lots of folks are disagreeing with me, it's clearly not "things we all know".

Remove the quotes around "false", and this is exactly what I'm trying to do: post actual facts, especially if they've been contradicted by others. If something I say is false actually is true (or vice versa), please correct me. What have I gotten incorrect in this thread?

 

[Christocolus]

I hope we get some update on Halo soon. I need to know what improvements the 1X brings to Halo https://twitter.com/franklez/status/882656845277544448

Frank O'Connor: "Will be a good week to be a Halo fan this week.

 

[Matt]

Recompiling the exact same code just on a newer XDK without the need for an xbox one x dev kit, nor without targeting any xbox one x specific enhancements, grants you a tremendous performance gain on xbox one x by default. It doesn't sound as if it gets much easier than that.

With as much complicated work as most devs do, this seems about as trivial as it can possibly get for a studio. And why wouldn't devs do this if there's even a tiny shred of a possibility it will lead to their game getting a second wind in the sales department, or just that it will lead to more people playing their games that were released already and moved on from?

That's not going to happen on any large scale. It is actually more complicated and costly than you give it credit for to re-open development on a closed game, even to "just" recompile on a new SDK.

Not that it really matters, the extra preformance boost should be good enough to make revisiting most games a treat.

 

[MaximusPayne]

so what kind of improvement are we looking at on older xbox one games such as sunset overdrive and titanfall???

 

[Dynomutt]

so what kind of improvement are we looking at on older xbox one games such as sunset overdrive and titanfall???

They will become Sunset Overdriven and Titanfaller.

 

[Colbert]

...

Let's say it that way: I have and had access to some of the material Eurogamer just reported on (not the benchmarks but the XDK roadmap and how the migration process will play out). Those documents were always clear about how the Xbox One BC would work. Because of those official but confidential documents I am also sure that the responses Albert Penello made here were not intended to suggest that all available capabilities would be usable for Xbox One games unpatched on Xbox One X.

 

[MaximusPayne]

They will become Sunset Overdriven and Titanfaller.

I just tried doing some research on this and found that Titanfall 1 wasn't a locked 60FPS, so Xbox One X will help there. Sunset Overdrive targeted 30FPS but dipped at times, so that stands a chance of being rock solid.

Otherwise, it'll be load times and 16xAF

Sunset will get nothing if not patched in terms of performance or resolution, Titanfall will have better frames per second.

 

[Black Republican]

i want a X1X bad now

i'll probably fund it selling my XB1S for it

 

[Always-honest]

Sounds goood.

 

[Psyrgery ES]

i want a X1X bad now

i'll probably fund it selling my XB1S for it

Same here

 

[Okami Haundo]

so what kind of improvement are we looking at on older xbox one games such as sunset overdrive and titanfall???

I just tried doing some research on this and found that Titanfall 1 wasn't a locked 60FPS, so Xbox One X will help there. Sunset Overdrive targeted 30FPS but dipped at times, so that stands a chance of being rock solid.

Otherwise, it'll be load times and 16xAF

 

[c0de]

so what kind of improvement are we looking at on older xbox one games such as sunset overdrive and titanfall???

Sunset will get nothing if not patched in terms of performance or resolution, Titanfall will have better frames per second.

 

[LukasTaves]

In other words, patch the game. Boosting only applies to unpatched games, so that's what I was talking about. That patched games will have full access to the entire suite of One X hardware enhancements is eminently obvious.

Look above, the whole gpu is available to all games, there's only some bizarre hard-coded split between pixel and vertex shading for older SDKs.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Start the thread.....

;p

Did you read the article where they talked about pro and the 1X?

http://wccftech.com/sumo-digital-xb1x-15k-props/

Yeah read that.

No way it's worth starting that thread on here. It'll turn into a massive shit show with all the same posters coming to downplay it before Y2Kev comes in and locks it.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Are all new games getting 16x AF too?

 

[Trup1aya]

This isn't quite true. The 16xAF is only guaranteed for unpatched games (where Microsoft can force it knowing that there's tons of extra bandwidth available). Patched games will use whatever AF level the developer sets (and we've already seen levels much lower than 16x in a patched game).


In other words, patch the game. Boosting only applies to unpatched games, so that's what I was talking about. That patched games will have full access to the entire suite of One X hardware enhancements is eminently obvious.


It is a downgrade from their previously announced projections. Truth does not bend to your rofls, homeslice.

It is, of course, still a massive upgrade from standard Xbox One.


Yes it was, by at least two of them. One of them is the Director of Project Planning for Xbox.


I left that out because we all already know it. Of course patched games can take full advantage. There's no need for all of us to say that in every One X post, any more than we need to explain the rotation of the earth when talking about sunsets.

No, the problem is you aren't distinguishing between game patched to natively support Xb1x, and games patched to the new XDK which "automatically" receive a performance boost via back compatability (redirecting Xb1 hardware calls to xb1x hardware). There is a big difference!

A developer of previously launched xb1 games CAN update the game to take full advantage of the xb1 GPU w/o actually writing xb1 specific code.

That said, there are probably very few old games that would see any benefit from the accessing the full capabilities of the GPU because their performance limits were hardcoded before devs knew what Scorpio was or how it would work.

 

[Colbert]

Are all new games getting 16x AF too?

From Eurogamer interview with Andrew Goosen:

Resolution is an important, defining aspect of image quality but it is not the only one. Texture filtering is hugely important - and it's actually an element where both PS4 and Xbox One have let us down a little compared to the same titles running on PC, where the full force of 16x anisotropic filtering can make a big difference.

"We built into the hardware the capability of overwriting all bilinear and all trilinear fetches to be anisotropic," Andrew Goossen reveals. "And then we've dialled up the anisotropic all the way up to max. All of our titles by default when you're running on Scorpio, they'll be full anisotropic."

Edit:
This statement was made in the context of Xbox One BC but the same statement is repeated outside this certain context as well.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

^Awesome!

Red Dead is going to be sweet on the X1X

 

[SenjutsuSage]

That's not going to happen on any large scale. It is actually more complicated and costly than you give it credit for to re-open development on a closed game, even to "just" recompile on a new SDK.

Not that it really matters, the extra preformance boost should be good enough to make revisiting most games a treat.

Come on Matt, how much more difficult can it be than simply launching the game code in the new XDK and simply clicking the "To Infinity and Beyond" button?

 

[Colbert]

^Awesome!

Red Dead is going to be sweet on the X1X

You were to fast with your response actually. The statememt I was quoting was in the context of Xbox One BC but is was also repeated for all Xbox One X games in other articles. So there is no clear answer from whats on the table in public.

 

[Fredrik]

Gah! Just let me preorder it!

I'm currently using PS4 strictly for exclusives because XB1 versions will get a boost.

Performance seems truly great but I still want to hear some noise level reports too. And I want UHD Blu-ray playback reports too.

 

[Colbert]

Come on Matt, how much more difficult can it be than simply launching the game code in the new XDK and simply clicking the "To Infinity and Beyond" button?

Tbh, the most time consuming thing can be the lead up time for updating your development environment with the new XDK. Then it depends if the new XDK version produces new errors or warnings in your code you have to deal with. I also would not expect many of such patches as the perf+ even for unpatched games should be enough to max out most of the Xbox One games (if not CPU bound).

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Gah! Just let me preorder it!

I'm currently using PS4 strictly for exclusives because XB1 versions will get a boost.

Performance seems truly great but I still want to hear some noise level reports too. And I want UHD Blu-ray playback reports too.

I didn't hear the dev kit at all at E3.

Spoiler

E3 is louder than a mofo, but ignore that important detail .

Tbh, the most time consuming thing can be the lead up time to be actually able to even make use of the new XDK release in your development environment. The part of recompiling is not the issue here. Than it depends if the new XDK version produces new errors or warnings in your code you have to deal with. I also would not expect many of such patches as the perf+ even unpatched should be enough to max out most of the Xbox One games (if not CPU bound).

Funny enough, this is exactly the kind of response I was hoping would come from my joke post. Okay, so it's not exactly so trivial a thing to do, and the base performance boost unpatched should be enough to max out all existing titles regardless if it isn't CPU bound. But I notice you conveniently didn't deny the existence of a clickable "to infinity and beyond" button.

 

[Christocolus]

^Awesome!

Red Dead is going to be sweet on the X1X

Don't forget RDR2. That game will be glorious on the 1X too.

 

[Leyasu]

This isn't quite true. The 16xAF is only guaranteed for unpatched games (where Microsoft can force it knowing that there's tons of extra bandwidth available). Patched games will use whatever AF level the developer sets (and we've already seen levels much lower than 16x in a patched game).


In other words, patch the game. Boosting only applies to unpatched games, so that's what I was talking about. That patched games will have full access to the entire suite of One X hardware enhancements is eminently obvious.


It is a downgrade from their previously announced projections. Truth does not bend to your rofls, homeslice.

It is, of course, still a massive upgrade from standard Xbox One.


Yes it was, by at least two of them. One of them is the Director of Project Planning for Xbox.


I left that out because we all already know it. Of course patched games can take full advantage. There's no need for all of us to say that in every One X post, any more than we need to explain the rotation of the earth when talking about sunsets.

Like clockwork in an xbox thread.

 

[LKSmash]

i want a X1X bad now

i'll probably fund it selling my XB1S for it

It's not out til November. You can save $100 a month til then and you'll have it funded without selling your XB1S if you really want to keep it.

 

[fastford58]

Beastly. I wasn't going to early adopt because price....but man.

 

[LukasTaves]

Sunset will get nothing if not patched in terms of performance or resolution, Titanfall will have better frames per second.

Sunset has some mild drops when things get too chaotic near the end, it would be locked on xbonex, plus the extra af.

 

[leeh]

Tbh, the most time consuming thing can be the lead up time for updating your development environment with the new XDK. Then it depends if the new XDK version produces new errors or warnings in your code you have to deal with. I also would not expect many of such patches as the perf+ even for unpatched games should be enough to max out most of the Xbox One games (if not CPU bound).

Games studios don't develop like they're in their bedrooms.

 

[Metalingus5150]

I can't wait for this system to be out and everyone can stop being at each other's throats.

 

[Amerzel]

For all the people asking about pre-ordering, here's what they said after E3.

Initially, it was reported that Xbox One X needs FCC clearance before going on sale, and hence retailers are not taking up pre-orders at the moment. Microsoft's Albert Penello today revealed the exact reason behind why Xbox One X pre-order hasn't started yet. Speaking to our friend at Gamertag Radio:

"We are a long way away from launch. So I think we wanted to have a really strong E3 around talking about the product and talking about the games. We are going to do pre-orders closer to launch, I think we are going to have some fun stuff to talk about with pre-orders that we haven't talked about now."

http://www.gamepur.com/news/26976-amazon-xbox-one-pre-order.html

 

[Synth]

I can't wait for this system to be out and everyone can stop being at each other's throats.

Yes, consoles releasing has historically put an end to all conflict, and everyone lives happily ever after.

 

[Fredrik]

I didn't hear the dev kit at all at E3.

Spoiler

E3 is louder than a mofo, but ignore that important detail .

I want a serious noise level measurement, and not just with one single console either, if MS strongly believe in their product they should send a batch of like 10 consoles to DF to be noise tested!

I got burned by my noisy 360 and PS3, then my noisy PS4 too and talk about variations between different units, so when Pro had the same issues and variations I just closed my wallet. MS need to prove that they didn't mess up this aspect while hunting for great performance.

 

[Matt]

Tbh, the most time consuming thing can be the lead up time for updating your development environment with the new XDK. Then it depends if the new XDK version produces new errors or warnings in your code you have to deal with. I also would not expect many of such patches as the perf+ even for unpatched games should be enough to max out most of the Xbox One games (if not CPU bound).

Yep, plus having to test and cert a new patch, etc.

It's just not worth it.

 

[moltonasty]

Looking good I guess, but not sure yet why I really need to upgrade my XB1S when I already have a strong PC..

 

[Christocolus]

For all the people asking about pre-ordering, here's what they said after E3.

Initially, it was reported that Xbox One X needs FCC clearance before going on sale, and hence retailers are not taking up pre-orders at the moment. Microsoft's Albert Penello today revealed the exact reason behind why Xbox One X pre-order hasn't started yet. Speaking to our friend at Gamertag Radio:

"We are a long way away from launch. So I think we wanted to have a really strong E3 around talking about the product and talking about the games. We are going to do pre-orders closer to launch, I think we are going to have some fun stuff to talk about with pre-orders that we haven't talked about now."

http://www.gamepur.com/news/26976-amazon-xbox-one-pre-order.html

Nice.

Yeah read that.

No way it's worth starting that thread on here. It'll turn into a massive shit show with all the same posters coming to downplay it before Y2Kev comes in and locks it.

Agreed.

 

[Lord Panda]

All games:
-faster load times due to faster internal Hdd and much faster memory speed
- 16xAF for all games (including OG Xbox, Xbox 360 BC catalog)

That's pretty sweet.

 

[element]

Begs the question would you have rather MS focused on graphic over 4K. Imagine what an optimized game at 1080p with Xbox One X could look like.

 

[Fredrik]

Looking good I guess, but not sure yet why I really need to upgrade my XB1S when I already have a strong PC..

Comfy couch 4K gaming without hassle.
The best performance in all(?) console games including BC titles.
Play Anywhere (very useful now when the difference between console and PC isn't as big as before)
And UHD blu-ray!
And I have triple screen rig upstairs which I'm on the fence for a 1080ti for. It'll still be awesome!

 

[Hawk269]

Begs the question would you have rather MS focused on graphic over 4K. Imagine what an optimized game at 1080p with Xbox One X could look like.

Luckily, MS is not mandating 4k from devs and the devs have the choice to do exactly what you mention. Seeing Forza 7 in 4k though has me hooked on what 4k can provide, especially being a long time fan of the series and wishing one day we get a Forza mainline title with good/great IQ and based on the direct feed video's that is what I am getting.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

I can't wait for this system to be out and everyone can stop being at each other's throats.

You think it will end?

 

[gamz]

Begs the question would you have rather MS focused on graphic over 4K. Imagine what an optimized game at 1080p with Xbox One X could look like.

It's the devs choice, but don't know how many of us were saying forget 1080P and give me 720P. Don't waste the resources.