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[Azurro]

There's literally no point in arguing when you are literally making stuff up and correlating everything with the idea that suits your bias best and makes you more comfortable.

It would be like trying to discuss with a christian while the cristian tells me that the existence of the sun is proof of the existence of God.

I think you should step back a bit, you care about this too much. I've been watching their videos for years, I am not making up anything, they are who they are.

They tend to downplay Sony and tend to be more pleased with MS, that's just how it is. I'm not saying they are evil fanboys, you can just simply tell from their work what platforms they enjoy more, I don't know why this offends you.

 

[Redlight]

If it bothers you ignore it. It's really that simple.

Why not take your own advice about DF? If they bother you, ignore them and spare the rest of us.

 

[FrankWza]

isnt ds remake made by blue point and not from Software?

also, in my opinion, previous PlayStation launches had strong lineups (motor storm, killzone, resistance etc.) with new ip’s etc.

It’s a souls game. And yes bluepoint did a phenomenal job turning their game into a true next gen experience. But it’s a souls game and it’s day 1. The examples you gave are split over 2 PS launches. New ip is beside the point. The point ofnew generations is to improve upon last generation. Progress. Usually, it takes developers a year to begin to harness the power of a new console. Here, we’re getting 2 launch day games that, while probably not pushing the PS5 to its limits, are still above what we’ve come to expect technologically from launch day or even launch window games. Day 1

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Switchyboii

This legitimately cracked me up way more than I expected

 

[Redlight]

Conspiracy? It's pretty well known since the PS3/Xbox 360 days, slight improvement in performance or resolution would be talked very favourably towards the 360, while when the reverse situation arrived, where PS4 being particularly stronger than Xbox One by a larger margin, it was swept a bit under the rug.

I mean, they are big fans of the PC and MS has invited them to unveil the Xbox One X, you don't think they have a very good working relationship with MS? Leadbetter has always been a fan of them and kinda holds his biases back a bit, which can't be said about the german guy. The most genuine and unbiased person there is John imo, but if we are talking about DF being Richard's baby, then yeah, it's pretty biased towards MS.

It's not 'well known' outside of the imaginations of the most hardcore Sony fans. They report positives and negatives fairly for every console. You just break out in hives if they say anything that isn't ragingly pro-Sony.

That's your problem, not theirs.

 

[DonJimbo]

Cerny strikes again.

Very excited to see the differences in multiplat performance.

He is so much better than Crazy Ken for the Brand PS4 and the VITA were so much better designed than the exotic PS3
I hope he will continue his amazing work for many years

 

[Bojanglez]

Ok. Which devs? Did he say? Sony first party devs maybe? No wonder then.
I remember when Jason Schreier said something similar:

Schreier: Multiple Devs Are Telling Me PS5 Is Superior to Xbox Series X in Several Ways Despite Spec

Despite Xbox Series X's apparently higher specifications, multiple developers are reportedly saying PS5 is superior in several ways.

wccftech.com

So superior. And so good.

But in which way? Can’t say!
who said it? Can’t say!

very believable. Same as believing in generations.
I want the RECEIPTS please.

Wanting receipts applies to both consoles presumably? There is no evidence yet that the XSX performs better than the PS5 at this point either.

Time will tell, and I'm pretty sure both will have their stronger areas, but ultimately the gap won't be as big as some are hoping.

 

[FunkMiller]

Wanting receipts applies to both consoles presumably? There is no evidence yet that the XSX performs better than the PS5 at this point either.

Time will tell, and I'm pretty sure both will have their stronger areas, but ultimately the gap won't be as big as some are hoping.

The absolute healthiest thing for everyone will be if the two consoles are pretty much on a par with one another - which is the most probable outcome.

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

Sounds like the secret sauce from 2013.

 

[El Pistolero]

Really? Sony fans invent a conspiracy in which DF favours MS and attacks Sony, but I'm the sensitive one for pointing out the ridiculousness of that cancel like mentality of Sony fans?

Amazing.

Conspiracies are plotted in the dark and, contrary to the way you are using the term, unbeknown but to the participants, if only for a time. What we have here is a clear case of favouritism, rooted in a long and fruitful relationship between the outlet and their benefactor, aka Microsoft. It could not be labeled as a conspiracy because the tendencies are CLEARLY DISPLAYED. Your pitiful defence is, of course, pretty understandable...It is just unfounded. You are wrong in assuming that DF destroyed the Xbox One. It did point out the differences between the consoles in terms of resolution and the like, yes, but that is to be expected. What is your point? That for them to be partial, they would have had to LIE about data easily verifiable by thousands of people on the internet? That is a ridiculous implication! ...To check what some of us are trying to drive home, you may dig up the lovely spin campaign that your beloved Richard engaged in when the Xbox One and the PS4 specs were revealed, for example; How the mighty Lion Heart painted a picture of the former, forged mainly by the PR drivel that Papa MS fed him like the good toddler that he is.

The simple fact that these guys get invited by MS regularly, to the point that they were sworn to secrecy on the subject of the Series S, should be enough to prove the case. It is in the overzealous enthusiasm for anything Xbox related, darling, and in the sheer skepticism and questioning that Sony -guilty of killing Sega in the eyes of some, and of not being a gentle patron- gets at every corner: Cerny indicated that the Raytracing is hardware based, you may remember, and yet, Mr.Alex, Xbox discord official resident, considered intelligent to spend a big chunk of time circulating FUD about it.

To not see this, you either are ignorant about the whole output of the site, or high on the “I trust in Phil” crack...I know that you love sniffing his picture.

 

[Krisprolls]

It's not 'well known' outside of the imaginations of the most hardcore Sony fans. They report positives and negatives fairly for every console. You just break out in hives if they say anything that isn't ragingly pro-Sony.

That's your problem, not theirs.

Everybody knows DF is MS biased, it's been like that since PS3 days... John is the exception though.

Alex is on the infamous Xbox discord with the guys who plan anti PS5 fud all day ffs...

 

[Knitted Knight]

Why not take your own advice about DF? If they bother you, ignore them and spare the rest of us.

Because my advice doesn't apply. I know what they are, and watch them for what they're. The discussions they foster within the greater hardcore gaming community, as do NxGamer and others is crucial - it just so happens that a lot of bad weeds (BS) needs to be cut first before you get to the real fruit. They're inseparably part of the mix - unless the group disbands and disappears (which looking at that video it won't).

Can't spare you. But I did hint at that ignore. You can spare yourself.

 

[regawdless]

I expect it to be a lot more boring than most people might think. The actual power gap between the PS5 and Series X is closer than any PS/Xbox generation so far.

With Xbox having the raw power advantage, it's important for Sony to create a good and easy to use environment for the devs.

Devs won't have a lot of resources to squeeze out every bit of performance while developing for so many different platforms and HW configurations, that this is going to be an important factor - excluding exclusive games of course.

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

Alex is on the infamous Xbox discord with the guys who plan anti PS5 fud all day ffs...

lol does that discord server even exist? Sounds like a boogeyman story Sony fanboys tell themselves around the campfire at night.

 

[CrysisFreak]

lol does that discord server even exist? Sounds like a boogeyman story Sony fanboys tell themselves around the campfire at night.

Mate.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Sounds like the secret sauce from 2013.

Except this time, it's real

 

[Jon Neu]

lol does that discord server even exist? Sounds like a boogeyman story Sony fanboys tell themselves around the campfire at night.

Sometimes GAF is just a big Sony fanboys circlejerk telling each other what they want to hear and patting themselves in the back.

 

[Hendrick's]

This thread reeks of desperation.

Most threads lately do.

 

[PaintTinJr]

They're shills, they're not shills. Which narrative are we running with today?

How's about this narrative?

Spoiler

OBI-WAN
It's been my experience that
Senators are only focused on
pleasing those who fund their
campaigns... and they are more
than willing to forget the
niceties of democracy to get those
funds.

ANAKIN
Not another lecture, Master. Not
on the economics of politics....
It's too early in the morning... and
besides, you're generalising. The
Chancellor doesn't appear to
be corrupt.

OBI-WAN
Palpatine's a politician, I've
observed that he is very clever at
following the passions and
prejudices of the Senators.

ANAKIN
I think he is a good man. My
instincts are very positive
about...

 

[deriks]

BuT tHeY'rE mIcRoSoFt BiAs

 

[digoutyoursoul]

lol does that discord server even exist? Sounds like a boogeyman story Sony fanboys tell themselves around the campfire at night.

In the insane world of internetz, I doubt a few groups dedicated to getting a narrative spread is unrealistic. All these brands likely have them. It’s a great manipulation tool and there’s never a shortage of phoneys and sell outs.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Sounds like the differences between 3rd party games will be minimal.

 

[Zathalus]

I am not talking out of my rear, try to be civil and polite. Here is a capture from XSX DF analysis. Whats made up about it ?

Res is 1800p

This means nothing. Because of four simple reasons:

1. The game is running in a BC mode, some things are going to be emulated and this always comes with a performance cost and overhead.
2. The game is not taking advantage of the architectural advantages RDNA 2 offers over GCN.
3. The game was designed around a specific set of hardware and assumptions, throwing more performance at it offers no guarantee of perfect scaling. A perfect example of this is the first Crysis.
4. Lastly, the game uses none of the new RDNA 2 features, not architect improvements as point 2, I'm referring to new things such as FP16, VRS, Mesh shading, and SFS.

You cannot assume anything of next-gen performance based on previous-gen emulation. This goes for both consoles.

 

[MonarchJT]

Cerny strikes again.

Very excited to see the differences in multiplat performance.

I'm more than sure devs simply refer to ease of development and loading times. technically there is nothing else in the console that can be better than on the xsx

 

[Jon Neu]

In the insane world of internetz, I doubt a few groups dedicated to getting a narrative spread is unrealistic. All these brands likely have them. It’s a great manipulation tool and there’s never a shortage of phoneys and sell outs.

Sure, but it's funny because it's like the Sony fan version of "The russians hacked the elections!!1!".

 

[Andodalf]

Wanting receipts applies to both consoles presumably? There is no evidence yet that the XSX performs better than the PS5 at this point either.

Time will tell, and I'm pretty sure both will have their stronger areas, but ultimately the gap won't be as big as some are hoping.

Lol yes there is evidence that one will be better. We know the Specs. On the same Arch, the GPU with better raw rasterization performance is just going to be objectively better. We don’t know the size of the gap for sure, but don’t pretend like it’s actually a tossup.

 

[Azurro]

Sure, but it's funny because it's like the Sony fan version of "The russians hacked the elections!!1!".

Man, can I ask you why you care so much? They are biased towards MS, even from the RE5 days and it's fine, that's who they are and you watch them with that in mind.

Why do you get annoyed? It's not new.

 

[The Hamburglar]

Sure, but it's funny because it's like the Sony fan version of "The russians hacked the elections!!1!".

Someone replied to your nonsense yet you didnt respond only with carrying on ‘ Sony fans blah blah’.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I love the work DF does, and they're probably the most credible source out there for technical analysis. I can't wait to see a more deep and accurate analysis from them of both PS5, XSX and XSS when the NDA drops.

 

[theddub]

If he is saying "surprised", pleasantly, then does he believe people have, in general and in terms of hardware, low expectations of it to begin with ?

 

[Jon Neu]

Man, can I ask you why you care so much?

Seems to me you are the one so preocuppied with installing the narrative that DF have a MS bias that somehow you can't stop quoting me to repeat the same Jehova's witness stuff over and over again.

We got it: you and the rest of Sony fans believe DF is pro MS and anti Sony because that makes you all feel better. You don't need to repeat it ad nauseam everytime someone doubts your claims.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Seems to me you are the one so preocuppied with installing the narrative that DF have a MS bias that somehow you can't stop quoting me to repeat the same Jehova's witness stuff over and over again.

We got it: you and the rest of Sony fans believe DF is pro MS and anti Sony because that makes you all feel better. You don't need to repeat it ad nauseam everytime someone doubts your claims.

As long as mild criticism with the hush all positive outlook of something so embarrassing that caused MS to delay their long awaited launch title (Halo: Infinite) is seen as proof as DF “destroyed” XSX and thus it is proof they are all of them fully impartial... you first I guess .

 

[Concern]

This thread went as expected.

If you hate df so much, why keep bumping this thread?

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm more than sure devs simply refer to ease of development and loading times. technically there is nothing else in the console that can be better than on the xsx

Aside from everything else in the GPU that is shared and not part of the CU’s and is the same across both consoles just running a LOT faster and ease of development (see single unified RAM pool, Sam bandwidth to access it all), Geometry Engine customisations and place in the rendering pipeline, etc... let alone that when you are talking about using the SSD as virtual memory having faster throughout, lower latency, and lower CPU overhead seems likely and a good feature beyond just “loading things quickly”.

 

[reinking]

Digital Foundry are miles better then the hacks that consume the gaming media and press. Like night and day difference! Do they have a favourite...maybe. is it in your face? Not really. Is their content detailed, professional and interesting? Certainly. Will I stop answering my own questions in this post? Hopefully!

The problem, at least around here, is that the fact that someone can like something about two different consoles gets lost on some people. For some reason if something positive is said about one it has to mean something negative about the other.

 

[Concern]

The problem, at least around here, is that the fact that someone can like something about two different consoles gets lost on some people. For some reason if something positive is said about one it has to mean something negative about the other.

This 10000000000000000000%


People can hate you and everything you post. But the moment you post something that's positive about their plastic box, its like they're your bff lol.

 

[Jon Neu]

As long as mild criticism with the hush all positive outlook of something so embarrassing that caused MS to delay their long awaited launch title (Halo: Infinite) is seen as proof as DF “destroyed” XSX and thus it is proof they are all of them fully impartial... you first I guess .

DF criticizing and mocking MS and the Xbox One is proof that they are MS shills because they didn’t critizice it enough in the eyes of Sony fanboys. Undeniable revelation.

 

[geordiemp]

This means nothing. Because of four simple reasons:

1. The game is running in a BC mode, some things are going to be emulated and this always comes with a performance cost and overhead.
2. The game is not taking advantage of the architectural advantages RDNA 2 offers over GCN.
3. The game was designed around a specific set of hardware and assumptions, throwing more performance at it offers no guarantee of perfect scaling. A perfect example of this is the first Crysis.
4. Lastly, the game uses none of the new RDNA 2 features, not architect improvements as point 2, I'm referring to new things such as FP16, VRS, Mesh shading, and SFS.

You cannot assume anything of next-gen performance based on previous-gen emulation. This goes for both consoles.

1. Apis interface between the hardware and the game code.

Are you saying the DX apis dont perform as well on XSX using game code from last gen ? I dont buy it.

2. The hardware architectural advantages will be used unless apis dont use them, so no.

Features yes, such as VRS or mesh shading, but it should be performing as expected and was lower than expected.

3. The game is designed around DX apis not the hardware, go to point 1.

4. THis is same for both consoles, performance saving measures such as VRS, does not negate the comparison using the feature set for last gen

Summary, either the abstract apis in XSX are not performant as expected, or the 52 CU / TF scaling is not linear to performance.

The reason DF chose those titles were that they were DX apis and had no caps in frame rate.

This is what a retired Dev said on this subject

 

[Azurro]

Seems to me you are the one so preocuppied with installing the narrative that DF have a MS bias that somehow you can't stop quoting me to repeat the same Jehova's witness stuff over and over again.

We got it: you and the rest of Sony fans believe DF is pro MS and anti Sony because that makes you all feel better. You don't need to repeat it ad nauseam everytime someone doubts your claims.

Ok, I'll give you a very good example. Take the latest Halo showing. Everyone and I mean, absolutely everyone was tearing MS a new one for showing a game that looked absolutely terrible.

Can I ask you, can you describe DF's reaction to the video? Wasn't it Alex just going "ok, it looks a little flat but it wouldn't be so bad if the sun was in a different position. Maybe ray tracing will fix it.". That was pretty blatant, wasn't it?

What other proof do you need?

 

[LordOfChaos]

What'd I do?

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

Some people overlook the amount of extra dedicated hardware that's in the PS5 to relieve the CPU from some duties plus making the SSD speed even faster, and you get a system that punches well above it's TF weight. But it's done specifically from additional dedicated hardware.

Xbox also has such Hardware... Series X hardware is stronger. Why are people still trying?

 

[MonarchJT]

Aside from everything else in the GPU that is shared and not part of the CU’s and is the same across both consoles just running a LOT faster and ease of development (see single unified RAM pool, Sam bandwidth to access it all), Geometry Engine customisations and place in the rendering pipeline, etc... let alone that when you are talking about using the SSD as virtual memory having faster throughout, lower latency, and lower CPU overhead seems likely and a good feature beyond just “loading things quickly”.

well, after yesterday finding the fab code corresponding to Oberon we know enough about the ps5 right ?. The specs speak for themselves one has better cpu gpu and bw. both would be able to use the SSD as memory (I think ms was referring precisely to this with its "100gb immediately available") I don't think any third party ever will. still we wait for confirmations on vrs mesh shader ml and everything else no? we will see in the first year benches.

 

[Sid Of Bee]

Some people overlook the amount of extra dedicated hardware that's in the PS5 to relieve the CPU from some duties plus making the SSD speed even faster, and you get a system that punches well above it's TF weight. But it's done specifically from additional dedicated hardware.

"Secret Sauce" lol

 

[geordiemp]

Xbox also has such Hardware... Series X hardware is stronger. Why are people still trying?

How is XSX hardware stronger, we have not seen it, even in the DF XSX video on performance.

Tell us.

 

[Stuart360]

How is XSX hardware stronger, we have not seen it, even in the DF XSX video on performance.

Tell us.

Dude just let it go.

 

[01011001]

How is XSX hardware stronger, we have not seen it, even in the DF XSX video on performance.

Tell us.

we literally have hardware specs...

 

[ExKing]

I dom't want to hear about biased developers. I remember those devs saying the PS5 was more powerful, now we know the truth...

I want to see DF testing the PS5, not devs talk without proof.

 

[Panajev2001a]

DF criticizing and mocking MS and the Xbox One is proof that they are MS shills because they didn’t critizice it enough in the eyes of Sony fanboys. Undeniable revelation.

Sure, keep telling yourself that buddy .
If that is heavy criticism and mocking well, can understand why you feel this is SonyGAF I guess .

 

[Astral Dog]

Of course, i don't believe any developer will have a problem with either PS5 or XSX, they work well and are quite powerful,there is the clockspeed thing developers may have to adjust to but its nowhere like,the Cell cpu or the PS2.

Its all good but the XSS wich is still an enigma

 

[NXGamer]

We haven't actually had hands on with the PS5 yet, but just talking to developers... I think people will be surprised in a good way. [I have been] hearing some good things about that PS5.




A bit vague but it's hard not to read this like doing better than its numerical grunt. What comes to mind is Sony (correctly) saying that flops are just a paper calculation of CUs, it's ALUs * 2 * clock speed, but other things on the die scale with clock speed, caches, buffers, command processors, etc, plus API differences and so on.

Not to start an "argument" here, but did DF, John, someone from them also say that PS5 and SX were going to be $600 OR MORE recently?

That said, I have spoken to Devs with both consoles and they also prefer the PS5 and say it is further along in SDK than Xbox, AGAIN. (Not my words, theirs).

I have also some other bits I have been told and eluded to in regards to API's Ray Tracing implementation, SFS etc which sounds like it is not as ready as the hardware just yet.

Looking forward to digging into the launch games VERY SOON.