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[Glass Rebel]

I'm not talking about combat mechanics, I'm talking about general appeal. Nothing about the way that game presented itself outside of a trailer really lent itself to a gigantic fan-base.

I mean, have there been any other obvious examples of character-action games selling millions that I'm missing, here? It seems like DMC4 was the last one.

I wouldn't consider God of War or Dante's Inferno in the same genre, but if you'd like to debate that, go ahead.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. It didn't have general appeal but it still sold a lot but then somehow DmC was affected by it? After 4 years?

God of War and Dante's Inferno walk a very thin line between character-action and action-adventure, DmC tried to move closer to that line and it failed.

 

[PeterVenkman]

Its seriously painfull to have any kind of conversation in a DmC related thread. The outcome is always the same.
Its my fault though. I keep comming back...but I think I'm done now.

So other people express their opinions that are contrary to yours. And then you agree that they are rabid? Last I checked these "rabid" fans weren't the ones touting DmC's factual subtlety.

Please do be done. For all of us. You are embarrassing yourself. There are plenty of DmC fans who don't behave like this.

 

[Dahbomb]

By accessible, I don't necessarily mean easy to succeed. If I recall correctly, DMC4 even had an auto-combo system that made it super-easy to get into.

Yeah I don't know what you mean by accessible here. You can mash your way through DMC4 if you wanted.

Its seriously painfull to have any kind of conversation in a DmC related thread. The outcome is always the same.

It's about as painful as you writing bad hyperbolic statements about the game while trying to shit on the previous games and claiming them as fact.

 

[TheSeks]

Yup. There are people who actually could stomach the gargantuan disasters that were Enslaved and Heavenly Sword. And, hey, that's neat - at least they were their own IPs and they never had any foundation but shit gameplay to begin with.

But then you take Devil May Cry, the king of all action game series with the greatest action game combat of all time and give it to Ninja Theory... they of Heavenly Sword fame? And, well, the result is what it is: a drastically inferior combat system, a garbage destroyed style system and their talent as "storymakers" was pointless since the game continues to fine tradition of being irreverent crap.

They should have just made it an original IP.

Surely you mean "Ninja Gaiden: Black," right Ami? Devil May Cry was always second fiddle to that game. Now, NG2 and Ninja Garbage 3... I can understand DMC being above those two... but NG:Black? No. Just... no. NG:B is the pinnacle of the genre.

 

[demidar]

He's still op as fuck. Hell, I know people who finished the game by spamming stinger.

Were they playing easy? lol.

I guess I can see that but that sounds boring as fuck, and I don't that would fly on higher difficulties or when facing Chimera who's off the ground most of the time.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. It didn't have general appeal but it still sold a lot but then somehow DmC was affected by it? After 4 years?

God of War and Dante's Inferno walk a very thin line between character-action and action-adventure, DmC tried to move closer to that line and it failed.

I'm just saying, if you look at general sales for the genre, it seems like it's dropped across the board. It suggests to me that larger audiences aren't really into these sort of skill-based action games. I'm not saying DmC didn't shoot itself in the foot with the hardcore fans along the way, but I'd be surprised if an imaginary DMC5 wouldn't have found itself in the same situation.

I'm not really basing this on any hard data. I'd love for someone to tell me how wrong I am.

 

[rvy]

Were they playing easy? lol.

I guess I can see that but that sounds boring as fuck, and I don't that would fly on higher difficulties or when facing Chimera who's off the ground most of the time.

Devil Hunter, I think.

 

[Mango Positive]

I never played the originals because I tend to stay away from hack & slash games, but I fucking love the new one in 60 FPS with all details set to high. The game is fantastic. The story is campy, the fighting is great, plenty of secrets and challenges and I feel sorry for people who can't get into it because of baggage they brought with them from the originals. Your losses, dudes. I suppose it's also the loss of the developers who put a shit ton of work into it, but fuck those guys, right?

 

[Ceebs]

I am one of those people who pays zero attention to these character action games and actually dislikes most of the highly revered ones I have tried (Hated the original DMC and Bayonetta for example) but picked up the PC version of this since there was nothing else to really play.

I really enjoyed it from start to finish. Loved pretty much everything about it. It is not going to convert me to this genre of games, but I would gladly play a sequel to this game.

 

[PeterVenkman]

I never played the originals because I tend to stay away from hack & slash games, but I fucking love the new one in 60 FPS with all details set to high. The game is fantastic. The story is campy, the fighting is great, plenty of secrets and challenges and I feel sorry for people who can't get into it because of baggage they brought with them from the originals. Your losses, dudes. I suppose it's also the loss of the developers who put a shit ton of work into it, but fuck those guys, right?

No, it's your "losses , dudes". The originals are beautiful , and DMC4 on the PC at 60fps looks GREAT. MT Framework is hot shit.

I'm sorry but i'm not going to support a Dev team that made a game i don't like. Do you support every game out there just to keep the devs fed? You dropped the ball with THQ, should have bought more Darksiders bro.

 

[demidar]

Devil Hunter, I think.

Dang that's a shame. The DMC games are the epitome of "get out what you put in". I'm working my way through Bloody Palace in DMC4 right now and I almost killed Dante on floor 101, 2 sections of life left. I kinda panicked when he started opening Pandora's Box but I won't make the same mistake again when I get back there.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I'm just saying, if you look at general sales for the genre, it seems like it's dropped across the board. It suggests to me that larger audiences aren't really into these sort of skill-based action games. I'm not saying DmC didn't shoot itself in the foot with the hardcore fans along the way, but I'd be surprised if an imaginary DMC5 wouldn't have found itself in the same situation.

I'm not really basing this on any hard data. I'd love for someone to tell me how wrong I am.

I actually replied to a similar topic earlier:

Fact is, the series recovered even from DMC2 and DMC4 was miles above that. DMC4 sold over double of DMC3: Dante's Awakening (can't find SE numbers) and laid an excellent framework for a sequel but it took Capcom over 4 years to follow up on that. I'm not saying DMC5 would have sold buckets but they've constantly ignored their fanbase's wishes and mishandled the franchise. They had a lot open to them, continue with Nero, go back to Dante, try a spin-off with Vergil or even a prequel with Sparda. But they chose Ninja Theory. Now I don't know what Capcom's reasoning was and I don't wish ill on them or Ninja Theory but they had it coming.

The issue surrounding DmC isn't just that it isn't DMC5, it's Capcom's total neglect of the franchise and its fanbase.

 

[keltickennedy]

I liked the new DmC but would really want Capcom to go back to basics with the original Dante. Sorry...no Nero either. Hopefully with the sales they might do that. I doubt it though.

The original concept should of been utilized way more I think. I mean...it's about a half-demon who owns a business where he gets hired to go after paranormal and demonic shit. They could of separated the missions into different contracts Dante would get that would of course lead to an overall focal point in the story. Pretty much how they did it in the anime.

Capcom loves charging for their DLC, make new DLC contract missions that Dante would get in his shop. JACKPOT.

Apologizes for the rant. I should save it for some sort of DMC fan-fic site. lol.

 

[yurinka]

The feel of 2 million copies sold

 

[MYE]

I like the game too but subtle it is not and neither is it an adult oriented game.

There are more examples but it gets into spoiler territory.

So other people express their opinions that are contrary to yours. And then you agree that they are rabid? Last I checked these "rabid" fans weren't the ones touting DmC's factual subtlety.

Please do be done. For all of us. You are embarrassing yourself. There are plenty of DmC fans who don't behave like this.

Struggling to think of something subtle in DmC's narrative and I actually liked the game.
I can name countless examples of the opposite but im sure MYE would say Im cherrypicking.

I can unpack the subtleties of it if you missed out on them- maybe that's why you thought the dialogue was awful?
It would have avoided this entire situation, if DmC wasn't DMC.

So i'm not allowed to pick scenes that aren't subtle to talk about my opinion about DmC being not subtle? Yeah, okay man. You've lost it (if you ever had it).

Holy shit.....

Here is what I said:

For better or for worse this is factually a more realistic, subtle and "adult" version of the DmC universe, regardless of how many cock jokes they put in it.

Did I say it was subtle? Did I say it was adult? Did I say it was realistic?
Or did i say it was MORE of all those things when compared to DMC?

Seriously, there is no point in going on. There is some seriously deep hate surrounding this game, its developer and anything positive sounding said about it.

 

[demidar]

Dante does not look good in anime form.

 

[Fake Charlemagne]

"Hey guys remember those games you guys enjoyed (and a decent sized fanbase really, really got really into)? They were fucking garbage, they weren't exactly hitting where we wanted them to hit. So we have given them to the ALL STARS Ninja Theory to make them more modernized, more visceral. They stripped down the combat significantly, changed shit up in a way that looks really bad (added SICK automated platforming) but DON'T WORRY it still has that DMC DNA and the feel of combat designed around 60fps."

-Capcom PR

Basically this. It's a very weird feeling to basically have a dev tell you that you're wrong for liking what you like. What's even more weird is that same dev then trying to dictate what you'll like next, and painting you as wrong or whiny if you disagree.

My main problem with the game was never the character redesigns, it was the shift in tone. I can't have fun with a game that doesn't have fun with itself. The game smacks you over the head with themes of torture and abuse, then wants you to get crazy and style on fools for your (easy) SSS rank. How am I supposed to get into that?

 

[Conflict NZ]

By far the best game in the series, a shame it isn't selling well.

 

[Retro_]

Did I say it was subtle? Did I say it was adult? Did I say it was realistic?
Or did i say it was MORE of all those things when compared to DMC?

Seriously, there is no point in going on. There is some seriously deep hate surrounding this game, its developer and anything positive sounding said about it.

I think the part people are hung up on is you declaring your opinion as "factually" correct.

Which completely opens you up to be debated like this

if you didn't want to have this argument should be more careful about the language you use

 

[PeterVenkman]

Holy shit.....

Here is what I said:



Did I say it was subtle? Did I say it was adult? Did I say it was realistic?
Or did i say it was MORE of all those things when compared to DMC?

Seriously, there is no point in going on. There is some seriously deep hate surrounding this game, its developer and anything positive sounding said about it.

How can something be "more subtle" and not also be "subtle". People disagree with you. I think it is less subtle than DMC. You got called out man, deal.

I hate piss poor fan generalizations more than this game. It's true, really.

Also this:

I think the part people are hung up on is you declaring your opinion as "factually" correct.

 

[Gbraga]

Are we still in the Dante subject? I'll say that I really liked the new Dante, and even kinda liked Vergil (though I expect a lot more for his DLC), but I thought Kat was completely pointless.

Eva's design is amazing though, so beautiful <3

 

[SoulPlaya]

Surely you mean "Ninja Gaiden: Black," right Ami? Devil May Cry was always second fiddle to that game. Now, NG2 and Ninja Garbage 3... I can understand DMC being above those two... but NG:Black? No. Just... no. NG:B is the pinnacle of the genre.

Definitely.

 

[Lostconfused]

A lot of myths have been made around DMC. DMC has never been this inaccessible game. It got a bad rep of this when DMC3 NA version came out and journalists gave up on the 2nd or 3rd missions of the game. The Souls game are way more inaccessible than any DMC game.

I'll be honest. I didn't make it past Agni and Rudra the first time I played DMC3 when it came out. Heck I stayed away from DMC3 because of how hard that fight was for me at the time. Had a lot of fun with DMC4 though. Maybe I didn't think of it like that at the time, but I really like DMC4.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Basically this. It's a very weird feeling to basically have a dev tell you that you're wrong for liking what you like. What's even more weird is that same dev then trying to dictate what you'll like next, and painting you as wrong or whiny if you disagree.

My main problem with the game was never the character redesigns, it was the shift in tone. I can't have fun with a game that doesn't have fun with itself. The game smacks you over the head with themes of torture and abuse, then wants you to get crazy and style on fools for your (easy) SSS rank. How am I supposed to get into that?

It doesn't help that game journos came across as blatant PR mouthpieces during the entire development of this game, furiously shitting on fans who doubted its new direction.

 

[rvy]

I'll be honest. I didn't make it past Agni and Rudra the first time I played DMC3 when it came out. Heck I stayed away from DMC3 because of how hard that fight was for me at the time. Had a lot of fun with DMC4 though. Maybe I didn't think of it like that at the time, but I really like DMC4.

People should use easier difficulty settings if they can't get past something. Seriously. The settings are there to be used.

 

[polyh3dron]

I like the game, well at least the PC version that runs at 60FPS.

Couldn't stand it at 30FPS on consoles.

 

[GuardianE]

Are we still in the Dante subject? I'll say that I really liked the new Dante, and even kinda liked Vergil (though I expect a lot more for his DLC), but I thought Kat was completely pointless.

Eva's design is amazing though, so beautiful <3

Disliked Dante's design. Vergil's design was okay aside from that awful hat, but they turned him into a giant wuss. Kat was alright, but nothing special. Eva was whatever.

Surely you mean "Ninja Gaiden: Black," right Ami? Devil May Cry was always second fiddle to that game. Now, NG2 and Ninja Garbage 3... I can understand DMC being above those two... but NG:Black? No. Just... no. NG:B is the pinnacle of the genre.

NG v. DMC. The two series are simply too different to compare to each other. They've both made huge strides in evolving the genre, but any direct comparisons are meaningless, in my opinion. You'll simply prefer one over the other.

 

[demidar]

People should use easier difficulty settings if they can't get past something. Seriously. The settings are there to be used.

I confess that I used Easy Automatic when I first played DMC1. The shame is unbearable!

 

[PeterVenkman]

I confess that I used Easy Automatic when I first played DMC1. The shame is unbearable!

I almost died laughing when DMC3 threw me easy mode after i died enough. So funny.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Worst characters in DmC? Sparda and Vergil. Imagine that.

 

[Veelk]

Did I say it was realistic?

Um...

This Dante is just a genuinly cool, memorable character. Felt real.

 

[Kusagari]

I still lol at Capcom making American normal Japanese hard in DMC3.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

I still lol at Capcom making American normal Japanese hard in DMC3.

It was a good move, I believe they should have kept doing that to be honest.

 

[Lostconfused]

People should use easier difficulty settings if they can't get past something. Seriously. The settings are there to be used.

Sometimes you don't want to admit you are bad at something. But seriously starting the level over again sucked.

 

[MYE]

I think the part people are hung up on is you declaring your opinion as "factually" correct.

Which completely opens you up to be debated like this

I never thought that saying DmC is a more "serious" and "adult" toned take on the DMC universe was so controversial or even something so clearly up for debate.
Specially considering that I wasnt using those terms as either a general pro or con, and was instead just comparing it to (what I thought was) the accepted light-hearted/cheesy/cartoony nature of old DMC.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe DMC is more serious and adult.

 

[Amir0x]

Surely you mean "Ninja Gaiden: Black," right Ami? Devil May Cry was always second fiddle to that game. Now, NG2 and Ninja Garbage 3... I can understand DMC being above those two... but NG:Black? No. Just... no. NG:B is the pinnacle of the genre.

no I don't. I have respect for Ninja Gaiden Black, it's a good game, but the flexibility and depth of DMC3/DMC4 will always be just the pinnacle of the genre. NGB is far more dial-a-combo and more stringent as a result; less room for creativity in approach.

 

[Skilletor]

NG v. DMC. The two series are simply too different to compare to each other. They've both made huge strides in evolving the genre, but any direct comparisons are meaningless, in my opinion. You'll simply prefer one over the other.

Yup.

 

[MYE]

Um...

Do you know the concept of "I'm buying it?" Its when something is pulled off and feels genuine regardless of how subtle or over the top it is.

How can something be "more subtle" and not also be "subtle". People disagree with you. I think it is less subtle than DMC. You got called out man, deal.

I hate piss poor fan generalizations more than this game. It's true, really.

I dont remember pointing out names and I even mentioned that not all DMC fans are like this. But you seem personally offended for some reason

 

[call_kotaku]

I'm just saying, if you look at general sales for the genre, it seems like it's dropped across the board. It suggests to me that larger audiences aren't really into these sort of skill-based action games. I'm not saying DmC didn't shoot itself in the foot with the hardcore fans along the way, but I'd be surprised if an imaginary DMC5 wouldn't have found itself in the same situation.

I'm not really basing this on any hard data. I'd love for someone to tell me how wrong I am.

I don't doubt that to be the case, but DmC proves that just making it easier doesn't automatically translate to better sales, or that God of War sold twice as much as DMC4 because it was half as hard.

The success of the souls games and indie titles like Super Meat Boy shows there's a growing market for challenging games, I'd say. If a game markets itself as a test of gamer fortitude rather than an interactive movie, I think it can still be poised to do well despite its difficulty.

 

[Prinny]

Capcom released 3 RE last year, I don't see why they can't make both DMC5 and DmC2.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

I don't doubt that to be the case, but DmC proves that just making it easier doesn't automatically translate to better sales, or that God of War sold twice as much as DMC4 because it was half as hard.

The success of the souls games and indie titles like Super Meat Boy shows there's a growing market for challenging games, I'd say. If a game markets itself as a test of gamer fortitude rather than an interactive movie, I think it can still be poised to do well despite its difficulty.

The series should show some balls, come back with a DMC5 with a harder normal mode than DMC3 vanilla.

 

[demidar]

I never thought that saying DmC is a more "serious" and "adult" toned take on the DMC universe was so controversial or even something so clearly up for debate.
Specially considering that I wasnt using those terms as either a general pro or con, and was instead just comparing it to (what I thought was) the accepted light-hearted/cheesy/cartoony nature of old DMC.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe DMC is more serious and adult.

Well when you're practically a demigod a little arrogance and cheese goes a long way. Dante became so powerful nothing really phases him, leading to him having such a playful and cheese-ridden personality. He doesn't really care if someone laughs at his lameness because he knows how awesome he really is when it counts. That's how I see it anyway, being hyper serious ain't that fun because there's nothing that could possibly worry him.

 

[Veelk]

Do you know the concept of "I'm buying it?" Its when something is pulled off and feels genuine regardless of how subtle or over the top it is.

Your problem is that you haven't defined what 'real' or 'realistic' means here and how it's distinct from genuine and what DMC3 dante lacks in this regard to achieve that realism and genuineness. I have no idea what the fuck you mean when you say DmC dante feels genuine or how that differentiates him from feeling realistic or unrealistic.

Explain yourself or stop shitting up the thread already.

Edit: Explain 'subtle' and 'adult' while your at it too.

 

[sleepykyo]

I actually replied to a similar topic earlier:



The issue surrounding DmC isn't just that it isn't DMC5, it's Capcom's total neglect of the franchise and its fanbase.

But his point was even a proper DMC5 would have sold less than DMC4, and I agree. Weird timing though, seems like next gen would have been the proper time to reboot. NT could have had the same responsive controls as DMC4 while keeping their love for pretty graphics on the newer consoles, and consumers tend to be more responsive to new titles early in gen (according to EA at least).

Capcom released 3 RE last year, I don't see why they can't make both DMC5 and DmC2.

I don't DMC is quite in the same league (popularity wise) as RE. And it seems it won't be now (still think it is a bit too early to call).

 

[PeterVenkman]

Do you know the concept of "I'm buying it?" Its when something is pulled off and feels genuine regardless of how subtle or over the top it is.



I dont remember pointing out names and I even mentioned that not all DMC fans are like this. But you seem personally offended for some reason

You agreed with a post mentioning rabid DMC fans. So what if you didn't mention specific names? It's still ridiculous. You've been posting your opinion as fact for the past few pages, and I find it pretty sad. You still don't even realize it. Drop it already, you've alrady admitted how much pain these nameless haters are causing you.

See this:

Explain yourself or stop shitting up the thread already.

Edit: Explain 'subtle' and 'adult' while your at it too.

Couldn't have said it better

 

[Gbraga]

Disliked Dante's design. Vergil's design was okay aside from that awful hat, but they turned him into a giant wuss. Kat was alright, but nothing special. Eva was whatever.

The fedora was horrible indeed.

I actually like Dante's design, but I was talking about the character, I think he's really likeable.

 

[d0c_zaius]

game needed exciting enemies to fight against, and platforming that didn't involve mixing together 3 things (blue hook, red hook angel jump).

Turned out better than I thought it would though.

 

[GuardianE]

The fedora was horrible indeed.

I actually like Dante's design, but I was talking about the character, I think he's really likeable.

I think his personality switches too quickly for my tastes. They tried to make him a more realistic character, but I think it falls flat. And his progression feels inconsistent, as though they shot all of the "Dante Douche" and "Dante Sensitive" scenes separately, but then put those scenes in a blender.

 

[Weenerz]

I really enjoyed playing through this game. Would buy another.

 

[MYE]

So your saying that DmC Dante was realistic then....

Your problem is that you haven't defined what 'real' or 'realistic' means here and how it's distinct from genuine and what DMC3 dante lacks in this regard to achieve that realism and genuineness.

I've explained it plenty of times. If you dont understand how one can consider DmC Dante more "realistic", more grounded, less cheesy and less cartoony than DMC Dante after all this talk, I dont see how repeating myself and trying to explain the same thing over and over will work differently.

I think I've explained myself perfectly fine.

Edit: Explain 'subtle' and 'adult' while your at it too.

Sorry. I'm not your dictionary.

Explain yourself or stop shitting up the thread already.

I'm shitting the thread because I'm saying positive things about DmC and less positive things about DMC... on a DmC thread?

okay