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[Montauk]

There is no 'GOTY'. There is only different publications giving their opinions on what THEIR 'GOTY' is.

Yeah, i always say this. There are many, many GOTYS because it’s individual thing.

I had to laugh bitterly when I found out that it has become popular to seriously suggest that the official GOTY is whatever the shitty Game Awards show happens to go for.

There is no one GOTY. It’s much better to list outlets and their pick for GOTY.

When a game is really popular you can list multiple GOTYs, which is a real sign of something good.

 

[skit_data]

I mean the score is not  bad by any means, so it definitely won't hurt the game. It's still a very high score. On the other hand I think if it would have scored 90+ it could have been a system seller/killer app among more casual gamers in a way it probably won't be now. It will still sell well and have a looong tail, at least on PC.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Probably because it has too much gameplay and not much of movies so it scored lower than 90 on MC... You know which type of gamers I'm talking about

Which gamers are you talking about since you laid the ban bait for yourself?

Despite how the other side acts you need to stop doing the same shit back. You need to let karma do its work.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

the most important context is that people treated this like it was going to be a generational game that redefined things for Xbox as a brand.

Not really?

I suppose it's important if you want the game to be judged on a criteria that means it can be judged more harshly, in that sense the question:

Has this game reviewed well?

Is replaced with:

Is this game going to define an entire gaming brand and be deemed to be the greatest game within a seven to ten year period and will be spoken about in reverential terms for the next 30 years?

Through those two lenses, it's quite easy to say that the game has been a success or that it has not necessarily been a success.

I can see why some people would want to make one of those questions be the one to define the conversation around a game, but really are we not better than that?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I see a lot of people comparing it to Spider-Man PS4, which again is telling.

1. Spider-Man didn't change things for Sony as a brand
2. It did not win GOTY
3. It sold well because of its IP in conjunction with its score, similar to Hogwarts Legacy. Licensed games rating in the mid to high 80s is not common.

Games that changed things for Sony as a brand are Gran Turismo 1-3. God of War 1-3 + God of War/Ragnarok, Uncharted 2, TLOU

Returnal has an 86 on metacritic... it certainly didn't redefine PlayStation. Dreams is an 89... same story.

 

[VitoNotVito]

It's a Gamepass game.
Gamepass games don't "sell" on consoles. Didn't you hear of new metric? It's called "player count"

 

[Montauk]

I see a lot of people comparing it to Spider-Man PS4, which again is telling.

1. Spider-Man didn't change things for Sony as a brand
2. It did not win GOTY
3. It sold well because of its IP in conjunction with its score, similar to Hogwarts Legacy. Licensed games rating in the mid to high 80s is not common.

Games that changed things for Sony as a brand are Gran Turismo 1-3. God of War 1-3 + God of War/Ragnarok, Uncharted 2, TLOU

Returnal has an 86 on metacritic... it certainly didn't redefine PlayStation. Dreams is an 89... same story.

Spider-Man undoubtedly strengthened the PlayStation brand.

 

[L*][*N*K]

why are you people acting like Starfield has low reviews? 87 is really high what is wrong with you all??

 

[Helghan]

Lol, great reviews now translates to bad sales. Time to grow up

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Not really?

I suppose it's important if you want the game to be judged on a criteria that means it can be judged more harshly, in that sense the question:

Has this game reviewed well?

Is replaced with:

Is this game going to define an entire gaming brand and be deemed to be the greatest game within a seven to ten year period and will be spoken about in reverential terms for the next 30 years?

Through those two lenses, it's quite easy to say that the game has been a success or that it has not necessarily been a success.

I can see why some people would want to make one of those questions be the one to define the conversation around a game, but really are we not better than that?

I mean, you yourself were confident it would hit a 92 and it hasn't.

Even a 92 is more in line with a generational game, significantly more so than an 88 (or likely less).

It wasn't me who put this game in the light of being generational. That lens was created by people desperate for this game to save a sinking platform. And we've seen better-reviewed games fail to do that. Shenmue, Mario 64, Goldeneye for example.

 

[MasterCornholio]

why are you people acting like Starfield has low reviews? 87 is really high what is wrong with you all??

Same was asked months ago and the same question will be asked in the future. It's a never ending cycle unfortunately.

 

[killatopak]

I think it will. I can't deny I have played games I had no interest in before but was enticed by the review scores.

People who love Bethesda games will still play it no matter what, me included, but having high scores and winning awards is like free advertisement. There's a reason that image of a game plastered with 10/10 is a popular thing.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Spider-Man undoubtedly strengthened the PlayStation brand.

Not because it was a GOTY contender, but because it was one of the best-made licensed IP games, especially given the genre and scope of the game.

But I don't think anyone claimed at the time it was a generation-defining game. In fact, it got a lot of flack for curbing Batman Arkham games.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I see a lot of people comparing it to Spider-Man PS4, which again is telling.

1. Spider-Man didn't change things for Sony as a brand
2. It did not win GOTY
3. It sold well because of its IP in conjunction with its score, similar to Hogwarts Legacy. Licensed games rating in the mid to high 80s is not common.

Games that changed things for Sony as a brand are Gran Turismo 1-3. God of War 1-3 + God of War/Ragnarok, Uncharted 2, TLOU

Returnal has an 86 on metacritic... it certainly didn't redefine PlayStation. Dreams is an 89... same story.

Another good direct example would be Halo Infinite at 87. Many people liked the game, but it didn't win GOTY or change things for the Xbox brand.

It's fair to say that only a handful of games do that for a console or a company, and those are usually in the high 90s, e.g., Zelda, Mario, TLOU, God of War, RDR, GTA, Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, etc.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Yeah, i always say this. There are many, many GOTYS because it’s individual thing.

I had to laugh bitterly when I found out that it has become popular to seriously suggest that the official GOTY is whatever the shitty Game Awards show happens to go for.

There is no one GOTY. It’s much better to list outlets and their pick for GOTY.

When a game is really popular you can list multiple GOTYs, which is a real sign of something good.

Exactly. When people here talk about 'what will win GOTY' I don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about.

GOTY according to PC gamer? Or to Kotaku? Or IGN? What if all three have a different 'GOTY'? What if their 'GOTY' is Call Of Duty? Or FIFA? Does that still hold?

It's just fucking stupid tribalism, and dumb people desperate to engage in internet pissing contests where there aren't any.

 

[nightmare-slain]

It’s a good score for fucks sake??

 

[L*][*N*K]

Same was asked months ago and the same question will be asked in the future. It's a never ending cycle unfortunately.

It is really weird, people are acting like FF16 and Starfield are flops because it is 95, what the hell is happening??

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Exactly. When people here talk about 'what will win GOTY' I don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about.

GOTY according to PC gamer? Or to Kotaku? Or IGN? What if all three have a different 'GOTY'? What if their 'GOTY' is Call Of Duty? Or FIFA? Does that still hold?

It's just fucking stupid tribalism, and dumb people desperate to engage in internet pissing contests where there aren't any.

I love the obfuscation... When people refer to GOTY, they are largely referring to The Game Awards Game of The Year. Other than It Takes Two, which came out in a bad year overall, every other winner has been a 90 or higher on metacritic. It Takes Two was an 89.

This year has seen significantly higher grades:

Baldurs Gate - 96
Zelda - 96
Metroid Prime* - 94
Witcher 3* - 94
Tetris Effect Connected* - 93
Resident Evil 4* - 93
Street Fighter 6 - 92
Diablo 4 - 91
Sea of Stars - 91
Rogue Legacy 2 - 90
Quake 2* - 90
Jack Jeanne - 90
Moss 2 - 90
Persona 4* - 90
Ghost Trick - 90
Dead Space* - 89
Hi Fi Rush - 89


So this game isn't anywhere close to being nominated for GOTY let alone winning.

It'll be Baldur's Gate, Zelda, Diablo 4, and probably Street Fighter 6.

 

[Crayon]

There's some decent arguments in here. Mibu no ookami posted the list in particular:


PS1/N64
FF7 - 92
Mario 64 - 94
Goldeneye - 96
Gran Turismo - 96
Metal Gear Solid - 94
... etc. The post is up the page ...

Sounds obvious but it will depend more on how good the game is. This game is fanboy meat right now and scores could be swinging any given way. Internet chatter is being distorted by fan emotions, too. When the dust settles we'll get to hear what everyone thought about it.

The real question here is if score an accurate indicator for how "good" the game really is. Is it, numbers aside, up there with the greats? If the public knows that stamp on the marketing that says 9X META is not very common, then yes I can see how the score could affect sales, even if the game turns out to be an all time great.

This game has plenty of time in the tail though. If it is actually amazing and the score is sandbagged, starfield has plenty of time to shake off the meta score. So I still think the actual quality and entertainment of the game is going to be a lot more influential than the score.

 

[farmerboy]

High 80s is bad?

When did anything less than 90 become bad?

 

[Desless1]

Lol, great reviews now translates to bad sales. Time to grow up

Yeah, all I see is a lot of concerned people with no proper reason. Funny to read though.

 

[Montauk]

I love the obfuscation... When people refer to GOTY, they are largely referring to The Game Awards Game of The Year.

Well they shouldn’t, because it’s stupid.

Like reviews themselves, getting a multitude of GOTYs tells you a lot more than one.

So hilarious that TGA is being treated as a singular authority. There is not, never has and never will be *the* GOTY, there are GOTYs - plural.

What is with this insistence of extremely online gamers in simplifying everything? Is it sheer laziness?

 

[Tommi84]

Gamepass will hurt Starfield's sales. Players from gamepass will not look at the score

 

[MasterCornholio]

It is really weird, people are acting like FF16 and Starfield are flops because it is 95, what the hell is happening??

Well we had someone try and prove that FF16 flopped in sales. Expect the same for Starfield.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

We all know 86 is a great score. But I remember back on gamefaqs that anything not starting with a 9 was considered a bomba for trolling purposes.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Well they shouldn’t, because it’s stupid.

Like reviews themselves, getting a multitude of GOTYs tells you a lot more than one.

So hilarious that TGA is being treated as a singular authority. There is *the* GOTY, there are GOTYs - plural.

TGA GOTY is voted on by multiple review outlets and media people... It's actually a lot better than aggregate sites, because I could give a game a 91 and give a different game a 92 and I could vote the 91 GOTY over the 92.

Also, some of the minor publications aren't worth shit.

I've not seen much pushback to TGA until now... so the timing of that is pretty suspect.

Starfield isn't going to rack up many GOTY awards at major publications either.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Exactly. When people here talk about 'what will win GOTY' I don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about.

GOTY according to PC gamer? Or to Kotaku? Or IGN? What if all three have a different 'GOTY'? What if their 'GOTY' is Call Of Duty? Or FIFA? Does that still hold?

It's just fucking stupid tribalism, and dumb people desperate to engage in internet pissing contests where there aren't any.

It usually means the most GOTYs awards. Sometimes, people also refer to the TGA GOTY award.

Like this: https://www.gameawards.net/

 

[GigaBowser]

90 sells better thens 80 but nort that big differences pal

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Gamepass will hurt Starfield's sales. Players from gamepass will not look at the score

We also know that Microsoft will probably try to obfuscate the sales of Starfield by mixing in the number of players who played it.

But it being a GamePass game and that reviews say it takes 12+ hours for it to even get good, I know a lot of people will fire it up on GamePass and quit before then.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I mean, you yourself were confident it would hit a 92 and it hasn't.

Even a 92 is more in line with a generational game, significantly more so than an 88 (or likely less).

It wasn't me who put this game in the light of being generational. That lens was created by people desperate for this game to save a sinking platform. And we've seen better-reviewed games fail to do that. Shenmue, Mario 64, Goldeneye for example.

Well I guessed at 92. My hopes and dreams weren't pinned on it or anything. It's not that deep.

Is the whole point of this conversation now that people like you want to pour scorn on something for weird platform warring reasons but because the game hasn't reviewed poorly enough for that to be seen as a reasonable action (somehow), we have to move the discussion over to something that wasn't said?

I got into the spirit of the launch, guessed a score and got within 4% of the score and you want to throw that in my face and start saying "ahhhhh! It was 4 points lower and you said (I didn't) it would be a genre defining game! Ahhhhh! Cry!"

Because that seems like an absolutely unhinged way to spend your day.

 

[Kataploom]

Which gamers are you talking about since you laid the ban bait for yourself?

Despite how the other side acts you need to stop doing the same shit back. You need to let karma do its work.

I'm not fanboy or something but which games do you mean elden ring, it takes two, Sekiro.
Btw tlou 2 is my favorite game of all time lol.

I'm taking about the press always preferring cinematic games with little or very limited gameplay. This game seems very gameplay ficus tho it's not my thing, yet it seems like it appeals to normal AAA market yet isn't like your typical cinematic blockbuster so it clearly shocked that segment.

Again, not my type of game anyway so not shilling MS or Bethesda.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Well I guessed at 92. My hopes and dreams weren't pinned on it or anything. It's not that deep.

Is the whole point of this conversation now that people like you want to pour scorn on something for weird platform warring reasons but because the game hasn't reviewed poorly enough for that to be a reasonable action, we have to move the discussion over to something that wasn't said?

I got into the spirit of the launch, guessed a score and got within 4% of the score and you want to throw that in my face and start saying "ahhhhh! It was 4 points lower and you said (I didn't) it would be a genre defining game! Ahhhhh! Cry!"

Because that seems like an absolutely unhinged way to spend your day.

You guessed 92 because you know what goes along with it. You said you were "confident" that it would get a 92. So the idea that you were off by 4 points doesn't really mean anything. First, it's an 87 on XSX rather than an 88, but you've selected the higher of the two scores. Second, it's likely to drop by a few points once more publications submit their scores.

I love how people say, Starfield isn't likely to be a generation-defining game, and it likely isn't going to move the needle for XS, but now the conversation has been changed to, it's a good game, why are people calling it a bad game.

Where has anyone called it a bad game or a bad score, but that is definitely moving the goalposts of where this conversation started before the game was released. When/if this game slips to an 86 or 85, are you going to say that you were only off by 6-7 points? As if that isn't actually a lot?

 

[NikuNashi]

High 80s is bad?

When did anything less than 90 become bad?

When it was hyped as the second coming of christ by the green rats.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I'm taking about the press always preferring cinematic games with little or very limited gameplay. This game seems very gameplay ficus tho it's not my thing, yet it seems like it appeals to normal AAA market yet isn't like your typical cinematic blockbuster so it clearly shocked that segment.

Again, not my type of game anyway so not shilling MS or Bethesda.

I mean you did say type of gamers so it sounded like you were making a reference to something else. Really don't know what to say about the press because they reviewed Bethesda games highly in the past. Don't think it was targeting from them.

 

[zeldaring]

There is no 'GOTY'. There is only different publications giving their opinions on what THEIR 'GOTY' is.

And, no. The highest selling games on any given year often get very ordinary metacritic scores. 'Call Of Duty' being the top candidate. Outside of enthusiast forums, nobody gives a single, solitary fuck about review scores. You care, because you're interested in online pissing contests. The average knucklehead who walks into EB games, grunts at the cashier, and gets handed Triple Aye Game 2023 does not give a fuck what Paul Tassi has to say about anything, and you're delusional if you believe otherwise.

Calm down and stop being so defensive. I do care for reviews only in games that i'm generally not really interested in. If critics are saying its a masterpiece as a gamer i wanna see what all the fuss is about. I also do think being rated near the highest rated game of all time makes a difference in sales.

 

[zeldaring]

Probably because it has too much gameplay and not much of movies so it scored lower than 90 on MC... You know which type of gamers I'm talking about

You mean games with great combat and controls that have a story and cutscenes?

 

[Optimus Lime]

Calm down and stop being so defensive. I do care for reviews only in games that i'm generally not really interested in. If critics are saying its a masterpiece as a gamer i wanna see what all the fuss is about. I also do think being rated near the highest rated game of all time makes a difference in sales.

How am I being defensive?

I'm disagreeing with you. Sorry if that triggers you. Own your fragility and move on.

 

[Optimus Lime]

I love the obfuscation

There's no obfuscation.

There isn't a 'GOTY'. There are many. What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[DenchDeckard]

88 OC universal acclaim. A huge fanbase of Bethesda who's last game sold millions with an 83MC modding for years.

All reviews from actual gaming nerds who have 100 percented it says its amazing.

Basically, the guys i trust say its incredible and its fallout in space but with better quests and writing.

Yup, sounds like my dream game. Fanboys are trying to downplay it because it didn't hit the reviews of say a game like god of war ragnarok....

Sounds perfect to me.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

You guessed 92 because you know what goes along with it. You said you were "confident" that it would get a 92. So the idea that you were off by 4 points doesn't really mean anything. First, it's an 87 on XSX rather than an 88, but you've selected the higher of the two scores. Second, it's likely to drop by a few points once more publications submit their scores.

I love how people say, Starfield isn't likely to be a generation-defining game, and it likely isn't going to move the needle for XS, but now the conversation has been changed to, it's a good game, why are people calling it a bad game.

Where has anyone called it a bad game or a bad score, but that is definitely moving the goalposts of where this conversation started before the game was released. When/if this game slips to an 86 or 85, are you going to say that you were only off by 6-7 points? As if that isn't actually a lot?

I said 88 because you said it, sorry you got it wrong .

Basically, this is what I said it was. This is you desperately platform warring. The thing that seems the most important part of this game's release for you is that you can try and make people feel bad about it.

Such a weird way to spend your life. Try spending your life being enthusiastic about the things you like rather than dedicating yourself to things you don't like or trying to upset people who don't care what you think.

To try and make that easier for you and to improve the time I spend on here, I'm going to put you on ignore, I think.

Hope you're having a better life soon.

 

[MasterCornholio]

88 OC universal acclaim. A huge fanbase of Bethesda who's last game sold millions with an 83MC modding for years.

All reviews from actual gaming nerds who have 100 percented it says its amazing.

Basically, the guys i trust say its incredible and its fallout in space but with better quests and writing.

Yup, sounds like my dream game. Fanboys are trying to downplay it because it didn't hit the reviews of say a game like god of war ragnarok....

Sounds perfect to me.

What's wrong with Ragnarok?

Anyways I think both games are great.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I said 88 because you said it, sorry you got it wrong .

Basically, this is what I said it was. This is you desperately platform warring. The thing that seems the most important part of this game's release for you is that you can try and make people feel bad about it.

Such a weird way to spend your life. Try spending your life being enthusiastic about the things you like rather than dedicating yourself to things you don't like or trying to upset people who don't care what you think.

To try and make that easier for you and to improve the time I spend on here, I'm going to put you on ignore, I think.

Hope you're having a better life soon.

The irony here is palpable.

I don't think anyone should feel bad about a game that I haven't played and will never play.

What I'm pointing out here is that the game was hailed as a generational game before it was even released and reviews so far suggest it isn't that.

Maybe there is actually a lesson to be learned here about overhyping games, particularly original IP?

 

[Montauk]

The irony here is palpable.

I don't think anyone should feel bad about a game that I haven't played and will never play.

What I'm pointing out here is that the game was hailed as a generational game before it was even released and reviews so far suggest it isn't that.

Maybe there is actually a lesson to be learned here about overhyping games, particularly original IP?

No lessons will ever be learned. They never are.

On the general point it’s self-apparent from the thread that super high MC scores were super important - right up until they weren’t.

This is all very predictable.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

There's no obfuscation.

There isn't a 'GOTY'. There are many. What's so hard to understand about that?

There is literally an industry accepted GOTY involving major publications, whether you recognize the validity of that is like saying there is no best picture and the oscars don't count, because there are also the golden globes and mtv movie awards, baftas, critics choice, and individual publication's awards...

 

[zeldaring]

How am I being defensive?

I'm disagreeing with you. Sorry if that triggers you. Own your fragility and move on.

You said people that only care about reviews because of a online pissing matches when i was only saying it makes a difference to score near ATH scores compared to a 87.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

No lessons will ever be learned. They never are.

On the general point it’s self-apparent from the thread that super high MC scores were super important - right up until they weren’t.

This is all very predictable.

I'm not sure when an 87 and an 88 became "super high"

They certainly weren't super high for Horizon Forbidden West or FF16.

 

[Bigbelly]

No, not being multi play will tho.

 

[MadPanda]

234k CCU on steam for early access, I don't think it hurt its sales going by this metric.

 

[DenchDeckard]

What's wrong with Ragnarok?

Anyways I think both games are great.

Ragnarok, imo is not a 94 mc game and no where near the same level of god of war 2018...yet somehow it scored the same metacritic. That's where we are with game reviews in my opinion. It's nothing against the game. It's against review culture and the way its all handled. Ragnarok and final fantasy xvi were admitted to not play the side content and more mainline the games and got good reviews. This doesn't tie up with my taste where I do everything and those games fall from such highs when you 100 percent them. For me as a player, anyway.

If you look at starfields ign review he's hardly scratched the surface of the game. Reviewers with 100 plus hours are absolutely praising it and saying the side quests etc are really very good.

Dan Stapleton played thw main quest, admits he's got loads to go back to and can't wait to. Lots of quests he never even touched and he gave it a 7/10 to have the review live for the review embargo. Not a good look on such a big game imo.

The people I trust, fextralife, ACG etc and those posting 100% playthrough reviews say its Bethesdas best game and amazing.

Doesn't add up but gives me great food for thought when I get into it later.

 

[Montauk]

There is literally an industry accepted GOTY involving major publications, whether you recognize the validity of that is like saying there is no best picture and the oscars don't count, because there are also the golden globes and mtv movie awards, baftas, critics choice, and individual publication's awards...

Hilarious to suggest that the Oscar Best Picture winner would be universally touted as the best film of the year.

That’s not how that works. It’s an award. One award. One with a lot of attention but that doesn’t render it definitive.

In fact, very often the Oscars have awarded Best Picture to meh films.

There is no “the” GOTY, there never has been and there never will be. However much marketing bucks the Dorito Pope pumps into hyping up his own brand.

Going back to your Oscars (lol) comparison, you know what’s sad and cringy? That gamers are so so insecure about their hobby that they are desperate for there to be an Oscars for gaming.

And they don’t know what else to do so they’ve decided the Game Awards is that. Please!