Imru’ al-Qays
Member
Skill trees absolutely suck
You counting only sony owned studios? That is what the OP is talking about not contract work 2nd party games or money hats etc. What is the current output of sony owned studios. I miss the ps1 and ps2 diversity myself. I understand after uncharted wanting to recycle the naughty dog template but ffs it's OK to try other things. God of War didn't need to turn into God of uncharted with a sully like side kick to boot ffs. Let insomniac make a resistance game be a cool change. Not shutdown the Japanese studios ffs to make glorified demos. Give me a old school epic jrpg or strategy rpg. How about a real effort into twisted metal ffs please not the shit destruction Allstars.I started to make the list of the genres of the PS4 1st party games and it's so long I didn't complete it, this is only from 2013 to 2016, not even half of a generation (they follow the order of the wikipedia entry, I skipped some like ports or copublished and I'm lazy to review it so very likely some are duplied):
FPS
3D platformer
Action MMO
Personality test adventure difficult to put in a genre (Doki-Doki Universe)
Puzzle
2.5D SHMUP
Rythm platformer
Mini game collection experience / tech demo
Arcade racer
Traditional open world action adventure
UGC platformer/multi-genre
Baseball
Survival Horror action adventure
2.5D stealth game
Top down shooter
Rhythm game
Psychodelic art game difficult to put in a genre (Hohokum)
Singing game
First person adventure art game or something like that (Unfinished Swan)
Soulsborne
Cutest game protagonist ever simulator gravity whatever flying open world action adventure
Hack & Slash
3D platformer
TPS action adventure
Interactive drama survival horror
Interactive drama action adventure
Walking simulator
Action RPG
2.5D PvP strategy game
Billiard
Whatever Flow, Flower and Journey are (but also released in previous gen)
2D fighting game (previous gen port funded, published and ported -outsourcing it- by Sony)
First person horror VR game
TPS 3D platformer
2.5D action adventure
Action adventure puzzle? (TLG)
Top down shooter ARPG
Platformer? art game (Bound)
Online vehicular combat game
(Assymmetric MOBA?) PVP top down shooter (Killstrain)
Difficult to put in a genre (Tomorrow Children)
Racing VR game
Billiards VR game
FPS sports VR game
'Jenga'-like puzzle VR game
Rail shooter VR game
It's a way longer list covering not even half of a generation instead of two generations. Btw, half of the years of the last decade had a ('shit action adventure') PS exclusive as the game with more GOTY awards. 9 of the 10 years had a game playable on PS. Only one of them had a Nintendo game. So they aren't 'shit', in addition to have more variety than the Nintendo 1st party games they also win more awards than them.
Throughout their portfolio Sony has created Resistance, MAG, Killzone SOCOM, RPGs like Legends of Dragoon, Dark Cloud, Horizon, and God of War having RPG elements... throughout their time as a publishers they have created a vast amount of variety ..more than Nintendo and Microsoft in 20yrs
Less talking, more showing, native Xbox Series titles only, go!We can go game by game the past two years going into the latest known announcement we know to prove this is objectively false. PS3 Sony was, but so far this generation it hasn't been close. I would say since the launch of HZD sony kind of fallen into a niche.
He's trying to give Sony credit for a Street Fighter 4 port, he's a bozo.You counting only sony owned studios? That is what the OP is talking about not contract work 2nd party games or money hats etc. What is the current output of sony owned studios. I miss the ps1 and ps2 diversity myself. I understand after uncharted wanting to recycle the naughty dog template but ffs it's OK to try other things. God of War didn't need to turn into God of uncharted with a sully like side kick to boot ffs. Let insomniac make a resistance game be a cool change. Not shutdown the Japanese studios ffs to make glorified demos. Give me a old school epic jrpg or strategy rpg. How about a real effort into twisted metal ffs please not the shit destruction Allstars.
You must think Sony is in the same position as Nintendo. They are not.I know people will see this as FUD but I was listening to a podcast on Sony’s up coming games that we know of and as people stated before they all seem to have a similar back bone.
Spider-Man = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements (Skill tree)
GOW = Third person action adventure with light RPG elements
Horizion = TPAAwLRPGE
Wolverine = not much info but we can assume unless it’ll be a full rpg in the isometric view
Naughty Dog also has a similar DNA to their games. As my favorite studio I feel they mastered the formula the best tho.
As someone who games on all consoles (XsX, PS5 and switch) I’m not too bothered by it since my PS5 is my exclusive box but do you think Sony should add a bit of diversity to their game line up from a genre perspective? Would you like to see them fund a large budget Crpg or an isometric strategy game? Maybe dive into more untraditional genres. I know from a business perspective if it ain’t broke…but what about from a non mainstream fan perspective. What would y’all like to see, or just stick to what they’ve been doing?
At the least I’d like to see them do less skill trees and maybe do a game that is either a full RPG. The quality of their studios doing a full on RPG sounds like a good ass time to me.
Announcement? Is that what you play now, announcements? How about actual released games and good damn games too? Yes please, let's focus on the last two years and take a look at those lists. Why don't you start with the Xbox list for 2021 I posted a few posts back, including all the third party console exclusives for Xbox. Years 2019 and 2018 must make for an even bigger and louder laugh....oh but you
I never once said Sony needs any of this... I said what would people like to see, not what games does Sony need to make to hit their investors quarterly...idc about that.You must think Sony is in the same position as Nintendo. They are not.
Nintendo has to provide a well rounded selection of First Party titles, because that is basically their core business. Nintendo can't rely on Third Parties for their library. That was also why they pay for Bayonetta production.
On the other hand, Sony assumes all Third Party games would be available on their hardware. As such their core business is to collect the 30% rent from these games. Sony's 1st party is not for generating profits directly, but to pad out the library where Third Parties had been neglecting. This means right now Sony is almost exclusively focused on Single Player games with minimum microtransactions, because that is what is lacking in the 3rd party market.
If the market inverts by some miracle and everyone start shipping single player games, then Sony would likely start making Battle Royale titles instead to balance it. Sony is a Platform Holder, and the balance of the available library is what they care about.
I have no idea why you think I am talking about stock prices.I never once said Sony needs any of this... I said what would people like to see, not what games does Sony need to make to hit their investors quarterly...idc about that.
People who want to play shooters are spoilled for choice right now. It doesn't matter how good an old game was, it wouldn't survive if it can't compete with existing shooters of today.Sony HAD a really good shooter series called "KillZone" (developed by Guerrilla Games), but they ditched it away, just like their other iconic brands from before the Andrew House era.
So yeah, Sony ditched their varied franchises to focus on 2 or 3 game genres, which is a shame, considering their history.
Why do people still justify Sony, when they've shat on their legacy and their history 100 times over? I can never understand that.
Less talking, more showing, native Xbox Series titles only, go!
Where are thier shooters? (1st person and 3rd)
2D platformers?
Fighting games?
RPG? (J or W)
RTS?
Sandbox?
Survival?
Current-gen only was the criteria.FPS- Halo, Gears, Wolf, Doom, Prey, Quake.
2D - Best 2d exclusives of the generation, but not Microsoft owned.
Fighting - Killer Instinct
RPG - Fable, Elder-scrolls, Avowed, Outerworlds plus more.
RTS - Age Of Empires, Wastelands
Sandbox in what way? Forza Horizon.
Survival - State of Decay
Similation - Flight Sim, Motorsport
Don't know about that chief. I started gaming, as many did, with stomping on Goombas. Nothing immersive about that but pure fun gameplay.No, that's the problem right there IMHO. They've given up designing, and resigned themselves to a " we can't do better!" - which if they can't, stop making games, you aren't offering anything IMO.
Skill trees are exactly why 3x runs on the 5min Pacman Championship DX level (from psp mini game running on PS3) reminded me of why gaming is my thing - by contrast of 10hrs in HZD, pacman is exhilarating and immersive because it doesn't give you 2seconds to look away to think about anything else and do your best.
For me, gameplay is king, always has been, and is the reason I continue in frustration to buy Nintendo consoles every generation since the Cube, knowing that I need gameplay heavy games, to get through the main offering of great story and graphics - designed by committee gameplay - games Sony produce.
Gaming at its core - IMHO - is supposed to immersive, and there's nothing in gameplay less immersive than a skill tree at the moment. MGS4 is probably on the apex of the problem for me. As it sensibly provides a virtual training room to hone skills for controls/UI which negates the need for a story influencing skill tree, yet still manages to break the immersion massively with the weapon unlock trading, which feels like skill tree trudge.
Next time maybe try hzd on max difficulty level so you can see how much you can get distracted during combat before becoming dead meat...No, that's the problem right there IMHO. They've given up designing, and resigned themselves to a " we can't do better!" - which if they can't, stop making games, you aren't offering anything IMO.
Skill trees are exactly why 3x runs on the 5min Pacman Championship DX level (from psp mini game running on PS3) reminded me of why gaming is my thing - by contrast of 10hrs in HZD, pacman is exhilarating and immersive because it doesn't give you 2seconds to look away to think about anything else and do your best.
For me, gameplay is king, always has been, and is the reason I continue in frustration to buy Nintendo consoles every generation since the Cube, knowing that I need gameplay heavy games, to get through the main offering of great story and graphics - designed by committee gameplay - games Sony produce.
Gaming at its core - IMHO - is supposed to immersive, and there's nothing in gameplay less immersive than a skill tree at the moment. MGS4 is probably on the apex of the problem for me. As it sensibly provides a virtual training room to hone skills for controls/UI which negates the need for a story influencing skill tree, yet still manages to break the immersion massively with the weapon unlock trading, which feels like skill tree trudge.
I'm not saying it is a rubbish game, I'm saying it isn't very immersive because of the design decisionsNext time maybe try hzd on max difficulty level so you can see how much you can get distracted during combat before becoming dead meat...
Hint, not much...
Of course if you talk about the remaining game time when you don't fight then that's on you, nobody buy an open world action rpg expecting pacman gameplay\pacing, of course you have more dull moments in a big 50 hours game.
I don't know what skill trees has anything to do in a pac man\horizon comparison tbh...
I don't know what the fuck are you talking about so let's just cut the discussion here because you are making zero sense to me...I'm not saying it is a rubbish game, I'm saying it isn't very immersive because of the design decisions
Let's face it, if you removed skill trees from all of the games in the industry, what on earth would publishers then use to sell deluxe SKUs of games? The skill tree is anti-gaming IMO, because its need feels like it is driven by accountants, not game designers. It even hampers story telling, because writers are then forced to structure the story around unlocking things.
The medium is "gaming", so IMO, without being immersed in gaming - gameplay - it isn't immersive. It certainly doesn't feel immersive when I'm aware of how many games that all came before - that I've played - using the same skill tree mechanic a decade earlier - and because the mechanic is a trudge and boring for me, now - my subconscious starts deconstructing the design while playing, rather than being engrossed in gameplay and the surprise of the open game world experience.To me immersion comes from the world created, the story told and the sound designed. Obviously if the gameplay is shit I wouldn't play the game till the end but it has nothing to do with immersion. I can easily spend hours in the pause menu reading lore or checking skill tree, unpause and continue to be immersed. GOW, Fallout, Skyrim, all beautiful immersive games with skill trees.
I get your point. Everyone has a different take on immersion. To me what really breaks immersion is for example if the main character is super OP in gameplay and gets destroyed in cutscenes, and I'mnot even talking about RPGs. One big example is Drake in UC4, destroys everyone in gameplay but gets fucked in cutscenes even in a 2v1 situation with his brother helping him.The medium is "gaming", so IMO, without being immersed in gaming - gameplay - it isn't immersive. It certainly doesn't feel immersive when I'm aware of how many games that all came before - that I've played - using the same skill tree mechanic a decade earlier - and because the mechanic is a trudge and boring for me, now - my subconscious starts deconstructing the design while playing, rather than being engrossed in gameplay and the surprise of the open game world experience.
Hypocritically I'll remember and judge decade old games with this design mechanic fondly, because it was fresher, back then.
It’s one of the reasons I won’t be buying a PS5. I don’t need another 8 hour third person exclusive for the year.
variety? People should be calling them out on multiplayer games, that is the biggest issue Sony faces. Into the second generation now of them not being able to create or capture an audience long term.
That's just because drunkman had to make the black chick super strong to please anita.I get your point. Everyone has a different take on immersion. To me what really breaks immersion is for example if the main character is super OP in gameplay and gets destroyed in cutscenes, and I'mnot even talking about RPGs. One big example is Drake in UC4, destroys everyone in gameplay but gets fucked in cutscenes even in a 2v1 situation with his brother helping him.
What I like about GOW is he's badass in gameplay and cutscenes.
That doesn't make sense.Has to run native otherwise the list would be far too long.
But a lot of gamers don't care about multiplayer at all so why would they call Sony out on that? All I play is single player and that is where Sony excels. Even if I were a multiplayer gamer, the industry is overflowing with options there. The industry is not overflowing with experiences like the ones Sony provides where characters and stories compliment great game play at an extremely high level. Not from my perspective anyway. So I don't see the same "issue" you say Sony is facing, but as you say that is why I'm gaming on PS5 and you are not.
If all you care about is single player Sony exclusives that’s fine, but there’s less then a week worth of game time then for the entire year.
Sony WANT you to play all kinds of games. It's just that they prefer you to buy Third Party games for that purpose. Sony is not Nintendo, they are NOT discouraging you from playing Fortnite or Call of Duty. Sony get paid just as handsomely for these titles. It is silly to claim that you are suppose to buy a PS5 to ONLY play the exclusives. That isn't the intended way to use it.If all you care about is single player Sony exclusives that’s fine, but there’s less then a week worth of game time then for the entire year.
Each their own.
I was counting first party games, which means games published by Sony owned studios. Like the Nintendo list I quoted it also includes 2nd party games, or 3rd party games published by the 1st party.You counting only sony owned studios?
Your list is complete bollocks, you're counting similar games as different genres based on their setting, list 3rd party games available on every platform under the sun (even the fucking 3DS) and even billard as two separate genres because one is regular billard and the other is VR, yeah great gameplay variety you've go there.I was counting first party games, which means games published by Sony owned studios. Like the Nintendo list I quoted it also includes 2nd party games, or 3rd party games published by the 3rd party.
If we limit the lists to only games developed by internal 1st party studios Sony also has a longer and more varied amount of genres covered, even if obviously both lists got smaller.
I had a typo, I said 'published by the 3d party' when I meant to say 'published by the first party'. As I said it was the list of frist party games, so the games published by the 1st party (which includes games not developed by their internal 1st party studios, same as the Nintendo list). If I would have included exclusive games published by 3rd partie the list would be even way bigger than the Nintendo one because Sony gets way more 3rd party exclusives.Your list is complete bollocks, you're counting similar games as different genres based on their setting, list 3rd party games available on every platform under the sun (even the fucking 3DS) and even billard as two separate genres because one is regular billard and the other is VR, yeah great gameplay variety you've go there.
So .... what are all the big first person shooters out there right now? Call of Duty, Halo, what else?People who want to play shooters are spoilled for choice right now. It doesn't matter how good an old game was, it wouldn't survive if it can't compete with existing shooters of today.
Sony would revive Killzone if and when shooters all but vanish from Third Party portfolios. That is their job.
So .... what are all the big first person shooters out there right now? Call of Duty, Halo, what else?
Sony WANT you to play all kinds of games. It's just that they prefer you to buy Third Party games for that purpose. Sony is not Nintendo, they are NOT discouraging you from playing Fortnite or Call of Duty. Sony get paid just as handsomely for these titles. It is silly to claim that you are suppose to buy a PS5 to ONLY play the exclusives. That isn't the intended way to use it.
This is why Playstation ads feature IP from across the spectrum of Third Party titles. Sony never told you to only play first party.
And that’s where the disconnect is between normal people and those you replied to - we care about us, they care about Sony.I never once said Sony needs any of this... I said what would people like to see, not what games does Sony need to make to hit their investors quarterly...idc about that.
Owning both PlayStation and Xbox had always been a bad deal. I am not going to pretend it isn't.No shit? But I can play those titles on a better system with a better controller on the xbox. My PlayStations have always been exclusive only machines, that just doesn’t stack up with the hours of return anymore. Maybe if they ever do a Socom again
Owning both PlayStation and Xbox had always been a bad deal. I am not going to pretend it isn't.
You do you, have fun with Xbox. I am waiting for psvr2 launch before jumping in, myself.
I don't care for those, there are plenty of third party options... and well for those who are into these TLoU2 has something coming I guess, GoW does not lend itself well to MP (maybe some other style than usual given the different gameplay style).variety? People should be calling them out on multiplayer games, that is the biggest issue Sony faces. Into the second generation now of them not being able to create or capture an audience long term.
No shit? But I can play those titles on a better system with a better controller on the xbox. My PlayStations have always been exclusive only machines, that just doesn’t stack up with the hours of return anymore. Maybe if they ever do a Socom again
Yeah so? Who cares? Where's the variety from Microsoft? Where's the variety from Nintendo? Does Xbox have exclusive RPGs? What's their biggest action adventure game?