I don't think it's very clear that the character is supposed to look cute instead of sexy. She looks like this:
Gonna have to REALLY disagree with you there.
The point I am trying to make (and am clearly failing at) is that there is no "East vs West" mentality here. Everyone knows what a "sexual" costume looks like. Everyone knows what a sexy dance looks like.
Gonna have to REALLY disagree with you there.
Yeah that's a definite reach. Lolipop chainsaw is definitely a game made to be super fanservicey and Rise's outfit isn't even close to what Jessica Nigri is wearing.
We have bikni top with unbuttoned top over it, exposed midriff, short skirt, thigh highs, and high heels. I don't think it's that different from the outfit Nigri is wearing. I think there's an aspect of giving visual interest to the outfit from a drawing perspective but to say it's non-sexual is a little much.
Clearly, we were not looking at the same image, then, because the character on the E3 badge looks *nothing* like that to me.
-Tom
Oh wow, just cruised through some of the pages in here. Pretty intense debate going on. So Does my avi qualify me for a fan service crazed animu weebo also?
How about this, I'll fess up right away. I don't mind it at all if it is in reference to adult characters. However, I like the loli's dressed like the one in my avi.; she is the best loli in anime ever. There is no reason to sexual children in video games and I'm stumped trying to remember a game where it was prevalent.
what bothers me is when people act like "fanservice's" sole meaning is "showing boobs and butts of girl characters".
how about if I put these 2 images next to each other, you really think they aren't similar?
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-;184828475 said:I know I'm late to the thread but, what's the problem with a character causing sexual arousal? What's wrong with that?
I'm not on the "outfit is completely nonsexual" thing now that I look at it but linking to things that are EXPLICITLY sexual is a little misleading. There's an obvious difference between Rise's Outfit and a leotard with sheer tights, especially when combined with that sort of a dance.
I dunno an expose midriff or low cut top is sexy sure, but that's just kind of typical sexy clothing I guess. It's just not that outrageous given the context of the game to me.
Still to this day refuse to play Bayonetta because of bayo's design.
Yes I agree. You also have to remember that all Anita says is that it "is unfortunate" they chose that image. Not that it was filth that should be destroyed. Everyone can see that in advertising a dancing game you will use sexualised images, but attaching one to an attendee badge is rightfully seen as not being in the greatest of tastes.
Yes I agree. You also have to remember that all Anita says is that it "is unfortunate" they chose that image. Not that it was filth that should be destroyed. Everyone can see that in advertising a dancing game you will use sexualised images, but attaching one to an attendee badge is rightfully seen as not being in the greatest of tastes.
Not even remotely. I'm even more certain they're NOT similar seeing them right next to one another, in fact.
The first is clearly contextualized as a nonsexualized Japanese idol outfit, whereas the second is clearly contextualized as a sexualized Western cheerleader outfit.
Culturally, they are entirely dissimilar. In terms of the amount of skin showing, they are entirely dissimilar (surely you can see that the second image is showing WAY more skin!). And in terms of the intent behind them, they are entirely dissimilar.
I cannot even comprehend comparing the two, honestly.
-Tom
Excellent post.And if so, that only shows that people don't judge games for stuff like that -- they throw money at them. Just like people throw money at lots of risque things. If we're going to judge by Game of War commercials, then fan service isn't 'holding gaming back', it's expanding the gaming base and making mega-bank in the process.
Again, the niche games people are complaining about are niche games. Even most people who game regularly don't know about them. And to even the people that have heard about them, it's a game name and maybe a cover or a couple screenshots. Big deal.
Meanwhile, 50 Shades of Grey tear up the charts, teenagers posing in bikinis are huge hits on social media, and anybody can dial up hardcore porn in 3 seconds on the internet. Fanservice in games isn't holding gaming back -- it's not even a footnote in the history of gaming.
If you want gaming to be taken seriously as a medium, you don't try to remove the risque - you simply prove that it's a viable medium by putting out masterpieces. That's what happened when Miller's Dark Knight Returns took the critics and mainstream by storm in 1986. And then once the critics eyes were opened, other previous works and newer works were finally ready to be noticed. And now 30 years later, you can't throw a stone without seeing the influence of comics on every other medium -- massive hits like The Walking Dead, etc, etc. Nobody gives two shits if you can also get swimsuit comic books or tentacle porn graphic novels - just like nobody judges Citizen Kane because you can also go rent porn flicks.
Nothing is holding back gaming other than the medium itself - balancing the complexity of interactive storytelling, technological merit, etc. Certainly not boob pixels.
Oh come on, the only difference is that Nigri has bare shoulders, she isn't showing way more skin at all. if Rise's costume is supposed to be nonsexualised then why is her top open with her bra exposed?
The difference being that most HS Cheerleading outfits don't look like that wheras most Idol outfits do look like Rise's. So one is super idealized and the other isn't.
Honestly man I feel like you're going too hard on this. I get the idea but why are there things like idol dakimakura or gravure albums if there's zero sexuality in it?Not even remotely. I'm even more certain they're NOT similar seeing them right next to one another, in fact.
The first is clearly contextualized as a nonsexualized Japanese idol outfit, whereas the second is clearly contextualized as a sexualized Western cheerleader outfit.
Yes I agree. You also have to remember that all Anita says is that it "is unfortunate" they chose that image. Not that it was filth that should be destroyed. Everyone can see that in advertising a dancing game you will use sexualised images, but attaching one to an attendee badge is rightfully seen as not being in the greatest of tastes.
You know, I wasn't even particularly of the mind that her outfit was sexual or anything, until I saw it from that different angle. The top tied under the exposed bra is kind of damning.
She's just a walking fashion model sketch in a dominatrix outfit. All her poses are made ridiculous purposefully, you're just really missing out. Least sexual character, Mario gets me more excited.
Is there any image from Dancing All Night that would've been MORE appropriate?
Oh come on, the only difference is that Nigri has bare shoulders, she isn't showing way more skin at all. if Rise's costume is supposed to be nonsexualised then why is her top open with her bra exposed?
Honestly man I feel like you're going too hard on this. I get the idea but why are there things like idol dakimakura or gravure albums if there's zero sexuality in it?
I work on a really weird scale, for example i have no problem with Lollipop chainsaw because, well, to put it bluntly, everything is stupid in that game, but as in, stupid on purpose, all the baltant sexiness and violence and everything about this game is so ridiculous and handed with comedy and low level satire, it makes it easier to turn off my brain and just have fun.
Bayo is on a weird spot where it's like "we're not trying to be serious about it, but we kinda also are" that makes me feel a bit more critical, and it comes to me as less of a satire or sexual empowerment and more as "sex sells", and it kinda bothers me when i feel pandered to.
Yes, i know Bayo is supposed to be a female power fantasy, but that's not the point of the thread, the thread is asking if fan service specially bothers me and since bayo makes me feel like it's trying to "trick" me into trying it cause "it's sexy,lol", then i bothers me.
Boom. And Teddie's more well known and iconic anyway, so yeah.
Boom. And Teddie's more recognizable and iconic anyway, so yeah.
Kero Kero kids you'll love Wizard Barristers
I work on a really weird scale, for example i have no problem with Lollipop chainsaw because, well, to put it bluntly, everything is stupid in that game, but as in, stupid on purpose, all the baltant sexiness and violence and everything about this game is so ridiculous and handed with comedy and low level satire, it makes it easier to turn off my brain and just have fun.
Bayo is on a weird spot where it's like "we're not trying to be serious about it, but we kinda also are" that makes me feel a bit more critical, and it comes to me as less of a satire or sexual empowerment and more as "sex sells", and it kinda bothers me when i feel pandered to.
Yes, i know Bayo is supposed to be a female power fantasy, but that's not the point of the thread, the thread is asking if fan service specially bothers me and since bayo makes me feel like it's trying to "trick" me into trying it cause "it's sexy,lol", then i bothers me.
Boom. And Teddie's more recognizable and iconic anyway, so yeah.
Let me get this straight. You are okay with Lollipop Chainsaw because it's stupid, and you think Bayonetta is taking itself seriously?
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-;184828475 said:I know I'm late to the thread but, what's the problem with a character causing sexual arousal? What's wrong with that?
So having one's top open is inherently sexual, then?
If that's the case, then what about two-piece swimsuits? Are they inherently sexual, since they're basically nothing but underwear?
Having an open top is pretty standard for performers because it helps with air circulation and prevents excess sweating. It's not sexual, it's practical. In much the way a two-piece swimsuit is practical because it allows for greater mobility in the water.
It is we who sexualize these outfits. They themselves are not sexual.
Because of slimy music producers trying to make a quick buck.
Everything is sexualized for money at some point. But that doesn't mean its intent is to be sexual -- it just means someone MADE it sexual somewhere along the line, because they realized they could appeal to the lowest common denominator for a quick buck.
-Tom
It's Teddie, dude. Come on.I guess? Sort of makes it seem like a younger kids game when it's not is all. I mean I guess we could add an animal mascot to every thing ever and just show it off instead of actual designs.
Looking back on Atlus's badges they seem to shift between sexy stuff and Teddie so they should have just used the Teddie dancing picture and combine them like we've always wanted.Personally, I'd be for this, but from an advertising standpoint, Atlus seems to use the face of the game. M Bison Teddie was the face of Arena and so they used that for the badge.
Eh, it's the general gist, but it's more like, Bayoneta is not silly/stupid enough, yes i know bayo is not exactly a "super serial" game.
Like i said, it's a weird scale, it's how one can enjoy really stupid movies cause they are fun, yet be critical of smarter movies for other reasons.
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-;184828475 said:I know I'm late to the thread but, what's the problem with a character causing sexual arousal? What's wrong with that?
I can't speak for everyone that looks down upon fanservice, but simplifying it to people having some kind of issue with it because it causes sexual arousal is pretty telling of the miscommunication that goes on often in these threads. It doesn't help that there is constant needless antagonising, and unnecessary callbacks to it, when it can simply be ignored.I'd be curious to see if anyone has a good answer for you.
I don't have a problem with your suggestion but I don't have a problem with the original either so I was just throwing something out there.It's Teddie, dude. Come on.
The mental gymnastics are astounding.
Looking back on Atlus's badges they seem to shift between sexy stuff and Teddie so they should have just used the Teddie dancing picture and combine them like we've always wanted.
Yes I'm playing with a controller not my dick.
Idrc
Breasts aren't sexual. They serve to feed babies. It is you who is sexualizing them. Stop being a perv.Oh come on, the only difference is that Nigri has bare shoulders, she isn't showing way more skin at all. if Rise's costume is supposed to be nonsexualised then why is her top open with her bra exposed?
come on, Don't drop to shitty insults like this. I don't agree w/ everything he is saying (I am not into Idol stuff or Moe in general so I don't know if he's right or not) but you can at least respect his opinion and not do this shitty arrogant I'm better than you stuff. Its why these threads die...
Everything is sexualized for money at some point. But that doesn't mean its intent is to be sexual -- it just means someone MADE it sexual somewhere along the line, because they realized they could appeal to the lowest common denominator for a quick buck.
Serious question to those who like fanservice and wants it in all their games: do you play games alone or with other people present? And if it's the latter, what is the reaction between you and others?
If the people I'm hanging out with are fine with it sure. But as I live with 2 younger sisters (13 and 6) I can't bring myself to show anything with fanservice or even violence (like stabs or blood flying) around them. I keep it PG rated. I'm just very mindful around my personal surroundings and who I'm with. I have two friends that are against T&A in media and just talking about it drives him up a wall. In their case, it's due to religious beliefs so we tend to avoid talking about anything with fanservice in it just so we they don't have to complain about it (unless that was the intent haha). But other than that, it's not a problem. My friends and I watch anime all the time and unless it's a really bad scene that's dragging on way to long, nobody really cares. We don't watch ecchi/primarily fanservice based shows together anyway. Only time we really did that was with Bikini Warriors to see how laughably bad it was and the episodes were about 3 minutes long so it didn't matter. Other than that, nobody really watches them other than me since I watch almost every genre.And how do you feel about playing a game with lingering panty shots, voyeuristic shower scenes, and tits out the wazoo in the company of others? Is it comparable to watching porn with other people or what? Just trying to understand where people are coming from. Genuinely curious and not judging