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[Dinosaur Tamer]

As far as I've seen we're talking 12-45s. Is that a bigger range than 1-15s?

I just did the math and it does seem to be a bigger range, yes.

Also, there are lower cooldowns in Dota. Even if you only count level 1 cooldowns , which would not make a lot of sense in the first place. I can think of Powershot (9s), Arcane Bolt (starts at 5s - goes down to 2s) and Sticky Napalm (2s). So, not counting attack modifiers, Dota 2's range should be 2-45s by your logic.

 

[Pureauthor]

Stifling Dagger, 8 seconds, Phantom Strike, 5 seconds at max, Ice Path, 9 seconds, Plague Wards, 5 seconds...

 

[BeesEight]

If we go up to 8s then we get Shadow Shaman's Ether Shock, one of the most consistently useful nukes in the game

Track starts at 10 and scales down to 5. I think we could keep this game going for a good page or two.

 

[wakajawaka]

Thanks to Tobi's absence in the in-game client I discovered the spanish casting stream and I don't know if I want to go back to Tobi now.

Do you speak Spanish? :O

They remind me of some South American Football channels I watch sometimes on internet for Málaga matches. They are good, but not my style at all.

 

[Volodja]

I just did the math and it does seem to be a bigger range, yes.

Also, there are lower cooldowns in Dota. Even if you only count level 1 cooldowns , which would not make a lot of sense in the first place. I can think of Powershot (9s), Arcane Bolt (stats at 5s - goes down to 2s) and Sticky Napalm (2s). So, not counting attack modifiers, Dota 2's range should be 2-45s by your logic.

Well, his point about the range being bigger might be literally wrong but it is completely understandable.
The difference between a 1 second cooldown and a 15 seconds cooldown is relatively much bigger than the one between a 30 seconds cooldown and a 45 seconds cooldown.
The problem, as it's been showed, is that his assumption that Dota cooldowns start from 15 seconds has no basis in reality.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

Well, his point about the range being bigger might be literally wrong but it is completely understandable.
The difference between a 1 second cooldown and a 15 seconds cooldown is relatively much bigger than the one between a 30 seconds cooldown and a 45 seconds cooldown.
The problem, as it's been showed, is that his assumption that Dota cooldowns start from 15 seconds has no basis in reality.

Oh, I realize that. It was supposed to be a joke. And yes, Dota cooldowns don't start at 12 seconds.

 

[Volodja]

Oh, it was 12 seconds, not 15, my bad.
Still wrong, obviously, even with just level 1 spells.

 

[lazorexplosion]

Those two characters look like they have low-cooldown AoE abilities, which is cool, but why is that significantly different from a low-cooldown attack modifier? I mean, it sounds like you're specifically getting hung up on the lack of spammable AoE damage? (weather it be cone or radius)

Dota does have a couple of those though. Zeus has his Arc Lightning, Storm Spirit has Static Remnant...

Because coming from league I find the much less frequent ability use (high cooldowns, high mana costs) a bit boring, like I spend way too much time just autoattacking. So you get why autoattack modifiers don't really float my boat in this discussion.

Arc Lightning (Zeus) has a 1.75 second cooldown.

Thanks, I haven't checked out that hero yet.

Lots of skills have 8 seconds of cooldown or around there, right from level 1.

OK cooldowns are only an aspect of what I'm talking about.

I want heroes that have frequently used harassment, preferably skillshot based abilities because I really enjoy playing that style of champion in lol and I'm not really finding it so far in Dota 2. If people can recommend heroes like that, it would be a big help getting into dota 2. I only really tried a few, ogre magi came closest to floating my boat but i miss having skillshots to land. Zeus sounds promising

 

[Baha]

Do you speak Spanish? :O

They remind me of some South American Football channels I watch sometimes on internet for Málaga matches. They are good, but not my style at all.

My spanish is terrible but I do enjoy listening to spanish commentators in futbol games and the cast for the Na'vi vs 3DMAX game was surprisingly good.

 

[undu]

Thanks to Tobi's absence in the in-game client I discovered the spanish casting stream and I don't know if I want to go back to Tobi now.

who's the spanish caster? I'd like to hear him on a stream

I want heroes that have frequently used harassment, preferably skillshot based abilities because I really enjoy playing that style of champion in lol and I'm not really finding it so far in Dota 2.

Batrider with his sticky napalm and Shadow Demon with its shadow poison may be what you're looking for.

 

[Volodja]

Because coming from league I find the much less frequent ability use (high cooldowns, high mana costs) a bit boring, like I spend way too much time just autoattacking. So you get why autoattack modifiers don't really float my boat in this discussion.


Thanks, I haven't checked out that hero yet.


OK cooldowns are only an aspect of what I'm talking about.

I want heroes that have frequently used harassment, preferably skillshot based abilities because I really enjoy playing that style of champion in lol and I'm not really finding it so far in Dota 2. If people can recommend heroes like that, it would be a big help getting into dota 2. I only really tried a few, ogre magi came closest to floating my boat but i miss having skillshots to land. Zeus sounds promising

If you want skillshots, Zeus is not your hero.

Try Windrunner.
Powerhot is a pretty standard skillshot with channeling and Shackleshot is kind of a spin on the concept of skillshot. You target it on a unit, but you need it to latch on something behind that unit.

 

[The Technomancer]

If you want skillshots, Zeus is not your hero.

Try Windrunner.
Powerhot is a skillshot and Shackleshot is kind of a spin on the concept of skillshot. You target it on a unit, but you need it to latch on something behind that unit.

Windrunner or Jakiro. Jakiro basically has three skillshots, although they're on 10, 12-9, and 60s cooldowns, three cones of damage he lays out in front of him. Or maybe Magnus for a melee spin on the concept, Shockwave is a line attack and both Skewer and Reverse Polarity require positioning instead of targeting.

 

[lazorexplosion]

I just did the math and it does seem to be a bigger range, yes.

Also, there are lower cooldowns in Dota. Even if you only count level 1 cooldowns , which would not make a lot of sense in the first place. I can think of Powershot (9s), Arcane Bolt (starts at 5s - goes down to 2s) and Sticky Napalm (2s). So, not counting attack modifiers, Dota 2's range should be 2-45s by your logic.

That's being facetious. In league you have abilites that range from stuff you are going to and can afford to use much less than once per wave to basically every wave to abilities you are going to look to harass with multiple times every wave affordably. That makes a big range of playstyles. The actual difference in playstyle between a 9s high mana cost ability and a 45s high mana cost ability is just not the same feel; from a lol background it all falls into the stuff you can afford to use infrequently category.

 

[Des0lar]

Because coming from league I find the much less frequent ability use (high cooldowns, high mana costs) a bit boring, like I spend way too much time just autoattacking. So you get why autoattack modifiers don't really float my boat in this discussion.


Thanks, I haven't checked out that hero yet.


OK cooldowns are only an aspect of what I'm talking about.

I want heroes that have frequently used harassment, preferably skillshot based abilities because I really enjoy playing that style of champion in lol and I'm not really finding it so far in Dota 2. If people can recommend heroes like that, it would be a big help getting into dota 2. I only really tried a few, ogre magi came closest to floating my boat but i miss having skillshots to land. Zeus sounds promising

If you want harassment and skillshots play Windrunner. But I hope you are not planning on playing one hero exclusively, if you have done that in LoL.

And again, in Dota there is much more to do in lane than just autoattacking. Stack camps, pull camps, TP to other lane for gank, deny and lasthit already are pretty demanding in terms of attention. Maintaining a creep equilibrium is also important. Then there is rune control, warding / dewarding

There is a lot to do without casting a lot of spells.

 

[BeesEight]

I want heroes that have frequently used harassment, preferably skillshot based abilities because I really enjoy playing that style of champion in lol and I'm not really finding it so far in Dota 2. If people can recommend heroes like that, it would be a big help getting into dota 2. I only really tried a few, ogre magi came closest to floating my boat but i miss having skillshots to land. Zeus sounds promising

Meepo

Spoiler

As mentioned, Windrunner is pretty good. I'd add Batrider or Shadow Demon to the list as well.

 

[The Technomancer]

That's being facetious. In league you have abilites that range from stuff you are going to and can afford to use much less than once per wave to basically every wave to abilities you are going to look to harass with multiple times every wave affordably. That makes a big range of playstyles. The actual difference in playstyle between a 9s high mana cost ability and a 45s high mana cost ability is just not the same feel; from a lol background it all falls into the stuff you can afford to use infrequently category.

I suspect you might like Jakiro, his skills are mana intensive but they're also high-impact and you want to use them in the early game.

 

[wakajawaka]

who's the spanish caster? I'd like to hear him on a stream

Antena Dota / Corsario

They are from Chile, I think

 

[la flama blanca]

Any more games today?

 

[Volodja]

Any more games today?

Group B should start now.

 

[JustinBB7]

Yay more James torturing Tobi/Godz/Draskyl.

 

[close to the edge]

Yay more James torturing Tobi/Godz/Draskyl.

ROFL this is hilarious. "I'm very slippery below the waist."

 

[Fragamemnon]

Group B should start now.

The EG game is up on DOTA TV w/ LD casting w/ audio.

 

[Sibylus]

I'd second the Batrider recommendation in your case. Sticky Napalm has a 3 second cooldown, you use it constantly in the early game, and once you go up to about 4 stacks or more on the opposing enemy hero, the amplified damage for your autoattacks and skills becomes rapidly lethal and allows you to dive them. Add in a ground-targeted skillshot (Flamebreak) that can be used to secure a kill, your safety, or strand an enemy hero on the map terrain... and I think you'd like him.

 

[Schweinehund]

Mirana/Pudge/Kunkka/Shadowfiend are the most skillshot dependent heros. Mirana's arrow has a similar concept to ashe's ult except it has a 20 second cd and it stuns for 5 seconds (based on distance traveled), it cannot go through enemy creeps and it doesn't travel the whole map. If you haven't practiced these heroes I wouldn't recommend playing them for your first match.

After that Windrunner is very skill shot dependent with shackle and power shot. Out of all the skillshots in the game hers has the lowest cd and is used for damage. I think varys has a similar skill in league.

Invoker has sunstrike, which is a targeted nuke that deals a ton of damage to a target if you can get it alone. It's global, think of it as kog'maws ult but far less spammy and way more damage.

Beyond that, clockwerk, slark, meepo, venomancer, lina, jakiro and probably a few more have atleast one skill that requires timing to land.

 

[Volodja]

The EG game is up on DOTA TV w/ LD casting w/ audio.

Oh lord, I had the Starladder page open instead of the Dreamhack one, the client likes to exchange their position in the Watch tab.

 

[Zzoram]

Also early mana costs are obscene compared to lol, which means that you can't afford to do much more than autoattack for long periods of time compared to league where abilities are used frequently for harassment, and I find that makes laning waaaay more fun, because it's a champions abilities that do most to make them feel distinctive.

Early laning in Dota is more about last hits and denies and harassing when the opponent overextends. Range heroes have an easier time harassing melee heroes so your team may want to pair up 1 melee and 1 range for the top/bottom lanes. Early mana costs being high means you have to be more thoughtful about when you use your abilities.

Just worrying about last hits and denies alone typically takes a lot of attention already so not being to spam spells early on doesn't bother me.

 

[Zzoram]

I get that, but I don't like that. If I had to play Cassiopeia or Anivia with mainly just auto attacking they would be pretty boringly samey because it's their abilities that make them unique. That's the early game feel I get with dota 2, yeah I can pick a champion with radically different kits but most of the time I don't feel the difference because of the heavy mana limitations. And the flip side is the big impact abilities feel too big. Like I saw a game and this guy get ganked and he never even got to move. There wasn't even a skillshot he had a chance to avoid.

That's why map awareness is important. Your team should be calling when enemy heroes go missing from the lane and your support heroes should be putting wards around the map so you can watch enemy movements. If a good ganker or several heroes disappear, you hug your towers and move away from the forest or pair up with allies or spend your gold because you know they're coming. If nobody calls when Riki hits level 6 and you're by yourself on the enemy side of the river, you and your team are making a punishable mistake.

 

[Fragamemnon]

oh god this wisp + leshrac lane is hilarious

 

[Zzoram]

Was Dota tv that much delayed compared to the stream during TI2 ? because it seems that dota tv is 2 minutes delayed if not longer.

IIRC all Dota2 in-game viewing is 2 minutes delayed so you can't cheat and tell the players what's going on.

 

[Zzoram]

I've been playing for around a year and I still think the courier and the secret shop are by far the dumbest parts of Dota. To this day I am still surprised at the stuff you can make in the side shop and which secret shop items are also hiding in the side shop. It serves very little purpose other than to make things more complicated. I would be okay if you could buy everything but regen in the side shop and the courier existed solely for early level regen ferrying/bottle crowing, but other than that, I don't think I'll ever like that mechanic.

The secret shop is there to add an element of risk to building the more powerful items. Sometimes you get ambushed there.

Also, it means if the enemy team takes out all your towers and you have to defend by staying in-base, it becomes insanely risky to get to the secret shop.

 

[Zzoram]

Longer cooldowns and higher mana cost means you can't carelessly use spells.

Also, many heroes have mana draining abilities and those wouldn't be very good if mana costs were low and mana regeneration was fast for all heroes. Some heroes especially with core items do regenerate mana super fast but not most of them.

 

[Complex Shadow]

Anyone else rush scepter on warlock? I usually try to get orb after.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

oh god this wisp + leshrac lane is hilarious

i'm still wondering what they were thinking.

 

[wakajawaka]

Their NP looks like a good player. Did some fun to watch plays at least.

 

[la flama blanca]

got a tournament cape, cool

 

[n0b]

Anyone else rush scepter on warlock? I usually try to get orb after.

No, scepter makes his golems weaker. First luxury item I go is always refresher. Usually I build a few team utility items first though, Drum, Mek, Arcanes, maybe a basi/vlads or Veil if team needs it, Necronomicon sometimes.

 

[SamVimes]

A Warlock with aghs refresher is probably the best teamfight hero in the game. Not so much for double ult but because of double bonds everything just melts.

The problem is that until you get to that point (which is not easy at all considering he doesn't have any fast way of clearing creeps) you're pretty much useless for the rest of your team.

 

[Complex Shadow]

No, scepter makes his golems weaker. First luxury item I go is always refresher. Usually I build a few team utility items first though, Drum, Mek, Arcanes, maybe a basi/vlads or Veil if team needs it, Necronomicon sometimes.

What. Really. I need to go look this up.

 

[wakajawaka]

What. Really. I need to go look this up.

Be careful because if you rush it you'll lack lots of mana to use the combos.

 

[TheThunder]

Nice to hear that NASL sound guy is still getting work

 

[Aselith]

Because coming from league I find the much less frequent ability use (high cooldowns, high mana costs) a bit boring, like I spend way too much time just autoattacking. So you get why autoattack modifiers don't really float my boat in this discussion.


Thanks, I haven't checked out that hero yet.


OK cooldowns are only an aspect of what I'm talking about.

I want heroes that have frequently used harassment, preferably skillshot based abilities because I really enjoy playing that style of champion in lol and I'm not really finding it so far in Dota 2. If people can recommend heroes like that, it would be a big help getting into dota 2. I only really tried a few, ogre magi came closest to floating my boat but i miss having skillshots to land. Zeus sounds promising

Try Clockwerk. His cooldowns are pretty low (15-20 sec I believe) and he has two skillshots and a skilltrap. One of the most fun heroes in the game.

 

[Balehead]

James casting, amazing.

 

[Zzoram]

What. Really. I need to go look this up.

Scepter makes 2 weaker golems instead of 1 stronger golem.

The combined HP of the 2 golems is higher than for the 1 golem, but if there is a lot of AOE then it may be better to stick with 1 golem with more HP.

 

[bzm]

Scepter makes 2 weaker golems instead of 1 stronger golem.

The combined HP of the 2 golems is higher than for the 1 golem, but if there is a lot of AOE then it may be better to stick with 1 golem with more HP.

The immolate stacks, though, doesn't it?
With refresher and aghs thats like.... four radiances bro

 

[Drkirby]

The immolate stacks, though, doesn't it?
With refresher and aghs thats like.... four radiances bro

A radiance of 250 AoE. But yes, it does stack. Plus, there is Flaming Fists, the 60% chance to do bonus damage to near by units in a 300 AoE. I'm pretty sure that one doesn't hut the target though.

One thing I found really useful in the early game that most people don't do for some reason, is casting the heal on the golem. It works really great when having it tank a tower.

 

[Complex Shadow]

A radiance of 250 AoE. But yes, it does stack. Plus, there is Flaming Fists, the 60% chance to do bonus damage to near by units in a 300 AoE. I'm pretty sure that one doesn't hut the target though.

One thing I found really useful in the early game that most people don't do for some reason, is casting the heal on the golem. It works really great when having it tank a tower.

holy shit didn't know you could do this.

i still like scepter. ill try to get orb, and ignore scepter, but having 2 golems to mess around with still sounds fun.

 

[J0dy77]

Can anyone help me out with a complete noob question? The items that I'm receiving at the end of matches? Where are they going? My backpack is empty, I'm assuming they're part of a set that I have to complete but I was hoping I could see what has been earned thus far.

 

[The Technomancer]

Can anyone help me out with a complete noob question? The items that I'm receiving at the end of matches? Where are they going? My backpack is empty, I'm assuming they're part of a set that I have to complete but I was hoping I could see what has been earned thus far.

You probably aren't receiving those, they're going to other players. You'll know when you get an item, the noise is louder and there's a glow around the box.

 

[BeesEight]

holy shit didn't know you could do this.

i still like scepter. ill try to get orb, and ignore scepter, but having 2 golems to mess around with still sounds fun.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Scepter is 1100 gold cheaper than Refresher and has a better build up as well for a hero that is typically regulated to the hard support role. The Point Booster and Ogre Club provide more in survivability than a Perseverance or Oblivion Staff.

I'd agree that the Refresher first is more ideal but the reality of most games is that you likely won't be able to afford both and Aghanim's will make you live longer which is of prime importance for a support.

Though, really, Warlock will probably be spending most of his time getting a Mek, Drums, Arcane Boots and wards than saving for these items.

Also, why is it called an Ogre Club when it is clearly an axe?

 

[The Technomancer]

Also, why is it called an Ogre Club when it is clearly an axe?

Huh, that's called Ogre Club? Its classified mentally for me as "+10 Strength axe"