Huevos de Oro
Member
What's the best item build for Omni Knight?
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Dota 2 Beta Thread 3: Gunnar Optiks Required [Faster Loading]
- Thread starter Artanisix
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Ha, I can't actually remember what the other two are called. I think the agility one is Blades of Alacrity? And the intelligence one is Wizard's Staff maybe?
They really should just be renamed to "+10 stat stick."
Huevos de Oro
Member
Thanks!
Don't listen to Archie. Soul Ring > Phase > Radiance > S&Y
OH MAN TIME TO FARM A RADIANCE NEXT TIME I GO WARLOCK FOR THE FIVE STACK BURNIN' DOWN THE HOUSE.
(First of all agreed on he's a support so probably can't get either and should focus on team support items, and even luxuries like sheep would be much better if he can get to them instead, but this discussion is based on whether he can get towards one of them)
Anyway, did this argument in the last thread. The short of it is Warlock already has great stats growth, has long cooldowns, and once the golems are down in a fight people pretty much stop giving a shit about warlock. If they don't give a shit about you its better that your golems have the survivability than you, and when you go aghs your golems each lose the same amount of health that you gain for getting the aghs. (Around 400) Besides that you get two bkb piercing stuns and enough mana and health regen to sustain yourself on the map a lot longer than you could with aghs, with everything you buy being easier to get than any aghs part except for the recipe.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Ogres are too dumb to know the difference.
What? Its 539 dps. For up to 25 seconds. Fatal bonds yo, its ridic. That's without attacking (around 200 damage per attack) or using shadow word (another 400 damage) being factored in at all. Or, you know, teammates.
Ha, true this discussion is mostly academic.
But I'm not sure that once you fire Bonds and Offerings you'll drop from the enemy radar. I think Upheaval can really dominate a fight for your team and once that big mud puddle appears I find (most) enemies generally direct their ire towards you. And since you'll be pretty squishy, it's not much of an investment to throw some damage your way and finish you off. The bonuses from Refresher are great for sustaining out on the map but they don't offer much for the actual fight once spells start flying whereas more HP will always benefit you in a fight.
And the two Golems can survive for a bit even with the reduced health since I find no one bothers attacking them until they're the last ones standing. If the enemy knows you're carrying these big items (Aghas or Refreshers) you could jump in priority as well and it could become difficult to survive long enough to get off two barrages of abilities.
The recipe is pretty expensive too.
Course, if you're a farming mid Warlock then the build up to Refresher is definitely a lot better than Aghanim's. So it definitely depends on where you're playing.
evilpigking
Member
Sigh such a losing streak. Got flamed all last game for "not helping" when the team was making stupid decisions like pushing across river when down to just 2 t3s against them all having t2 up and levels. When they finally decide to defend at base I got yelled at for not charging the low ground against the push...sigh
As sand king the best thing to do is wait for them to bunch beneath the t3 and epi...doesnt do shit if they are spread out on the low ground so no, I won't go down.
As sand king the best thing to do is wait for them to bunch beneath the t3 and epi...doesnt do shit if they are spread out on the low ground so no, I won't go down.
Yeah well, tbh, that's the only case where you should be farming either of them on Warlock. Otherwise you are much better suited to support items (Arcane/Mek/Basi->Vlads) into Necronomicon.
User 85168
Banned
What's also fun is getting an Orb of Venom early and maxing Heal and Degen Aura, with just one point in Repel. Not as good or solid as the normal build, but it lets you be more aggressive, especially with a partner.
Edit: A good technique is getting a smack on them and run couple steps ahead and immediately healing. If they're not really expecting this, they'll think they can still outrun ya, but with the orb, you are almost guaranteed to get a full heal on them.
Got it, thanks. After posting that I got a chest that went to me. The other items were always greyed out. Is it just random how items are rewarded? Or does playing better raise your chances?
wakajawaka
Member
Don't know if it's the best, but damn its fun.
People dont pick it up cause of the micro involved.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its completely random. You get one guaranteed non-chest item every time your battle-whatever level goes up, and a slim chance of non-chest items in other games.
I dont think there is even that much involved. No more than Pandas ult. Its also great against pubs who play invis heroes and dont realize the level 3 gives true sight. And even if you dont want to micro, it still gives good pushing power.
I think any micro turns most people off. I know friends that won't touch Chen and Enchantress. And I'm terrible at RTS games like Starcraft but I do alright with them even if I'm not playing like Puppey. One of my favourite heroes is Lycan and I can tell you my micro of the wolves is atrocious.
Technosteve
Banned
Level 3 necro book is great vs stealth. Bad part getting the gold to level to level 3. The mana burn is actually the better skill. True sight is just a bonus.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
See, I just feel like what they're describing places severe restrictions on the ability effect space you can explore. As long as Riki is in the game, for example, abilities granting true sight are going to count as hard counters, and if you cut hard counters from your game then you limit what kinds of abilities you can make. One of the things I like the most about Dota 2 is discovering unexpected interactions between abilities, and a lot of the more interesting design space for abilities will involve effects that are extremely good against other abilities.
I haven't played LoL but I've watched friends play as well as some match broadcasts, and it seems like a game that's very heavy on AoE damage, attack modifiers, and stat buffs.
The_Player
Member
Dota does hide lots of unobvious things inside it.
The_Player
Member
That's quite a lot of cash that could of spent in a more cost-efficient way.
On the one hand, the designers of LoL should really stop talking about game mechanics in Dota.
On the other hand, I always find these posts hilarious as the amount of mental gymnastics they perform in order to justify their terrible design choices is always amusing. Obviously, LoL can't have hard counters since they essentially only have 5 kinds of champions due to their design choice of making 5 distinct roles and forming all new champions to those roles. If they made a hard counter, then that one champion would destroy 20% of the roster single handedly.
Course, they don't like to admit their design process is incredibly shallow so instead we have this circular logic argument instead.
It's cute they think having no "hard counters" makes the game more skillful when really all they've accomplished is that the drafting is ridiculously shallow. Every team will have an AP mid, AS and support bot, tanky solo top and jungler and thus the only real excitement for viewers is hoping that teams don't stick with the ten or so champions Riot has decided to not nerf into the ground.
At least... that's how it was when I followed it. Who knows, maybe the meta has magically been broken wide open.
But I doubt it. I really wonder where these people think their expert knowledge of game design has come from. Most of them didn't even work on Dota and, thus, have no real idea what "problems" that game faces. They're like a bunch of preschoolers standing outside an art gallery trying to make finger paintings of the masterpieces seen through the frosted glass.
Usually I just buy a gem and make an extra effort to not die. Yeah, many times I really do just die within a minute and the damn thing is gone, but it more often then not works out pretty well, and helps out a lot. Many easy wins from just grabbing a gem at 20 minutes.
SteveWinwood
Member
im done with this game
if i wanted to play rock paper sissors id go to the playground down the street
if i wanted to play rock paper sissors id go to the playground down the street
A friend of mine works for Riot games, who previously worked for Valve, and I've heard a lot of interesting tidbits of information about the design philosophy of Dota vs. Lol. A lot of it based on psychology and research (his job is the research). For example denying will never be a part of Lol because they don't want gameplay elements that are based on drawing negative emotions from your opponents rather than positive emotions for yourself (paraphrasing since I can't recall exactly what he said). They're very different games, from a philosophical standpoint.
The_Player
Member
Riot confirmed to get rid of ganking, killing enemy heroes, winning / losing games.
They've posted a lot of the... philosophy behind their design as well. I... hm... would like to see the studies they perform to come to their conclusions. I don't have any insight into their process, but from the posts designers have made it seems they are attempting to extract conclusions from information that they haven't fully tested or don't fully understand.
Also, it seems their design philosophy and their marketing strategies are often at odds. If you don't want a game with elements that draw on negative emotions then you should be designing co-operative experiences and not competitive. And yet, they funnel tons of money into insuring that they're the forerunners of the competitive e-sports scene.
(But I really, really want to see the work that brought them to the conclusion that denying should be removed because it causes negative emotions in opponents. That argument always struck me as something they came up with after the fact when, really, they said they removed it before for simplicity's sake.)
How does this work with things like dying? Doesn't killing your opponent draw more negative emotions?
SaberVulcan
Member
He should post a AMA or something, I would be interested in what kind of education/experience he has to work for gaming companies in the research dept.
The_Player
Member
Denying is anti-fun, therefore it has no place in their game.
Well, when you get a kill, you get gold and experience. That's nice. Same when you get a last hit. Gold pops out of the creep and all that.
When you deny, you don't get anything except for intangible lane positioning. I guess that's also part of why the jungle works differently in LoL. You can't stop camps from spawning with wards.
I think you guys are missing the point. The general idea behind no denying and skill shots is that you won't feel too outclassed by your opponent. Instead of thinking "his aim is so good", you think "my dodging is not good enough", instead of thinking "his last hitting is too good", you think "I'm not farming fast enough to keep up".
Denying is awesome and with the little pop up, is as satisfying as a last hit.
That sounds right. Being middle with an expert denier on the other side and falling really behind in level and gold really makes you feel like a scrub. I do find myself really impressed by the other guy as well though.
The_Player
Member
big_bang_theory_sarcasm.png
Riot has long struck me as being one of those "DESIGN IS LAW" studios, where immutable designer rules are more valuable than being flexible with regard to the unexpected and novel. Played the game for over a year and there's so much about it I've long since forgotten, nigh everything falls so close to the median line that there's precious little of Dota's peculiarity and outliers that gripped me.
I guess that's to prevent noobs from overfeeding the other team. However, shutting down a specific hero on the enemy team repeatedly because you're trying to stunt their growth should be a viable strategy that gets rewarded since going for a gank is always risky.
I think you can also buy shit from anywhere on the map and it appears in your inventory. LoL is truly easy mode.
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