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[McCheese]

Dreams allows the player to create things much much more complex and bigger than Project Sparks.
Don't worry about them losing money, they are still in the green from LBP cosmetics and they are a small team of 30-50 devs. It costs Sony peanuts to keep them around compared to studios like Japan Studio that have very little to show this gen for the amount of people they employ.
Also, Dreams purpose is not profitability, its to give Sony positive criticism by funding something that would be seen as a crazy risk by any other publisher and that vastly increases the diversity of their offerings.

Going to disagree with a few of those points.

Dreams isn't a goodwill gesture by Sony, It's a SaaS title that will require a lot of ongoing support and updates. How long it's supported for, will be directly linked to how well it sells, and how much money it continues to make from IAP. Once it's no longer profitable to support it, the plug will be pulled.

And this leads to my other problem, I like games like Mario Maker as you can sit down for an hour and produce something that's fun, but that you haven't poured you're whole life into, and won't be too upset about when it's no longer playable. It lets you dip your toes into the game design water for a bit and wiggle them about, without taking things too seriously.

But who is Dreams for?

I found trying to create anything in Dreams to be a cumbersome, unintuitive, and frustratingly slow experience. In comparison, I found both Unreal Engine and Unity to be easier to pick up, thanks to the wealth of tutorials and, well, proper controls. I cannot fathom why anybody who is planning to invest a serious amount of time in Dreams, would not just apply that time to make an actual game, in an actual game engine, that they then own the IP for and can do what they like with, and that isn't tied into how long Sony decide to keep Dreams running for.

I honestly think people look at Dreams cutesy interface and think it's somehow an entry point into game development when in reality, it's harder to learn and trickier to use than the (free!) tools we use to produce actual retail games.

The modelling, audio and gameplay stuff all being intertwined is neat, but man.. that's like the only positive thing I have to say about it from my initial few hours trying it out.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I played all three and even Some Modnation Racers. Yes, they were cool games. However, the levels the community made were never as good as the MM levels. The new modes and games people were making in LBP3 were never as good as the games they were imitating. They didn't look as good and they didn't control as well.

That's the exact same as all the Dreams stuff I've seen. It doesn't look or control as well as the games they're imitating. It's just like DeviantArt for gamedevs.

And tht is understandable and your opinion but tht in no way takes away from innovation of the game or its effect on the gaming landscape.

 

[n0razi]

This has 'No Man's Sky' levels of hype right now but at least MM has the budget and resources to actually pull it off

Wait, are you serious or trolling? Microsoft released project spark in 2014 which did exactly the same thing..

It's not who does it first.... it's who does it right with the correct balance of substance/usability/convenience/marketability/mass-appeal... ie look at Apple

 

[Ar¢tos]

Going to disagree with a few of those points.

Dreams isn't a goodwill gesture by Sony, It's a SaaS title that will require a lot of ongoing support and updates. How long it's supported for, will be directly linked to how well it sells, and how much money it continues to make from IAP. Once it's no longer profitable to support it, the plug will be pulled.

And this leads to my other problem, I like games like Mario Maker as you can sit down for an hour and produce something that's fun, but that you haven't poured you're whole life into, and won't be too upset about when it's no longer playable. It lets you dip your toes into the game design water for a bit and wiggle them about, without taking things too seriously.

But who is Dreams for?

I found trying to create anything in Dreams to be a cumbersome, unintuitive, and frustratingly slow experience. In comparison, I found both Unreal Engine and Unity to be easier to pick up, thanks to the wealth of tutorials and, well, proper controls. I cannot fathom why anybody who is planning to invest a serious amount of time in Dreams, would not just apply that time to make an actual game, in an actual game engine, that they then own the IP for and can do what they like with, and that isn't tied into how long Sony decide to keep Dreams running for.

I honestly think people look at Dreams cutesy interface and think it's somehow an entry point into game development when in reality, it's harder to learn and trickier to use than the (free!) tools we use to produce actual retail games.

The modelling, audio and gameplay stuff all being intertwined is neat, but man.. that's like the only positive thing I have to say about it from my initial few hours trying it out.

Dreams is in EA, Unity and Unreal are finished products. There are a lot of tutorials and features still missing from Dreams.
Both Unity and Unreal require a PC, Dreams doesn't.
You are comparing two very different things.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I don't get this comment. You do know tht LBP lived up to the hype right? It has a 95 meta, sold multimillion and everyone from Microsoft (spark) to Nintendo (Mario maker) copied the concept on console of create and share. It was and still is one of the most innovative games of the last several gens

I'll just drop this here because sometimes ppl forget some games importance and innovation after the years pass by...

LittleBigPlanet (Video Game 2008) - Awards - IMDb

LittleBigPlanet (Video Game 2008) - Awards, nominations, and wins

m.imdb.com

LBP is a good game, but it didn't change the landscape of gaming. It wasn't the most important game of its generation or even its year. Dreams will be the same. I can see it being a good game, but it won't go beyond that.

 

[Gamernyc78]

LBP is a good game, but it didn't change the landscape of gaming. It wasn't the most important game of its generation or even its year. Dreams will be the same. I can see it being a good game, but it won't go beyond that.

Right, thts why it didn't win all those awards, got 95 meta and countless companies didn't try to imitate its share and create formula on console.

Bro you can have your opinion, it's cool but I'll stand by mine and those of many other gamers and professionals as well.

 

[PhilipDoesMatter]

I don't knkw what Dreams is. Is it a tool to create games?

 

[Tripolygon]

I don't knkw what Dreams is. Is it a tool to create games?

It's a tool to create whatever you want but of course there are limitations.

 

[sendit]

Erhmm..

I'll pick it up in 2 years or so when people have made a bunch of cool shit. Not gonna pay full price for Sony and MM to let me make my own game. LBP was awesome with all the levels the community made, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay to make them. Hope those that do have a good time though.

I agree in a sense that you do not retain ownership of what you create.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

There's plenty of sandbox type software that are "Design your own thing within our engine."

While they may be popular for a while, I feel as if there's little in the way that it could actually "Change the foundation of entertainment."

Dreams is a prototype of the way we may all one day consume digital content in a world where art, movies, music, models, and games mix. Dreams is like the internet we always wanted but never got.

Those lines right there are probably the biggest gripe I have with the hype of this game...engine, whatever you want to call it.
Entertainment already combines art mediums to produce a product; models, movies, and music are already considered art, a video game combines those arts to produce an entertainment product.

The internet we always wanted? Sci-Fi media? Having uneducated knowledge of current and future technologies, and the marketing and entertainment that further supports these unrealistic infatuations is what lead us to calling servers "The Cloud," instead of just understanding it's just a server like it's always been.

If people have misconceptions about technology already, and need support channels to reset a password instead of using the "Forgot your password?" right under the log in box, they're not going to want to sit down and take the time to make a in depth complicated game, even if the tools are stream lined and simple. If that were the case, you'd see average every day people talking about what game they created, instead of complaining they dropped in their disk and have to wait for an install.
EDIT: They're also not going to want to have to sift through the massive amount of stuff the platform may grow to have, if it does become Pokemon GO esque popular. They're going to want a clear, easily indentifiable product so they feel confident in their purchase from the start *Cough*Early-Access-DLS-complaints-from-us-currently*Cough*

This will be a niche product for creators, and will have a normal decline in end users, as with **similar** games; for example, LPB and Minecraft.

My honest opinion is that the next big step in any interactive entertainment medium is changing the way we interact with the product; AR, SR, VR being the next steps towards anything that would have any significant change in our slice of interactive entertainment.

There's only so many things you can do with "Press A to do this," and keep it interesting in a longevity viewpoint.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Right, thts why it didn't win all those awards, got 95 meta and countless companies didn't try to imitate its share and create formula on console.

Bro you can have your opinion, it's cool but I'll stand by mine and those of many other gamers and professionals as well.

Like I said - it is a good game. However, it was not the best of its generation or year. I know you are a fan for the franchise, but c'mon man. Your hyperbole is tiresome.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Like I said - it is a good game. However, it was not the best of its generation or year. I know you are a fan for the franchise, but c'mon man. Your hyperbole is tiresome.

Tiresome? Whoa In the feelings, like I care if you agree or not. Your downplaying is "tiresome" see what I did?

BTW I'm not even that big of a fan of the franchise I just have eyes and know what it brought to the table. I shall end this convo here and agree to disagree.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Tiresome? Whoa In the feelings, like I care if you agree or not. Your downplaying is "tiresome" see what I did?

BTW I'm not even that big of a fan of the franchise I just have eyes and know what it brought to the table. I shall end this convo here and agree to disagree.

There is no agreement as you are factually wrong. LBP is not a highly important game to the industry. It didn't "change" gaming and almost everything it did was simple iteration on custom levels done by other games. As I stated before: It was a good game and it will be remembered as such - but your continued hyperbolic claims are delusional.

People are not going to be looking back in 10 years and say that this game forever changed the gaming landscape. This isn't a DOOM. This isn't even a Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Just face reality, mate.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I love alot of what I played but it suffers from what Lbp suffers, the floaty controls. I wish ppl could create games where it didnt feel like your floating or gliding.

It suffers from 'floaty controls'? It's not game, it's a development suite. The character moves as the developer wants.

 

[Enjay]

Loving how all this viral marketing just flat out turned people off this game. Take notes industry, the hyperbole has started annoying people.

 

[Dr. Claus]

It suffers from 'floaty controls'? It's not game, it's a development suite. The character moves as the developer wants.

Its as much of a game as Super Mario Maker is.

 

[01011001]

It suffers from 'floaty controls'? It's not game, it's a development suite. The character moves as the developer wants.

the issue is that most people will end up using the pre-made character controller they put in the game.
and as is with all their games, THEIR character controller is absolute shit.

and this shows early signs of what I was saying earlier. most people don't have the time or expertise to make actually good games with this.
this will lead to there being only a small handful of actually good stuff on it, which will also take a long time to even surface.

the average player will be bored after a month of its release and the game will dwell as a niche product.

how many people out there will actually set aside time to basically develop a game in an engine that people have to buy to even play your game, which you can't monetize at all and which will be limited by the engine running on PS4 with almost zero capability for optimization on the creatiors end?

even the dude that made that MGS demo just used the pre-made character controller, all that guy did was import textures and build a bunch of squares... you can literally do that in Unity within an hour if you learn how the engine works for maybe a few days.

Dreams will not be a big deal... bet

 

[Gamernyc78]

There is no agreement as you are factually wrong. LBP is not a highly important game to the industry. It didn't "change" gaming and almost everything it did was simple iteration on custom levels done by other games. As I stated before: It was a good game and it will be remembered as such - but your continued hyperbolic claims are delusional.

People are not going to be looking back in 10 years and say that this game forever changed the gaming landscape. This isn't a DOOM. This isn't even a Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Just face reality, mate.

You edgy and cool, know it all. I'll take your word for it and I'll "face reality" in your bizarre world. Foh with tht bs mate!

 

[Gamernyc78]

It suffers from 'floaty controls'? It's not game, it's a development suite. The character moves as the developer wants.

I dont know gribble I wish tht was true or maybe all those are missing how to make the platforming characters more grounded because just like in Lbp I felt the same weightlessness in every platformer game I played in Dreams. And yes I am in early access.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

 

[SonGoku]

Only Sony is capable of making a game like this. God bless that company

Speaking of Dreams, I'm planning on creating my own hack n' slash game with it!

System seller right there! any chance its stealth based?

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I dont know gribble I wish tht was true or maybe all those are missing how to make the platforming characters more grounded because just like in Lbp I felt the same weightlessness in every platformer game I played in Dreams. And yes I am in early access.

You can change everything about the mannequin or create your own character from scratch. If you want to emulate ANY character in ANY platformer, you can.

 

[Gamernyc78]

You can change everything about the mannequin or create your own character from scratch. If you want to emulate ANY character in ANY platformer, you can.

Can you suggest to me a platformer that feels more grounded and not so floaty in Dreams? I am seriously asking so I can check it out. I'm not much of a creator. There's a few fps tech demos that feel and look pretty dope so I don't have any issues with those.

 

[SonGoku]

Are you doing this as hobby or interested in game design?

 

[Shifty]

You can change everything about the mannequin or create your own character from scratch. If you want to emulate ANY character in ANY platformer, you can.

I will be genuinely impressed if I see someone faithfully and accurately recreate the core movement mechanics of Super Mario 64 in this system.

So far though, everything I've seen looks like the same kind of fairly generic third person character locomotion.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Are you doing this as hobby or interested in game design?

As a hobby really, and of course for my YT channel.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Can you suggest to me a platformer that feels more grounded and not so floaty in Dreams? I am seriously asking so I can check it out. I'm not much of a creator. There's a few fps tech demos that feel and look pretty dope so I don't have any issues with those.

It's just searching really. At the moment LOT'S of people are simply using the mannequin 'as is' to make levels or they're building the levels and then importing a character into it, which means the layout is likely all wrong for that particular character. As we move forward, people will begin making their own characters or adding to the mannequin as well as making sure they build the level around the character. Try Steve_big_guns and Morning Mya for a good character model.

 

[CJY]

It's just searching really. At the moment LOT'S of people are simply using the mannequin 'as is' to make levels or they're building the levels and then importing a character into it, which means the layout is likely all wrong for that particular character. As we move forward, people will begin making their own characters or adding to the mannequin as well as making sure they build the level around the character. Try Steve_big_guns and Morning Mya for a good character model.

Really enjoying your post Grib! You're like our very own dreams insider. Haha

I can't wait to get into dreams. Not long now before I get home. This, astro boy and Tetris effect will be my first downloads.

I've read a few passing comments that there are some limitations to the creation mode of Dreams. While I know you're only getting into to dreams yourself, and you're not a professional game designer, have you any insight of what those limitations might be? Or have you come across any comments from others regarding specific limitation of the tools or creative capacity? It was from my personal understand that you could literally create anything, without limitation.

Edit: something came to my mind... Water. I believe there isn't an explicit water effect in Dreams and it has to kind of be "hacked" together using textures and shapes etc to make an approximation of water. Would this be an accurate assessment of the water situation? If it's the case, I guess there might be a definite limit to the level of realism that can be achieved, at least with water.

 

[Vawn]

This is your YouTube channel you post links to daily, right? Is this allowed?

 

[CJY]

This is your YouTube channel you post links to daily, right? Is this allowed?

I think it's fine if it's in a thread, but not OK making new threads promoting your own channel. That's just a personal opinion though... A mod might chime in on this.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Really enjoying your post Grib! You're like our very own dreams insider. Haha

I can't wait to get into dreams. Not long now before I get home. This, astro boy and Tetris effect will be my first downloads.

I've read a few passing comments that there are some limitations to the creation mode of Dreams. While I know you're only getting into to dreams yourself, and you're not a professional game designer, have you any insight of what those limitations might be? Or have you come across any comments from others regarding specific limitation of the tools or creative capacity? It was from my personal understand that you could literally create anything, without limitation.

Edit: something came to my mind... Water. I believe there isn't an explicit water effect in Dreams and it has to kind of be "hacked" together using textures and shapes etc to make an approximation of water. Would this be an accurate assessment of the water situation? If it's the case, I guess there might be a definite limit to the level of realism that can be achieved, at least with water.

I would say the biggest limitation is the thermo. However, people are already learning to build cleverly, using multi-sided sculpts. A complex sculpt costs no more than an ordinary block, so if you make 6 sides to that block, with different textures, you can use it 6 different ways and it won't cost you anything more than 1 sculpts. You can copy something 100s of times and it doesn't put the thermo cost up. It does put the gameplay (things) thermo cost up though. Yes, water isn't in the game, but people are making great water effects and I'm certain that will improve, just as the cloth emulation has. What people are overlooking with the thermo, I think, is that, whilst it will always be this size, what MM add to the game with reduce the stress on it. For instance, MM are working on a new animation technique that will reduce the stress on the thermo by more than 50%, and that philosophy will eventually be applied to everything in Dreams. No, the thermo won't grow but what you can do within that limitation will increase.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Project Spark 2.0: Sony big planet

This is one of the most artificially hyped up games I've ever seen in my life and it literally doesn't do anything mindblowing. The hype is betting on it being a Minecraft level mass market hit despite it having nothing accessible enough for the mass market.

This is like those thinking Console rpg maker would take off when you had less limitations and more control on PC. This is nothing more than what I like to call a "flashing game" where it's hype will give it higher than expected upfront sales but then people realize there's nothing there and then it dies.

I've looking into this game and messed with it myself, I don't see one thing here that will make people go "WOW" with this game, if they want to create worlds and such there are easier, more accessible, and no limit programs on PC.

If this didn't world for Microsoft what makes anyone hyping this game think it's going to work for Sony? Heck, PS had some PC support, what does Dreams due that makes it 500X better than PS? The Sony Logo? Didn't save Socom and LBP..

I'll admit it's getting more "early" word of mouth than PS, but at the same time it's almost all hyperbolic chamber shattering artificial hype that outside very few cases can't possibly be real.

Do you understand how much damage it will do to the game if its hyped up this much and it ends up just adequate like PS? Not even bad, just passable, that would basically kill its interest after the first few days of launch and that's exactly how I'm predicting this will go down, very early hype, with a few days of use then it crashed into 400 windows, 10 cars, and knocks over 5 buildings until it's suffocating under some rocks.

At this point there is zero way this game can deliver, it's tainted beyond repair. Yet you guys keep making it worse. What' more, some company will release some shitty half-assed product once the hype dies to capitalize on the artificial hype and will likely end up being the more successful product. Happens everytime.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

I don't get this comment. You do know tht LBP lived up to the hype right? It has a 95 meta, sold multimillion and everyone from Microsoft (spark) to Nintendo (Mario maker) copied the concept on console of create and share. It was and still is one of the most innovative games of the last several gens

I'll just drop this here because sometimes ppl forget some games importance and innovation after the years pass by...

LittleBigPlanet (Video Game 2008) - Awards - IMDb

LittleBigPlanet (Video Game 2008) - Awards, nominations, and wins

m.imdb.com

Console "create and share" existed before LBP. DJ Hypeman Gamernyc represent.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

I think there's a lot of potential for Dreams. People were able to recreate Metal Gear Solid, P.T., Tomb Raider, MotorStorm, among other original levels and it's only going to get better when the full game releases and the post-release updates start rolling in.

 

[CJY]

snip.

Saw the poster.

Didn't bother.

 

[Romulus]

This is one of the most artificially hyped up games I've ever seen in my life and it literally doesn't do anything mindblowing.

Nothing "mindblowing." Okay, that's a really safe assessment. My mind has only been blown twice in 36 years of gaming, so Dreams must be a failure.

I disagree on the supposed crazy hype levels. It's not even that hyped to me other than a few hyperbole statements.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Just your run of the mill stuff. Nothing stunning ...

 

[Gamernyc78]

Console "create and share" existed before LBP. DJ Hypeman Gamernyc represent.

Here goes tht Microsoft dude tht be on the paroll talking Hella nonsense and frivolous bs. Hop off I don't need cheerleaders let me guess? Project Spark was the shizzit! You know we been hip to your bs bro stop while you ahead.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Saw the poster.

Didn't bother.

Facts we all know him lol

 

[Geki-D]

This is your YouTube channel you post links to daily, right? Is this allowed?

Technically no. If it's to prove a point and is actually pertinent then it should be ok. Though we need a Dreams OT to keep this stuff in.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

Project Spark 2.0: Sony big planet

This is one of the most artificially hyped up games I've ever seen in my life and it literally doesn't do anything mindblowing. The hype is betting on it being a Minecraft level mass market hit despite it having nothing accessible enough for the mass market.

This is like those thinking Console rpg maker would take off when you had less limitations and more control on PC. This is nothing more than what I like to call a "flashing game" where it's hype will give it higher than expected upfront sales but then people realize there's nothing there and then it dies.

I've looking into this game and messed with it myself, I don't see one thing here that will make people go "WOW" with this game, if they want to create worlds and such there are easier, more accessible, and no limit programs on PC.

If this didn't world for Microsoft what makes anyone hyping this game think it's going to work for Sony? Heck, PS had some PC support, what does Dreams due that makes it 500X better than PS? The Sony Logo? Didn't save Socom and LBP..

I'll admit it's getting more "early" word of mouth than PS, but at the same time it's almost all hyperbolic chamber shattering artificial hype that outside very few cases can't possibly be real.

Do you understand how much damage it will do to the game if its hyped up this much and it ends up just adequate like PS? Not even bad, just passable, that would basically kill its interest after the first few days of launch and that's exactly how I'm predicting this will go down, very early hype, with a few days of use then it crashed into 400 windows, 10 cars, and knocks over 5 buildings until it's suffocating under some rocks.

At this point there is zero way this game can deliver, it's tainted beyond repair. Yet you guys keep making it worse. What' more, some company will release some shitty half-assed product once the hype dies to capitalize on the artificial hype and will likely end up being the more successful product. Happens everytime.

if you enjoyed Project Spark and claim Dreams is like that game, why would you put it down instead of being happy that you'll be able to continue those experiences with a new upcoming title? This is why we can't have nice things anymore. Creating this narrative that Sony fans are setting themselves up for disappointment but in reality we'll be too busy enjoying the game to care.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Just your run of the mill stuff. Nothing stunning ...

Pfffff
My cat does better than that in assembly.
I cant wait for PS5 to be out and Dreams updated so the scope of the creations will be even bigger!

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Technically no. If it's to prove a point and is actually pertinent then it should be ok. Though we need a Dreams OT to keep this stuff in.

OK, If I find the time late, I'll do one.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

if you enjoyed Project Spark and claim Dreams is like that game, why would you put it down instead of being happy that you'll be able to continue those experiences with a new upcoming title? This is why we can't have nice things anymore. Creating this narrative that Sony fans are setting themselves up for disappointment but in reality we'll be too busy enjoying the game to care.

And just to add, the huge Project Spark community that have now moved over to Dreams, are thoroughly enjoying it.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

if you enjoyed Project Spark and claim Dreams is like that game, why would you put it down instead of being happy that you'll be able to continue those experiences with a new upcoming title? This is why we can't have nice things anymore. Creating this narrative that Sony fans are setting themselves up for disappointment but in reality we'll be too busy enjoying the game to care.

Sure you 10 Dreams fans can join the 10 PS fans and have a good ol' time until the servers are cut.

 

[CJY]

Snip.

A more accurate tag, I've never before seen.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

Sure you 10 Dreams fans can join the 10 PS fans and have a good ol' time until the servers are cut.

It's certainly better than you downplaying this PlayStation exclusive because the same thing didn't work for Microsoft. What, are you afraid you might find yourself enjoying Dreams, maybe even more than Project Spark?

 

[Ar¢tos]

It's certainly better than you downplaying this PlayStation exclusive because the same thing didn't work for Microsoft. What, are you afraid you might find yourself enjoying Dreams, maybe even more than Project Spark?

High quality Fantasy Gate shitposts don't require replies. No matter what you say, nothing will ever sink in or make any difference. Save your energy!

 

[Saruhashi]

To be honest "The Most Important New Game In A Decade" is a label that should really only be applied to a game in retrospect.

Certainly not before release. Do we even have a release date?

I would have thought, at this stage in the PS4 lifecycle, Sony would have held this one back for PS5.
Imagine launching your new console with the most important game in a decade bundled in.

I'm all for people discussing a game but this is all coming across as marketing.

There has always been a place for "create your own games/levels" software. Hell, I even had a shoot 'em up creator on my Commodore 64.

I don't see what's supposed to be so groundbreaking here that makes it the most important game in the past 10 years?

Depending on how long it takes to make anything that isn't just a fancy tech demo you might be in a spot where PS5 in out there and PS4 is deprioritized by the time you see the best stuff.

Seems a bit like a waste of talent too if people can make these amazing games but can't monetize them.
Or is the plan here to charge players for the base game and end up using micro-transactions for the premium in-game creations?

I am highly suspicious of this one and don't think anyone can say "most important game in a decade" until we are well into the 2020s.

 

[Saruhashi]

Just your run of the mill stuff. Nothing stunning ...

Those are some pretty pictures, sure.

That's all they are though.