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[Stumpokapow]

Is it really? Won't that mean that Nintendo/MS/Sony will all be competing for the same market? Both Nintendo and MS have shown that they now care very little about the hardcore, I can't imagine all three taking the same stance next gen.

Whether it's the key control element of the system or not (I'm certainly not arguing PS4 would be controllerless), I'm certain that Sony's next camera device will be able to do all the Kinect stuff--IE that it will be a 3D camera, and I'm certain they will release a camera device.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

I have no problem believing that the next eyetoy will be kinect-level tech or greater in nature, I also wouldn't think it would be the main catch of the system nor the main control method. But as for this rumor :lol fake.

 

[[Nintex]]

And the utter desperation of gaming "journalists" for a new generation to write about continues.

Hey fuckwits, writing stories of non-existent consoles won't wish them into reality.
Its getting really, seriously pathetic now.

Before you write this off you have to see it from Sony's point of view and you need to look at the market. So the question isn't 'will they do it' the question is 'what else could they possibly do?'. They could drop the price of the PS3, that's it really. They've played all their biggest cards.

 

[Zaptruder]

kinect style body tracking is definetly the smart way to do motion controls.

It doesn't rule out the possibility of having normal controls at all. Indeed, it would significantly reduce the cost of multiple motion controllers (you're not paying for new motion controllers; you're just paying for split plastic controllers).

Of course if its not supplemented with a well designed split controller that allows for traditional console gameplay, then it's a massive miss on Sony's part.

I'm not so confident that they won't fuck it up somehow, but giving them a little credit, I'd have to say that this idea is a good move; a good way of expanding the methods of interaction for players that developers will actually be able to take advantage off without worrying about splitting up their effort (that will only hit less than full percentages of the userbase that have bothered to purchase whatever peripheral).

As far as patent infringement goes; Sony can introduce a very kinect system without having it been a specifically kinect system; use 2 normal hi-res/hi-frame rate cameras, and use software algorithms to do object recognition and extrapolate body movement and data - is a different strategy from the IR dot field that distorts to provide the camera with depth data. Certainly its one that'll require significantly more processing power to achieve - but hey, we're talking about theoretical next gen machines here, so it's not out of the question.

 

[Man]

Before you write this off you have to see it from Sony's point of view and you need to look at the market. So the question isn't 'will they do it' the question is 'what else could they possibly do?'. They could drop the price of the PS3, that's it really. They've played all their biggest cards.

1. They are doing Okay
2. Dropping from $299 to $199 with their hardware is a huge card

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

"The planned shipment volume of PS4 in 2012".

Kinect sold ~8 million in its first short year and was mostly a North American phenomenon with little interest in Japan.

It's possible and would have to be priced affordably, but still highly dubious.

Kinect is only $150 for current 360 owners, who make up about half the people who bought one each month when we were still getting numbers.

Even if it launched in January (lol), 20 million shipped in calender 2012 is absurd for a console that will likely be > $350. The north American ASP of the PS3 right now is about $320, and the PS3 actually has lots of games.

 

[richman555]

based on the simple fact that it has/is going to be miles better than Wii U technologically

I like how people automatically jump to this conclusion. If the PS4 were actually to launch in 2012 it most likely will be very similar to Wii U in terms of power.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

CVG reporting on the article.

Edit: Further evidence.

SCEE vice president James Armstrong (via GamingBolt), where he says the following:

What is Sony's intention with the next PlayStation? We keep getting the feeling that the electronics giant will be shifting gears to the casual and mainstream markets.

Recently, we heard the PS4 might not be a massive technical powerhouse and in fact, it may not boast that much more raw power than the PS3. Then we get an interview with SCEE vice president James Armstrong (via GamingBolt), where he says the following:

"It’s hard to say right now.I do not think we’ll have a console with a lot better graphics than the PS3 currently offered.I believe the future will be to offer consumers better and more accessible experience .The aim will be to make more people enter the world of video games and try to design titles for women."

It's frightening for the hardcore gamers to realize that such a statement reminds us of the Wii... Nintendo's latest machine was such a tremendous success out of the gate that both Sony and Microsoft eventually dove into motion sensing. Furthermore, while the casual/mainstream crowd is typically familiar with the Xbox 360, the PS3 is frequently the hardcore gamer's console. And no, this isn't to say there are no hardcore gamers who only own a 360; that'd be absurd. What seems apparent is that if you're only a casual fan who plays every once in a while, chances are, you have a 360 and not a PS3.

So what's Sony doing here? What are they planning? The Wii was huge for a little while but definitely lacked staying power, primarily because a video game console needs games to survive in the long run. Gimmicks always wear thin with the consumer; it just gets boring really, really fast. Should we believe Sony is just going to release a new console that isn't much more powerful but more "social?" Designed to cater to those who aren't even gamers? I.e., the Wii? It really is a scary thought; Sony has always been synonymous with games, and to shift that focus in any way seems tragic.

But hey, we shouldn't jump to any conclusions. Nothing concrete is known about the next PlayStation yet. Let's remember that.

 

[Alx]

1. They are doing Okay

"Doing okay" may not be enough... on this generation, they understimated the Wii appeal, lost many sales due to it and had to catch up with Move a few years later. They can't afford to do it too often, and if (big if) kinect-like devices become the next big thing, they have to keep an eye on it.
So I'm quite sure that they asked themselves if they should get into it, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did in one way or another. Of course it doesn't mean that it would be their main feature (even as a kinect supporter, I don't think it should be), and it will still be a gamble, but not a stupid one.

 

[Luckyman]

Oh the meltdowns if Sony has Kinect-style controls.

Also, 20 million units next year is an absolute pipe dream. That alone should tell people this is false.

20 million is accurate for PS3 sales in 2012. Another redesign with 3D HD Eyetoy.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Kinect is only $150 for current 360 owners, who make up about half the people who bought one each month when we were still getting numbers.

Even if it launched in January (lol), 20 million shipped in calender 2012 is absurd for a console that will likely be > $350. The north American ASP of the PS3 right now is about $320, and the PS3 actually has lots of games.

I was thinking more of a Wii-like mass market attempt at $250 with more conventional hardware and no PS3 BC. That's the only way I think they could sell 20million so quickly, but like I said it's highly dubious.
Or as the PS3 should be cheaper by then, a boosted BC PS3 design with a more capable GPU could do the trick, along with USB 3.0 ports for the new camera.

 

[Averon]

The 20 million in the first year should automatically make you think this rumor is BS.

 

[[Nintex]]

The 20 million in the first year should automatically make you think this rumor is BS.

I doubt that part as well but more volume does equal a lower price for most if not all of the parts.

 

[French]

CVG reporting on the article.

Edit: Further evidence.

SCEE vice president James Armstrong (via GamingBolt), where he says the following:

What is Sony's intention with the next PlayStation? We keep getting the feeling that the electronics giant will be shifting gears to the casual and mainstream markets.

Recently, we heard the PS4 might not be a massive technical powerhouse and in fact, it may not boast that much more raw power than the PS3. Then we get an interview with SCEE vice president James Armstrong (via GamingBolt), where he says the following:

"It’s hard to say right now.I do not think we’ll have a console with a lot better graphics than the PS3 currently offered.I believe the future will be to offer consumers better and more accessible experience .The aim will be to make more people enter the world of video games and try to design titles for women."

It's frightening for the hardcore gamers to realize that such a statement reminds us of the Wii... Nintendo's latest machine was such a tremendous success out of the gate that both Sony and Microsoft eventually dove into motion sensing. Furthermore, while the casual/mainstream crowd is typically familiar with the Xbox 360, the PS3 is frequently the hardcore gamer's console. And no, this isn't to say there are no hardcore gamers who only own a 360; that'd be absurd. What seems apparent is that if you're only a casual fan who plays every once in a while, chances are, you have a 360 and not a PS3.

So what's Sony doing here? What are they planning? The Wii was huge for a little while but definitely lacked staying power, primarily because a video game console needs games to survive in the long run. Gimmicks always wear thin with the consumer; it just gets boring really, really fast. Should we believe Sony is just going to release a new console that isn't much more powerful but more "social?" Designed to cater to those who aren't even gamers? I.e., the Wii? It really is a scary thought; Sony has always been synonymous with games, and to shift that focus in any way seems tragic.

But hey, we shouldn't jump to any conclusions. Nothing concrete is known about the next PlayStation yet. Let's remember that.

Lol, that was just a translation mistake. There's a thread on GAF about this quote.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Lol, that was just a translation mistake. There's a thread on GAF about this quote.

Uh..no it wasn't, read the thread again. It was clarified that initial translation was indeed accurate.

 

[H_Prestige]

This makes no sense, at all.
360 and PS3 are in fine health, and it costs billions to make and launch a console, neither of them want this for at least a year or two of solid decline.

You do know that they only make money on software, right?
Throwing away a money-generating userbase for yet another outlay of billions on a roll of the dice is not something mega-corporations are doing in the current economic climate.
The increasing reticence of consumers to spend money is scaring them all shitless, and making everyone hunker down for now to try and survive this storm.

MS might chance losing billions, no biggie for them (Vista, lol), Sony won't.

If Sony doesn't launch a competing product against the new Wii and the 720, ps3 will no longer be "fine". Hardware sales will drop like a rock and that means software will go with it. You can't just keep selling the same product forever. Why didn't Sony use the ps2 against the 360 and Wii? Because it would have been a blockheaded move not to invest in the future. It would be suicide.

 

[NemesisPrime]

This makes no sense, at all.
360 and PS3 are in fine health, and it costs billions to make and launch a console, neither of them want this until they see at least a year or two of solid decline.

Unless it is two PS3 taped together? Or a slightly upgraded machine? That might explain the 20m shipment number... because it might just replace the existing PS3?

Hmmm.. I don't think I wanne go there

This seems very unlikely news since it would mean the death of the PS3 in 2011 (if this becomes widespread people will actually wait).

 

[Alx]

Throwing away a money-generating userbase for yet another outlay of billions on a roll of the dice is not something mega-corporations are doing in the current economic climate.

It's a common mistake to think that aiming for a broader audience means "throwing away their current userbase". One doesn't exclude the other, Nintendo's audience was a very specific crowd on the NGC and N64, and when Nintendo went "all casuals" with the Wii, it didn't prevent them from producing the usual Zelda, Mario, Metroid etc.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I think the most unbelievable part is the starting production at the end of 2011 part. I think it's a given Sony will ape Kinect somehow.

 

[Dorfdad]

According to DigiTimes an article has appeared stating that:

Sony will have Taiwan-based partners begin production of PlayStation 4 (PS4) featuring body movement-based control like Kinect at the end of 2011 for launch in 2012, according to Taiwan-based component makers.

Foxconn and Pegatron Technology, assemblers of PS3, will undertake assembly of PS4 as well, the sources pointed out. The planned shipment volume of PS4 in 2012 is at least 20 million units, the sources indicated.

-source

and while they state 2012 I find hard to believe it will launch in 2012 more than likely, and if this is true I have some major concerns. I own both the PS3 and 360 with move and kinect and there is NO way I want these gimmick driven devices to be the main focus of gaming.

I have some concerns if Sony tries to just slightly upgrade the PS4 (memory and graphics) add a default built in Eyetoy and call it Nextgen for $399 or above.

I'm expecting a big shift for next gen. 1080p Standard, Gig of ram, full cloud based features (save/stream), much faster blu-ray, ability to install games to HD (like 360) and a smoother network.

What do you all think out this announcement 2012 seems awful early for production does it not? Seeing that were heard nothing about a new console.

 

[Hixx]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=436132

edit: mods far too quick for me.

 

[Grecco]

Guess Sony decided to kill off the Move. I dont blame them.

 

[Dorfdad]

thanks for moving my post mods I didn't see this thread!

On a side note I hate the move and Kinect it's offered nothing tangible to gaming, but side show BS IMHO. If these gimmicks become the normal for gaming Im back to PC for sure.

 

[painful fart]

Guess Sony decided to kill off the Move. I dont blame them.

Yeah, after it sold over their expectations that would certainly be the logical next step.

And people talking about a PS4 coming next year. JUST STOP IT!

 

[Zaptruder]

Guess Sony decided to kill off the Move. I dont blame them.

It's just kind of redundant; if you have full body tracking, then you've got the hands tracked already.

You can still put controls in the hands even while tracking the body.

It's not like Sony haven't been working on the idea for a long time. Hell, the Eyetoy IS a primitive body tracker (even as far back as with the PS2 version); with a decade of processing power gains and software development and algorithm improvements and general advancements in the field of object recognition, is it really suprising for anyone but the unaware that this would be the eventual solution?

Hardware costs money per unit. Software costs money for development. When you're dealing with a high volume device like a console, it makes sense to offload functionality to the software when possible and feasible, only providing hardware functionality when necessary.

 

[[Nintex]]

Guess Sony decided to kill off the Move. I dont blame them.

With Nintendo going back to a more traditional controller style since they haven't been able to make the wands the new controller standard among third parties this wouldn't surprise me at all.

Yeah, after it sold over their expectations that would certainly be the logical next step.

And people talking about a PS4 coming next year. JUST STOP IT!

Ubisoft does not consider the Move viable enough for the Black Eyed Peas game, let that sink in for a second.

 

[TONX]

To me it just sounds like the next iteration of slimming down the PS3. Probably with the PSeye and move controller bundled with it. 2012 seems too soon.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

It's just kind of redundant; if you have full body tracking, then you've got the hands tracked already.

You can still put controls in the hands even while tracking the body.

Who says they won't join the two? Perhaps a Wand style controller is just the thing that Kinect is missing.

With Nintendo going back to a more traditional controller style since they haven't been able to make the wands the new controller standard among third parties this wouldn't surprise me at all.

Nintendo's not doing this.

 

[Lince]

er.... no thanks, DualShock 4 please, with a beefed up Cell, 4 GB of RAM and a much better GPU to make the Cell shine and not work overtime for the GPU.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Its too soon Sony

 

[[Nintex]]

Nintendo's not doing this.

From "the public doesn't like buttons it's too complicated" to a "controller brick with a large screen and additional touch screen and gyro input" boom.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Kinect controls? I'm not buying it.
Looks fake though

 

[Risk Breaker]

Uh..no it wasn't, read the thread again. It was clarified that initial translation was indeed accurate.

Yes it was. I'm spanish and read the original interview/article sooo...

 

[CozMick]

The rumor sounds like a Microsoft master plan to stop people from buying the Playstation 4

 

[Alx]

It's just kind of redundant; if you have full body tracking, then you've got the hands tracked already.

Yeah but holding a Move controller adds much more information than simple XYZ hand tracking... all the inertial sensors can register (with good precision) all wrist movements (which devices like kinect will always be bad at measuring), which is very useful for many games.

 

[painful fart]

Ubisoft does not consider the Move viable enough for the Black Eyed Peas game, let that sink in for a second.

Is Black Eyed Peas a popular group in the US?

 

[NemesisPrime]

er.... no thanks, DualShock 4 please, with a beefed up Cell, 4 GB of RAM and a much better GPU to make the Cell shine and not work overtime for the GPU.

Almost certainly there won't be a Cell in a real next gen PS4. It just isn't financially viable to keep on supporting Cell for Sony.

 

[speculawyer]

fake

 

[TheOddOne]

The rumor sounds like a Microsoft master plan to stop people from buying the Playstation 4

Pew pew... pew?

 

[gofreak]

Who says they won't join the two? Perhaps a Wand style controller is just the thing that Kinect is missing.

Conceptually that's what Move already is. Camera + wand. The camera just doesn't provide depth data. Yet.

I mean, if Sony is going to evolve Move, 3D capability on the camera side seems a no-brainer. I do not expect it implies a move away from the controller ala Kinect however. Maybe they can do so for some games, ditch the controller altogether. They've acknowledged you can do that for some subset of games - they did it themselves with eyetoy. But primarily, I don't think they'll be pushing that angle, the camera's role would be as part of one whole.

 

[Zaptruder]

Who says they won't join the two? Perhaps a Wand style controller is just the thing that Kinect is missing.

The wand without the bulbous tracker is just half a controller with accelorometers.

Maybe that's it; just have half a controller with cheap accelorometers and gyros plus a camera based body motion tracker.

the accelorometers can help to reinforce and enhance the camera based data similar (well, different, but similar, if you know what I mean) to how the kinect uses the IR system to enhance depth and other tracking data.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

From "the public doesn't like buttons it's too complicated" to a "controller brick with a large screen and additional touch screen and gyro input" boom.

And the wiimote? It will still be the dominant control method for the console.

This thread isn't about that though, so I digress,

 

[Derrick01]

I'm certainly hoping this is fake.

It's bad enough they'll stick with motion controls, but now they're going to ditch theirs for the worst and most limited kind of motion controls? I'm having a really hard time believing that.

 

[painful fart]

The wand without the bulbous tracker is just half a controller with accelorometers.

Maybe that's it; just have half a controller with cheap accelorometers and gyros plus a camera based body motion tracker.

the accelorometers can help to reinforce and enhance the camera based data similar (well, different, but similar, if you know what I mean) to how the kinect uses the IR system to enhance depth and other tracking data.

The coloured bulb is a smart way to identify multiple players though.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Conceptually that's what Move already is. Camera + wand. The camera just doesn't provide depth data. Yet.

I mean, if Sony is going to evolve Move, 3D capability on the camera side seems a no-brainer. I do not expect it implies a move away from the controller ala Kinect however. Maybe they can do so for some games, ditch the controller altogether. They've acknowledged you can do that for some subset of games - they did it themselves with eyetoy. But primarily, I don't think they'll be pushing that angle, the camera's role would be as part of one whole.

Technically this would indeed be a good plan and it would enable some pretty nice motion based gaming but from a marketing point-of-view this is probably not such a good idea since people would need to have lot's of extra things to play, consumers might get confused and they would be expensive to "pack-in".

It's bad enough they'll stick with motion controls, but now they're going to ditch theirs for the worst and most limited kind of motion controls? I'm having a really hard time believing that.

Errr... you can say what you want to Kinect is probably the least limited of them all. Accuracy wise ofc Kinect is worse, but I think it is pretty clear that casual motion games do not need pin-point accuracy anyway.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Conceptually that's what Move already is. Camera + wand. The camera just doesn't provide depth data. Yet.

I mean, if Sony is going to evolve Move, 3D capability on the camera side seems a no-brainer. I do not expect it implies a move away from the controller ala Kinect however. Maybe they can do so for some games, ditch the controller altogether. They've acknowledged you can do that for some subset of games - they did it themselves with eyetoy. But primarily, I don't think they'll be pushing that angle, the camera's role would be as part of one whole.

That's basically what I anticipate they'll do; update Move to incorporate Kinect like techology in order to augment it. Kinect has always seemed like a half baked idea: perhaps the addition of a more tactile response from the gamer, even if it's limited to an analog nub on the wand, could potentially be a huge step. The games could therefore use as much or as little of the tech as needed to accomplish said games' goal, not unlike the Wii and its accessories.

 

[Lasthope106]

The economy is still very sluggish. Sony has lost a lot of money with the PS3, and it's going to lose even more with the PS Vita next year. If I was a Sony shareholder I would be screaming at the top of my lungs if another expensive PS console was announced. Given these things I find it absolutely impossible that we will have a new Sony console next year.

 

[gofreak]

Technically this would indeed be a good plan and it would enable some pretty nice motion based gaming but from a marketing point-of-view this is probably not such a good idea since people would need to have lot's of extra things to play, consumers might get confused and they would be expensive to "pack-in".

Well, we're trucking along on the proposal this stuff would be in the box, standard.

Whether Sony makes motion-control standard or not, though, I think it will be an evolution of what they did with Move. That would be the most logical approach. And IMO that makes an evolution for the camera down 3D lane inevitable and obvious. In terms of required doo-hickeys, it would be no more than they needed to make Move work, but I'll agree that isn't necessarily ideally simple.

My main point though, again, is that I dunno why anyone would be surprised if Sony's next cam was 'Kinect like'. People shouldn't freak out that this would mean Sony's approach to interface would be Kinect-like however - i.e. pushing for controller free as a standard, even if it doesn't quite fit. It'd be a child of Move and that kind of philosophy, and that does call for a camera/sensor - and for PS4, you'll surely have a new camera/sensor that does more things than Eye does.

 

[kitch9]

With Nintendo going back to a more traditional controller style since they haven't been able to make the wands the new controller standard among third parties this wouldn't surprise me at all.


Ubisoft does not consider the Move viable enough for the Black Eyed Peas game, let that sink in for a second.

Ubisoft clearly think Sonys userbase isn't full of rampant hand wafting 10 year olds......

It probably isn't

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Errr... you can say what you want to Kinect is probably the least limited of them all. Accuracy wise ofc Kinect is worse, but I think it is pretty clear that casual motion games do not need pin-point accuracy anyway.

I know these words, but this sentence makes no sense.