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[EGM1966]

Impressed. Not enough to use it yet - but still impressed.

Clearly it is going to be possible to play games like Battlefield and Crysis in this manner. For a V1 it worked much better than I expected.

Wonder how fast they can improve it?

 

[Like the hat?]

bfbc2 demo works pretty well on my laptop via wifi until I sat through all that storyline bs just to come up to the first enemy and die because they made the knife the middle mouse button, which doesn't exist on my touchpad. yay.

 

[RedSwirl]

Offering demos on a cloud is an idea I've been thinking about it for a while. Console manufacturers like Sony and Microsoft should think about doing it for their console exclusive games for people who are thinking about buying their consoles but haven't yet.

Also, everyone who's interested in upcoming Xbox version of The Witcher 2 should go ahead and try out the demo here.

 

[thehillissilent]

bfbc2 demo works pretty well on my laptop via wifi until I sat through all that storyline bs just to come up to the first enemy and die because they made the knife the middle mouse button, which doesn't exist on my touchpad. yay.

LOL! Gaikai has improved alot since it's beta early last year. They have built out a lot more datacenters, which drives down latency and their picture and graphics quality is better than OnLive as well.

 

[thehillissilent]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-focus-next-gen-cloud-vs-console
(You need to register on the site to see the whole article with pictures. Don't worry it's free)

Digital Foundry did a comparsion of Gaikai and OnLive. Gaikai has better compression, image quality, and much lower latency than OnLive.

A bit of an exclusive! The same game - Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood - running on the same connection but on two Cloud services. Click on the images for lossless comparison images from OnLive and Gaikai. In addition to higher image quality, the Gaikai game is obviously running with higher quality settings engaged (note the implementation of anti-aliasing).

Improvements in compression technology can help of course. While both OnLive and Gaikai use h.264 compression, the encoders behind them at the datacentres are very, very different. The recent addition of Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood on Gaikai gives us an excellent opportunity to compare the two Cloud services in terms of picture quality. Gaikai's use of the widely acclaimed x264 encoder, used by YouTube and Facebook amongst a multitude of others demonstrates that at the same approximate levels of bandwidth, image quality gains can be seen.

Regardless, in these tests, the difference between PC and OnLive is in the region of 83 to 116ms, but the gap closes when compared to the console versions. In our experience, it's usually playable but it's noticeably laggy - to varying degrees. We've also noticed on a number of tests that there's something of a latency threshold around the 150ms level - if you're below that, typically control isn't flagged as an issue but if you're above it, people do complain. Bulletstorm on console comes in at around 133ms and there are few complaints about its response level. Compare and contrast with Killzone 2 at 150ms, which turned into something of a major issue (though perhaps because frame-rate drops did have a further impact on response).

At its best, OnLive dances around the threshold - noticeable but not an enormous issue. At its worst, it's well over it and unsatisfactory. Improving this is the key challenge. For a start, lowering latency as much as possible within the game itself will claw back precious milliseconds - something we've discussed already in our Optimising for the Cloud article we ran a while back. Perhaps if Cloud gaming gains traction, this will become more of a focus during development.

Similarly, ensuring a solid 60FPS will help, meaning that Cloud providers will actually have to deliver in that regard: OnLive proves to be rather variable in that regard and the more drops from 60FPS there are, the higher the latency. In essence then, developers need to be more mindful of the target platform, or else the platform itself needs more powerful hardware.

Secondly, the deployment of more datacentres closer to the client is an obvious move. David Perry has been talking a lot recently about ultra-low latencies between his various locations and Gaikai datacentres - specifically 8ms between his home and what we'll assume is the Californian server, and even as low as 5ms between his London hotel and the local Gaikai facility. Right now, OnLive UK is actually serviced by a facility in Luxembourg. Typically the further afield the datacentre, the higher the latency and the more opportunity there is for packet loss, so being more local has obvious advantages. Player-side, as infrastructure is upgraded more towards fibre, latency should also decrease there too.

 

[thehillissilent]

I was using Gaikai last night and finally got to track some bandwidth usage in Ubuntu. It was much lower than I initally thought and seems comparable to OnLive. Gaikai uses anywhere from 55KB/s to 1.2MB/s. However, it usually hovers between 250KB/s and 650KB/s with the occasional spike to 800KB/s and rarely over 1.0MB/s.

I was playing The Darkness II demo in 720p in Google Chromium.

If we choose 650kb/s as average, here are the stats:

39MB per minute/2.3GB per hour

It was basically running slightly over 5mbps on average, put it can peak occcasionally at around 10mbps.

I assume for 1080p, 10mbps would probably be average. 1080P and 3D (which they showed on LG 3DTVs) is proabably even higher.

I also ran into a new error message, which wasn't my fault at all. It basically said:
"Sorry...We seem to be popular now and our servers aren't avaiable. Try again later" or something like that. I did get on about 4 minutes later, but it seems like either they were doing maintenance or a lot of people were using their servers at 10:30 at night. Previously, they had a queue set up one time I joined and I waited 30 seconds for a demo to start.

 

[thehillissilent]

Gaikai has added a demo for Combat Wings: The Great Battles of WWII to the www.gaikai.com/games page. It is an air combat game. This game will be released in late March for PC, 360, and PS3, and Wii. The Gaikai demo was deisgned to use the Xbox 360 gamepad. However, you can play the game on the keyboard with WSAD and the Arrow Keys simulating dual analog. The space bar is used for shoot. I haven't figured out the other keyboard controls yet. The ironic thing is that after finsihing the demo, you will be sent to Gamestop to buy it only for 360 or PS3 even though it will be avaiable for other platforms.

Here is more information about the game: http://www.gamespot.com/combat-wings-the-great-battles-of-wwii/platform/pc/

 

[thehillissilent]

Gaikai has added Trackmania 2: Canyon ( http://shop.ubi.com/store/ubina/en_US/pd/productID.234204300/sac.true) Click the banner "Play the Demo Stream" It actually a lot of fun. You get to race and create tracks. There is a 3D mode too, and it doesn't seem to use a lot of bandwidth at all over normal usage. However, I mainly choosed Anaglyph. I did choose Side by Side to see what it looked like, and it looks just like it should on non-3d monitors (2 mirror images side by side). Even though I played in Anaglyph 3D, I liked it very much. The game connects to Ubisoft's maniaplanet servers when you start the game. However, you cannot select online multiplayer. But you can, play local multiplayer, but I wasn't able to test this since I was using Ubuntu. Gaikai doesn't support controllers yet on Mac and Linux. I didn't actually mind the keyboard controls for this game. I also say that you can set up a local server for multiplayer games, which I thought was interesting. However, it's only for a local network so I doubt anyone would be able to connect. I briefly looked into the track creation tools, but I wanted to race instead.

 

[Plexirvones]

Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment and Gaikai Partner to Launch World's First Cloud-Based Streaming MMO Game Experience

http://www.gaikai.com/press/article/warner-bros.-interactive-entertainment-and-gaikai-partner-to-launch-worlds-first-cloud-based-streaming-mmo-game-experience

 

[thehillissilent]

Gaikai has added streaming demos for Mass Effect 3, Crazy Machines 2, Rainbow Six Vegas 2, and Rayman Origins to their www.gaikai.com/games page. Enjoy!

Also, if you initially sign up for Lord of the Rings OnLine (http://www.lotro.com/support/download-lotro/1653-what-is-gaikai), you will get access to a 1 hour trial of the f2p mmorpg using Gaikai.

 

[thehillissilent]

Has anybody tried out the latest demos? I managed to play all of the new demos (Mass Effect 3, Rayman Origins, Rainbow Six Vegas 2, and Crazy Machines). They all worked fine and were very responsive with no noticiable lag. I'm only able to play with mouse keyboard on Ubuntu using Chrome. Mass Effect 3 was really nice, much better than what I played on the PS3 due to higher graphics settings and better framerate. Playing Rayman Origins with a mouse\keyboard was challenging, but it was still very fun to play. Rainbow Six Vegas 2 played just as well even though I used to own that on PS3 a while ago. I need to spend more time with Crazy Machines 2 before really giving an opinion on that. It seems to be an invention/contraption creation game.

 

[thehillissilent]

For those interested, Digital Foundry did a comparison article for 2 cloud gaming services: OnLive and Gaikai. They both have different business models. OnLive is more like a retailer and Gaikai is utilized by publishers but will be allowing full game streaming soon.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-face-off-gaikai-vs-onlive

Basically, Gaikai is running games at max settings (which are adjustable)and has better latency than OnLive. However, OnLive has a much more stable framerate since they are encoding the video at 60 fps. OnLive has been running certain Playpass games on low settings like Assasins Creed. Also, OnLive has recently been in the habit of launching games at lower graphics settings than increasing them months after launch. I beleive this has to do with server capacity issues. This has happened with Batman Arhkam City and Saints Row The third. However, users can adjust graphics settings in Playpack subscription games.

I'm making a new thread with details

 

[thehillissilent]

Gaikai has added Splinter Cell: Conviction to their www.gaikai.com/games page http://www.gaikai.com/games/splinter-cell-conviction

Ubisoft seems to be on a roll lately with Gaikai demos. They are integrated into Ubisoft's Ubishop site.

 

[Blablurn]

wow, i just tried it without expecting much. using an old laptop, and normal wifi connection with DSL 16k. it works... consider me surprised.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

hehe. never seen this before. works ok, apart from the lag. lag isn't that big of a deal since it's just a demo site. I would never play games like this, but for demos, eh whatever. pretty good not having to really download anything or really put any work into demoing games on this. like watching movie trailers more like. just click and go. like this idea. it's too bad it only really links to one buying option per game (from what I can see). it's really just the demo provider's links. would have been better with a complete list of options, like get it new on amazon get it used on amazon search for it on ebay, steam, gamersgate, gog, whatever. but I guess then it would be the site's responsibility to keep stuff working, and not the demo owner/provider whatever. eh. definitely the right way to use streaming compared to onlive. but I guess gaikai will do proper full games as well soon? pointless

 

[thehillissilent]

hehe. never seen this before. works ok, apart from the lag. lag isn't that big of a deal since it's just a demo site. I would never play games like this, but for demos, eh whatever. pretty good not having to really download anything or really put any work into demoing games on this. like watching movie trailers more like. just click and go. like this idea. it's too bad it only really links to one buying option per game (from what I can see). it's really just the demo provider's links. would have been better with a complete list of options, like get it new on amazon get it used on amazon search for it on ebay, steam, gamersgate, gog, whatever. but I guess then it would be the site's responsibility to keep stuff working, and not the demo owner/provider whatever. eh. definitely the right way to use streaming compared to onlive. but I guess gaikai will do proper full games as well soon? pointless

Gaikai will soon host full games that people can purchase through publisher/retailers/developers sites. Publishers/retailers pay Gaikai to host games. OnLive however makes a profit off of game purchases, which makes OnLive a retailer. Gaikai lets publishers/retailers/developers keep the profits made off of a sale. However, right now Gaikai currently running their demo service as a customer acquisition tool for publishers/developers/retailers. In a few months, it will enable private clouds for developers/publishers/retailers for the purchase of full games.

Also, the links you see after the demo is completed are for publishers and retailers who paid Gaikai for the hosting of that demo.

Cloud gaming works well for some and not for others. It's still immature in my opinion, but it was been making considerable growth.

 

[thehillissilent]

Gaikai has a Saint's Row The Third demo. It seems like they have maxed out the graphics settings barring resolution.
http://www.gaikai.com/games/?play=saintsrow3_fb

 

[scy]

Since I didn't see this mentioned: Gaikai now on Facebook. So that's like a billion new people to market towards

Spoiler

with Farming Simulator

 

[crazy monkey]

played sr3 demo enjoyed it.

 

[domlolz]

still can't use it

 

[mysticwhip]

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS POSSIBLE? my laptop should not be able to run Crysis 2

ITS ON EXTREME

 

[mysticwhip]

does my ability to run these demos indicate my ability to run the actual game?

 

[crazy monkey]

does my ability to run these demos indicate my ability to run the actual game?

no they are running some where in america. you are getting picture through internetz.

 

[thehillissilent]

does my ability to run these demos indicate my ability to run the actual game?

No. Gaikai works similar to OnLive where they run the game in a datacenter and stream the video to you.

Anyway, you can now play a demo of Need For Speed The Run: http://www.gaikai.com/games/?play=nfs_therun_gaikai

Gaikai is supposed to be launching full games soon (around June/July).

 

[-BLITZ-]

NFS The Run; finally I have the opportunity to play it. I ain't going to change my XP for two-three games just because of Frostbite2.

Full game. You mean, I could play for example Crysis 2 and not 30 minutes ?

 

[thehillissilent]

NFS The Run; finally I have the opportunity to play it. I ain't going to change my XP for two-three games just because of Frostbite2.

Full game. You mean, I could play for example Crysis 2 and not 30 minutes ?

Yeah, you can play games a lot longer than 30 minutes. The time-frame that Gaikai had given was 3 months after their Facebook launch which just happened last week. Gaikai will be enabling publishers to sell full games using Gaikai middleware. Gaikai is basically a white-label cloud gaming service provider.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/gaikai-months-away-full-game-streaming

 

[Ranger X]

I just tried Trackmania 2 and I am surprised by the stream quality. Actually I am surprised by the responsiveness. The framerate is low and there's a buttload of artifacting but at least the lag is barely noticeable.

 

[-BLITZ-]

Okay, but let me understand something, you can full play without paying any money, not like OnLive that require money in order to continue playing because you know, suddenly this would be SO or too free :-?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Okay, but let me understand something, you can full play without paying any money, not like OnLive that require money in order to continue playing because you know, suddenly this would be SO or too free :-?

These are just demos.

 

[thehillissilent]

Okay, but let me understand something, you can full play without paying any money, not like OnLive that require money in order to continue playing because you know, suddenly this would be SO or too free :-?

Basically, publishers pay Gaikai for hosting demos that users play for free. The demo service is a marketing tool. However, it's different with the full game service. Publishers still pay Gaikai for hosting, but you will have to pay the publisher/retailer to play full games. Gaikai sent surveys out, which indicates that there might be more flexible payment options provided by publishers/retailers than by what OnLive is offering such as the Gamefly model ($5-$10 game rental). Gaikai is basically a cloud gaming service provider that offers white-label (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-label_product) and marketing services. Gaikai will be enabling full games soon (http://www.edge-online.com/news/gaikai-months-away-full-game-streaming)

I have included some Q&A from the Gaikai FAQ that gives details about their service.

http://www.gaikai.com/faq

General User FAQ:

Do you sell games on Gaikai.com?
No that's up to our publisher and retailer partners. We are a technology these companies use to let you try their products instantly for free.

Please do support our partners and buy from them!

Publishers/Developers FAQ:

Can you stream full games as well as demos?

Yes, Gaikai can stream full games however this is not a part of our “game demo” service. To stream full games, you simply buy Gaikai cloud capacity based on the number of instances you wish to have permanently available for your gamers. To your customers, you now you have your own Cloud Gaming service, we just take care of all of the heavy lifting.

How do you charge?

We have a couple of methods of payment. You can either pay for the time the gamers play or if you wish to keep it simple we just charge a set amount per demo.

 

[thehillissilent]

Alan Wake is on Gaikai's Facebook app (https://apps.facebook.com/gaikai-games/). It plays pretty well.

 

[thehillissilent]

Gaikai just added a demo for Tera on their gaikai.com/games page along with The Train Giant A-Train 9.

 

[thehillissilent]

For those that are interested and have a capable machine that can run games locally, here is the website for gaikai progessive downloading (play games locally within minutes while streaming rest of game data to hard drive in the background):

http://downloader.gaikai.com/

Currently, there are just 3 demos featured: Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2, and Fifa 12

I found out about this site by watching Gaikai's E3 presentation. Unfortunately, I can't test it at work since connections are blocked.

Also, Gaikai added a (cloud gaming) demo for Dead Island.