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[Earthanoid]

I don't think people realize how much damage a dog, even a little one, can do. A friend of mine feeds her pug chicken drummettes and the dog bites clean through the bone when it's motivated. Dogs of all size have crazy bite strength. My dog is much larger (60+ pounds) and the crunching sound she makes when I feed her drumsticks or left over ribs or something is horrific. The lady should've kept her dogs under control.

The jogger over-reacted though. Bad judgment all around, and the poor dog is the victim.

I thought I was pretty clear in my last post, but I'll reiterate.

If the jogger felt that the pug was attacking, then yes, kicking it to keep it away is justifiable under self-defense.

It doesn't matter if it connected in the head or the body. Or if he aimed for the head, or if he aimed for the body and hit the head. Or whatever.

It all comes down to state of mind. If he thought the dog was in attack mode and the owner was not in control of the dog, it's justified. If he thought the dog was merely an annoyance and kicked it because it was in his way, it's not justified.

This sounds about right.

 

[way more]

Just to make it clear

A: aggressive pug is running at you, possibly has a knife

B: pug approaches with literature talking about how joining "The union" is fulfilling


Do you

A: Kick to kill, just as your karate tapes have told you.


B. Dodge, Block. Roll, Defend, Break the arm.



Edit: Basically, can we accept, as humans, as peoples, that there was a way to leave the situation without kicking the dog to death? I say no. This dog was a hell beast sent from the cinders of the "Horned oned" himself. Kicking that dog to death was just God blessing his creation.

 

[Volimar]

He didn't "kick the dog to death". He kicked it once and it died. Jesus.


This thread is a great case study of how people twist events and even words themselves to fit their side of an argument.

 

[Patriots7]

I was bitten by dogs before and still wouldn't kick one. Today, I'd rather kick the owner if something happens.

@topic: Wouldn't have gone well if he'd kick my dog like that. For him I mean. Well, for me as well probably. People need to understand that a human can have strong bonds to his dog and respect that. I love my dog to the same degree like I love any of the members of my family - sometimes even more. And you can be sure that I'd react that same way like if someone kicked my brother.

That said, the jogger was a coward. A pug like that is no danger to anyone. I'm sure he wouldn't have kicked a Doberman running at him....

Conversely, people need to understand that some people are afraid of dogs, or don't consider them anything more than an animal, such as a spider or pigeon. Goes both ways.
Take better care of your pets.

 

[God Enel]

wtf? why would you kick it away? what can this little shit do?

but to be honest i think these dogs are fucking disgusting. though I wouldn't kill/kick them.

 

[way more]

He didn't "kick the dog to death". He kicked it once and it died. Jesus.


This thread is a great case study of how people twist events and even words themselves to fit their side of an argument.

It's crazy how kicking a dog in the head, and then the dog dies, would lead people to believe that the two things were related.

Reminds me of the time my friend threw a vase in the air. Later it fell and broke. For some reason they all blamed my friend as if he had anything to do with the vase breaking.

 

[Nafai1123]

How to know that a dog that comes running and barking at you is not a danger? Would always kick a dog if I'd feel it would otherwise bite me in that situation and wouldn't feel any remorse.

If the dog shows aggressive behaviour (don't tell me you don't consider barking and running at you as fhat) then I'm allowed to show self defense with reasonable force. Same goes for any other animal as well as humans.

Where in the report does it say the dog was barking? Pretty sure neither the jogger nor the owner said that. If you can assume running towards the jogger was aggressive behavior, I can assume it was just coming to say hello like all friendly dogs would do.

 

[andrerobot]

Where in the report does it say the dog was barking? Pretty sure neither the jogger nor the owner said that. If you can assume running towards the jogger was aggressive behavior, I can assume it was just coming to say hello like all friendly dogs would do.

Why do you assume the dog was friendly?

 

[JimmyRustler]

How to know that a dog that comes running and barking at you is not a danger? Would always kick a dog if I'd feel it would otherwise bite me in that situation and wouldn't feel any remorse.

Look, I'm just saying. You better watch out what you're doing. Say you kick the wrong persons dog (like mine), I'm sure you'll feel remorse after that.

Some people tend to overreact for the slightest shit from my experience. See my dog has never shown any aggressive behavior in his life. But sometimes even he gets excited and runs towards a person for whatever reason. That is no reason to kick him.
I'm sure there are shitty owners who don't give a fuck about what their dog is doing and do not discipline him for any wrongdoing. But for every owner like that there are countless owners who actually do so, so give them a chance before kicking the dog.

Besides, this conversation is kinda weird anyway. Because I'm pretty sure you and everyone else in this thread would only kick dog breeds that are no threat to you anyway. A little pug? A Beagle? Yeah, big man. See if a Doberman or some other big dog breed comes charging at you... You'd kick those? I wanna see that.

 

[Volimar]

I'd kick it before it bit me. Then it'd bite me and I'd be screwed.

 

[Sojgat]

I feel bad for the dog, but the owner should have had it on a leash.

 

[Dalek]

He didn't "kick the dog to death". He kicked it once and it died.

 

[Volimar]

You know what I'm saying. Saying kicked the dog to death implies that he intended to kick the dog until it died. Using the example above, it'd be like saying he threw the vase until it broke. Technically it's true, but it implies that he intended to throw the vase as many times as he needed to break it.

 

[Cuburt]

This story reminds me that leashes aren't just for protection of others from the dog, but protection for the dog from others.

That jogger was an asshole.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Just to make it clear

A: aggressive pug is running at you, possibly has a knife

B: pug approaches with literature talking about how joining "The union" is fulfilling


Do you

A: Kick to kill, just as your karate tapes have told you.


B. Dodge, Block. Roll, Defend, Break the arm.



Edit: Basically, can we accept, as humans, as peoples, that there was a way to leave the situation without kicking the dog to death? I say no. This dog was a hell beast sent from the cinders of the "Horned oned" himself. Kicking that dog to death was just God blessing his creation.

It's crazy how kicking a dog in the head, and then the dog dies, would lead people to believe that the two things were related.

Reminds me of the time my friend threw a vase in the air. Later it fell and broke. For some reason they all blamed my friend as if he had anything to do with the vase breaking.

I want to buy you a drink.

 

[EricTheCleric]

All this thread has resulted in is cementing my prejudice that dog owners are ignorant.

 

[Cuburt]

You know what I'm saying. Saying kicked the dog to death implies that he intended to kick the dog until it died. Using the example above, it'd be like saying he threw the vase until it broke. Technically it's true, but it implies that he intended to throw the vase as many times as he needed to break it.

Semantics.

If he intended to kick it with significant enough force to stop it from progressing forward and applied that to a tiny dog such as this pug, it could be argued that he intended to kick this dog with lethal force, whether he realized at the time that it would kill it or not.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Sure, if you spun around a few times, maybe you could argue that.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

All this thread has resulted in is cementing my prejudice that dog owners are ignorant.

Educate those of us who own dog. In genuinely curious as to why I am ignorant for having a dog.

 

[Vitten]

Maybe a bit of an asshole move from the jogger but some people here are way too emotional when it comes to pets. You'd think he killed a kid or something reading some people's responses.

Dog wasn't on a leash and rushed towards the jogger, jogger felt threatened and kick out of self-defense ( too hard maybe ? hard to judge when you aren't there ) and dog unfortunately died.. Shit happens.

Shared responsibility, owner should have had the dog on a leash and jogger shouln't have kicked so hard.

 

[Cuburt]

If a baby came rushing at you with a staple gun, I'm sure some here would be in fear for their safety, maybe even enough to field goal kick that baby in the head in an attempt to disarm and subdue the out of control baby.

 

[John Bender]

Well, I hate it too when people don't put their dog on a leash when they go out.
It's a law here where I live. You have to do it! For a reason!!
But a pug? And kicking it with full force? Fuck you, man!

 

[Shiggy]

Look, I'm just saying. You better watch out what you're doing. Say you kick the wrong persons dog (like mine), I'm sure you'll feel remorse after that.

If you have a shit dog and are an ignorant dog owner and your dog comes running at me and I feel threatened or that it's going to bite me, I'm going to kick it hard enough to not harm me. If you harmed me as a consequence, you'd have to live with paying legal damages and a visit at the next police station. One thing is self defense, the other is deliberate violence.

If a baby came rushing at you with a staple gun, I'm sure some here would be in fear for their safety, maybe even enough to field goal kick that baby in the head in an attempt to disarm and subdue the out of control baby.

...

 

[EricTheCleric]

Educate those of us who own dog. In genuinely curious as to why I am ignorant for having a dog.

Just read this thread

 

[Shuggananas]

If a baby came rushing at you with a staple gun, I'm sure some here would be in fear for their safety, maybe even enough to field goal kick that baby in the head in an attempt to disarm and subdue the out of control baby.

Parents' fault for not keeping their baby on a leash

 

[Nocebo]

If a baby came rushing at you with a staple gun, I'm sure some here would be in fear for their safety, maybe even enough to field goal kick that baby in the head in an attempt to disarm and subdue the out of control baby.

This sounds like a straw-man fallacy to me. It falls apart when examined, like all straw men do.
This is absolutely a dangerous situation if the baby had enough force to operate the staple gun. I think it would be reasonable to twist the gun out of his hand with force. Just approach it from a good angle. I'm not sure how that situation is comparable to an animal rushing at you, though. Not only does the animal have better maneuverability. Clearly it would be better at chasing you than a baby is. Also its jaws are much harder to avoid. Extending your hand towards it isn't really an option if you thought it was going to bite you.

 

[BeauRoger]

My neighbor that lives below me is an old lady that has a disgusting little yorkshire terrier thats extremely aggressive. Because its so small, she hasnt really bothered house training it, and every time time she opens the door when i happen to be coming down the stairs from my floor, the dog comes running out barking and trying to bite me. It has bit my ankle several times, and later i noticed that it actually bit a hole in one of my pair of pants.

I havent encoutered the them for a while now, but the last time it happened i told her that the next time the dog tries that im going to kick it, and i would be entirely justified in doing so. The frailty of the dog is completely irrelevant in this case, If a person kicks a dog with the intent to just keep it away, and the dog dies because it is weak, then the person kicking shouldnt be blamed unless the action itself was unprovoked, or if there was a clear attempt to injure or kill, rather than defend oneself.

To illustrate this with a thought experiment, imagine an animal that is so frail that even the slightest touch from a human would kill it, and that animal happens to be very aggressive and often attack humans. Even if it cant realistically kill or injure the human critically, its absolutely moronic to say that the human has no right to defend him or herself from that animal because it might die if you do.

 

[JimmyRustler]

If you have a shit dog and are an ignorant dog owner and your dog comes running at me and I feel threatened or that it's going to bite me, I'm going to kick it hard enough to not harm me. If you harmed me as a consequence, you'd have to live with paying legal damages and a visit at the next police station.

I could live with that. I'm not sure you could though.

 

[Aiii]

When I was a kid I was bitten 37 times by a dog.

The dog was small. Aggressive, unleashed, but small.

The dog was put down, obviously. To this day, its owner is mad at my family for the dog being put down, "it was such a nice dog, never hurt anyone before."

Not saying that's the case here, just saying that just because it's a small dog, there's no saying it wasn't being aggressive. I'm also saying small dogs can bite just as hard and even bites from small dogs can have big consequences. We weren't there, we can't take one side's story for fact since that's a biased account either way.

 

[Renekton]

Not justifying anything in any way, but small dogs seem strangely oblivious to their size disadvantage.

A pug got loose and went aggro on my Mastiff, luckily her response was bemusement.

 

[Nocebo]

I could live with that. I'm not sure you could though.

Are you implying you would kill him? Then you couldn't "live" with it either.

 

[BeauRoger]

I could live with that. I'm not sure you could though.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Are you implying you would kill him? Then you couldn't "live" with it either.

Nah, I wouldn't go that far. Let's just say that depending on how hard my blow hits he may or may not have fun with the legal damages he receives later on.

 

[twinturbo2]

If I was the owner of that pug, and that happened to my pug, I'd press charges, and if that doesn't come to pass, I'd sue the hell out of him.

Seeing a dog, my dog, die like that would make me an emotional wreck. I hope that asshole jogger gets some jail time, or at the very least a sentence that mandates lots of community service at the local animal shelter.

 

[Nocebo]

Nah, I wouldn't go that far. Let's just say that depending on how hard my blow hits he may or may not have fun with the legal damages he receives later on.

Where would you hit him? And how hard? What makes you think your life wouldn't be significantly ruined afterwards either?

 

[JimmyRustler]

Where would you hit him? And how hard? What makes you think your life wouldn't be significantly ruined afterwards either?

I'd step on his small toe and crush it. That would show and scar him for life. >)

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

I could live with that. I'm not sure you could though.

What's with all the threats?

 

[EricTheCleric]

I could live with that. I'm not sure you could though.

wow...

is that a veiled death threat?!

If I was the owner of that pug, and that happened to my pug, I'd press charges, and if that doesn't come to pass, I'd sue the hell out of him.

Seeing a dog, my dog, die like that would make me an emotional wreck. I hope that asshole jogger gets some jail time, or at the very least a sentence that mandates lots of community service at the local animal shelter.

keep your dog on a leash and the risk of it happening will decrease rapidly

 

[JimmyRustler]

What's with all the threats?

It's no personal threat. I just wanted to illustrate how many dog owners think and what consequences one could face. I don't know that guy I quoted and I'm honestly happy I don't.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

Look, I'm just saying. You better watch out what you're doing. Say you kick the wrong persons dog (like mine), I'm sure you'll feel remorse after that.

Bruce Lee has always been a badass, you are to tough for GAF.

 

[Asmodai48]

Terrible owner.

 

[Shiggy]

I could live with that. I'm not sure you could though.

Actually laughing about people now saying this is a death threat. I didn't read it that way. I'd use necessary force to keep you away too. Doubt that kicking you will lead to death though.

I'd step on his small toe and crush it. That would show and scar him for life. >)

What a badass. I'm actually more scared of a dog bite than that.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Actually laughing about people now saying this is a death threat. I didn't read it that way. I'd use necessary force to keep you away too. Doubt that kicking you will lead to death though.

This is GAF man, every message is blown out of proportion in general. ;-)

Look, I'm not afraid at all because of my dog. He's not going to attack anyone. He get scared from cats.... Like I said, I just wanted to illustrate to you how attached some people are to their pets and that you should leave them alone except that it's absolutely necessary.

 

[twinturbo2]

keep your dog on a leash and the risk of it happening will decrease rapidly

Yeah, I understand that, but still, killing the poor pug is still too much and the poor woman is traumatized.

 

[Keeno]

I could live with that. I'm not sure you could though.

Wtf is this shit? Too far.

 

[Nocebo]

I'd step on his small toe and crush it. That would show and scar him for life. >)

Uhuh, sure.

Let's just say that depending on how hard my blow hits...

In what universe is stepping on someone's toe ever described as a blow and using the verb hitting? You didn't think this through did you?

 

[JimmyRustler]

Uhuh, sure.

In what universe is stepping on someone's toe ever described as a blow and using the verb hitting? You didn't think this through did you?

I thought the sarcasm in my message was obvious. Apparently not.

 

[Shiggy]

This is GAF man, every message is blown out of proportion in general. ;-)

Look, I'm not afraid at all because of my dog. He's not going to attack anyone. He get scared from cats.... Like I said, I just wanted to illustrate to you how attached some people are to their pets and that you should leave them alone except that it's absolutely necessary.

I'm pretty lucky and amazed by most dog owners around my area (there are quite a lot). Not all of their dogs are leashed but then they apparently got proper training as they still stay calm. In the metro, they take the cabins that are designated for people with pets too. And also, most of them put the dog shit into a bag.

My experience from Germany hasn't been that nice though the dogs of my neighbors there were also properly trained. The only thing that got bitten by that small barking dog was the time of the postman's car

So I'm not all negative. Just if I felt threatened, I'd do whatever it takes for self defense. And I am kinda afraid of dogs due to being bitten by one before.

 

[Scoot2005]

What a fucking dick. I could understand if the dog was attacking him but other than that it's just malicious. Also just a pug. The hell could a pug REALLY DO?

 

[Quixzlizx]

This is GAF man, every message is blown out of proportion in general. ;-)

Look, I'm not afraid at all because of my dog. He's not going to attack anyone. He get scared from cats.... Like I said, I just wanted to illustrate to you how attached some people are to their pets and that you should leave them alone except that it's absolutely necessary.

If you're so worried about possibly unleashing your antisocial tendencies, maybe you should just keep your dog on a leash, which should help keep you from needing to indulge in your revenge fantasies.

Just last morning, I saw two fucking idiots letting their dogs run around the street without leashes. At least one driver had to stop driving in order not to kill one of them. Fucking entitled dog owners, man.