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EGM/1UP steals the blood and sweat of hardcore gamers?

DCharlie

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
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NO ANGRY SACRIFICES AT THE ALTAR OF THE BLOOD GOD!?

Panty wetting milksops will not like this!
 
M

MC Safety

Member
SnowWolf said:
That's very well and good, but what's going to happen to Richard Li?
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It's the cannon.

Edit: This was one poorly worded response. I meant to suggest, jokingly, that he should be shot out of a cannon.

But you get fired out of a cannon, too, and that's not what I meant at all.

Whoops.
 
R

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
SnowWolf said:
That's very well and good, but what's going to happen to Richard Li?
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Does anything have to happen? It doesn't seem he has a track record of this, and I'm sure if it were to happen again, he'd be gone fast.
 
M

MC Safety

Member
RevenantKioku said:
Does anything have to happen? It doesn't seem he has a track record of this, and I'm sure if it were to happen again, he'd be gone fast.
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Nothing needs to happen. It would be nice if other people's work is given more thoughtful treatment -- if indeed 1up thought there was something untoward.

End of story.
 
G

Goreomedy

Console Market Analyst
I think during the next episode of the 1up show, Richard Li should be bent over while the rest of the 1up staff takes turns spanking his exposed buttocks with a ping pong paddle. And with tears in his eyes, he should be forced to look into the camera and confess: "Unlike everyone else at 1up, I'm not perfect."
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
I think for the next episode of the 1UP show they should take one of these ideas without asking so we can do this all over again :)

But uh, yeah, you can use mine. I HATH GIVEN YOU PERMISSION.
 
V

VeryHungryCaterpillar

Member
DCharlie said:
are people seriously calling for someone to be FIRED for this?

Jesus christ, get your heads out of your arses!

Also, why should 1up set any examples for anyone?

the WORST that should happen, if the guides were used, is that Richard Li should say

"Myself and 1 up would like to note the following : during the creation of the 1up DOA guide, i used a number of websites to help me get used to the game as quickly as possible, i read DOACentral and some of their advice proved helpful to my guide. Unfortunately, this advice was then included as part of the strat i wrote. Although plaigarism was definitely not what i had in mind, there are some striking similarities. I'd like to credit DOACentral for the help and advice given, and apologise for any offense caused by the article or guide. Please visit DOACentral for excellent tips and guides."

And that's it.

end of story.

now please can all you panty wetting sops back up!?
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Wait. So "it isn't stealing if you didn't mean it" plus half sincere apologies and credit given ftw?
 
C

chinmonster

Member
I agree that nothing needs to be done to Richard. It's a fecking strategy guide, not a review or a feature. It's been corrected nicely, and that's all that needs to happen, imo.
 
V

Vennt

Unconfirmed Member
Credit where credit is due, 1UP did the right thing, kudos, end of story, period.
 
DCharlie

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Wait. So "it isn't stealing if you didn't mean it" plus half sincere apologies and credit given ftw?
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that's not what i'm saying at all. And how do you know it's half sincere?! please.
1up went to talk to DOAC - now i'm not saying they deserve a medal, but they at least DID what the SHOULD have done. Some other sites might not have bothered and would have futher upset DOAC. Instead a compromise was reached. One that obviously appeased DOAC who were the "wronged" party - so i'm not sure why the rest of you are continuing to leak liquids over this.

Seriously, some of you are looking for drama.

Regardless, lets say that Richards brief was this :

"Play DOA4 for two weeks, get good at it, and then write a guide for people who don't understand the game"

(Something i went looking for over at DOAC, and could only finds in dribs and drabs)

I'm sure Rich went to a number of sites to get a leg up and started a guide. What is he supposed to do ? Discard the info he finds out is useful?

The ONE oversite was that Richard didn't say "as part of this research i went to site a, b, and c" - and that's it. No firing is required and if DOAC were mortally offended then they would have not granted permission for 1up to republish.

Also : it's a good combined guide for noobs who don't want to go through posts and articles on every aspect of every techinque. DOAC was helpful for me, but i couldn't find a combined n00b guide. Check out some of the responses initially at DOAC - a number of people seemed to actually LIKE the guide before the uproar started.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
i dunno about the others, but VirtuaPai was more upset about Mr. Li not giving credit more than anything. VPai loves the idea of more people reading up on good strats for DOA.
 
A

Aruarian Reflection

Chauffeur de la gdlk
An interview with VirtuaPai has been posted on GameDaily: http://xbox360.gamedaily.com/game/features/?gameid=2646&id=870&p=2&p=3&p=4&p=3&p=2&page=1

According to posts made on the Gaming-Age forums by 1UP staff, Richard Li played the game for over a week and was "starting to get good". Would the advanced strategies listed in the 1UP guide be something a player new to DOA would be able to figure out from a week and a half of play time?

No. I say this because DOA has a strange evasion system that took me months to figure out. The only reason I knew the extent of DOA4s evasion system at an accelerated rate, was due to my already having a good understanding of the mechanics. It would take more than a week to figure it out otherwise.

Let me explain in greater detail. DOA3s evasion system was affected by a multitude of factors: character weight class (girth), height, speed of movement, and how well they are able to maneuver around linear, half circular, and circular attacks.

Like with Helena. She is capable of evading a lot of high and mid attacks due to her special Free Step Dodge (FSD) out of her Bokuho stance.
Click to expand...

Several 1UP staff members in the GA forums have said that DOA4 is a very basic game, no where near the depth of Tekken or Virtua Fighter. They also claim that the work Richard has done for 1UP looks similar to your work simply because there are only so many ways to say the same thing. What is your take on this?

One... that is pretty much a cover up. There are thousands of ways to write a guide. Each person has their own style and their own writing voice... a signature. Richard Li did not need to put in his guide that there is a difference between Free Step Dodging in DOA3, and FSD in DOA4. That part of the guide is irrelevant. I added it because I wanted those players who were leaving off from DOA3.1 (the DOA game that had the best evasion system) to know that they can't evade the same way they could in DOA 3.1. These players are the hardcore of the hardcore DOA players. Not too many DOA players went out to mod their Xbox just to play DOA 3.1, and import a copy of the game (the Japanese version of DOA3).

Two... then there is the evasive tier list. A tier list is not necessarily defined, and I was informed of other forms of evasive attacks. Tier lists vary a little from person to person, scene to scene. There was no such variance in Mr. Li's list. If Mr. Li was studying as hard as he was said to be, he would have found the moves that I missed. He would have also interjected his own thoughts, or changed around some of the character placement due to his own experience with these characters.

It should be noted that a button masher is not going to see the depth of any fighting game. I have seen a string of reviews that use the same buzz words; i.e. depth, skill, etc. These words have lost their meaning due to their over saturation. It takes more than a month to figure out the depth of any game, and it takes more than a week to figure out advanced tactics such as evasion in DOA4.
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A

Aruarian Reflection

Chauffeur de la gdlk
As for Sam Kennedy's wrap-up:

Nearly all of his guide was written on his own -- I saw him slaving away on it for the better part of two weeks -- but he did use certain posts on the DOA Central message board as reference. It was an oversite not to make mention of this -- likely because of the nature of the source (various posts on a fan forum, as opposed to a published piece elsewhere) -- but he should have.
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Nearly all of the guide was written by Richard Li? What a joke. I also don't like the arrogant attitude 1up has towards "fan forums", as if their information isn't as valuable. This whole thing has soured my opinion of 1up, but at least Sam did make some effort to talk to the DoAC guys. I give their handling of the situation a 4/10 -- "Broken" according to the 1up scale.
 
C

chinmonster

Member
SnowWolf said:
An interview with VirtuaPai has been posted on GameDaily: http://xbox360.gamedaily.com/game/features/?gameid=2646&id=870&p=2&p=3&p=4&p=3&p=2&page=1
Click to expand...


It's unprofessional to lift stuff from a guide, and it's unprofessional to post an interview about a competing website doing such a thing when the issue has been resolved.

Those are some pretty low tactics, imo. It's one thing to post about it in a forum, but to post an interview dedicated to how 1up screwed up? Lame. And EGM is still being dragged into it.

It really bothers me that everyone is acting as if this is the fault of the entire 1up staff and upper management. There's no way in hell for them to check stuff like that before it's posted. It was purely the fault of the author, not the whole site.

And it's a guide . I can't believe people are saying that the last EGM editorial is now ironic over the lifting of a guide. The editorial was talking about a whole separate issue (the exchange of coverage and favorable review scores for advertising dollars, etc.).

Needless to say, I no longer respect GameDaily as I once did.
 
T

Troidal

Member
chinmonster said:
It's unprofessional to lift stuff from a guide, and it's unprofessional to post an interview about a competing website doing such a thing when the issue has been resolved.

Those are some pretty low tactics, imo. It's one thing to post about it in a forum, but to post an interview dedicated to how 1up screwed up? Lame. And EGM is still being dragged into it.
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That's why game "journalism" is still considered childish when you see mud-slinging like this.

Props to Sam and 1up.com though, at least they tried to make amends, not cover it up or completely ignoring it.
 
CamHostage

CamHostage

Member
Is all this over the actual text of the guide, or a moves list? If it's over the moves list? If it's the strategies, then that's bad, but if they're crying that the moves list was cribbed ... how the fuck can you NOT crib a moves list? That's fact. It's not like he would have found 700 1UP exclusive moves by searching on his own. A little credit maybe if there's no official guide out yet and somebody had to hand-tap the moves, but don't the game makers usually give out move lists to pro sites anyway? A lot of them do, same goes for cheats, as I understand.
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
I suspect a large memo was sent out, so hopefully people will pay more attention to that sort of thing and I won't have to feel suspicious whenever I check out their site.

Hearty totonka props to 1UP for the way they handled it. Would've been better if it didn't happen at all...but shit happens, even with high profile sites.
 
M

Monk

Banned
chinmonster said:
It really bothers me that everyone is acting as if this is the fault of the entire 1up staff and upper management. There's no way in hell for them to check stuff like that before it's posted. It was purely the fault of the author, not the whole site.
Click to expand...

Just because it neds to be said again.
 
A

Anyanka

Member
The interview with Virtuapai really makes Li look bad. Everyone wondering why copying a move list is a big deal should read it. It's not just copying how to do the moves, it's explaining how the move works, what it's good for and ranking them compared with moves from other characters. That's not just using Virtuapai's info as a starting point for his own research he just copied his opinions and strategy on the game as his own.
 
N

ninge

Member
ok so i've come to this thread very late (only just seen it) but talk about a bunch of panty-bunching drama queens!

Seriously, this reads like someone just murdered your mothers in some places. get over it.
 
X

Xellotah

Member
ninge said:
ok so i've come to this thread very late (only just seen it) but talk about a bunch of panty-bunching drama queens!

Seriously, this reads like someone just murdered your mothers in some places. get over it.
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NERD Justice. We've got stand for something.
 
D

Dave Long

Banned
Yeah, that's the thing. One guy got paid to write that feature, the other guy who he took the text from did not.

Hopefully that happened behind the scenes.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
:lol this thread is more embarrassing for GAF than 1up. We all suck. All of us that don't suck, suck by association with the people that do suck in this thread. LAME.
 
P

Piper Az

Member
DCharlie said:
I'm sure Rich went to a number of sites to get a leg up and started a guide. What is he supposed to do ? Discard the info he finds out is useful?

The ONE oversite was that Richard didn't say "as part of this research i went to site a, b, and c" - and that's it. No firing is required and if DOAC were mortally offended then they would have not granted permission for 1up to republish.
Click to expand...

Rich Li should've known that this was a grave mistake (i.e. somebody at 1up should have told him so it wasn't emphasized). If this was a clear innocent mistake like you suggest, I say the situation should be put the end now.

Only thing that I don't agree with your post is that you sound to brush-off this incident as a harmless error. While it may be so, it should be acknowledged that the action (plagiarism) per se is a horrible one. People in publishing and literature get fired/excommunicated for this kind of stuff. Heck, students at my college get expelled for mere accidental "oversite" like this (reminding them in the process that he or she should've known better).

EDIT: I thought Sam Kennedy's explanation at 1up was a good one.
 
A

APF

Member
chinmonster said:
t's unprofessional to post an interview about a competing website doing such a thing when the issue has been resolved.
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No it's not. The interview is newsworthy and interesting.
 
F

FortNinety

Member
Okay, I hate to (sorta) derail this topic, but I have to ask: Matlock, what is your problem?

I ask because I see my name was thrown into this thread on page one for no good reason other than some anti-1UP statements I've stated somewhere else. Make no mistake... I still stick to what I've said, but I have to wonder what those sentiments have to do with this precise matter. Actually, I can see a connection, so again, here's not the problem.

My beef is with you Matlock, with your aforementioned detective work. I guess I wouldn't have such a issue if not for the fact that you've established yourself quite clearly as someone who couldn't give two shits about video game journalism, that its a joke, and that to care about it sintegrity is a pointless waste of time and energy. And yet you get involved by reviewing titles for the main site, yet again with the "this is so stupid!" attitude, without an ounce of seriousness to the task at hand. I'm not saying that reviewing games (in your case, bad games, which I guess is what you prefer) is like curing cancer, but you've IMed me in the past to see if a review your working on has enough "zingers", and how you state that its just a hobby and that you're just in it for the free games, it just comes off a little... I dunno...peculiar.... when you then turn around and start calling people out, pulling shit from other sources (I really haven't check ever single post meticulously, but if I'm not mistaken, on page 2, you drudged something from someone else's past, some cached webpage or something), and stir shit up.

For a guy who seems to hate the whole world of video game journalism, you seem to have a real hard-on for impressing folks in the field. Do you like not have any real friends? Do you crave attention that much?

I know you've never been well liked, among both GAF regulars and mods.... yeah you troll, but like many others on the GAF, you bring up some pretty interesting stuff at times... we've chatted a bit, and you always seemed like, at the end of the day, like a pretty nice guy.

But now this. WTF.

And I know I'm not going to get a serious response, and again sorry to derail the thread with personal bullshit, plus I know I'm going to get banned, but I just had to say it.
 
M

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
FortNinety said:
For a guy who seems to hate the whole world of video game journalism, you seem to have a real hard-on for impressing folks in the field. Do you like not have any real friends? Do you crave attention that much?
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um, hello?
 
S

Shinobi

Member
bishoptl said:
I leave the country for one week and GAF outdoes itself. Thanks kids
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So you're the reason why we've got a conservative government now.





pilonv1 said:
I like how people think this doesn't happen elsewhere.
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I like how people say this as if it justifies things.

I also like how people act as if 1UP is incapable of doing anything untoward. But that's what happens when you buddy up with people who contribute to the place in question...bias clouds objectivity.
 
M

Matlock

Banned
FortNinety: I don't care about you, I don't care about the quality of my writing, and I sure as hell don't care enough about 1up to hate it.

You know what I do care about, though? I care about something I call "journalistic integrity." What I do may be ass, but that's not the point--I'm HONEST. I'm not going around ripping off forum posts without so much as a cite (although that's been fixed, kudos), I'm not retelling suicide stories to make everyone look worse, because I just don't roll like that.

Also, yes, I'm a horrible attentiion whore.
 
P

P90

Member
If my wife did what this Richard Li did she would be barred from practice for at least 12 months then put on probation, fired, and then sued by her employer and the client she falsified info on.

Dishonesty is dishonesty. But journalists are journalists. That must explain it. Throw them and politicians in the same boat. (Obviously not all journo or polis are dishonest, but there is a disproportionate amount of them that are. And they justify their dishonesty. errrrr!)
 
J

jett

D-Member
P90 said:
If my wife did what this Richard Li did she would be barred from practice for at least 12 months then put on probation, fired, and then sued by her employer and the client she falsified info on.

Dishonesty is dishonesty. But journalists are journalists. That must explain it. Throw them and politicians in the same boat. (Obviously not all journo or polis are dishonest, but there is a disproportionate amount of them that are. And they justify their dishonesty. errrrr!)
Click to expand...

Please, don't inuslt real journalists by comparing them to these people.
 
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