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Enterbrain confident in Wii maintaining its lead over PS3 in Japan

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KTallguy

Banned
ksamedi said:
Well they expanded the market with those games. Thats what the Wii is all about, Zelda and Wiisports sums it up. And thats also why the Wii is selling so well.

They expanded the market, sure! I totally agree.
But is that new market going to want games that aren't simple fun? I have no idea. There will be some overlap, but how much?

A Black Falcon said:
"New", not PSX ports...
Honestly, considering SCEA's views on 2d gaming, are many 2d games really expected on PSN (I have no idea, but my instinct would be to say "no"...)?

Flow is a 2D game.

I'm sure we'll see 2D content on Japan PSN, and if there's enough clamoring, maybe we'll see that stuff over here. I miss 2D content too :(
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
KTallguy said:
Mario sells on the fact that it's Mario. Everyone likes Mario. I can't think of one recent Mario game that sold poorly.

DDR Mario?
 

Mar

Member
KTallguy said:
They expanded the market, sure! I totally agree.
But is that new market going to want games that aren't simple fun?

Does it matter if they don't? The market for 'other' styles of games will remain the same.
 

KTallguy

Banned
Martoo said:
Does it matter if they don't? The market for 'other' styles of games will remain the same.

But will that market make up enough of the Wii base to make it worth it for companies to invest $$ in making games that cater to it?
 

Mar

Member
KTallguy said:
But will that market make up enough of the Wii base to make it worth it for companies to invest $$ in making games that cater to it?

I don't see why not. The hardcore gamer that likes to play those sorts of games will buy a Wii if those sorts of games go to that system. Just like they do now with PS3 and 360.
 

KTallguy

Banned
Martoo said:
I don't see why not. The hardcore gamer that likes to play those sorts of games will buy a Wii if those sorts of games go to that system. Just like they do now with PS3 and 360.

Sure when you have games like Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Halo etc. on Wii, maybe you'll see the hardcore segment migrate to the platform. For now, we don't have any word of those kinds of high caliber titles coming to the system.
 

Dave Long

Banned
You act like everyone who bought a Wii is some kind of alien.

Dude, the same people are buying Wii that bought a game system before, and more people too. Get off the ****ing high horse of OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING!
 

Deku

Banned
Holy shit ad KTsomesonyguy

He must either be living in rock, born in 1990 which would make his 1st system as a mature preteen the PlayStation or someone's joke character. Or all of the above.
 
Deku said:
Holy shit ad KTsomesonyguy

He must either be living in rock, born in 1990 which would make his 1st system as a mature preteen the PlayStation or someone's joke character. Or all of the above.

Not that I agree with him KTallguy or anything, but this is coming from a guy who didn't know about Sonic and Mario's rivalry.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
KTallguy said:
I'll quote Jaffe on this one. Do all games have to be fun? Are all movies fun? All books fun?

Games being pigeonholed as simple fun is not necessarily great for gaming as a medium. There's a place for games like this, in every gamer's library. But I hope that ALL games don't become this.
What.
I .... what?
No...I guess not...but movies/games/books that aren't fun..suck.
This Jaffe guy sounds like quite the idiot.
 

Deku

Banned
Pureauthor said:
Not that I agree with him KTallguy or anything, but this is coming from a guy who didn't know about Sonic and Mario's rivalry.

There was no rivalry in some parts of the world. :) only in NA and only for a few years. So yeah, people can miss that. But I know GAF is overwhelming NA centric in its population so I don't mind getting scorn for my ignorance to that historic rivalry.

Besides, if you think about it, kids today wouldn't think twice about Sonic and Mario being rivals which was kind of my point in the other thread. Having 2 former rivals featured on exclusive platformers for the Wii must be some kind of history making event (for those who lived through the early to mid 90s )
 

KTallguy

Banned
:lol at all you people saying I'm on some high horse. I'm just trying to have a rational debate.

I'm sure many hardcore gamers bought a Wii. I don't believe that the new market Nintendo is pulling with Brain Age/Wii Sports are hardcore gamers.

No...I guess not...but movies/games/books that aren't fun..suck.

Have you ever watched Schindler's List? Is that a fun movie?
What about Steven King books like Misery?
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
KTallguy said:
Have you ever watched Schindler's List? Is that a fun movie?
What about Steven King books like Misery?
I've not.
But let me wager that you're talking about "serious" works. Then yes, I've encountered serious works that are fun.
 

cvxfreak

Member
In case anyone was wondering, Sonic and Mario didn't really have a rivalry in Japan because Sonic wasn't too popular over there.
 

KTallguy

Banned
RevenantKioku said:
I've not.
But let me wager that you're talking about "serious" works. Then yes, I've encountered serious works that are fun.

Sure, but games = fun is something that should be rethought, reworked.

Sure, fun games are awesome! But what about games that aren't fun, but tap into other emotions. I'm not saying Wii doesn't have the potential to do these kinds of games though, if that's what people want to imply. :)

I'm going home, so see you all later.
 

Deku

Banned
KTallguy said:
:lol at all you people saying I'm on some high horse. I'm just trying to have a rational debate.

I'm sure many hardcore gamers bought a Wii. I don't believe that the new market Nintendo is pulling with Brain Age/Wii Sports are hardcore gamers.



Have you ever watched Schindler's List? Is that a fun movie?
What about Steven King books like Misery?

Specifically only person said you were on a high horse, so I'm not sure where the 'all' came from.

I've seen Schindler's List, it's one of my favorite movies, it is very moving. Whats your point? Are you now also the arbiter of whats fun?
 
Deku said:
There was no rivalry in some parts of the world. :) only in NA and only for a few years. So yeah, people can miss that. But I know GAF is overwhelming NA centric in its population so I don't mind getting scorn for my ignorance to that historic rivalry.

I live in a place where console gaming is essentially a nonfactorm and even I knew that Sonic and Mario went at it hammer and tongs back in the day.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
KTallguy said:
Sure, but games = fun is something that should be rethought, reworked.

Sure, fun games are awesome! But what about games that aren't fun, but tap into other emotions. I'm not saying Wii doesn't have the potential to do these kinds of games though, if that's what people want to imply. :)

I'm going home, so see you all later.
Uh, yeah sure they can tap into other emotions. Sure why the **** not.
But if it isn't fun, I'm not playing. If I'm not enjoying a movie ie not having fun, I'm not watching. Or not reading. Or not listening.
Sure, I do certain things for educational values, and I do certain things for entertainment values. But games are for my entertainment - for my hobby.
 

dirtmonkey37

flinging feces ---->
I've known this to be true since the initial figures of Wii's sales were released in conjunction with the general reaction of those around me. Wii is gonna' be huge.

In fact, although I want MS to succeed (I don't want to buy another expensive system to have become defunct in a matter of two years; yes, I've already purchased a 360), I will wager that the Wii will "win" this generation, in terms of # of units sold, by a noticeable margin.
 

PkunkFury

Member
KTallguy said:
Sure, fun games are awesome! But what about games that aren't fun, but tap into other emotions. I'm not saying Wii doesn't have the potential to do these kinds of games though, if that's what people want to imply. :)

Wii will have these types of games it's called SADNESS and Nibris said it's only coming to the Wii
 
KTallguy said:
I'm sure many hardcore gamers bought a Wii. I don't believe that the new market Nintendo is pulling with Brain Age/Wii Sports are hardcore gamers.
They're not hardcore gamers. What's your point? That many games won't fly on the Wii because of the non-gamers? Hardcore gamers will still eat it up. I still believe that getting a non-gamer to buy a Wii or DS is a success and expands the market. Everyone's got to start somewhere no?
 

P90

Member
KTallguy said:
Sure when you have games like Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Halo etc. on Wii, maybe you'll see the hardcore segment migrate to the platform. For now, we don't have any word of those kinds of high caliber titles coming to the system.


You haven't followed game sales for long have you? Casuals #s bring in the games that appeal to hardcore gamers. Look at the DS. End of story.
 

Deku

Banned
Pureauthor said:
I live in a place where console gaming is essentially a nonfactorm and even I knew that Sonic and Mario went at it hammer and tongs back in the day.
Singapore right? well, you're more exposed to the western trends and not as insular as some other places.
 
I sense in this thread much denial. We should have this same exact debate in eight months.

In the meantime you might want to ask yourselves why you think, based on two months of sales, that the Wii has legs.
 

P90

Member
Wonderdave said:
In the meantime you might want to ask yourselves why you think, based on two months of sales, that the Wii has legs.

Let's see:

1. Can't find one about anywhere
2. Mainstream press buzz
3. Game site buzz
4. Game forum buzz
5. The press has been so bad that PS3 = G. Bush
 

Jokeropia

Member
KTallguy said:
Nothing to do with deserving or not, but I fail to see evidence that they really want to. I really don't see people who love Wii sports suddenly jumping into a game like Virtua Fighter.
If the DS is anything to go by, the expanded "non-gamer" market has lead to higher sales for traditional games as well.
 
P90 said:
Let's see:

1. Can't find one about anywhere
2. Mainstream press buzz
3. Game site buzz
4. Game forum buzz
5. The press has been so bad that PS3 = G. Bush

So hype will sustain the Wii sales forever? Try again.
 

jman2050

Member
Wonderdave said:
So hype will sustain the Wii sales forever? Try again.

A varied selection of games catered to non-gamers. Pick up and play titles akin to those of Wii Sports that will receive positive press and bring in a lot of buyers. Also (hopefully) a bunch of traditional games that will satisfy the hardcore crowd.

Also See: Nintendo DS
 
Wonderdave said:
I sense in this thread much denial. We should have this same exact debate in eight months.

In the meantime you might want to ask yourselves why you think, based on two months of sales, that the Wii has legs.

Denial on who's part? Those who are saying the Wii will be very successful?

Well let me flip your question on you. In Japan, what is there to make us think that the PS3's sales will eventually pick up and the console will consistently sell a lot of units?
 

P90

Member
Wonderdave said:
I sense in this thread much denial. We should have this same exact debate in eight months.

In the meantime you might want to ask yourselves why you think, based on two months of sales, that the Wii has legs.

I will make a (obvious, risk-free) prediction: Solid Snake will be in a Wii game that will sell significantly better than MGS4 on the PS3.
 
EphemeralDream said:
Denial on who's part? Those who are saying the Wii will be very successful?

Well let me flip your question on you. In Japan, what is there to make us think that the PS3's sales will eventually pick up and the console will consistently sell a lot of units?

What is there to make you think this won't happen?

There are only two AAA games for the Wii this year, both sequels, but the AAA games aren't the issue the rest of the 77 games in development are lacking. Nintendo has always done a poor job of holding the middle. Two or if your lucky Three good games a year and a lot of crap otherwise. Wii lacks filler games, you know good but not great to tide you over between the megatons. For all the talk of massive third party support there is nothing outside of Nintendo first party and litttle within their first party offerings to compare with MGS4, DMC4, VF5 Or about a dozen other third party titles all of which may not be million sellers but will fill the PS3 library out much better than PS2/PSP ports.
 
Wonderdave said:
There are only two AAA games for the Wii this year, both sequels, but the AAA games aren't the issue the rest of the 77 games in development are lacking. Nintendo has always done a poor job of holding the middle. Two or if your lucky Three good games a year and a lot of crap otherwise. Wii lacks filler games, you know good but not great to tide you over between the megatons. For all the talk of massive third party support there is nothing outside of Nintendo first party and litttle within their first party offerings to compare with MGS4, DMC4, VF5 Or about a dozen other third party titles all of which may not be million sellers but will fill the PS3 library out much better than PS2/PSP ports.
So basically your answer is that you have a brain tumor. I'm sorry :(:(:(
 

jman2050

Member
Wonderdave said:
What is there to make you think this won't happen?

There are only two AAA games for the Wii this year, both sequels, but the AAA games aren't the issue the rest of the 77 games in development are lacking. Nintendo has always done a poor job of holding the middle. Two or if your lucky Three good games a year and a lot of crap otherwise. Wii lacks filler games, you know good but not great to tide you over between the megatons. For all the talk of massive third party support there is nothing outside of Nintendo first party and litttle within their first party offerings to compare with MGS4, DMC4, VF5 Or about a dozen other third party titles all of which may not be million sellers but will fill the PS3 library out much better than PS2/PSP ports.

*yawn* A very poor presentation of the same tired arguments. Many posters do this better. I give you a 3/10.
 

KINGMOKU

Member
Wonderdave said:
What is there to make you think this won't happen?

There are only two AAA games for the Wii this year, both sequels, but the AAA games aren't the issue the rest of the 77 games in development are lacking. Nintendo has always done a poor job of holding the middle. Two or if your lucky Three good games a year and a lot of crap otherwise. Wii lacks filler games, you know good but not great to tide you over between the megatons. For all the talk of massive third party support there is nothing outside of Nintendo first party and litttle within their first party offerings to compare with MGS4, DMC4, VF5 Or about a dozen other third party titles all of which may not be million sellers but will fill the PS3 library out much better than PS2/PSP ports.
WHAT?

There are only TWO AAA games for the Wii for the whole year?

What in the HELL are you smoking?

Matter of fact, list those AAA games, and explain why the other AAA games that are coming, are NOT AAA games.

I want to see you weasle your way out of this.
 

Jokeropia

Member
Wonderdave said:
What is there to make you think this won't happen?
The fact that Wii is outselling PS3 by more than 4 to 1, despite only the latter being widely available?

Wonderdave said:
There are only two AAA games for the Wii this year, both sequels, but the AAA games aren't the issue the rest of the 77 games in development are lacking. Nintendo has always done a poor job of holding the middle. Two or if your lucky Three good games a year and a lot of crap otherwise. Wii lacks filler games, you know good but not great to tide you over between the megatons. For all the talk of massive third party support there is nothing outside of Nintendo first party and litttle within their first party offerings to compare with MGS4, DMC4, VF5 Or about a dozen other third party titles all of which may not be million sellers but will fill the PS3 library out much better than PS2/PSP ports.
:lol There is so much bullshit in here I almost don't know where to start. :lol

Devil May Cry 3 sold less than 350k, retailers have only ordered 140k copies of VF5 and MGS cannot in any way compare with Smash Bros. Not to mention that Wii Sports and Wii Play most likely will continue to drive sales for quite a while yet. (And I'm sure Nintendo have more games of that sort coming up.) DQ swords should also easily outsell both DMC4 and VF5.
 
Wonderdave said:
What is there to make you think this won't happen?

There are only two AAA games for the Wii this year, both sequels, but the AAA games aren't the issue the rest of the 77 games in development are lacking. Nintendo has always done a poor job of holding the middle. Two or if your lucky Three good games a year and a lot of crap otherwise. Wii lacks filler games, you know good but not great to tide you over between the megatons. For all the talk of massive third party support there is nothing outside of Nintendo first party and litttle within their first party offerings to compare with MGS4, DMC4, VF5 Or about a dozen other third party titles all of which may not be million sellers but will fill the PS3 library out much better than PS2/PSP ports.

You realize that Nintendo will win Japan with its new IPs like the Wii titles and other oddball stuff, not its old franchises? And the Wii is definitely getting filler titles, just not what you would suspect. These are the anime shovelware titles, ports, licensed stuff, all the crap that ends up leading to a huge library. I will give you that Nintendo hasn't acquired as much high profile 3rd party games as PS3/360, but a lot of support has been coming to the Wii recently. Those big titles on the PS3/360 have been in development for a long time.

Your post is ban worthy IMO and shows no sign of familiarity with the Japanese market.
 

dirtmonkey37

flinging feces ---->
AdmiralViscen said:
Hey guys remember when Cube was lagging PS2 and Super Mario Sunshine bailed it out?

SMS was a great game too. Many despise the temporary design change(and by temporary I mean that Mario Galaxy has no water backpacks) but it was incredibly polished and fun.
 
It depends on what you mean by AAA games. Does that mean that a game has to sell a lot to be AAA, or do you think an AAA game is about quality?

Either way, Nintendo has a pretty damn good line-up coming up. for both sales and quality Super Paper Mario, Fire Emblem, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Animal Crossing Wii, Dragon Quest Swords, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles 2 and Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles, all are possibly coming out in the next year in Japan. This doesn't count in the filler titles like Mario Party 8, Naruto 5, Big Brain Academy Wii, and Mario Strikers Charged. In Japan at least, Nintendo is completely fine with this line-up. This is just the announced stuff as well, I wouldn't be surprised to find something like a Nintendogs or some sort of Wii fitness announced.
 
KTallguy said:
Sure when you have games like Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Halo etc. on Wii, maybe you'll see the hardcore segment migrate to the platform. For now, we don't have any word of those kinds of high caliber titles coming to the system.
Manhunt 2 has just been announced for Wii. "Hardcore" games now coming to the Wii. Don't you guys love it when the Nintendo haters get "owned" so quickly?! :lol
 

Mar

Member
Wonderdave said:
What is there to make you think this won't happen?

There are only two AAA games for the Wii this year, both sequels,

to compare with MGS4, DMC4, VF5

I found the irony of that quite amusing.

Also, while I don't expect the Wii to win this generation. I think it will do pretty well. And the fact that the Wii will lead for quite some time isn't based on number of games coming out. It's based on pure math. Go have a browse at the sales figures.
 

Ulairi

Banned
KTallguy said:
Sure when you have games like Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Halo etc. on Wii, maybe you'll see the hardcore segment migrate to the platform. For now, we don't have any word of those kinds of high caliber titles coming to the system.


Ya, I mean Metroid, Mario, SSB, no high caliber titles coming to the system. Mario will sell more units world wide than Halo 3 does.
 

justchris

Member
KTallguy said:
Let me reword it, as I took it a step further than you actually said (I apologize).

"You're again putting too much weight into horsepower. Also, I don't see where the "Fulfilling experience" argument comes from when we've already had one epic on the Wii."

What you're saying is essentially, the technology on the Wii can and will provide experiences that are AS or more "epic" (whatever that means), than it's competitors?

Well, obviously a fulfilling experience is subjective. Wii Sports is fulfilling for some but a simple party game for others, Final Fantasy XII is an epic game for some and a curse that drags on far too long for others.

I think the point is that Wii cannot provide specific gaming experiences that PS3 and Xbox 360 can. PS3 and Xbox 360 could potentially provide experiences like the Wii, with the proper peripherals. What if Sony/MS released casual party games with a motion controller in the box, for 50 bucks? Considering that it cost Nintendo practically nothing to actually develop Wii Sports the software (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just assuming here), PS3/360 could provide the exact same experience, in theory. Games like Singstar and Buzz prove that this model works.

I doubt that most Wii buyers are going to convert to PS3/360 any time soon. However, I consider the casual Wii market a completely separate market that has different needs and wants, and shouldn't be mixed with the Core gamer market at all. PS2 is great competition for Wii, with it's Eye Toy Camera and a variety of games.

I think the point people are trying to make, and that is being ignored, is that up to this point, neither the Xbox 360 nor the PS3 has proven they can offer anything that wasn't possible already on the PS2 except greater graphical fidelity.

The Wii has already proven that not only can it offer what was available on the PS2 (and therefore presumably on the 360/PS3) as well as game experiences that are not possible on the 360/PS3.

That's the point, you see. Yes, technology does make for innovation. The difference is, the technology of the Wii has already shown us innovation from the day it launched. The 360 has been out for a year, and the PS3 as long as the Wii, and we've yet to see any true innovation, anything that wasn't possible last generation.

No one knows what will come of the power the PS3 & 360 have to offer, and it may turn out they offer some incredible, breakout game that's just not possible on the Wii. But until and unless they do, the Wii is pretty much guaranteed the market leader position, since it can offer everything the PS3 & 360 do for less money, with the caveat that the graphics won't be as nice, as well as new experiences the others can't offer.

And this talk of 360/PS3 adding their own waggle wands doesn't really work. There are two options here, they can either add it as a peripheral, and it's already been discussed how peripheral's not packed in with the main console don't sell well. Or, they can do the same thing that was done with the PS1 & Genesis. Not offer it as a peripheral, but as a replacement standard controller. The only problem with that is, it would have to have at least as much functionalilty as the controller everyone already uses, or it runs the risk of splitting their userbase.

The Dualshock controller for the PS1 had all the same buttons and functions the original controller had, it just added analog sticks. Any kind of waggle wand for the PS3/360 would need to include 2 analog sticks, a control pad and 8 buttons, in addition to the motion control and direct pointing.
 

Tellaerin

Member
Apparently the die-hard Nintendo fans are convinced that there's no novelty factor at work in the success of the Wii so far. I'm inclined to disagree. I still think the 'gee whiz' response to seeing your gestures translated into actions on screen fueled a lot of the media and casual interest over the holidays. The Wii was 2006's Furby. :p And despite all the chest-thumping of the fanboys, thus far the Wiimote has yet to prove itself the inevitable successor to conventional controllers - it accomodates some genres better than a gamepad, and others not as well. Its big advantage right now is its accessibility to the casual gamer, but whether or not that's still going to be a big selling point once the initial novelty wears off remains to be seen.

Personally, I think that half the casuals who bought the Wii this Christmas will have moved on to some other fad six months from now, maybe pulling out the system for an occasional round of Wiisports with friends. I suspect the attach ratio is going to reflect this. Nintendo's handful of first-party games for the system are going to do well (as always), but I don't think many other developers are going to be making money on this new demographic that they're courting in the long run. I also think that people like Lapsed are going to be proven tragically wrong about the Wii bringing 'lapsed gamers' back into the fold in any significant way - playing the occasional party game with friends isn't guaranteed to translate to consistent gaming/software purchasing.

So yes, I can see the Wii eventually surrendering its lead to the X360 and PS3, as the trend-following casuals Nintendo's aiming at now move on to the next Big Thing, while the more traditional/'core' gamer audience buys systems designed and marketed to appeal to their tastes. I could be wrong, of course - just like those of you predicting a clean sweep for the Wii this generation could be wrong. We'll just have to see whose predictions end up panning out.
 
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