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[Jinko]

I think it was pretty obvious the PS2 would keep selling well it had an amazing catalogue of games.

Kind of just like the DS is still a better choice at the moment than a 3DS.

You can stick your head in the sand and go lalalalalalalala all you want. That's not going to stop the next Xbox from releasing before 2014. I'd say there's a 100% chance of it hitting in 2013, and probably a good 75% chance of it hitting the end of 2012.

I hope so, E3 will be awesome if true.

I can't remember but how much was known about the 360 before E3 2005 ?

 

[Blizzard]

I know this is nowhere near as impressive as the Samaritan demo, but a guy just posted a UDK project he did in 6 months by himself besides base textures and audio. The environment feel reminds me a little of Samaritan in some places, and I thought people in this thread might be interested in it. He apparently did not use tiledshot, and rendered it in realtime (though the frame rate got quite low in places and he said he did not have time to optimize it).

More pictures and video links are near the end of the UDK thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=35070003
(direct video link is NSFW http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8DiWUWPy6uU)

 

[statham]

I think especially earlier this gen the PS2, with its cheap price and enormous library, might have cost the Wii/360/PS3 some sales from new consumers. I agree though that the Wii won't have that kind of impact on next gen but what about a budget 360?

ps2/wii will not have a longing effect as they don't look good on hd, ps2 lasted awhile because at that time most people had a sd system. 360 has a chance of lasting since ts cheap, big catalog of games and is for most part HD.

 

[eso76]

I know this is nowhere near as impressive as the Samaritan demo,

well, characters and animation are awful, but i think environments are for the most part a lot more interesting than samaritan's

 

[nasos_333]

Developers have Xbox720 dev kits NOW. Where do you think the leaks are coming from. We've even seen rumors of final dev kits hitting in march/april of this year. Hell we've seen rumors the they've already started production on the final chips for dev kits. They don't usually sit on final dev kits for 2 years before releasing a system. The next Xbox will be out long before 2014. It's not going to have an HD8000 series part.

You can stick your head in the sand and go lalalalalalalala all you want. That's not going to stop the next Xbox from releasing before 2014. I'd say there's a 100% chance of it hitting in 2013, and probably a good 75% chance of it hitting the end of 2012.

http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/item/25619-oban-initial-product-run-is-real

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/12/05/exclusive-xbox-next-chip-just-taped-out/

http://www.vg247.com/2011/11/16/rumor-ubisoft-montreal-has-next-generation-xbox-devkit-in-house/

Where there's smoke there's usually fire.

720 will release in 2012 then ?

Because if it releases in 2013, the all those rumors would be laughable

Final dev kits years before release has never happened before

Also i would say there is zero chance it will release earlier than holiday 2013

I think it was pretty obvious the PS2 would keep selling well it had an amazing catalogue of games.

Kind of just like the DS is still a better choice at the moment than a 3DS.

I hope so, E3 will be awesome if true.

I can't remember but how much was known about the 360 before E3 2005 ?

With zero games to show and Halo 4 for 360 (plus Alan Wake, Fable, Ryse etc etc also for 360), a reveal of 720 this E3 would be a disaster of epic proportions imo

 

[Shin Johnpv]

720 will release in 2012 then ?

Because if it releases in 2013, the all those rumors would be laughable

Final dev kits years before release has never happened before

Please explain how all those rumors are laughable if it comes out in 2013? Unless you're about to pull some "MS always puts out amazing hardware, so of course the 720 will have future tech" kind of arguments then don't bother.


I'm not expecting a late 2013 release. I would say with in the first half of 2013.

 

[Jinko]

720 will release in 2012 then ?

Because if it releases in 2013, the all those rumors would be laughable

Final dev kits years before release has never happened before

Also i would say there is zero chance it will release earlier than holiday 2013

MS where way behind with 360 dev kits, they won't repeat that mistake again.

 

[Blizzard]

well, characters and animation are awful, but i think environments are for the most part a lot more interesting than samaritan's

Yeah, I mainly thought it was interesting from the perspective of "If one guy can do this in 6 months with the old version of the engine, I wonder what a new version could produce". Depending on whether the new version is easy to use, released to the masses in a UDK update (would be awesome but I'm afraid it won't happen), etc.

 

[OverHeat]

What gpu was in the alpha xbox 360 dev kit (g5mac) a ati X800xt ? So we might have a suprise for the final spec of the 720

 

[nasos_333]

Please explain how all those rumors are laughable if it comes out in 2013? Unless you're about to pull some "MS always puts out amazing hardware, so of course the 720 will have future tech" kind of arguments then don't bother.

I'm not expecting a late 2013 release. I would say with in the first half of 2013.

If they plan for the worst console launch of all time, they will definatly release it after holiday 2012

On the other hand, if they want to sell multiple million systems in a few months, they will go for holiday 2013

Like they did before and like WiiU does too

What gpu was in the alpha xbox 360 dev kit (g5mac) a ati X800xt ? So we might have a suprise for the final spec of the 720

I think was a 9800pro for the very early kits

MS where way behind with 360 dev kits, they won't repeat that mistake again.

In what ways was it a mistake ?

It is a simple strategy to have the very best hardware possible at launch and also have some games in the making early

It is an amazing practice than a mistake imo, it is not like having weaker hardware but earlier is better, in fact is far worst

 

[Brimstone]

Developers have Xbox720 dev kits NOW. Where do you think the leaks are coming from. We've even seen rumors of final dev kits hitting in march/april of this year. Hell we've seen rumors the they've already started production on the final chips for dev kits. They don't usually sit on final dev kits for 2 years before releasing a system. The next Xbox will be out long before 2014. It's not going to have an HD8000 series part.

You can stick your head in the sand and go lalalalalalalala all you want. That's not going to stop the next Xbox from releasing before 2014. I'd say there's a 100% chance of it hitting in 2013, and probably a good 75% chance of it hitting the end of 2012.

http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/item/25619-oban-initial-product-run-is-real

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/12/05/exclusive-xbox-next-chip-just-taped-out/

http://www.vg247.com/2011/11/16/rumor-ubisoft-montreal-has-next-generation-xbox-devkit-in-house/

Where there's smoke there's usually fire.

Of course there are developer kits out...that doesn't mean final specs. I wouldn't be suprised Cry Engine 3 is running on the kits.


What Microsoft needs to do next-gen is expand its market share in Europe and continue to grow the Xbox Live user base. How does the XB720 do that? I'd say timing the release date with Unreal Engine 4.

IF UE 4 gets into developers hands sometime in 2012, it'll take about 24 months for the first games to get rolling out. If your MS you want those games to look like a substantial leap ahead of XB360 games.

Sure MS can release hardware in 2013 that'll run UE 4 games...but waiting until 2014 they'll be able to create a full spectrum Xbox storm. Games will hit the ground running and really shine with a HD8000 GPU and gobs of fast RAM. The specs should easily achieve the "golden 10x" processing power goal that Tim Sweeney is talking about. Also it gives a bit more time to refine Kinect 2.

I think it is clear many expect 2013 and it is a reasonable assumption. A 2013 release is a tactical launch...a 2014 launch is a strategic launch.

 

[nasos_333]

Of course there are developer kits out...that doesn't mean final specs. I wouldn't be suprised Cry Engine 3 is running on the kits.


What Microsoft needs to do next-gen is expand its market share in Europe and continue to grow the Xbox Live user base. How does the XB720 do that? I'd say timing the release date with Unreal Engine 4.

IF UE 4 gets into developers hands sometime in 2012, it'll take about 24 months for the first games to get rolling out. If your MS you want those games to look like a substantial leap ahead of XB360 games.

Sure MS can release hardware in 2013 that'll run UE 4 games...but waiting until 2014 they'll be able to create a full spectrum Xbox storm. Games will hit the ground running and really shine with a HD8000 GPU and gobs of fast RAM. The specs should easily achieve the "golden 10x" processing power goal that Tim Sweeney is talking about. Also it gives a bit more time to refine Kinect 2.

I think it is clear many expect 2013 and it is a reasonable assumption. A 2013 release is a tactical launch...a 2014 launch is a strategic launch.

They can have a custom design based on 8000 series by holiday 2013 i am sure, like with 360

They dont have to push the release to 2014 for that imo

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I set the absolute latest either is going to launch is fall 2013.

Even though another Wii is unlikely, I doubt MS or Sony would give them any more than a year on the market alone. Especially since the system will be within portable range.

 

[Brimstone]

They can have a custom design based on 8000 series by holiday 2013 i am sure, like with 360

They dont have to push the release to 2014 for that imo

Well it would be less shooting from the hip from an engineering perspective. For Microsoft fanning the sixgun isn't necessary. They can hold until 2014 and use Power 8 CPU cores as well.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I still do think fall 2013.

 

[RoboPlato]

I'm thinking early-mid 2013 for the Next Xbox and fall 2013 for the PS4.

 

[snesfreak]

"720" (or whatever it'll be called) is not gonna use an 8000 series gpu.
I will say I doubt it will use a 6670 or whatever that rumor was, but your expectations are WAY too high.

 

[McHuj]

I'm thinking early-mid 2013 for the Next Xbox and fall 2013 for the PS4.

That's my thinking. Reveal at E3 and a big blowout of launch title announcements at the VGA's. I actually think the VGA's next winter will be pretty spectacular as far as next gen announcements go.

 

[themadcowtipper]

"720" (or whatever it'll be called) is not gonna use an 8000 series gpu.
I will say I doubt it will use a 6670 or whatever that rumor was, but your expectations are WAY too high.

You fanboy. The nexbox will be powered by two nuclear reactors, and will be in a case the size of a sardine can. How will MS fit such power into such a small case? Witchcraft.

 

[RoboPlato]

That's my thinking. Reveal at E3 and a big blowout of launch title announcements at the VGA's. I actually think the VGA's next winter will be pretty spectacular as far as next gen announcements go.

Exactly what I was thinking. Microsoft is going to let the 360 have one more big holiday with Halo 4 before releasing a new system. With God of War IV being so heavily rumored for PS3 it seems like Sony wants it to be a swan song for the system. They're not going to let Microsoft have a year head start again, especially if the rumors are true and the PS4 specs are a bit higher than the next Xbox's. There would be no point in waiting, they just need to get it out there.

 

[teh_pwn]

They can have a custom design based on 8000 series by holiday 2013 i am sure, like with 360

They dont have to push the release to 2014 for that imo

I think the best a 2012 console could get is a 7950 running at 500 MHz.

 

[RoboPlato]

I think the best a 2012 console could get is a 7950 running at 500 MHz.

That would still be a pretty beastly upgrade from the current gen.

 

[snesfreak]

You fanboy. The nexbox will be powered by two nuclear reactors, and will be in a case the size of a sardine can. How will MS fit such power into such a small case? Witchcraft.

Ah but how will that compare to the PS4, which will be a holodeck running on 24th century Star Trek TNG-like tech that Sony installs in your house?

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Of course there are developer kits out...that doesn't mean final specs.

The way the the articles are talking about it, it sounds pretty close to final. Specially with all the talk of the chip being "taped out" and "done". Since its a SoC design, I don't think they can just drop in a different GPU down the line. I would imagine if they're shipping silicon with CPU and GPU as a SoC, it's pretty much done and at most it's clock speed adjustments. Maybe some one like Brain_Stew or some one similar can comment on that.

Rumors have Wii-U final dev kits shipping, and it seems the rumors are pointing to April as when final Xbox 720 dev kits are supposed to be going out.

Yeah, basically, the chip is ‘done’, and first silicon likely went in to the oven in the last two weeks. If this is true, Microsoft should have silicon back in time to give the families of XBox systems engineers a miserable holiday season, their loved ones will be doing breakneck bring-up work on Xbox Next.
In any case, we hear the PoR is still for mass production in December 2012, but that could change quite a bit depending on bugs, foundries, software, and devs. If that date holds, add 3 months for first mass production silicon out of whoever ends up making them, a few weeks for system production, and likely a few months for stockpiling launch quantities. This means late spring or early summer 2013 for a launch.

Xbox 720 is coming before 2014.

 

[RoboPlato]

Ah but how will that compare to the PS4, which will be a holodeck running on 24th century Star Trek TNG-like tech that Sony installs in your house?

For $199.

 

[snesfreak]

For $599,999,999,999 US Dollars.

Fixed.

 

[themadcowtipper]

Fixed.

Still no cross game voice chat.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

"720" (or whatever it'll be called) is not gonna use an 8000 series gpu.
I will say I doubt it will use a 6670 or whatever that rumor was, but your expectations are WAY too high.

I'm thinking it's going to be something like a 7750/7770, at least based on the rumored specs of those cards.

 

[RoboPlato]

Still no cross game voice chat.

Not enough RAM for that. Anywhere. On Earth.

 

[themadcowtipper]

Not enough RAM for that. Anywhere. On Earth.

I hear they sell it cheap on newegg, no reason for the nexbox or ps4 atleast 8 gigs of ram.

 

[Brimstone]

"720" (or whatever it'll be called) is not gonna use an 8000 series gpu.
I will say I doubt it will use a 6670 or whatever that rumor was, but your expectations are WAY too high.

I can see a neutered XB720 in 2013 but I think it is more likely that...


Power 8
HD 8000
8 x the RAM = 4 GIG.

This hardware in 2014 with a 23" OLED display used in store kiosks to wow Joe Sixpack while having a Madden Football demo running.


It isn't just about Sony and Nintendo, they also want make sure Apple doesn't try play in the game console sandbox.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I can see a neutered XB720 in 2013 but I think it is more likely that...


Power 8
HD 8000
8 x the RAM = 4 GIG.

This hardware in 2014 with a 23" OLED display used in store kiosks to wow Joe Sixpack while having a Madden Football demo running.


It isn't just about Sony and Nintendo, they also want make sure Apple doesn't try play in the game console sandbox.

i agree

 

[themadcowtipper]

Too much ram i think the most we will see is 2 gigs.

 

[i-Lo]

Can RAM chips be stacked vertically like engineers are planning to do CPU chips?

 

[bgassassin]

Can RAM chips be stacked vertically like engineers are planning to do CPU chips?

I've seen in the past that there was stacked DDR3.

 

[ColonelColon]

"720" (or whatever it'll be called) is not gonna use an 8000 series gpu.
I will say I doubt it will use a 6670 or whatever that rumor was, but your expectations are WAY too high.

Why do you think an 8000 series GPU is unlikely to be included in the next Xbox? When 360 launched, it had a high-end GPU that hadn't yet been released. The 8000 series will encompass a wide spectrum of performance from entry-level to high-end, and will probably offer better performance-per-watt than the 7000 or 6000 series.

 

[iavi]

well, characters and animation are awful, but i think environments are for the most part a lot more interesting than samaritan's

This is my take too. If next-gen brings at least environments like this, I'll be more than set.

 

[Jtrizzy]

The thing that angers me about all this is that the consumer electronics industry has been pushing 1080p sets on us all these years, and now it looks like 720p30 for next gen.

Can I fucking get 1080p30 OR 720p60 fps? Shit is pissing me off. I made the jump from consoles to high end pc over the last 6 months. One thing I have learned is that playing games at a televisions native resolution is a big fucking improvement. I feel like Wiiu and PC is the future for people with IQ standards, but I know I'll end up with a PS4.

 

[RoboPlato]

The thing that angers me about all this is that the consumer electronics industry has been pushing 1080p sets on us all these years, and now it looks like 720p30 for next gen.

Can I fucking get 1080p30 OR 720p60 fps? Shit is pissing me off. I made the jump from consoles to high end pc over the last 6 months. One thing I have learned is that playing games at a televisions native resolution is a big fucking improvement. I feel like Wiiu and PC is the future for people with IQ standards, but I know I'll end up with a PS4.

1080p30 is not out of the question yet. I still have a lot of hope that it can be achieved with what the companies are planning for next gen, even Nintendo. It's not nearly as big of a jump in resolution as last gen to this gen was and processor and GPU efficiency has improved a lot since then. 1080p60 is going to be super rare outside of downloadable titles though.

 

[Nirolak]

I know this is nowhere near as impressive as the Samaritan demo, but a guy just posted a UDK project he did in 6 months by himself besides base textures and audio. The environment feel reminds me a little of Samaritan in some places, and I thought people in this thread might be interested in it. He apparently did not use tiledshot, and rendered it in realtime (though the frame rate got quite low in places and he said he did not have time to optimize it).

On a slightly related note, I feel I should note that all the features that are used in Samaritan actually went into an Unreal Engine 3 update that month.

Really the primary thing they added was DirectX 11 support. Samaritan was just one of the first things to try using that with a high amount of computation power.

 

[i-Lo]

The thing that angers me about all this is that the consumer electronics industry has been pushing 1080p sets on us all these years, and now it looks like 720p30 for next gen.

Can I fucking get 1080p30 OR 720p60 fps? Shit is pissing me off. I made the jump from consoles to high end pc over the last 6 months. One thing I have learned is that playing games at a televisions native resolution is a big fucking improvement. I feel like Wiiu and PC is the future for people with IQ standards, but I know I'll end up with a PS4.

I can already tell you that you'd be seeing a substantial amount of 1080p@30/60 fps titles under the heading of "Remastered" from 360. Yeah, the so "True HD" remakes of "HD" games.

 

[Jtrizzy]

1080p30 is not out of the question yet. I still have a lot of hope that it can be achieved with what the companies are planning for next gen, even Nintendo. It's not nearly as big of a jump in resolution as last gen to this gen was and processor and GPU efficiency has improved a lot since then. 1080p60 is going to be super rare outside of downloadable titles though.

I hope you are right, but this thread isn't giving me much confidence. It is a good read though.

I may do some ps3/pc comparisons on my tv for fun though...What settings should I put on BF3 to equal consoles (ps3) other than resolution?

 

[sp3000]

I hope you are right, but this thread isn't giving me much confidence. It is a good read though.

I may do some ps3/pc comparisons on my tv for fun though...What settings should I put on BF3 to equal consoles (ps3) other than resolution?

All on lowest, although I think that's still higher than what the PS3 does.

There isn't much difference between low and high in BF3 anyway.

 

[rosjos44]

Will WiiU be able to run Unreal 4? Or is it still to early to tell? I guess we will know for sure at E3.

 

[Jtrizzy]

What kind of video player do I need to play that 3 gig Samaritan video? It won't play in quicktime or wmp.

 

[RoboPlato]

Will WiiU be able to run Unreal 4? Or is it still to early to tell? I guess we will know for sure at E3.

I'm sure it will. UE4 will definitely be as scaleable as UE3, which even runs on the iPhone and iPad.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I searched for the original report on the rumor and nowhere was it implied that it would be a 550mm^2 chip. A 550mm^2 (or anything over 400mm^2) chip would be very problematic for a console chip anyway. I do agree that the bandwidth could be a very attractive feature.

I think one of the reports basically said that even if it was ludicrously large (550mm^2) it was still a surprisingly large order just for devkits (like 10,000+). It was not intended to be an estimation of the actual size of the part, but it was taken that way by some.

 

[professor_t]

When was the last time Nintendo released a gaming device (handheld, home console, whatever) at a significant loss (for these purposes, let's define "significant" as the amount that MS lost on the 360 when it first released)?

With its new-fangled controller, what are the odds that the Wii U can be 4-5 times as powerful as the 360 and yet adhere to Nintendo's recent -- and very successful -- philosophy of staying in or near the black on hardware releases?

I'm not saying that Nintendo won't be willing to lose money out of the gate, but if they *did* refuse to lose money, could they still release something fairly robust, fancy controller and all?

Not picking sides here -- just genuinely curious.

 

[Blizzard]

On a slightly related note, I feel I should note that all the features that are used in Samaritan actually went into an Unreal Engine 3 update that month.

Really the primary thing they added was DirectX 11 support. Samaritan was just one of the first things to try using that with a high amount of computation power.

Yeah, they made it into the UDK, and I think tessellation remains a performance killer. If I recall correctly, the guy who made the dystopia movie I linked said it was the single biggest performance killer in his movie.

 

[DocTarHeel]

What kind of video player do I need to play that 3 gig Samaritan video? It won't play in quicktime or wmp.

It runs in both for me.