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Escapist runs piece on Star Citizen employee woes. Disputed sources.

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Lime

Member
Why are we listening to The Escapist? They're willingly supporting a hate movement, they are even paying and giving a platform to one of their bigoted conspiracy theorists. They are disgusting and vile and should be ashamed of themselves.

They're the Breitbart of video game journalism and they should be faced with serious reprimands for the harm they have done to other people and the video game industry by supporting and sucking up to gaming' segment of racist sexist conspiracy nuts.
 

tuxfool

Banned
But that has absolutely nothing to do with this. The laughable part are the connections being made in an attempt to discredit the author by means of establishing some crackpot agenda.

His response reeks of frustration. It isn't pretty, but given this kind of stuff is a repeat of the DS playbook, which the author has had extensive contact with, plus some very serious criminal accusations one has to wonder why the author didn't request a comment from the accused?
 

wildfire

Banned
His response reeks of frustration. It isn't pretty, but given this kind of stuff is a repeat of the DS playbook, which the author has had extensive contact with, plus some very serious criminal accusations one has to wonder why the author didn't request a comment from the accused?

They did request a comment. That's why Roberts was spending half a day writing it. One of the problems was that the Escapist said they were going to publish without waiting for his response.
 
Luckily this game will eventually come out or not, and beans will be spilled. So this drama is really just for those with a stake in it.
 

Sijil

Member
Call me crazy but I'm just not buying it that they would lie about having multiple sources or about where they got their info. I mean why would they? Is it really so hard to believe that there are things going on behind the scenes in the obviously drawn out development of this game? Regardless of the laughable attempts to discredit the author I'm just not seeing any cause for these allegations of agenda driven falsifications. It's absurd.

If you're going to call someone a racist so clearly you better have some proof, real evidence, but they didn't present any evidence aside from "sources" that are conveniently secret, same with the DS allegations, what are those "sources" afraid of? Chris Roberts isn't exactly Putin and he isn't going to assassinate them.

Motivation? Clickbait, hits, what else tabloids do to generate interest? The fact that they didn't post CR's response at this same time speaks volumes of the motivation. And unless Sandi sues for defamation they'll get away with it
 
Are there bad days? Sure, what job doesn’t have good and bad days. Do my bosses have high expectations and demand excellence? Of course, and well they should, and the more I am challenged, the better I become, not just at my job, but as a human too. Am I sometimes asked to do things with too few resources and not enough time? Yep, welcome to the real world. This is how real life operates. We used to joke when I was in the military that you could take a group of Navy cooks, and assign them to build a house. You provide them a pallet of rotting wood and rusted nails, and tell them it needs to be done by tomorrow morning. The first thing these Sailors would do would be to start incessantly complaining what a raw deal they were getting, and that what they were asked to do was impossible, but the next morning low and behold, those cooks found a way to build that house.

Those are the teams that I want be a part of. The kind of teams where we make the impossible happen. There is an incredible level of satisfaction and sense of accomplishment taken from being able to overcome obstacles, and push yourself to do good work, even in less than ideal circumstances.

Crap like this is what drives me insane.

This doesn't actually say there isn't a toxic environment, a lack of leadership, or unrealistic expectations placed on overworked team members. It actually confirms most of that, but with a caveat of 'but it isn't that bad'.

There's always one. Always. There's always one asshole that, no matter how bad things get, will bend over backwards to point out he had it worse when he was a coal miner in Chile so this bullshit isn't 'that bad'.
 

dLMN8R

Member
It's not exactly unlikely or difficult to find a few terrible people in a company of 250+ who will fabricate bullshit to tarnish their employer they left on bad terms.
 

wildfire

Banned
If you're going to call someone a racist so clearly you better have some proof, real evidence, but they didn't present any evidence aside from "sources" that are conveniently secret, same with the DS allegations, what are those "sources" afraid of?


Getting blackballed by the industry before finding a new job?

I agree we can't take their word for it and I find it very suspicious that most of those negative glass door reviews only came out within the last 5 days but Roberts had defended himself in certain ways that makes this believable to an extant.

The only proof that seems to exist are the emails both sides are talking about but noone from either side is willing to publish those emails and honestly it wouldn't be smart for CiG to do it so it's all in the sources for Escapist to pull the trigger.
 

watership

Member
On the one hand, I've been skeptical about Star Citizen delivering for a while now, but on the other Derek Smart is clearly an abject piece of human garbage, so it's hard to know what to make of all this.

This. I believe it's healthy to be critical of this game, and the way it's being made. Simply because there has never been a game like this in scope and how it has come to be. I still want it to be made. I was it to succeed. This is not remotely true of people who just want to see it burn, Like Derek Smart.

Reading the Escapist lately has also been... crazy. What the fuck happened to that site?
 

Instro

Member
Crap like this is what drives me insane.

This doesn't actually say there isn't a toxic environment, a lack of leadership, or unrealistic expectations placed on overworked team members. It actually confirms most of that, but with a caveat of 'but it isn't that bad'.

There's always one. Always. There's always one asshole that, no matter how bad things get, will bend over backwards to point out he had it worse when he was a coal miner in Chile so this bullshit isn't 'that bad'.

Why did you skip the other paragraphs..? As in the ones expressly denying the comments on it being a toxic work environment.
 

tuxfool

Banned
They did request a comment. That's why Roberts was spending half a day writing it. One of the problems was that the Escapist said they were going to publish without waiting for his response.

Ah. It isn't any less despicable. They were perfectly happy to paint Derek Smart as an informed observer (and in no way a crackpot) in their previous article. There is no justification for running this story the way they did.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness

One more:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n59ft/working_at_cig_from_a_cig_employee/cvkyosh

Disco Lando (Jared Huckaby) said:
I've had a lot of jobs over the years, because I recognized early on that I learned better from experience than from schooling. Because of this, I took a lot of jobs and left a lot of jobs when I felt I'd learned what I could from them. I've worked as, in no particular order:

a Construction Contractor, a Barista, an IT Professional, an actual High School Drama Teacher, an Audio Engineer for both Television and Radio, a Retail Supervisor or Manager several times over, a Professional Baseball Mascot, a Telemarketer, a Stage and Film Actor, a WoW Game Master, a Prosthetics Support Specialist, a Home Improvement Professional, a Director of Operations for a Professional Baseball Team, a Cashier, a Mr. Trash, a Theme Park Performer, a Truck Loader, a Published Author of textbooks and magazine articles, a Hospitality Worker and a few others that escape recall at this moment.

I mention all this because there are all kinds of jobs, and all kinds of workplaces, and what's right for one isn't necessarily right for another, and for many workplaces, you never know if it's going to be a good fit between employee and employer until you get there. Before I came to Star Citizen, as a devout backer, I thought I knew everything I needed to about working for Star Citizen.

And I've never been more wrong in my life.

This is so much better than I expected.

This is a place for gamers, and when I say that, I mean people that come READY TO PLAY. The work is hard, the hours are long, and the rewards... well, the rewards are history in the making.

The people that are here are as dedicated as any I've met on any job I've had. They come in early and stay late, and they work under the light of a community that can be both supportive and demanding in equal measure. I've seen every emotion in the human specturm from my fellow employees in the time I've been here, because for many, this isn't just a job: you build a very real attachment to the thing. It resonates deeply when people are pleased with what they're seeing, as much as it does when they do not. This collective endeavor to do the thing they say can't be done, that's never been done, and then to do it in a form and manner that's scares the industry must scare the crap out of some people. It makes sense that it would.

But courage isn't the absence of fear, it's the ability to let that fear inform your actions and proceed intelligently anyway.

Ands that's what I see people doing here each and every day. It's hard work building the impossible, and it's not for everyone. People will come and people will go because of this. Speaking only for myself, this place quickly became a home. My co-workers were dedicated, my superiors easily approachable, and it's a rare day that some aspect of this amazing development doesn't surprise or astonish me. I feel like I wandered in the desert for so many years, looking for my place in things, and I don't feel that way anymore.

This is the place where I belong.

With Chris and Sandi and Ben and Alexis and Thomas and Toast (I still can't call him Steven) and everyone else that comes in each day to make the impossible possible. It's okay to be afraid, but it's even better to have the courage to succeed as well. And to those of you that do:

I'll see you in the 'Verse.
 
Why did you skip the other paragraphs..? As in the ones expressly denying the comments on it being a toxic work environment.

Because it was a fucking bait and switch. "It couldn't be further from the truth BUT... here's the ways in which it is true that I will now downplay as positives."

I've seen that a million times before.
 

Lime

Member
This. I believe it's healthy to be critical of this game, and the way it's being made. Simply because there has never been a game like this in scope and how it has come to be. I still want it to be made. I was it to succeed. This is not remotely true of people who just want to see it burn, Like Derek Smart.

Reading the Escapist lately has also been... crazy. What the fuck happened to that site?

They want that Breitbart money. Lying and pandering to an entrenched segment of people. Because the staff or whoever is in charge either is a huge bigot by actually believing the stories or just wants to make up hate-filled shit to get clicks.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
One day in the not too distant future, Star Citizen will be released in its entirety and will be fully playable. All the detractors it has had up until that point can then collectively go suck a fart. The funny thing is that some of them will be so dirty that they were wrong, like they have something to lose by its release...
 
So much drama on both sides. Makes me more and more interested to see how this eventually turns out.

As someone who didn't invest, I hope it turns out well.

One day in the not too distant future, Star Citizen will be released in its entirety and will be fully playable. All the detractors it has had up until that point can then collectively go suck a fart. The funny thing is that some of them will be so dirty that they were wrong, like they have something to lose by its release...

On the other hand though, I see a lot of really really strong supporters; and there will be a lot egg of faces if it doesn't go well. I'll feel bad though, that's so much money for it not to reach its complete fruition.
 

tuxfool

Banned
So much drama on both sides. Makes me more and more interested to see how this eventually turns out.

As someone who didn't invest, I hope it turns out well.



On the other hand though, I see a lot of really really strong supporters; and there will be a lot egg of faces if it doesn't go well. I'll feel bad though, that's so much money for it not to reach its complete fruition.

Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
(Today, 12:12 AM)
 

Lyriell

Member
Games development is an unfairly hard business and almost anyone not at the top of the industry will tell you outright it is an unfair, difficult one to work in that they do out of passion and because it's their dream. Nobody does it for the wonderful working environment and benefits.

Also the internet has its fair share of passionate hate filled misguided vigilanties.

The problem here is that the video game industry is toxic and that people want to look for newsworthy drama to promote themselves and their click rate so they get paid.

I think there is plenty of evidence this game is being made and CIG do a lot to communicate with their community.

Remember things are different in the world since Chris Roberts was running Origin and then he had people like Richard Garriot to help. His response comes across to me like a passionate man just wanting people to calm the heck down and leave him alone so he can keep on pushing the dream.

Sure he doesnt come across as A PR trained non-committed drone, his anxiety is probably from the same stress these supposed workers have. That of having to push a 90mil dream to fruition.

Also...

I think people get too caught up in feeling they are owed something dor donating money to a kickstarter

You are backing a dream that may not become a reality. I'd rather be hopeful than spend my time complaining about something I could easily get a refund for if I wanted.

Far out man...
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Too_Big_to_Fail_StarCitizen.jpg


Star Citizen really is too big to fail. There's no real need for a "sky is falling" response. Enough interest has been proven that someone will back this across the finish line.

That said, the Escapist article is a rumor-mongering piece about office politics that allows anonymous sources to air their grudges and grievances without consequence.

This type of reporting strikes me generally as clickbait that can be harmful and irresponsible whether the Escapist does it to Chris Roberts, Kotaku does it to Denis Dyack, or Polygon does it to Ken Levine.
 

Hylian7

Member
Also...

I think people get too caught up in feeling they are owed something dor donating money to a kickstarter

You are backing a dream that may not become a reality. I'd rather be hopeful than spend my time complaining about something I could easily get a refund for if I wanted.

Far out man...

When you make promises about something and ask for money for said something you make promises about, yes, you can say those people are definitely owed something. Saying otherwise is just advocating free reign to screw over backers.

Also I haven't followed too closely, as I'm not a SC backer, but can you get a refund if you backed?

Too_Big_to_Fail_StarCitizen.jpg


Star Citizen really is too big to fail. There's no real need for a "sky is falling" response. Enough interest has been proven that someone will back this across the finish line.

That said, the Escapist article is a rumor-mongering piece about office politics that allows anonymous sources to air their grudges and grievances without consequence.

This type of reporting strikes me generally as clickbait that can be harmful and irresponsible whether the Escapist does it to Chris Roberts, Kotaku does it to Denis Dyack, or Polygon does it to Ken Levine.

"too big to fail" is a total load of bull. See THQ, Activision (Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 5), Might No. 9 (which still has yet to release and has been delayed, what, twice now? I get improving it, but the fact that people were saying it wasn't too good before doesn't bode well), Yogventures, Clang, The Stomping Land, and many more!
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
My confirmation bias is tingling.

It's really shitty that Robert's crap made people physically ill, though. Stress is freaking terrible.
 

maxiell

Member
The piece aside (it's a mess), most coverage of this massive crowdfunding undertaking that deserved scrutiny and investigation consisted of "Star Citizen has raised X amount of money this month" in the regular outlets. The only reason an article like this even had a chance of being written is that no credible reporter was writing about the topic.

Chris Roberts is a hugely interesting figure and the fate of this project seems worthy of more serious consideration. Instead we get Derek Smart.
 

tuxfool

Banned
The piece aside (it's a mess), most coverage of this massive crowdfunding undertaking that deserved scrutiny and investigation consisted of "Star Citizen has raised X amount of money this month" in the regular outlets. The only reason an article like this even had a chance of being written is that no credible reporter was writing about the topic.

Umm. yeah totally.
 
Fuck the Escapist. I have literally no reason to trust or believe any of this. They have shown time and again they are garbage.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Yeah, we've been hearing from and talking to various current and former employees at CIG for a while now. I've spent a ton of time editing and working with others on the team and we've published a couple of things so far. Part of our job is to determine what's relevant, concrete information that's actually worth reporting and what's just gossip from employees who are angry for one reason or another.

FWIW, this is one of the most disgusting pieces of reporting I've ever seen, and I'm legit shocked that any professional website would publish something like "It was also claimed that Gardiner used race as a determining factor in selecting employees, allegedly once saying 'We aren't hiring her. We aren't hiring a black girl'" without crystal-clear sourcing and evidence (and without giving the person in question a chance to defend herself).

What's really ironic is that the Escapist article's author is a huge figure of GamerGate, a movement about ethics in journalism.

Oh you
 

Krejlooc

Banned
haha this topic wound up being funny. A hit piece on Star Citizen citing awful working conditions from anonymous sources leads to multiple developers and former developers of CIG coming out and putting their names on statements saying the opposite.
 

mjp2417

Banned
They want that Breitbart money. Lying and pandering to an entrenched segment of people. Because the staff or whoever is in charge either is a huge bigot by actually believing the stories or just wants to make up hate-filled shit to get clicks.

Alexander Macris (dude who owns The Escapist) is a legit frothing right wing nutjob, so i don't think this is a cynical attempt to dupe a bunch of goobers. The management is actually as crazy as its intended audience.
 

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
It's clear in this thread who didn't even bother reading Chris' reply and just boarded blindly on the Cloud Imperium bashing train. It's really pathetic.

The Escapist should be a banned site.
 

Hylian7

Member
It's clear in this thread who didn't even bother reading Chris' reply and just boarded Cloud Imperium bashing train.

The Escapist should be a banned site.

The Escapist piece was pure garbage but I'm really not a fan of the way SC has been managed, and also think that Chris's reply was kind of bad PR.
 

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
The Escapist piece was pure garbage but I'm really not a fan of the way SC has been managed, and also think that Chris's reply was kind of bad PR.

I agree with you that Star Citizen could be managed and communicated better. I also think the prices on their store are obscene. But this hit piece (and goddamn Derek Smart) is something else entirely.

I wished CIG put out more videos (weekly) showing us what's going on.

Edit: they put out around 3 videos a week. That's goddamn heaps.
 
I agree with you that Star Citizen could be managed and communicated better. I also think the prices on their store are obscene. But this hit piece (and goddamn Derek Smart) is something else entirely.

I wished CIG put out more videos (weekly) showing us what's going on.

CIG has like 3 videos every week,
 
I say where theres smoke theres fire. Glad i dont have money in this trainwreck.

Will grab the finished copy though, if that ever happens.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
haha this topic wound up being funny. A hit piece on Star Citizen citing awful working conditions from anonymous sources leads to multiple developers and former developers of CIG coming out and putting their names on statements saying the opposite.

Ha, that is pretty funny when you put it that way.
 

Skux

Member
I can see it happening. Imagine someone just gave you $50 million and said "make a game". Star Citizen's went too big, too soon. It's great to have ambition but there's been very little time to establish infrastructure, management, and a working culture, especially when your development teams are spread out all over the world.
 
Sigh. I remember when the Escapist was a nice little site that did silly gaming related videos, and had some occasionally decent, level headed opinion and review pieces.

How far they have fallen.

I've not backed SC, nor do I really plan to until I see what Squadron 42 is actually like.
But I know a FUD campaign when I see one.
 

SmartBase

Member
Since when has "follow the money" not been valid? They're hiring more people and finished integrating their new Frankfurt studio so them running out of funds any time soon seems unlikely.
 

Kwixotik

Member
They both seem like awful people. I would guess the studio is a hostile, directionless place and Derek Smart is an asshole. They're not mutually exclusive.
 
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