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[Dictator93]

Reads like a FUD hit piece. Roberts shouldn't even be responding, particularly not through the Escapist. If he wanted to respond he should have done it through his own forum/website.

I have no doubt there are some issues at the studio, as with most game studios, but this article seems like junk. The whole Derek Smart+GG involvement makes me even less inclined to believe most of this.

He responded through his own website and a really long email that he screenshotted. But for some reason the escapist did not wait to post the story... IT NEEDED TO GET OUT NOW.

This is a farcical situation in a lot of ways... and the connection of Derek Smart and the author to GG is not to be underestimated.
It is a shame that most people will come off this as "this is a fraudulent project with a racist, bigotted, and criminal development team".

 

[ScatheZombie]

I'm not going to derail this thread by getting into random stories Kotaku has reported in the past, but I will say that we have never and would never publish anything like this.

And I completely believe that. Here's something I want to clarify. I honestly think you are one of the better reporters in the business. And definitely the best at Kotaku. But you work in an industry absolutely brimming with immature, unprofessional hacks whose business model encourages, even demands, quantity over quality and controversy over subject. And even you, one of the top reporters in this industry, have done some pretty unprofessional bullshit in the past.

So, to act 'shocked' that someone would post crap like this is disingenuous at best because this is just par for the course from games journalism.

 

[inky]

Yeah, we've been hearing from and talking to various current and former employees at CIG for a while now. I've spent a ton of time editing and working with others on the team and we've published a couple of things so far. Part of our job is to determine what's relevant, concrete information that's actually worth reporting and what's just gossip from employees who are angry for one reason or another.

FWIW, this is one of the most disgusting pieces of reporting I've ever seen, and I'm legit shocked that any professional website would publish something like "It was also claimed that Gardiner used race as a determining factor in selecting employees, allegedly once saying 'We aren't hiring her. We aren't hiring a black girl'" without crystal-clear sourcing and evidence (and without giving the person in question a chance to defend herself).

What's really ironic is that the Escapist article's author is a huge figure of GamerGate, a movement about ethics in journalism.

Exactly what brought up the red flags for me. It has a very dishonest feel about it.

 

[Lalalandia]

You sound like a Gamergater! I'm not going to derail this thread by getting into random stories Kotaku has reported in the past, but I will say that we have never and would never publish anything like this. Look at this sentence again:

"It was also claimed that Gardiner used race as a determining factor in selecting employees, allegedly once saying 'We aren't hiring her. We aren't hiring a black girl.'"

Where is the sourcing here? The first part of the sentence uses passive language -- "It was also claimed" -- which is awful, cowardly writing that presents a horrible accusation about a real person without explaining where it came from or why the author believes it's true. Earlier in the graf the author cites someone named CS1 -- I guess codenames are fun -- which could imply that the accusation came from them, but that's thin sourcing by any definition of the word, and no responsible reporter would ever allege that someone said something this horrible with such flimsy evidence backing them up.

Good point, passive voice is a really cheap device. I look forward to reading future articles on CIG and Star Citizen and seeing if there is any truth to the claims of a nasty workplace culture.

Chris Roberts really needs to start taking advice from someone who knows PR, unfiltered he's terrible at responding to this stuff. The Escapist may be garbage but spending most of your response pointing that out makes you look like you've something to hide.

 

[Danthrax]

He responded through his own website and a really long email that he screenshotted. But for some reason the escapist did not wait to post the story... IT NEEDED TO GET OUT NOW.

They didn't actually screenshot the email. They put up a crappy "computer monitor" background image behind a bunch of selectable text that we can only assume is copied and pasted. You can even click on the links and whatnot. =P

 

[Griss]

Chris Robert's response is a serious mess. Does not reflect well on him at all. Desperately needed to get a PR agency or someone emotionally removed from the situation to tell him how to address this.

Stay above the fray, don't speculate, calmly bat aside all allegations and commit to the project you're working on.

Instead we had bizarre allegations that the disgruntled ex-employees are puppets for someone called Derek Smart (this is bizarre, imo) and then accusations against the reporter supported by random twitter screens. Seriously unedifying.

Poor show, Chris.

And yes, I will be shocked if Star Citizen ever comes out as a complete and finished game.

 

[Machina]

I bet whoever the EiC that approved this one is enjoys their job

 

[Shining Sunshine]

People need to start demanding the base game then, and NOT just with Star Citizen.

Even crowd-funded games will have issues if everybody starts drooling over the possibilities too soon.

Like, just get a game out. Make it good. If people want extra, they'll up their contribution but that should be saved for after it's assured that the base game will release as a complete product.

It's frustrating seeing developers get in over their heads. Ambition is great but giving your backers a game should come first.

I don't think you'll get that with an old cronies like Chris Roberts.
These old devs are on their retirement swansong and will drag down everyone to achieve their vision.

They need to hire someone, like Patrice Desilets, who can execute a polished plan to getting a game out in a short time. I remember hearing stories about how he was able to bring Prince of Persia Sands of Time out with 6 months development.

 

[mnannola]

Reads like a FUD hit piece. Roberts shouldn't even be responding, particularly not through the Escapist. If he wanted to respond he should have done it through his own forum/website.

I have no doubt there are some issues at the studio, as with most game studios, but this article seems like junk. The whole Derek Smart+GG involvement makes me even less inclined to believe most of this.

Yep I am with you. I would not be surprised to learn that Derrick Smart wrote half of those emails. I'm sure everything is not perfect at Star Citizen, and I'm sure that whatever dates they are currently targeting the full game to be launched will be delayed. There will also be a ton of stuff they have in the design docs that will either be toned down or cut altogether. A lot of this stuff just sounds like BS though.

 

[Akronis]

Yeah, we've been hearing from and talking to various current and former employees at CIG for a while now. I've spent a ton of time editing and working with others on the team and we've published a couple of things so far. Part of our job is to determine what's relevant, concrete information that's actually worth reporting and what's just gossip from employees who are angry for one reason or another.

FWIW, this is one of the most disgusting pieces of reporting I've ever seen, and I'm legit shocked that any professional website would publish something like "It was also claimed that Gardiner used race as a determining factor in selecting employees, allegedly once saying 'We aren't hiring her. We aren't hiring a black girl'" without crystal-clear sourcing and evidence (and without giving the person in question a chance to defend herself).

What's really ironic is that the Escapist article's author is a huge figure of GamerGate, a movement about ethics in journalism.

Well said. You the man Jason.

 

[Dictator93]

They didn't actually screenshot the email. They put up a crappy "computer monitor" background image behind a bunch of selectable text that we can only assume is copied and pasted. You can even click on the links and whatnot. =P

You would think my prodding eyes concerning graphics would notice that. lol

 

[Instro]

He did respond through his website, then Escapist updated their article.

Oh I see, I was confused by the article. Hard to parse all of this on my phone.

 

[Jeremy]

It's never been done because it can't be done.
- Several sources

Legendary.

Some of this really does seem to be Derek Smart's doing, almost down to the wording. Roberts sounds frustrated.

 

[KKRT00]

Stay above the fray, don't speculate, calmly bat aside all allegations and commit to the project you're working on.

And he was doing that for the last few months and it didnt help the situation at all.
You would be frustrated as well in his situation.

---

They didn't actually screenshot the email. They put up a crappy "computer monitor" background image behind a bunch of selectable text that we can only assume is copied and pasted. You can even click on the links and whatnot. =P

Thats actually pretty funny I have not noticed it myself.

 

[jusufin]

You sound like a Gamergater! I'm not going to derail this thread by getting into random stories Kotaku has reported in the past, but I will say that we have never and would never publish anything like this. Look at this sentence again:

"It was also claimed that Gardiner used race as a determining factor in selecting employees, allegedly once saying 'We aren't hiring her. We aren't hiring a black girl.'"

Where is the sourcing here? The first part of the sentence uses passive language -- "It was also claimed" -- which is awful, cowardly writing that presents a horrible accusation about a real person without explaining where it came from or why the author believes it's true. Earlier in the graf the author cites someone named CS1 -- I guess codenames are fun -- which could imply that the accusation came from them, but that's thin sourcing by any definition of the word, and no responsible reporter would ever allege that someone said something this horrible with such flimsy evidence backing them up.

100% agree, that's a heavy accusation to throw at someone without any solid proof.

 

[TemplaerDude]

I can't believe people are talking about Derek Smart in 2015.

 

[Fehyd]

You sound like a Gamergater! I'm not going to derail this thread by getting into random stories Kotaku has reported in the past, but I will say that we have never and would never publish anything like this. Look at this sentence again:

"It was also claimed that Gardiner used race as a determining factor in selecting employees, allegedly once saying 'We aren't hiring her. We aren't hiring a black girl.'"

Where is the sourcing here? The first part of the sentence uses passive language -- "It was also claimed" -- which is awful, cowardly writing that presents a horrible accusation about a real person without explaining where it came from or why the author believes it's true. Earlier in the graf the author cites someone named CS1 -- I guess codenames are fun -- which could imply that the accusation came from them, but that's thin sourcing by any definition of the word, and no responsible reporter would ever allege that someone said something this horrible with such flimsy evidence backing them up.

At least it was sourced. I've seen stuff up on kotaku that was just unsubstantiated rumor not even fit to print.

I respect you as a journalist, but please don't act so surprised when the very site you write for has many many many egregious issues.

Feel free to continue this in PM if you'd like (unless youre scared I might be a goober globber or something)

 

[Jeremy]

I can't believe people are talking about Derek Smart in 2015.

He got exactly what he wanted. This was the goal.

 

[Raticus79]

"Chris Roberts Disputes Veracity Of New Inflammatory Star Citizen Allegations"
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...ew-inflammatory-star-citizen-allegations.aspx

 

[Sinatar]

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

Chris Roberts has already responded and the article will be updated in the near future. Here's the link for everybody who's interested, it probably belongs in the OP as well.

Chris Roberts put more effort into investigating the intent behind this article then the author put into their hatchet piece.

The Escapist is trash.

 

[Fafalada]

How reliable is Glassdoor though?

Negative reviews tend to emphasize the negativity (think of talking about an ex after a break-up) but that doesn't mean they are untrue.
Personally I've seen studios get very accurate reviews on it, but that's just places I am personally familiar with - so obviously anecdotal in the big picture. Of course - if you're talking about AAA scale projects (which SC is, crowd-funding or not), you can say "it's been mismanaged" and be right at least 90% of the time.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

okay, Derek Smart sounds like a bitter sad sociopath.

everything Chris writes sounds logical, then you visit Derek's blog - yeah Derek's a sad human being.

I haven't followed this whole episode too closely, but after reading up on Derek Smart recently the guy genuinely sounds like he has mental health issues.

 

[LastOne2100]

Yeah - I think this reflects badly on The Escapist more than anyone else. Although Chris Robert's response was pretty...cringeworthy.

Everyone is scared about this project. It's a huge amount of money and definitely overly ambitious. I'm not sure why this continues to be news. Plenty of AAA games with established publishers fail as well - and this is definitely riskier, which we all knew from the get go. Will I be surprised if Star Citizen fails? Of course not. But it wouldn't have any chance of being made if people like me didn't back it. That's what crowd funding is. taking a risk to get something that couldn't be made without the risk made. It's not a guarantee of success.

I mean clearly CIG and Chris Roberts were willing to provide a response. Why was there some amazing rush to publish this article without giving them an opportunity to respond? The whole article just reeks of irresponsible journalism - which is exactly what we get from a significant amount of gaming "media" where their interests are a far cry away from providing accurate newsworthy information to gamers. I could line up ex-employees of any company happy to spout a bunch of untrue bile behind the veil of secrecy. This kind of stuff needs to be fact checked. This is the stuff libel lawsuits are made of.

I can see the headlines on CNN now "Disgruntled ex-employee of Apple fired for stealing discusses the state of the racist sexist company". *rolls eyes*

 

[Sijil]

What sort of disgusting bile is this? Escapist is no longer in welcome in my browser. Can't believe this is what passes for journalism these days, British tabloids do a better job.

This is how you do a proper investigative journalism in the video gaming industry.

http://www.pcgamer.com/hacks-an-inv...llion-dollar-business-of-video-game-cheating/

Not rely on half assed interviews with no credible impartial sources.

 

[Outrun]

The best way to counter all of this crap is to release the game.

When is SQ42 coming?

 

[Danthrax]

I can't believe people are talking about Derek Smart in 2015.

All according to his keikaku. Star Citizen attacks are just the tool with which he accomplishes it.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

So why is it for you guys? Do you really want to give a platform to Derek Smart? This is the same person who wrote a letter to Origin and me after Wing Commander was out claiming that we were infringing on his game and we had to cease publishing it or he would sue us. We told him we never heard of him and good luck with that. He never sued. His game was, of course, the now infamous Battlecruiser 3000AD that would take many more years to come out (I think I shipped four Wing Commanders before his game came out).

I wonder if Derek Smart has been attacking Roberts recently because he could never let go.

 

[Jinkies]

The best way to counter all of this crap is to release the game.

When is SQ42 coming?

In addition to new details and perhaps footage, CIG is expected to announce an updated release window at CitizenCon on Oct 10 (1pm EST).

 

[Sijil]

An interesting response from a backer turned employee.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/287233/from-backer-to-employee-at-cig#latest

 

[Lork]

And I completely believe that. Here's something I want to clarify. I honestly think you are one of the better reporters in the business. And definitely the best at Kotaku. But you work in an industry absolutely brimming with immature, unprofessional hacks whose business model encourages, even demands, quantity over quality and controversy over subject. And even you, one of the top reporters in this industry, have done some pretty unprofessional bullshit in the past.

So, to act 'shocked' that someone would post crap like this is disingenuous at best because this is just par for the course from games journalism.

Is this par for the course? It seems like it's on a whole other level from the usual to me. There's rushing to post unsubstantiated rumors, and then there's this - an honest to god hit piece, complete with multiple outrageously damning but unsubstantiated accusations. Do you have an example of something comparable?

 

[KKRT00]

perhaps footage, CIG is expected to announce an updated release window at CitizenCon on Oct 10 (1pm EST).

Footage of Squadron 42 is confirmed for CitizenCon.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Wow that article is quite something. Wow. Wow.

 

[dLMN8R]

The Escapist has been a mouthpiece for GamerGate since it started last year.

I have no idea what the actual status of Star Citizen is, but I sure as fuck would never believe anything about it that The Escapist publishes.

Their GamerGate support is alone enough. But the blatant inaccuracies in their piece as described by Chris Roberts (objective factual stuff that can be easily verified, not internal politics and opinions) just seal the deal. Their journalistic practices just make it worse.


And now The Escapist is just a mouthpiece for Derek Smart? Pathetic.

 

[Jinkies]

Footage of Squadron 42 is confirmed for CitizenCon.

I thought so, but wasn't sure, thanks.

The inclusion of SP campaign is what pushed me to become a backer, so I'm really excited for that.

 

[notworksafe]

awful, cowardly writing that presents a horrible accusation about a real person without explaining where it came from or why the author believes it's true.

uh huh

 

[Maledict]

An interesting response from a backer turned employee.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/287233/from-backer-to-employee-at-cig#latest

Sorry but im not sure how helpful this is... ;-)

Someone who fell for the game immediately on announcement, backed it with a large amount of money, then got a job working for the company in customer services posts about how ace and fab everything is?

Regardless of how utterly trashy Escapists article is, you're literally quoting the last man alive on earth aside from Chris Roberts who would possibly say anything at all bad about the game. If he was saying something different then it might be interesting, but it's hardly a counterpoint given its even posted on their own forums...

 

[Machina]

That correlation is horrrrible.

 

[aliengmr]

I wonder if Derek Smart has been attacking Roberts recently because he could never let go.

Derek Smart is jealous and trying to sell his own failure of a game. Its wasn't working so he tries to sue and when that failed he started getting involved with GG. Derek's mad and throwing an epic temper tantrum.

 

[Raticus79]

An interesting response from a backer turned employee.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/287233/from-backer-to-employee-at-cig#latest

Here's another personal statement by an employee:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n59ft/working_at_cig_from_a_cig_employee/

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Yeah, we've been hearing from and talking to various current and former employees at CIG for a while now. I've spent a ton of time editing and working with others on the team and we've published a couple of things so far. Part of our job is to determine what's relevant, concrete information that's actually worth reporting and what's just gossip from employees who are angry for one reason or another.

FWIW, this is one of the most disgusting pieces of reporting I've ever seen, and I'm legit shocked that any professional website would publish something like "It was also claimed that Gardiner used race as a determining factor in selecting employees, allegedly once saying 'We aren't hiring her. We aren't hiring a black girl'" without crystal-clear sourcing and evidence (and without giving the person in question a chance to defend herself).

What's really ironic is that the Escapist article's author is a huge figure of GamerGate, a movement about ethics in journalism.

Nice...

If bosses are rolling around every AAA dev process calling people faggots and saying "We aren't hiring a black girl," then surely it's still a problem?

Heh...
HAHAHA!
You believe Derek Smart.

 

[tuxfool]

They need to hire someone, like Patrice Desilets, who can execute a polished plan to getting a game out in a short time. I remember hearing stories about how he was able to bring Prince of Persia Sands of Time out with 6 months development.

Patrice is a creative. Not a Producer. It is a producer's job to do the scheduling. So unless he was the producer on that game it is unlikely you can attribute that only to him.

 

[WGMBY]

What sort of disgusting bile is this? Escapist is no longer in welcome in my browser. Can't believe this is what passes for journalism these days, British tabloids do a better job.

I used to just go there for the comics and Zero Punctuation, but now I'll just skip them entirely

 

[MrJoobJoob]

uh huh

Making a flippant joke about someone's maturity and legitimately suggesting someone is both racist and uses homophobic slurs are two very different things.

 

[dLMN8R]

Might I suggest an alternate title?

Derek Smart tricks GamerGate supporter into writing bullshit about Star Citizen

 

[Anton Sugar]

Yep I am with you. I would not be surprised to learn that Derrick Smart wrote half of those emails. I'm sure everything is not perfect at Star Citizen, and I'm sure that whatever dates they are currently targeting the full game to be launched will be delayed. There will also be a ton of stuff they have in the design docs that will either be toned down or cut altogether. A lot of this stuff just sounds like BS though.

Legendary.

Some of this really does seem to be Derek Smart's doing, almost down to the wording. Roberts sounds frustrated.

Well, I think the interesting thing is that The Escapist differentiates between anonymous sources (2 of them) and those that "identified" themselves but chose to remain anonymous (7 employees, supposedly).

I think the ball is in The Escapist's court now. Anonymous sources trash-talking SC is non-news, but actual verifiable current or ex employees? That's a different story. Now, if we're saying this is just Derek Smart, we're implying that he grabbed the names (at least, if not created different email addresses) of current and former employees and provided false information/allegations.

I have no idea who is telling the truth, but I reeeeally hope this is pursued. I mean, if charges are pursued, this could get very interesting for all parties involved.

 

[ScatheZombie]

Is this par for the course? It seems like it's on a whole other level from the usual to me. There's rushing to post unsubstantiated rumors, and then there's this - an honest to god hit piece, complete with multiple outrageously damning but unsubstantiated accusations. Do you have an example of something comparable?

Here you go. And I don't even like that asshole. Granted, half the accusations in there are clearly true. But the other half are basically "He's associated with people I don't like/have done stupid shit."

And that's from a developer.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

Might I suggest an alternate title?

Derek Smart tricks GamerGate supporter into writing bullshit about Star Citizen

Sounds more accurate, and it also sounds kinda snappy. I like it.

Seems like Dick Smart is actually getting a bit into CR's head, that silly goblin.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

No, he says that about the reporter/writer (who herself is a Gamer Gate supporter). Yeah it's weird how the Gamer Gate involved here but the Escapist is pro GG and the writer herself as well.

Any ways, there is a lot worrying about Star Citizen but that article is shameful, a lot of allegations with zero to back it up. CR's response is also pathetic to quite an extent with Derek Smart. CR does raise some very damning and valid shady shit about escapist and the article (and the writer). Terrible article, massive allegations with only anonymous sources backing it - you can't make such allegations with anonymous sources, it is atrocious reporting.

Also I can't understand what Derek Smart and others have with "proving" that Sandi and Chris are married? What the shit does that have to do with anyone, that's personal wtf.

I see. Invoking GG is a dumb idea either way. It's basically a modern day Godwin's law.

I stand by my previous statement that this is just two trolls who haven't shipped a game in a combined 30 years trying to out troll each other.

 

[Outrun]

In addition to new details and perhaps footage, CIG is expected to announce an updated release window at CitizenCon on Oct 10 (1pm EST).

Awesome.

My X52 Pro is ready.

 

[MrJoobJoob]

Here you go. And I don't even like that asshole. Granted, half the accusations in there are clearly true. But the other half are basically "He's associated with people I don't like/have done stupid shit."

That's just a blog post though, and the author is basically saying he doesn't like TotalBiscuit. The Escapist is using the flimsiest of sources to say that Chris Roberts' wife uses homophobic and ableist slurs, and racially discriminates in hiring employees.