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eSports and the Fighting Game Community

Master Milk said:
That goes against the basic premise of the post he was responding to. You can't play full time and make a living from it, but not quit your job.
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I'm just talking about MLG picking it up. I should have clarified, sorry. Whether they turn it into a full time job or not, more money would be injected. They would be making more money regardless.


@Margalis, seems you're ignorant about MLG and leagues as well. It seems like you got all of your information from Tom Cannon's article. The Dead or Alive thing was a 1 time thing from idiots. Everyone has said that the tournament itself was a mess for everyone and not just the fgc. Also, MLG hires community members in order to run their stream. This happened to Tekken when they hired Seb, Rip, and several community members writing articles, and going to the forums looking for feedback.

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=117502
 
MLG and other pro e-sports groups are clueless morons when it comes to fighting games.

Fighting game players pride themselves on knowing their shit and being real, meanwhile e-sports groups are herp-derping with Dead or Alive tournaments. It's like your drooling inbred cousin hosting a Chess tournament but showing up with Connect 4.

People need to understand the history of the fighting game scene. I remember going to B2, going upstairs to the MIT convenience store and buying some duct tape so we could set up some camcorders to videotape the arcade screens and later send out VHS tapes. We're talking people who have a real love for the game and scene. That's not particularly compatible with clueless money grubbers who can't do fireball motions.

If e-sports wants fighting games they should first and foremost get educated and show some real knowledge and interest of fighting games. Otherwise it comes off very badly as clueless dopes who choose games based on Gamestop sales figures. You probably wouldn't take an alternate football league seriously if the owners thought football was played with Badminton gear. That's where e-sports is now with fighting games.

This is a classic case of people on the outside just not getting it at all.
 
kr2t0s said:
And how is this a good thing for the players involved?

Let's say $ does start coming in and lets say Justin Wong is one of them. He quits his job and becomes a fighting game pro. What's he realistically going to make a year? Let's be generous and say $40k a year.

Then after a few years he breaks his arm (could happen!). Does he have health insurance? Lets say mvc4 comes out and he straight up doesn't like it? Or what happens when little Noah is 15 years younger than him and has better reactions?

So now Justin is 30-35 and no longer able to win and now can't find a real job cause the only experience he has is dragon punching people?

This is why esports is a scam and takes advantage of young people.

The only people truly benefitting are the sundances, not the players.

The FGC is better off without MLG.
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It's a good thing if that's what he wants to do. And if not, that's fine, and someone else will step up.

Everyone in the SC2 scene understands that it's not going to be fame and fortune for most if not all of the people who try to go pro. You try for a period of time, and if you don't make any waves in the circuit you move on. The people who do make it, they have fans cheering them on, sponsorships, some decent prize money, and most importantly lasting accomplishments that they can take with them when they move on to dull everyday life when they've had their fill.

Carries over to regular professional sports as well. In MMA you need to train for years before you're good enough to go pro, and you oftentimes lose money doing your low level pro fights, since insurance and travel fees often aren't covered and the payout is laughable. MMA guys make huge sacrifices of time and effort and put their bodies on the line, and only a very few of them make the sort of paydays that set them up for life or even to the point where they can provide a reasonable scenario for their families, while the big evil UFC rakes in the profits. Is MMA a scam? Nope.
 
KidA Seven said:
And the rest of ESports does not look down on the fighting game community.
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They definetely do look down on the FGC. Even if they don't look down on the FGC now, they will sooner or later if the FGC joins the MLG. Sundances himself insulted the fighting game fans who attended the joint EVO/MLG in 2005. There's just too big a difference in the culture of the FGC from conventional ESports, what that the fighting game fans call hype is what the outsiders call a bunch of gangster wannabe being rowdy. For that reason the FGC can never coexist with the other ESports fans, if they get married a divorce would be inevitable.
 
scytheavatar said:
They definetely do look down on the FGC. Even if they don't look down on the FGC now, they will sooner or later if the FGC joins the MLG. Sundances himself insulted the fighting game fans who attended the joint EVO/MLG in 2005.
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Sundance said the Evo crowd boo'd MLG staff at the event. Pretty disrespectful.
 
scytheavatar said:
They definetely do look down on the FGC. Even if they don't look down on the FGC now, they will sooner or later if the FGC joins the MLG. Sundances himself insulted the fighting game fans who attended the joint EVO/MLG in 2005. There's just too big a difference in the culture of the FGC from conventional ESports, what that the fighting game fans call hype is what the outsiders call a bunch of gangster wannabe being rowdy. For that reason the FGC can never coexist with the other ESports fans, if they get married a divorce would be inevitable.
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So something said 6 years ago should forever affect the relationship between the FGC and the larger Esports community?

If nothing else, look at this way. The Esports "crowd" is very much not set in stone new to the growth and popularity of newer games like League of Legends and Starcraft 2 bringing in new viewers. If anything now is a pretty good chance to try to grow with these other games as opposed to going it alone as the FGC has in the past.

I'm not saying it'll definitely work or anything, but I think that the possibility for a mutually beneficial relationship might exist.
 
You know one thing i don't get is why the FGC feels Evo won't take the same route when it comes to losing it's "identity". Evo this year was big and it was also more professional and a lot more toned down(Which I like). If Evo continues to grow and the fighting game community continues to grow even without the rest of eSports(MLG) in the picture won't there still be a level of selling out which seems to be what the FGC is so worried about?
 
The Xtortionist said:
Sundance said the Evo crowd boo'd MLG staff at the event. Pretty disrespectful.
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Context context context:
Tom Cannon said:
Also in 2005, MLG collaborated with Evo for a joint event in Las Vegas. MLG held tournaments for Halo and Smash Bros. Evo held tournaments for SSF2T, SF3 Third Strike, MvC2, CvS2, GGXX, Tekken 5, and TTT. Evo attendees outnumbered MLG attendees by more than 4 to 1, but Evo was only allocated 1/4th of the total floor space, resulting in lots of cramped players and hard feelings. We were literally shoved into the corner of an otherwise all-MLG event. In retaliation, Evo attendees booed the Halo finalists (an act which we condemned publicly on the spot, by the way). MLG disengaged with the FGC utterly until 2010.
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Does that mean that they weren't being really disrespectful or excuse their behavior? Hell no. But understanding the context is important.
 
scytheavatar said:
They definetely do look down on the FGC. Even if they don't look down on the FGC now, they will sooner or later if the FGC joins the MLG. Sundances himself insulted the fighting game fans who attended the joint EVO/MLG in 2005. There's just too big a difference in the culture of the FGC from conventional ESports, what that the fighting game fans call hype is what the outsiders call a bunch of gangster wannabe being rowdy. For that reason the FGC can never coexist with the other ESports fans, if they get married a divorce would be inevitable.
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Oh come on. I'm part of both the FGC and MLG community. There are tons of people like me. Not sure why they can't coexist. The Halo community back then was immature, especially because most players were younger. Everyone has grown up, and the average age is about age 21 now where as it was 17 back then. The Halo community has opened up to the Starcraft community. I'm sure the same will happen.

El Sloth, I think there was a misunderstanding regarding that event. Halo was their big draw and I'm sure they didn't expect fgc community to outnumber them like that. They don't change things on the fly, so that's probably why they didn't give EVO the biggest stage. They usually take past event experience and plan accordingly for the next event. That's why Starcraft had a smaller stage, but then switched the next event and now they have a huge stage. Either way, that was a while back and both communities can learn from the experience.

Edit: And to be honest, MLG should have known the FGC would outnumber them. Halo usually doesn't do as well on the west coast, where as the fgc is huge on the west coast. One of the reasons why Anaheim usually fails up until this year where Starcraft provided a crap load of spectators.
 
scytheavatar said:
They definetely do look down on the FGC. Even if they don't look down on the FGC now, they will sooner or later if the FGC joins the MLG. Sundances himself insulted the fighting game fans who attended the joint EVO/MLG in 2005. There's just too big a difference in the culture of the FGC from conventional ESports, what that the fighting game fans call hype is what the outsiders call a bunch of gangster wannabe being rowdy. For that reason the FGC can never coexist with the other ESports fans, if they get married a divorce would be inevitable.
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The difference between the FGC now and 6 years ago is like night and day. Seriously.
 
KidA Seven said:
El Sloth, I think there was a misunderstanding regarding that event. Halo was their big draw and I'm sure they didn't expect fgc community to outnumber them like that. They don't change things on the fly, so that's probably why they didn't give EVO the biggest stage. They usually take past event experience and plan accordingly for the next event. That's why Starcraft had a smaller stage, but then switched the next event and now they have a huge stage. Either way, that was a while back and both communities can learn from the experience.
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The Xtortionist said:
Sounds like poor planning, but idk if they could have done it another way
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I'm not trying to vilify MLG or take 'sides' in any way, just trying to provide context as to why the EVO attendees were booing. I'm sure people weren't really thinking about any of what you said when they got there and saw they had been regulated to a smaller corner and were, understandably, a bit upset.
The Xtortionist said:
Halo just takes up a lot of space, and FGs don't.
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How so? I've never been to a major myself so I wouldn't know.
 
El Sloth said:
How so? I've never been to a major myself so I wouldn't know.
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Halo is 4v4 and thus requires bigger stations that hold multiple TVs and consoles(4 TVs for early rounds because 2-player splitscreen is used, and 8 TVs for later rounds where there is no splitscreen, IIRC). I believe MLG ran Halo FFA in 2004 also, which was something like 6-8 players with no splitscreen. A given FG match can be played on one TV with one console.
 
Margalis said:
MLG and other pro e-sports groups are clueless morons when it comes to fighting games.
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This type of tribal, quasi-paranoid thinking seems very common in the fighting game community. Strange.

Take MLG. They had never touched starcraft 2, their people in charge probably had never heard of it. A community rallied around it (mostly an already existing scene), MLG noticed, and now it's the biggest crowdpleaser. Both MLG and the starcraft scene have benefited tremendously. They didn't let some silly preconceptions stand in their way.

Not to shell too much for MLG, one impressive thing about them is how they listen to community and make the requested changes.
 
I think a good way to try and foster for this are not just FGC people going to MLG events, but MLG guys going to SCR or Final Round, or Seasons Beatings, so they can get a feel and feedback first hand about how the FGC works instead of trying to get them on and do a complete mess the first time which leaves the FGC too pissed off to give them another shot.
 
perryfarrell said:
This type of tribal, quasi-paranoid thinking seems very common in the fighting game community. Strange.
...
Not to shell too much for MLG, one impressive thing about them is how they listen to community and make the requested changes.
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It's not tribal or paranoid, it's factual. And it's not a preconception, it's based on history. E-sports leagues have a poor record with fighting games by no fault but their own. The history is one blunder after another.
 
perryfarrell said:
This type of tribal, quasi-paranoid thinking seems very common in the fighting game community. Strange.

Take MLG. They had never touched starcraft 2, their people in charge probably had never heard of it. A community rallied around it (mostly an already existing scene), MLG noticed, and now it's the biggest crowdpleaser. Both MLG and the starcraft scene have benefited tremendously. They didn't let some silly preconceptions stand in their way.

Not to shell too much for MLG, one impressive thing about them is how they listen to community and make the requested changes.
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SC2 and FGs are absolutely nothing alike. One can be enjoyed and followed by pretty much anyone as long as they have eyes. The other requires knowledge of the game (or at least fighters in general) for the fast action on the screen to look like anything more than two dudes button mashing.

SC2 is much slower than a game like UMVC3 (or even SF4) which makes it a lot easier to commentate on and easier for people to get into.
 
Margalis said:
The people involved in Evo now are the same people that have been involved from the days of IRC and 50 man tournaments.
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MLG is the same way. They started off with people bringing their xboxs and tvs to host tournaments. They eventually became big. They weren't some rich company from the start like some people think.

picture as an example:

SBPHILLY.JPG
 
If MLG and "Esports" can keep the FGC exactly how it is now except just adding more tournaments and gaining more public traction, sponsors, and larger pots than go for it. If they want to change anything about the personality of the community, they can take it all back. Some streams should have the PG commentary and removed golfclap audience that I've seen at those tournaments, but do I as a stream monster want to pay my 8.95 to see that? Nah. As long as the players still hit up locals and majors that do things the fun way in addition to kneeling at the money idol in the MLG shrine, who cares?
 
perfectnight said:
SC2 and FGs are absolutely nothing alike. One can be enjoyed and followed by pretty much anyone as long as they have eyes. The other requires knowledge of the game (or at least fighters in general) for the fast action on the screen to look like anything more than two dudes button mashing.

SC2 is much slower than a game like UMVC3 (or even SF4) which makes it a lot easier to commentate on and easier for people to get into.
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I think it's the opposite, I think fighters are easier for people to follow. They see 2 characters who are always on screen at the same time and they're trying to kill each other. SC2 you have different view points and the players constantly moving around the map to do different things. It may be easier for the commentators, but I wouldn't say it's easier for the viewers, in fact I'd say it's more complicated as they try to learn about all the different things the players are trying to do as oppose to the FG players trying to play offense, defense, mind games, guessing games and so on. Even if they're throwing fireballs or just doing a jump kick people can always apply that to real fighting, "oh he's backing off now because he's hurt" or "he noticed how that guy kept doing a certain thing when he did this, now he finally baited it".
 
perfectnight said:
SC2 and FGs are absolutely nothing alike. One can be enjoyed and followed by pretty much anyone as long as they have eyes. The other requires knowledge of the game (or at least fighters in general) for the fast action on the screen to look like anything more than two dudes button mashing.

SC2 is much slower than a game like UMVC3 (or even SF4) which makes it a lot easier to commentate on and easier for people to get into.
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I swear you were describing fighting games with the bolded.

Honestly, it's the opposite. People don't know what the fuck is going on in RTS games. In fighting games, it ultimately comes down to guys on the screen punching eachother and life bars being depleted. If you don't understand what's going on while watching SFIV... yeah.

Although it definitely is a lot easier to commentate RTS games. It's not even close. That's how all the crazy FGC terminology was created in the first place, the commentators couldn't describe the action fast enough (for marvel at least, SFIV isn't too bad), so they condensed sentences into words (pringles, r kelly, happy birthday etc.)
 
Rice-Eater said:
I think it's the opposite, I think fighters are easier for people to follow. They see 2 characters who are always on screen at the same time and they're trying to kill each other. SC2 you have different view points and the players constantly moving around the map to do different things. It may be easier for the commentators, but I wouldn't say it's easier for the viewers, in fact I'd say it's more complicated as they try to learn about all the different things the players are trying to do as oppose to the FG players trying to play offense, defense, mind games, guessing games and so on. Even if they're throwing fireballs or just doing a jump kick people can always apply that to real fighting, "oh he's backing off now because he's hurt" or "he noticed how that guy kept doing a certain thing when he did this, now he finally baited it".
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I think the fact that SC2 is so easy to commentate makes it easier to watch. Commentators have a lot of time to explain why a player is doing X and why doing so would be a good/bad move. Sure you can follow the basic idea of whats going on in a fighting game, but pretty much every non-FG player I've shown a stream to usually gets bored after a couple of matches because they don't really know any of the deeper mind games going on between the players (which is what makes it exciting, for me at least). Every time the plasma chucking starts or when a super exciting character like Guile or E.Honda comes on screen that's pretty much instant turn off for a lot of people.

I think for people to really appreciate a FG tourney they have to at least have some understanding of how things work whereas in SC2 you really don't because the commentators are able to explain a lot of things that people might miss and the game is slower paced which gives time to think about what's going on.
 
Margalis said:
MLG and other pro e-sports groups are clueless morons when it comes to fighting games.

Fighting game players pride themselves on knowing their shit and being real, meanwhile e-sports groups are herp-derping with Dead or Alive tournaments. It's like your drooling inbred cousin hosting a Chess tournament but showing up with Connect 4.

People need to understand the history of the fighting game scene. I remember going to B2, going upstairs to the MIT convenience store and buying some duct tape so we could set up some camcorders to videotape the arcade screens and later send out VHS tapes. We're talking people who have a real love for the game and scene. That's not particularly compatible with clueless money grubbers who can't do fireball motions.

If e-sports wants fighting games they should first and foremost get educated and show some real knowledge and interest of fighting games. Otherwise it comes off very badly as clueless dopes who choose games based on Gamestop sales figures. You probably wouldn't take an alternate football league seriously if the owners thought football was played with Badminton gear. That's where e-sports is now with fighting games.

This is a classic case of people on the outside just not getting it at all.
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Yeah man, I learnt my SFII on the streets. We played to survive. Nowadays it's all corporate bullshit and getting sponsored. I'm not your stooge and I play for my own reasons.
 
Rice-Eater said:
I think it's the opposite, I think fighters are easier for people to follow. They see 2 characters who are always on screen at the same time and they're trying to kill each other. SC2 you have different view points and the players constantly moving around the map to do different things. It may be easier for the commentators, but I wouldn't say it's easier for the viewers, in fact I'd say it's more complicated as they try to learn about all the different things the players are trying to do as oppose to the FG players trying to play offense, defense, mind games, guessing games and so on. Even if they're throwing fireballs or just doing a jump kick people can always apply that to real fighting, "oh he's backing off now because he's hurt" or "he noticed how that guy kept doing a certain thing when he did this, now he finally baited it".
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I think in this case it's the SC2 commentators making it an easier viewing experience for the viewers, especially when it comes to explaining the nuances of the game like timing pushes and stuff. SC2 Commentary does have more time to talk about those things though, especially in beginning portions of the game (during the build up period), periods after battles, and during a significant event such as a drop.

Long story short, SC2 Commentary makes a relatively noob friendly experience. (IMO)

FG Commentary has to go so fast, and with all the terms that the person needs to know it's gets too crazy if you don't know it. Sure the premise is easier, but the commentary is so much harder to execute when directed to general gaming crowd.

EDIT ADDED: Bah, late to the party as usual... ::goes to corner and cries::
 
Margalis said:
The people involved in Evo now are the same people that have been involved from the days of IRC and 50 man tournaments.
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I'm not sure what the FGC thinks MLG will do that it wouldn't have to do to itself in order to get huge. Things change at that level. More money means more corporate sponsorships which means more professionalism. We already seen that happening with ESPN Yipes. It's inevitable for growth.
 
The bs and rhetoric of the isolationist sub-community of the FGC (cough Shoryuken) and MLG crew is outstanding.

Love both, hate hate the other, eitherway the ignorant BS on both sides needs to stop.
 
I wish the word "esports" would get brutally murdered in a dark alleyway by a bum with a rusty bed spring. It's like Vince McMahon trying to call wrestling "sports entertainment."
 
^ MLG actually doesn't use the word esports on their logo or mission statement prominently. 'Competitive gaming' is more common--a better term imo.

But lately the e-word has been used ironically a bunch when it's said that something is 'killing esports'
 
awwyeahgurrl said:
How far back does everyone's esports history go? Just curious to see who started with SC2 and who remembers events way back like Red Annihilation and who knows names like Thresh. Seems to me that people who have started out with SC2 or started to follow along around that time have a pretty rosey outlook on esports as a whole where as if you look back through esports history you'll see it's not all rainbows and happiness. That's not to say I have a negative view of esports but I'm certainly hesitant to think that it'll help the FGC expand greatly without there being a huge impact.
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I'd still love to know this. Who here has experience with competitive gaming events at least pre 2006? I don't want to know to try and use it against anyone I just want to see where everyones love/hate of "esports" comes from. Did you start with FG's, did you start with quake, counter-strike, did you start with events like CPL, WSVG, ESWC, WCG, IEM. ESL. explain where most of your experience came from.

For example, I started following competitive gaming around 2002 with counter-strike and quake just reading about results and seeing pictures of the events and thinking, HOOLLLYYY SHIT PLAY VIDEOGAMES AND GET PAID YEEEEAAAHHH. From there I started to follow events like CPL, ESWC and went on to admin cups and leagues for ESL and clanbase. After I stopped playing CS and Quake I moved on to a game called Warsow and started trying to help build a community for that with beginner leagues and admining other cups. After the dev team made huge changes to the way it played I stopped playing games competitivly until SF4 came along, I'd always followed the FCG since around evo 2004 but since there's no scene around me I only got my first chance to get into a local community when SF4 came.


Mr Jared said:
It trended :)

Suck it, Golden Girls!
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A bunch of people saying BLAH BLAH #eSports on twitter hardly means anything. #dickwolf trends too.
 
awwyeahgurrl said:
I'd still love to know this. Who here has experience with competitive gaming events at least pre 2006? I don't want to know to try and use it against anyone I just want to see where everyones love/hate of "esports" comes from.
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Been following the FG scene since 2004. Been playing fighters since I was a kid and they are my favorite genre, but never even thought about playing them competitively until a friend took me to a small tournament (like 10 people in all) and showed me how real shit got :)
 
perfectnight said:
Been following the FG scene since 2004. Been playing fighters since I was a kid and they are my favorite genre, but never even thought about playing them competitively until a friend took me to a small tournament (like 10 people in all) and showed me how real shit got :)
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Ok so how do you see things with the FGC and it merging/joining an organization like MLG. Apart from the fact that more money MAY come from it do you see it having more of a detrimental impact over time or do you think it's nothing but good things.

I just want to see where everyone is coming from since everyone seems to be pretty heavily one sided and I can't help but feel that a lot of people on both sides of the fence don't know the history of each other and esports as a whole.

CountAntonius said:
Started watching around 2000 CPL Sk/NiP/Fatal1ty days. CS, Quake 3, Painkiller, UT.
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So what's your experience with the FGC. Positive? Negative?
 
I just see MLG as another tournament. That's how the FGC should see it as well. They have events and tournament organizers can plan around them like they would any other major tourney. Why does it seems like if it failed the FGC would be dead or something? It's pretty much self contained and survived a genre drought a decade long. It isn't going anywhere with or without the MLG but why should evo be the only major in town?


awwyeahgurrl said:
So what's your experience with the FGC. Positive? Negative?
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Definitely a positive. Very passionate and involved community always willing to embrace new players. But like any tight knit self made community I feel like they feel threatened by the eSports scene as a whole and are afraid it will change what they love about their community. Which is understandable. My line of thinking though is if they want the scene to grow it will change regardless even if it's Evo at the helm.
 
Anth0ny said:
I swear you were describing fighting games with the bolded.

Honestly, it's the opposite. People don't know what the fuck is going on in RTS games. In fighting games, it ultimately comes down to guys on the screen punching eachother and life bars being depleted. If you don't understand what's going on while watching SFIV... yeah.

Although it definitely is a lot easier to commentate RTS games. It's not even close. That's how all the crazy FGC terminology was created in the first place, the commentators couldn't describe the action fast enough (for marvel at least, SFIV isn't too bad), so they condensed sentences into words (pringles, r kelly, happy birthday etc.)
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Yeah and in an RTS it's pretty easy to understand one set of units killing another set of units. Both types of game become much more enjoyable once you understand what's going on.
 
CountAntonius said:
I just see MLG as another tournament. That's how the FGC should see it as well. They have events and tournament organizers can plan around them like they would any other major tourney. Why does it seems like if it failed the FGC would be dead or something? It's pretty much self contained and survived a genre drought a decade long. It isn't going anywhere with or without the MLG but why should evo be the only major in town?
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That's my feelings to, the FGC would continue putting on there own events and MLG or whoever can add the game to there line up and people can participate in that to. Hopefully they don't overlap with major FGC tournaments like Final Round or Season's Beatings. And I guess that's where the fear comes from. Major tournaments that can normally bring 200+ players to the top game of the event still can't compete with MLG's 5-10k guaranteed pot for SF4(if it were to happen). And the community doesn't want to see itself divided. But does it really have to be seen that way?

I grew up with SF2 but I'm not a OG in the community, I'm a 09'er and I don't understand the mentality that we must always be together all the time. Meaning if a TO who runs a major picked this date, then no other TO also running a major can pick that date even if they're on the opposite side of the country, which happened with CEO 2011 and Revelations. Can't separate groups just have there own major tournaments and those who can make it to one or the other just do so?
 
Ftg tournament streams are probably the most entertaining ones to watch if you ignore the games themselves, I like to tune in even if I don't care for the games (99% of streams since I don't like SF4 or MvC3) they're playing because the commentators, players and spectators make it fun.
 
awwyeahgurrl said:
Ok so how do you see things with the FGC and it merging/joining an organization like MLG. Apart from the fact that more money MAY come from it do you see it having more of a detrimental impact over time or do you think it's nothing but good things.

I just want to see where everyone is coming from since everyone seems to be pretty heavily one sided and I can't help but feel that a lot of people on both sides of the fence don't know the history of each other and esports as a whole.
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I'm not too sure about it because if the FGC comes to depend solely on sponsors and organizations, what happens if they decide to drop it? I can only talk for myself because it would be selfish to try to speak for the people who have been in it since I was a little kid in diapers, the people who practice 10 hours a day and who travel all over the country to support the community. Not going to sit here and try to tell them what to do and why this or that would be best.
 
perfectnight said:
I'm not too sure about it because if the FGC comes to depend solely on sponsors and organizations, what happens if they decide to drop it? I can only talk for myself because it would be selfish to try to speak for the people who have been in it since I was a little kid in diapers, the people who practice 10 hours a day and who travel all over the country to support the community. Not going to sit here and try to tell them what to do and why this or that would be best.
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This is one of my fears too and I've seen it happen all to much in the past but the way I see it is, as long as people don't completely rely on MLG for financial and tournament support there's a strong backbone of a community to fall back on. Sure that means you're going to possibly lose some of the viewers and casual playerbase that comes along with being on the MLG circuit but it doesn't mean things are completely dead.

I personally don't think the FGC absolutely needs MLG but it wouldn't hurt to try things out and see how it goes. As much as people like Jared want to make it seem like things will be sunshine and happiness for the future of fighting games with MLG on board I think there's a lot more potential problems than benefits.
 
Honestly, I feel this discussion only started because of the rampant success of SC2 as an esport.

Do your own thing guys. If you grow big, it happens naturally. Also keep in mind that like Quake 3 you will never be truly mainstream. Fighting games don't work as a broad spectator sport, it's impossible to comment on them in a way a non-player can understand anything from it. Fuck, outside of SuperTurbo even I can't really watch a lot else since it's the only game I have played extensively. I know hwo every single poke feels, how everything flows together. But to an outsider, what do I say? "Do you see that spacing action, those mind games?" It's an insider thing.

Also, I agree on the notion of "fear of division". Starcraft 2 isn't MLG, MLG just became the most widely known tournament in the west for it. But then again, we got the IGN-ProLeague cups which are also awesome. And NASL is also trying to get it's share. And nobody fears for division.

The fact that people seem to hope for anything from MLG is worrying, as if it's their last chance before obscurity. Keep calm.
 
CountAntonius said:
I just see MLG as another tournament. That's how the FGC should see it as well. They have events and tournament organizers can plan around them like they would any other major tourney. Why does it seems like if it failed the FGC would be dead or something? It's pretty much self contained and survived a genre drought a decade long. It isn't going anywhere with or without the MLG but why should evo be the only major in town?
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It isn't just another tournament. It's a league that runs on vastly different rules from how the FCG rules their tournament. They are expecting the FGC to suck it up and accept how they run the whole thing. Inkblot has made it clear that the FGC run under the arcade spirit that any Tom Dick and Harry can just come to challenge a top player and potentially ruin their shot at the prize money. Which is something that isn't acceptable to the MLG. Also EVO wouldn't be affected if MLG picks up fighting game, but your Season's Beatings, NEC, SCR, FR etc will be affected greatly because the people in MLG are a bunch of bastards when it comes to scheduling the events.
 
Lost Fragment said:
SF4 is a revolutionary game that breathed some much-needed life in the FGC, but that game is getting old. It's too late for that game to be the standard-bearer for fighting games. UMVC3 won't do it, either. That game is new and fun, but too random to be taken that seriously as a competitive fighter.
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Is UMVC3 really that scrubby and filled with random comeback possibilities?

I don't know lots of talk about it being more balanced than vanilla.
 
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