I thought he got decently outplayed both before and after. I don't think the controller issue made much of a difference.
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Evolution 2015 IOT2I - The GODS have fallen - Final day July 19th
- Thread starter Kadey
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I thought he got decently outplayed both before and after. I don't think the controller issue made much of a difference.
This is such an awful comparison. First off, icing the kicker only hurts one side. Anyone thinking Gamerbee got put on tilt because of this is delusional if they do not think it tilted Momochi just as much if not more. Momochi is the one who had the lead, had all the momentum, and lost a round because of it.
Second, icing the kicker is always intentional. If you think Momochi intentionally threw a round that he was winning in the grand finals of Evo, well... I do not even know what to say to you at that point.
bodyboarder
Member
Good final. Shame about the stick issue though.
Professor Beef
Banned
I never said it was intentional. But it still happened whether Momochi intended to or not. I strongly believe Gamerbee would've taken that game had the pause not happened.
And for the record, there's no tinfoil hats here. Momochi's stick breaking was a freak accident, nothing more. But that break definitely helped him.
And for the record, there's no tinfoil hats here. Momochi's stick breaking was a freak accident, nothing more. But that break definitely helped him.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
This is killing me hahaha
Idk man, Momochi was up a round when the stick incident happened.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
That pause hurt them both for sure.
RellyRell28
Banned
Plus Momochi had to use an entirely new stick than the one he'd used in every other round of the tournament.
Sure, it took them both out of rhythm or whatever but Gamerbee could have easily lost that round in which the stick malfunctioned anyways given that he was down in life. I just don't see where the "gamerbee got the worse end" crowd is coming from.
Professor Beef
Banned
He was also up an entire game, but Gamerbee caught up. God I wish that stick thing never happened. Would've loved to see that game in its entirety.
i know that, i was referring to those that were essentially calling the finals wack just because the favourites weren't in it.
SmackAttack
Member
I mean... I guess. Whether that was because the "top players" were sleeping on the game and hungry competitors like Kane caught up to them or shit happens... I'm gonna go with "shit happens".
You'd be an idiot to bet on Kane against those guys in tournaments coming up. KBR's team is an auto-loss against Champ's and Chris G's and Justin's tournament record against KBR is like 1251235120-1, in spite of the fact that Hulk/Haggar fulks with point Wolverine.
I'm happy for Kane, but I did feel like this was the lowest level of play in Marvel top-8 since Vanilla.
Professor Beef
Banned
Saying it was the lowest level of play is basically shitting on everyone who made top 8 so you can defend the top players. Justin and co. lost because despite how good they are, they weren't as good as the ones who got top 8 that weekend. That's it.
"God's Beard!"
Member
And yet the latter takes more skill and dedication. Infil is my favorite player and I always put money on him even when I think someone else is stronger.
Counter-picking isn't something you can just do whenever you feel like beating someone. It's evidence of the insane amount of work he puts in.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Part of winning open tournaments isn't just winning against a certain group of players but also winning against the field. It's what makes evo the hardest tournament. The field part of the equation is more significant than any other tournament of the year.
Essentially that was Daigo's problem last year in Ultra. Hell, it was his problem this year. It's reasonable to say Daigo would stand good chance against Momochi and Infiltration, tournament regulars, but he lost to AiAi, who doesn't travel.
If there were a round robin of Fchamp, justin, chris and Kane I wouldn't bet on Kane. You're right about that. But Evo is a different kind of accomplishment.
RockTurtle
Member
i think the difference is that Infiltration has shown he is efficient with multiple characters and can adapt to the situation, showing a varied skill.
wheres as other people only counterpick a specific characters or pick a relatively high tier and don't stray from a set idea.
like, i don't see momochi picking Dan or Hakan to throw off an opponent if his ken isn't working, he will go elena and spam that healing after a c. LK link into a hardknock.
wheres as other people only counterpick a specific characters or pick a relatively high tier and don't stray from a set idea.
like, i don't see momochi picking Dan or Hakan to throw off an opponent if his ken isn't working, he will go elena and spam that healing after a c. LK link into a hardknock.
This is a facile way to look at it.
There were guys in top-8 who are as likely to miss top-8 at your standard major than make it. The teams were goofier, the neutral was worse. Just in general not the clinic that we're used to seeing in Marvel top-8.
There's no question the "Gods" and other top players like Cloud shit the bed and got outplayed this weekend, I just don't that's a big statement about them or the game in general. They were bodying these guys pretty consistently in tournament as early as three weeks ago.
Professor Beef
Banned
I don't get why you're trying to excuse them not making top 8 and shit on the people who did.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Oh, you mean that thing that doesn't exist and there is no evidence of existing yet people believe in anyway?
Takamura-San
Member
To me it is th complete opposite. Infiltration is a SF4 database and I love it. Adapting to a situation is not limited to just your "main" character in my book. If my main cannot beat my opponent's second pick, then I'm not good enough. No matter how much of a counter pick it is.
And I don't understand why you think I'm "excusing away them not making top-8" when I explicitly am not excusing that away.
They lost. They got beaten. Straight up. I just don't think that changes anything. They're still the better players and have a long and recent track record to back that up, and the lack of them allowed a lower calibre of play in top-8 than I would have liked.
Let me ask you a question: You've got a hundred bucks and you have to bet it on Marvel in a long set with KBR versus any of ChrisG, Champ or Justin. Do you take KBR in any of those matches?
Karsticles
Member
Kane actually best JWong at the last tournament they were at together, too. JWong has openly said Kane scares him more than any other player.
KBR deserves his win. He took out ChrisG at the last tournament, too.
KBR is on the level.
It broke when he was one round up and with a slight health lead in the second, I don't know how that helped him. You could tell he was as confused as Gamerbee and it ruined his victory, just look at how he reacted at the end, Momochi gained nothing over the stick malfunction, he lost a round and his victory felt empty.
Infil is great because he uses a lot of characters at high level with his own playstyle, it's too easy to say he just counterpicks. Learning a character requires time and dedication, Justin tried with Rose, PR Rog tried with Evil Ryu, none of them managed to level up those characters. The fact that some players stick with one character is because they probably don't feel confident enough to use their secondaries, so kudos to Infil, Gamerbee and Momochi for their dedication to learn other characters and pick them during decisive moments.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
Professor Beef
Banned
To the first part, this weekend showed that no, they clearly aren't.
The second is irrelevant because there are no long sets in tournaments.
Or Justin will run everybody over with Bipson again. ;P
The last tournament they were together at was Combobreaker IIRC, and Justin beat him clean in Grand Finals.
Unless I'm missing something (and I don't think I have missed a Marvel major the last couple years), the only other time Kane beat him in tournament was the UMVCX tournament over a year ago where Justin wasn't allowed to use his actual team.
I've said twice now that I don't want to take anything away from Kane. He's clearly a top player and you don't beat Justin or win EVO without being a top player, but I don't think I'm out of line to call that top-8 weak.
Just go watch the top-3 from last year and see the insane 70 second neutral games that happened in Champ vs Justin or Champ vs ChrisG. Nothing on that level happened this year.
Again, incredibly facile position.
By that same logic, Mike Ross was better than Daigo at last year's EVO and hundreds of men are better than Mago this year. They did better in a single tournament - that is all.
Karsticles
Member
I keep up on my Marvel. That's why Hulk is so effective. He doesn't give you space. There was no long neutral because Hulk shuts it down.
KBR beat Justin while he used his main team at a recent event. Rather small, not Combo Breaker. I forget what it was called.
I must have missed that. Good for Kane.
Professor Beef
Banned
I'm glad you finally agree with me.
There was solid neutral in this top 8 as well. Watch the Cross vs RF matches or the Cross vs Frutsy matches. And the Apologyman vs RayRay matches as well. Or the Neo vs RayRay Magneto mirror.
The play was top notch by all the players minus the combo drops here and there which even the gods drop in those situations at that stage. You guys have no idea how immaculate someone like Frutsy was playing in some of those matches especially against Cross.... those MODOk fundamentals were ridiculous.
Saying this was the weakest Marvel top 8 since Vanilla is pretty inaccurate. It was much better than 2012 top 8 as well except for a single match in it. Marvel 3 neutral game didn't really pick up until 2013 and even then it was like 4 players playing good neutral. Now everyone who is competitive plays good neutral at the bare minimum.
The play was top notch by all the players minus the combo drops here and there which even the gods drop in those situations at that stage. You guys have no idea how immaculate someone like Frutsy was playing in some of those matches especially against Cross.... those MODOk fundamentals were ridiculous.
Saying this was the weakest Marvel top 8 since Vanilla is pretty inaccurate. It was much better than 2012 top 8 as well except for a single match in it. Marvel 3 neutral game didn't really pick up until 2013 and even then it was like 4 players playing good neutral. Now everyone who is competitive plays good neutral at the bare minimum.
Aaronrules380
Member
This logic can work on a case by case basis, but it starts to fail when you're saying that this applies to the entire top 8
where did i say that anything was entitled or that i wanted them to win over kbr.
what i'm saying is that your statement of "the gods don't care about the game anymore so that's why they lost" is taking away from KBR's win, not adding to it. the dude didn't beat a weakened and rusty justin, he beat justin who had trained and prepared himself for the tournament.
clockwork didn't eliminate a fchamp who "didn't practice the game lol", he beat fchamp who was very clearly practicing
The Sarcastic Dude
Banned
Has this been posted already? Cuz holy shit I'm dying.
Lol Yea, but this threads pretty big.Has this been posted already? Cuz holy shit I'm dying.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
She does kinda look like the joker
RedAssedApe
Banned
lol just saw the guilty gear semis. where guy loses because he stands up to celebrate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLWTM0sJFMk
any other funny moments like this? (besides topless poongko match)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLWTM0sJFMk
any other funny moments like this? (besides topless poongko match)
No, I said they don't care as much and were rightfully replaced by people who do care and aren't ready to move on just yet. KBR proved himself by beating players who were better prepared and frankly better than Justin was this weekend. He beat hungry players in the top 8. I'm certainly not taking away from his accomplishments at all.
801 Strider triple perfects a little kid then pops off. Not as crazy as the GGX moment but still pretty funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJU8u10FhM0
I don't necessarily want to see him lose the match but I love seeing him get tested and have to think hard about which character he's going to switch to. The Abel switch came out of nowhere and almost got him to GF. That may have been my highlight of the entire day even though it didn't necessarily work out.
JB-the-Hunter
Member
I'm curious what Smash 4's numbers are, because it's pretty big in Japan. Bigger than Melee and MK.
WTF is this about LOL.
sixteen-bit
Member
Aris with that pepperoni metaphor...
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