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[Schopenhauerian]

I do think there's reason to be concerned about Uncharted: The Lost Legacy, as I mentioned in some other posts: one / two / three

I agree, at the end of the day teams, especially big budget AAA teams, that want to engage with other cultures should consider it a responsibility to have those cultures represented on their team, and honestly in more than just a token way.

It really says something about the games industry and particularly Ubisoft that Far Cry 3 managed to go through development without any correction to its racist narrative and that few mainstream media publications and gamers at large didn't react to it.

I’m hoping there’s still time for Naughty Dog to do something along these lines, for The Lost Legacy:

In light of the recent, problematic statement from someone at Naughty Dog (specifically, the Creative Director for the upcoming Uncharted: The Lost Legacy), I'd like to commend CDPR for taking the following initiative, with respect to Cyberpunk 2077:

CDPR has posted some new positions on their website, among them:

Cultural and Linguistic Consultant

This individual will play a part in designing the cultural/linguistic aspects of the game world. They will also be called upon to provide various references and source materials/knowledge about the melting pot that is American culture (California in particular) to be used in game design, implementation and dialogue writing

Working closely with the Story, Quest and Localization teams to catch cultural misconceptions and errors.
Providing various references to the melting pot that is American culture (California in particular) to be used in game design, implementation and dialogue writing.
Deep understanding of American society and culture.

Clearly, they want the world of the Cyberpunk 2077 to be as accurate in its depiction of the American society as possible. This was one of the worries that people have expressed before - whether or not a Polish dev will be able to catch the nuance.

https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/careers/jobs/cultural-and-linguistic-consultant/

Hopefully Naughty Dog will take a similar step, and soon:

https://failbluedot.com/indiana-jones-racist-sexist
...Note that, a lot of the problems would have been pretty easy to fix if they cared enough to spend 0.5% of the budget on a consultant. Then what made the movie memorable (the darkness and tension, the inventive action scenes) would stand the test of time better. The idea that the stereotypes were somehow necessary to make it a success imply that there isn’t enough creativity out there to work a few more constraints into the million other constraints people already face when creating movies. Which should offend movie-goers and movie-makers alike...

 

[Camp Freddie]

I remember playing Far Cry 3 and expecting a Shamayalan twist of "It's just a dream. You're really in a coma after a skydiving accident and this is the white saviour fantasy of a horribly spoiled gap-year student."
At the very least, I expected it to have some sort of "unreliable narrator" twist, but instead they seem to play it straight.

Good video anyway.

 

[APF]

Am I the only one though that wishes she would use this opportunity to educate people?

I feel these videos do just that, but really they're just a jumping-off point for you to do your own research. They're not intended to be dissertations, just 101-level intro stuff for people who haven't even considered looking at game content critically.

 

[Catalix]

Kingdom Hearts does the same dark skin = bad nonsense. Xehanort and his other villainous incarnations are the only dark skinned main characters originally created for this series.

Meanwhile there's no shortage of virtuous light skinned, often blue eyed, original heroes.

And when Xehanort possesses the body of one of those white skinned characters, their skin magically turns dark. It's a really tone deaf pattern of design choices.

 

[Messofanego]

Kingdom Hearts does the same dark skin = bad nonsense. Xehanort and his other villainous incarnations are the only dark skinned main characters originally created for this series.

Meanwhile there's no shortage of virtuous light skinned, often blue eyed, original heroes.

And when Xehanort possesses the body of one of those white skinned characters, their skin magically turns dark. It's a really tone deaf pattern of design choices.

Are there even any black people who work on these Japanese videogames along with Hyrule Warriors and other examples to let them know this is not cool?

 

[Ilmyr]

I feel these videos do just that, but really they're just a jumping-off point for you to do your own research. They're not intended to be dissertations, just 101-level intro stuff for people who haven't even considered looking at game content critically.

Thats exactly how i feel currently. She cuts the problem but fails to bring an educational approach, probably because there is none. So i started googling for stereotypes in video games and immediately ended up in sexism/racism gaming topics.

It seems to be a conflict of different cultures and understanding for it. I myself can clearly draw a line between fictional games/movies and reality and don't generalize from a particular scene.

I read the linked review of "Indiana Jones & the temple of doom" and find it still funny. I would not conclude that indian people eat monkey brain or eye soup, just because some people in a cursed palace eat that.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

Are there even any black people who work on these Japanese videogames along with Hyrule Warriors and other examples to let them know this is not cool?

Chaobreaker mentioned:

...This is after Capcom took some early criticism of the whole white guy shooting down hordes of black people and added [X]... They knew they fucked up...

Is there more info on Capcom’s acknowledgement of the problems? I’d be interested in the history of how Capcom came to understand there was a problem, and how it was that they managed to fail to understand that the ‘corrections’ they made were entirely insufficient.

...I read the linked review of "Indiana Jones & the temple of doom" and find it still funny. I would not conclude that indian people eat monkey brain or eye soup, just because some people in a cursed palace eat that.

The point we would hope you would understand is that this kind of misconception, spread by a movie in this case, certainly wasn't "funny" to those who were subject to ridicule, bullying, etc., because of it:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ate-of-dhoom/articleshow/1746623.cms?flstry=1
...One of the more striking indications of the way in which perceptions of India have changed around the world lies in your answer to a simple question: could even Steven Spielberg make a film like Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom today? It's been just over two decades since that blockbuster swept the world's movie screens, taking boy-wonder Spielberg (who'd already gone from the dental Jaws to the transcendental Close Encounters of the Third Kind) into the cinematic stratosphere. Despite lame dialogue, contrived plotlines and a visual gloominess that makes you wonder why anyone sat through the thing at all, the real problem with the second film in Indiana Jones trilogy was undoubtedly its grotesque depiction of India...

https://web.archive.org/web/20050108064134/http://www.mssu.edu/projectsouthasia/tsa/VIN1/Rosser.htm
...In secondary schools, however, even this level of intellectualism is, needless to say, missing. The basic structure for the presentation of India for school students was described by the Indian-American students surveyed at UT Austin… The wholly fictional depiction of India in the Steven Spielberg film, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, seems to have been taken as a valid portrayal of India by many teachers, since a large number of students surveyed complained that teachers [in secondary schools] referred to the eating of monkey brains…

https://failbluedot.com/indiana-jones-racist-sexist
...Note that, a lot of the problems would have been pretty easy to fix if they cared enough to spend 0.5% of the budget on a consultant. Then what made the movie memorable (the darkness and tension, the inventive action scenes) would stand the test of time better. The idea that the stereotypes were somehow necessary to make it a success imply that there isn’t enough creativity out there to work a few more constraints into the million other constraints people already face when creating movies. Which should offend movie-goers and movie-makers alike...

Not to mention, let's not act like Western racist stereotype depictions didn't have any impact or influence on later Japanese character design… The Story of Little Black Sambo was first published in Japan in 1953. Despite it being an unlicensed version of the original using illustrations from Frank Dobias and depicting Sambo as an African boy rather than as an Indian boy, "The book is beloved in Japan and is not considered controversial there, but it was subject to copyright infringement". The book was pulled in 1988 after copyright issues and a American anti-racism against Blacks campaign were raised. In 2005, the book was reprinted in Japan and became a bestseller. Once Shunned as Racist, Storybook Bestseller in Japan...

...Please read this: http://www.mtv.com/news/2456617/new...nt-evil-5-trailer-this-imagery-has-a-history/

http://www.mtv.com/news/2456617/new...nt-evil-5-trailer-this-imagery-has-a-history/
N'Gai Croal (Newsweek): ...The music that they're using in the [RE5] trailer is very reminiscent of the music used in Black Hawk Down which was set in Africa -- Somalia. That actually was one of the things that was most disturbing because it sort of had a feeling as like, "Wow, what research did this team do? Did they only watch Black Hawk Down and give it this kind of vibe?" I don't want to put down the Capcom team that's working on it. I hope they did more research than that. But based on that trailer, it's very difficult to tell. And Black Hawk Down was a very problematic film among a handful of critics and particularly among African-American viewers and African viewers when it came out because of the sort of narrow focus of its portrayal...

 

[petran79]

Thats exactly how i feel currently. She cuts the problem but fails to bring an educational approach, probably because there is none. So i started googling for stereotypes in video games and immediately ended up in sexism/racism gaming topics.

It seems to be a conflict of different cultures and understanding for it. I myself can clearly draw a line between fictional games/movies and reality and don't generalize from a particular scene.

I read the linked review of "Indiana Jones & the temple of doom" and find it still funny. I would not conclude that indian people eat monkey brain or eye soup, just because some people in a cursed palace eat that.

She tries to make her arguments clear in layman's terms. No use mentioning cultural anthropology and social sciences terms most people wouldnt be familiar with.
Rather videos are food for thought. She knows that even her approach has issues, it just would stray very off topic and would make videos lose their original intent.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I forgot Black Hawk Down was the main inspiration for RE5. lol

 

[Wace]

The point we would hope you would understand is that this kind of misconception, spread by a movie in this case, certainly wasn't "funny" to those who were subject to ridicule, bullying, etc., because of it

Sorry to intervene in the discussion, but does it apply to all ethnic/national stereotypes? I.e. should I consider Armageddon (first thing that comes to mind) to be racist (seems like there should be different term here) movie?

 

[Mista Koo]

I do think there's reason to be concerned about Uncharted: The Lost Legacy, as I mentioned in some other posts: one / two / three

Wow. I haven't heard about this. And I thought "using hijab as disguise" was bad.

Shantae isn't middle eastern what are you talking about?

"This character is a middle eastern stereotype!"
"What at all in this points to her being middle eastern?"

"[stereotype]"

Yeah, ok.

So we're not allowed to have genies in fiction anymore? Genies, done. Ok.

1. She is a mythological Islamic creature (well, half).
2. The way she dresses and dances is believed to have originated from the middle east.
3. She is brown.

I don't know anything about FC3 (or any other FC for that matter) with the exception of this FF video, so the question may be stupid: what exactly is racist there? Unless we're calling the whole "tribal savages" trope racism. Would it make it ok/better if the exact same game was set in Arctic with Eskimo-like tribe or Lord of the Flies kind of setting with Caucasian savages?

It often is, especially when done in the way it was shown in the video.

 

[Lime]

Is there more info on Capcom's acknowledgement of the problems? I'd be interested in the history of how Capcom came to understand there was a problem, and how it was that they managed to fail to understand that the ‘corrections' they made were entirely insufficient.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2457353/resident-evil-5-producer-comments/

Takeuchi: No, we certainly didn't anticipate the reaction. We were quite surprised by the reaction that came out. I think everyone understands that we never set out to with the intention to make anything that was racist -- that was never our intention. We think it was a bit of a misunderstanding when we published the first images of the game back in the day. And we think that as we move along and allow people to see more the game and more of what's going on and more of the story, people will get a better idea of the game. I think you can see that that reaction has started to die down a little bit. To answer the question that was posted on your blog, there are black members in the development team. We do have staff working on the game, who are aware of the historical background and we are constantly checking these kinds of things with them.

I think it's PR and damage control to be honest. It even has that "we didn't intend to be racist" fallacy.

We had a thread about it back in 2008 and it's pretty damning to go through it and see the comments - things have changed for sure: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328099

 

[djtiesto]

Curious to see what she says about StarTropics, as that's a favorite of mine.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

http://www.mtv.com/news/2457353/resident-evil-5-producer-comments/



I think it's PR and damage control to be honest. It even has that "we didn't intend to be racist" fallacy.

We had a thread about it back in 2008 and it's pretty damning to go through it and see the comments - things have changed for sure: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328099

Idk, it was at least an honest effort from a Japanese company to address the problem, even though it still came out flawed.

 

[PtM]

I remember playing Far Cry 3 and expecting a Shamayalan twist of "It's just a dream. You're really in a coma after a skydiving accident and this is the white saviour fantasy of a horribly spoiled gap-year student."
At the very least, I expected it to have some sort of "unreliable narrator" twist, but instead they seem to play it straight.

Good video anyway.

According to the interview, the game itself was supposed to be the unreliable narrator. Hints to this were supposed to be the Alice quotes and the name of the island, among others.

Are there even any black people who work on these Japanese videogames along with Hyrule Warriors and other examples to let them know this is not cool?

Hehe.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

http://www.mtv.com/news/2457353/resident-evil-5-producer-comments/

I think it's PR and damage control to be honest. It even has that "we didn't intend to be racist" fallacy.

We had a thread about it back in 2008 and it's pretty damning to go through it and see the comments - things have changed for sure: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328099

Thanks for the info/links. Reading through that thread now... certainly much that conforms to the above-mentioned model:

https://the-orbit.net/heinous/2014/11/10/seriously/
Whenever anyone has the utter gall — the gall, I say! — to criticize fictional works, especially ones beloved by the person viewing said criticism, the defensive party’s argument is generally is along one or more of three veins.

1. It’s just fiction and exists merely to entertain. There is no need to take it so seriously.
2. The adaptation of this fiction cannot be blamed for elements that are true to its source material.
3. It’s fiction and is not meant to be a political statement / politically correct.

 

[bati]

I had no idea Far Cry 3's story was so fucking dumb. Holy hell man.

I think Ubisoft is doing this on purpose. The Division also had some NPCs that had quest writing completely out of touch with the overall tone of the game.

I don't know what their goal is but it's jarring as hell.

 

[jtb]

Deus Ex has some crazy racist stuff. Like the entire Hong Kong section is cringe worthy, at best. Oh, and you can kill a kid (what the fuck??!?).

One of my favorite games of all time, but obviously the writing and production values leave much to be desired, and these days most of that stuff gets chalked up to just being incredibly dated and cheaply made.

 

[Akainu]

You're right. They have a longer history of racial intolerance. Ever heard of the Ainu? There's a reason ivory skin was prized: it meant you were "pure" and devoid of Ainu ancestry, a fact long since forgotten, since even as far back as the founding of feudal Japan, the Ainu were treated like they don't exist, and this has since become thought of as some feudal classism hold over, when it has roots in racial intolerance.

What? Pretty sure it just meant you didn't work out in the sun like a commoner.

 

[jakeProtagonist]

I am actually in disbelief that this thread has managed to turn into attacking something as adorable and as innocent as Shantae. That series with adorable and diverse characters with even better art design and writing.
"Oh no my dick gets hard because she's sexually attractive. This is the problem with the WORLD and DAMAGES WOMAN.". Yeah cover those ankles madam, lest you tempt our good men and children. She's a belly dancer for crying out loud. How pathetic can you get. Just as much to get angry over it and reply I suppose. At least I have self awareness

 

[Barryman]

Yeah...I don't really know about the Alyx analysis. The idea that Alyx must have some kind of "cultural heritage" that is being omitted from the game, just because she's non-white? Isn't Sarkessian exotifying people of color herself with that argument?

 

[Chaos17]

I am actually in disbelief that this thread has managed to turn into attacking something as adorable and as innocent as Shantae. That series with adorable and diverse characters with even better art design and writing.
"Oh no my dick gets hard because she's sexually attractive. This is the problem with the WORLD and DAMAGES WOMAN.". Yeah cover those ankles madam, lest you tempt our good men and children. She's a belly dancer for crying out loud. How pathetic can you get. Just as much to get angry over it and reply I suppose. At least I have self awareness

I agree with you, I don't think Shantae deserve to be criticized and contrary I like her, rare female heroine who is not white and have cool adventures in fantasy setting (I'm not saying heroic fantasy).

So I don't think people should victimized every possible character they can for the sake of argument when devs do threat them with grat respect. Yes, Ganondowf is inspired by arabic tribes but I think he is really cool especially in Wind Waker and Hyrule warrior. He is cool the way he looks, not because he is an evil character.

 

[PtM]

I am actually in disbelief that this thread has managed to turn into attacking something as adorable and as innocent as Shantae. That series with adorable and diverse characters with even better art design and writing.
"Oh no my dick gets hard because she's sexually attractive. This is the problem with the WORLD and DAMAGES WOMAN.". Yeah cover those ankles madam, lest you tempt our good men and children. She's a belly dancer for crying out loud. How pathetic can you get. Just as much to get angry over it and reply I suppose. At least I have self awareness

I laughed.

 

[Messofanego]

Thanks for the info/links. Reading through that thread now... certainly much that conforms to the above-mentioned model:

https://the-orbit.net/heinous/2014/11/10/seriously/
Whenever anyone has the utter gall — the gall, I say! — to criticize fictional works, especially ones beloved by the person viewing said criticism, the defensive party’s argument is generally is along one or more of three veins.

1. It’s just fiction and exists merely to entertain. There is no need to take it so seriously.
2. The adaptation of this fiction cannot be blamed for elements that are true to its source material.
3. It’s fiction and is not meant to be a political statement / politically correct.

I'll have to remember those next time this kind of topic comes up!

 

[Messofanego]

Deus Ex has some crazy racist stuff. Like the entire Hong Kong section is cringe worthy, at best. Oh, and you can kill a kid (what the fuck??!?).

One of my favorite games of all time, but obviously the writing and production values leave much to be desired, and these days most of that stuff gets chalked up to just being incredibly dated and cheaply made.

I speel my drink! I'm sure most of the devs would regret those stereotypes lol

 

[Mael]

I absolutely love what Wayforward usually does but seriously they couldn't make a firefighter game without resorting to sexing up all their human protagonists who just happened to be female!
Then again it was an evolution of a police game where the 2 cop were 1 robot and 1 sexy android with villains being sexy thieves with pany shots and all.

It's great that they're no longer confined to licensed properties (then again maybe they liked doing that and it bring "easy" dough so heh) but they certainly could do with less shitty designs.

 

[dreamfall]

I really hate everything related to the narrative of Far Cry 3. The tribalism, the white savior complex, the use of rape lightly, the tattoo power ups - everything. I can't believe I played that trash.

 

[Dyna]

(Slightly off-topic)

I'm actually quite surprised that so many seem to be completely fine with Shantae. Honestly, I'm usually not one to get bothered by sexualization of characters (or exotification but that's because I hadn't really thought about it before) in games but Shantae manages to do exactly that for me. Now, I'm not really talking about the exotification of Shantae as I don't really find that to be a problem in the games but I'm seriously irked by the female characters' designs. So far I have only played a little bit of Risky's Revenge and while I do think the core game is quite fun, I can't help but think who are these games actually aimed at when I see the busty women appear in the dialogue scenes. Everything else seems to be pretty kid-friendly but then there's just tits out of nowhere, for no reason. I guess that's the main reason why it bothers me: there really just is no good reason for the characters to be so sexualized. I own the physical PS4 versions of Risky's Revenge and the Pirate's Curse and when I looked at the reversible covers for the games I was just confused by the unnecessarily "sexy" art they used for them. Blah, sorry, this really didn't add anything to the exotification discussion but I just wanted to share some thoughts on Shantae.

 

[IvorB]

I don't know anything about FC3 (or any other FC for that matter) with the exception of this FF video, so the question may be stupid: what exactly is racist there? Unless we're calling the whole "tribal savages" trope racism. Would it make it ok/better if the exact same game was set in Arctic with Eskimo-like tribe or Lord of the Flies kind of setting with Caucasian savages?

Well among other things the idea of a group of white males heading off to an exotic location where the indigenous people are seen as tribal savages contributes to the notion of the Other:

The term Othering describes the reductive action of labelling a person as someone who belongs to a subordinate social category defined as the Other. The practice of Othering is the exclusion of persons who do not fit the norm of the social group, which is a version of the Self

Post-colonial scholarship demonstrated that, in pursuit of empire, "the colonizing powers narrated an 'Other' whom they set out to save, dominate, control, [and] civilize ... [in order to] extract resources through colonization" of the homeland of the people labelled as the Other.[30] As facilitated by Orientalist representations of the non–Western Other, colonisation—the economic exploitation of a people and their land—is misrepresented as being for the material, spiritual, and cultural benefit of the colonised peoples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other

This seems to ring true in the case of Far Cry 3 which depicts the other races as helpless and waiting for a western, white saviour to rescue them from their barbarism.

Now I haven't played the game so I can't comment too deeply but that's the impression I got from watching the video.

 

[Dio]

I absolutely love what Wayforward usually does but seriously they couldn't make a firefighter game without resorting to sexing up all their human protagonists who just happened to be female!
Then again it was an evolution of a police game where the 2 cop were 1 robot and 1 sexy android with villains being sexy thieves with pany shots and all.

It's great that they're no longer confined to licensed properties (then again maybe they liked doing that and it bring "easy" dough so heh) but they certainly could do with less shitty designs.

Honestly, I'm glad they're filling a niche. There needs to be more cartoon-styled (not anime, cartoon) 'sexy' games that aren't shit. Currently, all the 'sexy' games that also play well/are fun are completely 100% dominated by the Japanese, and the West needs to step the fuck up so Lab Zero and Wayforward aren't the only people repping us.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

100% with her on this shit. These developers are obviously not thinking when making this shit and a good way to ensure this will happen less often is if more women and people of color enter the field.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

(Slightly off-topic)

I'm actually quite surprised that so many seem to be completely fine with Shantae. Honestly, I'm usually not one to get bothered by sexualization of characters (or exotification but that's because I hadn't really thought about it before) in games but Shantae manages to do exactly that for me. Now, I'm not really talking about the exotification of Shantae as I don't really find that to be a problem in the games but I'm seriously irked by the female characters' designs. So far I have only played a little bit of Risky's Revenge and while I do think the core game is quite fun, I can't help but think who are these games actually aimed at when I see the busty women appear in the dialogue scenes. Everything else seems to be pretty kid-friendly but then there's just tits out of nowhere, for no reason. I guess that's the main reason why it bothers me: there really just is no good reason for the characters to be so sexualized. I own the physical PS4 versions of Risky's Revenge and the Pirate's Curse and when I looked at the reversible covers for the games I was just confused by the unnecessarily "sexy" art they used for them. Blah, sorry, this really didn't add anything to the exotification discussion but I just wanted to share some thoughts on Shantae.

I dunno, Shantae never really bugged me. I mean the characters are sexualized but because the game is so whimsical and goofy it doesn't really come across as so abrasive imo. It's mostly just like they had fun designing sexy powerful cartoon female characters honestly. I get why it bugs some people especially in the grand scheme with the shitty portrayal of women in gaming but I always enjoyed it was mostly a female cast of good looking characters inspired by something not common kicking ass. I wish they would sexualize the male characters in these games more too honestly.

The sexualization doesn't bother me more than the fact it is solely targeted at female characters. All the time. Shantae that is just kind of the world. A lot of these other games it just serves zero purpose.

_____________________________________________________________

I really do hate the dark skin = evil shit. It's so normalized that people justify it but the whole white = right, dark = bad is a fucking reflection of modern society. So people shouldn't assume it just came out of no where in gaming.

 

[Mael]

Honestly, I'm glad they're filling a niche. There needs to be more cartoon-styled (not anime, cartoon) 'sexy' games that aren't shit. Currently, all the 'sexy' games that also play well/are fun are completely 100% dominated by the Japanese, and the West needs to step the fuck up so Lab Zero and Wayforward aren't the only people repping us.

If you removed the 'sexy' from every single one of their game they would probably be even better than they are.
Mighty Switch Force isn't better because they thrusting boobies on my face every time I finish a level.
More cartoon games that aren't shit is something I long for.
Last game I bought from EA was Henry Hatworth and it was fucking fantastic.
Some people don't want anything less than 60fps, I don't want shitty boobies invading my games for no reason I'mnot12thankyou

 

[Inuhanyou]

Kingdom Hearts does the same dark skin = bad nonsense. Xehanort and his other villainous incarnations are the only dark skinned main characters originally created for this series.

Meanwhile there's no shortage of virtuous light skinned, often blue eyed, original heroes.

And when Xehanort possesses the body of one of those white skinned characters, their skin magically turns dark. It's a really tone deaf pattern of design choices.

Kingdom hearts is racist!? But darkness and light are apart of the basic core themes...i think sometimes people go too far.

If you removed the 'sexy' from every single one of their game they would probably be even better than they are.
Mighty Switch Force isn't better because they thrusting boobies on my face every time I finish a level.
More cartoon games that aren't shit is something I long for.
Last game I bought from EA was Henry Hatworth and it was fucking fantastic.
Some people don't want anything less than 60fps, I don't want shitty boobies invading my games for no reason I'mnot12thankyou

If they are fulfilling a niche as that other guy said, its no use pretending that they are aiming at anything other than they are. They aren't looking at a serious examination of anything and coming up half assed.

This is a problem i have with a lot of these sweeping judgmental viewpoint...just because it offends you in particular doesn't mean it should not exist.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Kingdom hearts is racist!? But darkness and light are apart of the basic core themes...i think sometimes people go too far.

The dark skin = evil thing is done is so many video games. Why do you think that is?

Edit: Holy fucking shit, is the Far Cry 3 shit real? Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

 

[Mael]

If they are fulfilling a niche as that other guy said, its no use pretending that they are aiming at anything other than they are. They aren't looking at a serious examination of anything and coming up half assed.

This is a problem i have with a lot of these sweeping judgmental viewpoint...just because it offends you in particular doesn't mean it should not exist.

We see people argue at the most minutiae of all the games released here.
Some people lament that aiming ain't sticky enough for them, you don't see a contingent of people going after them saying how they should play something else.
I'm paying for their game and I'm saying that they would be better for me if they didn't include an element I think is damaging the experience.
Whether or not it's a mechanic or the art design makes no difference.

Go see the Conduit threads in here, you'll see plenty of people finding the art design downright offensive and no one to shut them off too.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I guess they could've panned from the waist up. But it was pretty quick. It's been a while since I've played it, but did that happen often throughout the game? Or was it just what was shown in the video?

It wasn't common, no. I think the sexualization of Nilin is extremely mild, and personally I wouldn't find it worth mentioning, though I can see why Anita brought her up (since she's a rare example of a black female protagonist).

Yes it doesn't change that she's not Middle Eastern. I was wondering more where are you getting that from?

Are you serious? GTFO

 

[petran79]

I am actually in disbelief that this thread has managed to turn into attacking something as adorable and as innocent as Shantae. That series with adorable and diverse characters with even better art design and writing.
"Oh no my dick gets hard because she's sexually attractive. This is the problem with the WORLD and DAMAGES WOMAN.". Yeah cover those ankles madam, lest you tempt our good men and children. She's a belly dancer for crying out loud. How pathetic can you get. Just as much to get angry over it and reply I suppose. At least I have self awareness

They should name her Scantae instead...

 

[Inuhanyou]

We see people argue at the most minutiae of all the games released here.
Some people lament that aiming ain't sticky enough for them, you don't see a contingent of people going after them saying how they should play something else.
I'm paying for their game and I'm saying that they would be better for me if they didn't include an element I think is damaging the experience.
Whether or not it's a mechanic or the art design makes no difference.

Go see the Conduit threads in here, you'll see plenty of people finding the art design downright offensive and no one to shut them off too.

I guess your right about that...i'm just saying its fine to criticize something and say it disappointing you and is something you don't enjoy without saying 'i hate it so nobody should play it/it should never have been made'

Generally speaking, its always going to be a subjective thing.

The dark skin = evil thing is done is so many video games. Why do you think that is?

Which ones? I don't think KH in particular is saying anything overtly offensive outside of darkness being metaphorically associated with destruction and light being associated with goodness in that universe.

Infact i see way more of the opposite in the games i consume, of divine white shining figures as the actual bad guys as opposed to the darkness characters being the good.

See "dark is not evil/light is not good" trope.

 

[DemWalls]

I wonder if there will ever be a FF video without (at least) a Witcher mention.

 

[Mael]

I guess your right about that...i'm just saying its fine to criticize something and say it disappointing you and is something you don't enjoy without saying 'i hate it so nobody should play it/it should never have been made'

Generally speaking, its always going to be a subjective thing.

Again I'm a paying customer and I usually enjoy their games.
If shantae wasn't looking like a stripper I probably would play that too.
If we can survive people claiming that shit like Wiimusic shouldn't have been made we can survive people saying that for any other game.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Again I'm a paying customer and I usually enjoy their games.
If shantae wasn't looking like a stripper I probably would play that too.
If we can survive people claiming that shit like Wiimusic shouldn't have been made we can survive people saying that for any other game.

She doesn't look like a stripper, that is hyperbole.

She is fashioned off of..the stereotypical concept of Arabian belly dancers which is basically the whole origin concept of the character, you know this. Its not like i have to explain it to you

 

[Mael]

She doesn't look like a stripper, that is hyperbole.

She is fashioned off of..the stereotypical concept of Arabian belly dancers which is basically the whole origin concept of the character, you know this. Its not like i have to explain it to you

And if I go to a strip club I'll still find girls wearing this while they dance.
No one forced them to use that design or make a game full of that.
I don't say that it's not a good game and it's not worth playing and paying top dollar either.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

I always feel like she brings up fair enough points, but I also feel like her targeting video games specifically isn't good for video games since it draws attention to it like it's a special case. These things can be usually shown in almost all forms of media to some degree. Starting to feel like she would be more useful critiquing our culture's entertainment in a broader context.

 

[Nepenthe]

I'm less than two minutes in with the Far Cry 3 example, and Jesus fucking Christ I had no idea (only played Blood Dragon). No one in development caught onto this and was like "Does this seem a little 1850s to you?"... Seriously, how does this even happen in this day and age? This is about to be a doozy. Side-eye for everyone right now.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I always feel like she brings up fair enough points, but I also feel like her targeting video games specifically isn't good for video games since it draws attention to it like it's a special case. These things can be usually shown in almost all forms of media to some degree. Starting to feel like she would be more useful critiquing our culture's entertainment in a broader context.

Why? It's a series about videogames.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Which ones? I don't think KH in particular is saying anything overtly offensive outside of darkness being metaphorically associated with destruction and light being associated with goodness in that universe..

Yeah and I don't really think RE5 was trying to say anything about black people being savage and African's can uncivilized. But that doesn't mean what they actually presented isn't problematic. It's the same thing I find with KH. All the evil characters have dark skin. Like why? What about dark skin insinuates evil? These characters could have the same skin tone as Sora and company and nothing changes. But they specifically go down this route (and I mean KH just goes through so much dumbass lore plot jumps it is shocking this one manages to stay consistent)

 

[Dio]

What about dark skin insinuates evil?

Light = purity = good = God.
Dark = shadows = evil = Satan.

Good old Christianity.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Why? It's a series about videogames.

I answered this in my post you quoted, right after the bold.

She's a feminist with decent points that should be addressed in more than just video games imo. Movies, comics, YouTube, TV shows, and even books are all guilty of what she's calling out.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I always feel like she brings up fair enough points, but I also feel like her targeting video games specifically isn't good for video games since it draws attention to it like it's a special case. These things can be usually shown in almost all forms of media to some degree. Starting to feel like she would be more useful critiquing our culture's entertainment in a broader context.

There is already a lot of critical works on other types of media. There is very few focusing on video games. One of the points of having a limited scope is to draw attention to medium-specific issues. And it's not like we're lacking on examples.

I honestly have no idea why this isn't good for video games.