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Feminist Frequency: Not Your Exotic Fantasy - Tropes vs. Women in Video Games

Well, he became a gay bara icon after RE5 so... yeah. And it seems Capcom has been riding on the popularity after the initial RE5 release, what's with the Warrior (BDSM) costume in RE5 PC/Gold release, the Sailor costume in Revelations and half-naked samurai in RE6 (his unused costumes depicted in the RE6 art book also looked very interesting).

However, Chris still has nothing on Sheva with her tribal costume and the fairytale costume.

I'm very aware of that, but there's nothing pointing towards them having that in mind when redesigning him. I like his later outfits, they're very nice, but I'm not sure that was the demographic they were aiming for at the time.
 

IvorB

Member
Wow those examples she gave are pretty damning: Far Cry 3 and that Sheva costume. Video is pretty on point as usual.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Far Cry 3 E3 2012

Not only is it an awkward opening of having sex with the protagonist but it's preceded by a black woman, Aisha Tyler, introducing it.

Far Cry 3 E3 2012

Not only is it an awkward opening of having sex with the protagonist but it's preceded by a black woman, Aisha Tyler, introducing it.

He's a fine person, but man his views on just Far Cry 3 are like...weird. It's like when you have a barely explained and bad story in a movie and you have fans trying to justify every crap thing by making convoluted reasoning just so they can feel good about defending it.

Reading the article makes me think he might have fallen into the common trap of making satire that's indistinguishable from the real thing, and him just not getting that people won't see it as satire as a result. As the interviewer points out and Sarkeesian's video series is designed to illustrate, you don't have to go far for sincerely bad examples of a lot of tropes in games. So it's more likely people are going to take it at face value. It wouldn't be that hard to see Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon as being sincere given how hard it hangs onto the 80s tropes and feel, for instance (you'd probably just have to ignore the tutorial.)

It is definitely weird rectifying his intent with Far Cry 3 with basically all the themes of Child of Light.
 

Fliesen

Member
Jesus, that intro!

The fact that Ubisoft is one of those devs who are clearly on somewhat of an upwards trajectory is kinda nice, since i really enjoy their games from a mechanics standpoint.

The fact that her videos are becoming more focused really helps out the argument, because it's harder for people to dismissively 'disprove' her arguments by bringing up the same (few!) counter examples over and over and over again. Like when you're talking about the lack of strong female characters in movies "but but but, Ripley, Sarah Connor"

The Zelda example is a BIT of a reach (with regards to the evil character having 'tribal paintings') but that's just imho, that's merely a matter of interpretation.

I liked the far cry 3 ending and story. Making that choice at the end was really cool. Kind of reminded me of Avatar

don't feel bad. I loved Far Cry 3 - it was an incredibly well crafted game, especially the scripted story sequences - but as well crafted as it might have been, it still used some really racist stereotypes and tropes.
It's perfectly fine if you like the game, as long as you're aware of the fact that it's not unproblematic in its depictions of 'exotic' people and their interactions with a white man.
There is, in fact, a middle ground where developers can be told that a game was great in certain aspects, not so great in some, and that they should be improving on their shortcomings.
Ubisoft seems to be getting that message. Both their latest Watch Dogs game, as well as their latest Assassin's creed were applauded for some of the stuff they did with regards to minority representation
 

CamHostage

Member
I liked the far cry 3 ending and story. Making that choice at the end was really cool. Kind of reminded me of Avatar
you may be part of the problem

Eh, but don't do that. Don't identify people as "part of the problem"...

The point of Feminist Frequency is to identify the commonality and acceptance of the problem of female representation ... you can still like tasteless and misogynistic entertainment, though, and identifying those who like a crass or exploitative piece of entertainment as "the problem" is part of what the real people who are "the problem" (IE the loud and threatening and clueless haters of this project's purpose) are using to discredit the show and Sarkeesian. By labeling people as "the problem", those caught in the middle of liking bad taste and hating poor treatment of women to choose a side, and especially when some of the games in question are beloved titles like Zelda, Diablo, and Street Fighter, those people may love their games more than your cause. And that's never the point of Feminist Frequency, to demonize games that use these common tropes; the point is to make people aware of just how prevalent and potentially damaging they are, and identify how a change might make games even better than they are today for all audiences.

I love the movie Showgirls.

This is a movie made by a director I consider to be a master. It mixes European freedom of adult content with American moxy and flash. It has themes worthy of exploration (I own books about the movie and have been to a lecture about its misunderstood value) ...And also, it has an assload of rude boobies and bitchy catfighting! When I was a college kid, I loved Showgirls because it was audacious and super-nude. When I got older, I was almost convinced by non-fans that its depiction of misogyny and sexual conniving was garbage and shouldn't exist, but eventually I realized that I could be aware of its problems and enjoy its virtues, that I could see it for what it is but also ask that future entertainment learn from it and improve its outlook.

As a grown man today, I see a void that movies like Showgirls tried to fill, however they went about it. I want better NC-17 movies to be available; movies not afraid to depict all of positive and negative aspects of sexually active lifestyles. But partly because Showgirls was a flop, and partly because the religious right and the liberal left cannot give one another an inch of ground without their ideals being damaged by reactions of outrage, we get no movies anything like Showgirls. Instead of addressing the problem, we shamed projects that dealt with the problem (even if they did it badly) out of existence.

(Interestingly, TV has pushed into this territory in the last 10 years thanks to the over-abundance of programming that forced stations to explore the full spectrum of entertainment. And not only have we gotten some hot shows, we've gotten a much better representation of women at all levels of power and influence. Yes, men -and many women- still tune into Cinemax expecting blouses to peel off on a regular basis, but the characters and the level of acting behind that nudity fanservice is on a level beyond 80s and 90s exploitation cinema. Especially with female viewers being a huge and oftentimes majority percentage of the audience, they have learned from the past how to better treat women on screen. And now, as grotesque as 50 Shades of Grey is in its messaging, it's almost an adorable oddity of misogyny and female disempowerment.)

So I say enjoy Far Cry 3. But analyze its message, its themes, its semiotics, its intended or unintended influence. Be part of the problem AND part of the solution, and do what you can to encourage a market of video games that is not so painfully unbalanced away from solutions.
 

Haruka

Member
You're right. They have a longer history of racial intolerance. Ever heard of the Ainu? There's a reason ivory skin was prized: it meant you were "pure" and devoid of Ainu ancestry, a fact long since forgotten, since even as far back as the founding of feudal Japan, the Ainu were treated like they don't exist, and this has since become thought of as some feudal classism hold over, when it has roots in racial intolerance.

Ainu don't have a darker skin tone than people of "Japanese" ancestry. In fact, Ainu can easily pass as Japanese.
 
Looking at the subject matter, is it bad that I hope the double bubble of issues raised here are going to give some of those moronic scum bag haters real aneurysms?

As long as you realize that wishing real physical harm on people doesn't make you any better than the 'scumbags' you're complaining about.

Kinda just makes you one of them.
 
Eh, but don't do that. Don't identify people as "part of the problem"...

The point of Feminist Frequency is to identify the commonality and acceptance of the problem of female representation ... you can still like tasteless and misogynistic entertainment, though, and identifying those who like a crass or exploitative piece of entertainment as "the problem" is part of what the real people who are "the problem" (IE the loud and threatening and clueless haters of this project's purpose) are using to discredit the show and Sarkeesian.

I love the movie Showgirls. It's a movie made by a director I consider to be a master, it mixes European freedom of adult content with American moxy and flash, it has themes worthy of exploration (I own books about the movie and have been to a lecture about its misunderstood value) ... and it has tons of rude boobies and bitchy catfighting. When I was a college kid, I loved Showgirls because it was audacious and super-nude. When I got older, I was almost convinced that its depiction of misogyny and sexual conniving was garbage and shouldn't exist, but eventually I realized that I could be aware of its problems and enjoy its virtues, that I could see it for what it is but also ask that future entertainment learn from it and improve its outlook.

As a grown man, I now want better NC-17 movies; movies not afraid to depict all of positive and negative aspects of sexually active lifestyles. But partly because Showgirls was a flop, and partly because the religious right and the liberal left cannot give one another an inch of ground without their ideals being damaged by reactions of outrage, we get no movies anything like Showgirls. Instead of addressing the problem, we shamed projects that dealt with the problem (even if they did it badly) out of existence.

So I say enjoy Far Cry 3. But analyze its message, its themes, its semiotics, its intended or unintended influence. Be part of the problem AND part of the solution, and do what you can to encourage a market of video games that is not so painfully unbalanced away from solutions.

Maybe he can explain himself better. From what I see, hes saying he enjoyed the racist narrative, and racist ending. As a black guy, seeing that story line would make me turn off the game. But hey, not all of us have to worry about how were depicted in the media.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Literally can't find a single thing to disagree with her here. Great video.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
Within the first 10 seconds and she's already showing one of the worst recent offenders.

Overall, I loved this video. It's well reasoned. It touches many subjects and provides enough context within the video to understand why those subjects can be damaging and then provided additional reading for each.

The fact that she spent as much of the video on the damaging effects of appropriation as she did was what sealed it for me: I'd say it's her best video yet.
 
This video snatched my whole wig. Anita bodied this, and as a black women, this is something I greatly appreciate. This bothers me so much in video games that portray darker skinned women as evil or corrupt. It's bad enough that irl, we are less desired compared to our fairer skinned counterparts, but evil too?

This was a great video 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾✊🏾
 

Gattsu25

Banned
I'm trying to do a media blackout on Zelda Breath of the Wild. Which Zelda is presented in the video?

Hyrule Warriors. She points out some bullshit in the game that probably contributed to why I bounced off that game so fast.

Basically, a character is split into two. Their pure side and their evil side. Pure side is fair skinned. Evil side is dark skinned, marked up, and basically wearing swimwear.
 

Crocodile

Member
I can't say I have much of an issue with Ganon or Elena given the contexts of both series. Overall though I can't find much to disagree here - its a good video. I'm glad she understands what cultural appropriation is - I feel like a lot of people don't. It's not just people of one culture doing something invented by another (that's always been fine) It's the whole taking advantage of the aspects of other cultures in an often demeaning way and failing to acknowledge or respect its source (if not outright deriding that culture for doing or continuing to do that same thing).

EDIT: I just wanted to add I'd never seen or played a second of Far Cry 3 before and LOLWTF after seeing this video
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Hyrule Warriors. She points out some bullshit in the game that probably contributed to why I bounced off that game so fast.

Basically, a character is split into two. Their pure side and their evil side. Pure side is fair skinned. Evil side is dark skinned, marked up, and basically wearing swimwear.
I wish. She'd probably sink swimming with that shit, if she doesn't die from tetanus from all the chafing first. xD
 

PtM

Banned
Wasn't the DEHR story that they had to redo the voice for that on last notice and the actor had been given no context?
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I really wish the video touched upon the racist character in Deus Ex. Decades in the future and they made a Black woman sound like she was from the south in the 1900s.

https://youtu.be/He09JaBVZdE
The video focused on exotification, and while that's a pretty cringeworthy stereotype, it doesn't really fit the theme the video was focusing on.

Wasn't the DEHR story that they had to redo the voice for that on last notice and the actor had been given no context?
I'm not sure but I recall reading an interview with the VA, who is a black woman, though to my shame I don't remember what she said exactly about the whole thing. <.<
 
People are surprised by the presence of Hyrule Warrior? Don't forget that game is developed by Team Ninja. Problematic female presentation is expected.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
People are surprised by the presence of Hyrule Warrior? Don't forget that game it is developed by Team Ninja. Problematic female presentation is expected.

That is the case most of the times, but I have high hopes for Nioh, I think they recognize they want a more diverse audience for Nioh, that's why the character designs for most of the characters are not what you'd expect from typical team Ninja games that sell to the same 500k people.
 

JediLink

Member
Where does Anita stand on Shantae?

302


Surely she should count as a positive dark-skinned heroine, right? Or is she a stereotype too?

EDIT: To clarify I ask this because I was a bit surpised at her disdain for Elena, but then I realise that I know barely anything about world history or culture other than through media so I'm not a good judge on what could be considered a stereotype and what couldn't be.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
Where does Anita stand on Shantae?

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/shantae/images/7/7c/Pirate's_Curse_Shantae_Portrait.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/302?cb=20170101221154[IMG]

Surely she should count as a positive dark-skinned heroine, right? Or is she a stereotype too?[/QUOTE]...

You are aware that only a single segment of the video was spent discussing the problems that some games have with associating dark skin --> evil and the history behind that association, right?
 

The Wart

Member
Where does Anita stand on Shantae?

Surely she should count as a positive dark-skinned heroine, right? Or is she a stereotype too?

It's hard to argue that she's not a stereotype, but she's not exactly "exotified" in the same way as the characters Anita was talking about because the entire setting is a stereotypical Ariabian Nights pastiche. She's not really being contrasted against other characters who are less exotic.

She's also weirdly sexuallized, but it's hard to say that's related to Shantae being exotic as almost every single female Wayforward character across all their games is weirdly sexualized. Like, why does these cutesy cartoon ladies have gigantic flopping breasts and pants so low that we know they had bikini waxes? But that's a separate can of worms.
 

En-ou

Member
Pointless...pointless.

"Hey, we're making a game for an audience that is mostly male teen/adults,
should we make her outfit like a nun's robe/some full body armour that is realistic or something revealing/sexy? Hmm..which will sell more..."

It's quite obvious the developers develop what will sell. Every other shit is out the window.

Analyzing these and steeping them in political correctness is just plain stupid.

There's a reason why most of you freak out as soon as you hear panties are getting censored from a Japanese game.
 

Budi

Member
Pointless...pointless.

"Hey, we're making a game for an audience that is mostly male teen/adults,
should we make her outfit like a nun's robe/some full body armour that is realistic or something revealing/sexy? Hmm..which will sell more..."

It's quite obvious the developers develop what will sell. Every other shit is out the window.

Analyzing these and steeping them in political correctness is just plain stupid.

There's a reason why most of you freak out as soon as you hear panties are getting censored from a Japanese game.

Is this all what you took from the video? It really wasn't just about flashing panties. And the critique is hardly pointless, developers have already taken note.

I'm not sure but I recall reading an interview with the VA, who is a black woman, though to my shame I don't remember what she said exactly about the whole thing. <.<

http://gameranx.com/features/id/19666/article/an-interview-with-amanda-strawn/ Here's an interview with Amanda Strawn from Human Revolution.
 

aravuus

Member
FC3's story was so fucking hilariously bad I kind of saw it through to the end because it was so mind-boggling. I have to admit I didn't really think much about white saviors or being rewarded with exotic sex back when it came out, so somehow this video managed to make it even worse lol.

It was a hell of a lot of fun, though.
 
Holy hell, I forgot how horrible Far Cry 3's white savoir/tribal woman shit was; must've blocked the plot from my memory. It's good Ubi has been turning around on the these issues, but how did no one at Ubi not see how blatant the stereotypes and tropes in Far Cry 3 were.
Satire my ass.
 

GLAMr

Member
Great video!

I forgot how heinous the FarCry 3 story was. I played through unlocking the whole map and upgrades before tackling the story... I abandoned the game once I started playing through the story.
 
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