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Feminist Frequency: Not Your Exotic Fantasy - Tropes vs. Women in Video Games
- Thread starter lightskintwin
- Start date
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
You do equip bulletproof vest that covers up a lot of skin. Better than tube top Jill.
chaobreaker
Member
Don't know about Lawrence Of Arabia, but the Gerudo definitely have Arabic elements (along with other "exotic" cultures) with deserts, thievery (Forty Thieves), focus on horses, the shield's symbol before it got altered, and clothing like this.
I doubt Aounuma would depict them all that much better in BoTW but fingers crossed. At least there's going to be heroic Gerudo that (hopefully) won't be in perpetual captivity this time around.
Again, really great video. I was really lukewarm on her videos when they started. But I've grown to appreciate these and I especially like when she mentions positive examples. So she isn't only showing what not to do, but also giving props to the good ones. Also maybe because of her videos, I've only in recent years understood how important fair representation in games is.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
looking at the class select I must be missing something because they both look pretty much the same. I don't remember anything regarding the classes being sexualized in the game.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Four Swords Adventures had positive (or at least neutral) depictions of Gerudo
1:
I always assumed that Ganondorf was somewhere from the ME, NEA.
2:
No no, not saying anything about FF video atm. Haven't watched it. In the progress now but wanted to add about the quoted snippet on how it annoys me that people seem to think that we have to be justified to be in a game. I do not think so. We can actually just be and if the devs want to further build on a character then by all means do so but I wouldn't have demanded a reason if Nathan Drake was from Uganda. We got a story and never once did I see the need to justify his skin tone. So yes, I don't see why any video game character of color needs to be justified.
We can just be.
See above.... And fuck, I have the attention span of a gold fish, paused. Wrote this, saw Key & Peele recommendation and pressed it... Now I have to finish this snippet.
_________
Just me or have these videos gotten a lot better since the two first? Know that I at least didn't like the videos even if I agreed with the message.
Edit:
Earlier videos didn't have a lot of POSITIVE examples of the problems she listed. Her videos are working. Don't tell me Watch Dogs 2 and Mafia III producers haven't watched and listened to Sarkeesian in terms of story and representation.
CamHostage
Member
Good point. I imagine it is difficult getting feedback to Sarkeesian since it'd be impossible to get word in above the noise, but if anybody has access, please pass on the suggestion. Since story is important to this docu-series and since ending treatment of female characters is especially interesting to look at (it's a curious phenomenon how often great lady characters are written to fall apart, get kidnapped, or killed as a climax to a game,) it'd be a good service to list which games covered might be spoiled in a video. There's already a list of which games are covered in each video in the blog and video description, an asterisk by games that get late-in-game or critical twist discussions would be helpful to viewers.
So, it's really difficult to talk about female objectification and male objectification in equality since they are not equal in media representation or interest levels, (We could go on and on about whether it's nature or nurture, that men seem to really like looking at ladies' bodies while women seem less interested in looking at guys' bodies and have either an attraction or competitive interest in looking at ladies' bodies, so just by sheer numbers, sexy women sell hamburgers... I think that's my point?) In general, crazy guy outfits are made to look awesome, and crazy lady outfits are made for tongues to loll out of mouths.
When it comes to RE5, I think if you see Sheva and Chris' outfits side by side, you can see that the other "half the point" isn't a half. There's not the racial connotation in outfit design, there's not the sexual fetishism in the design (though the leather outfit is either Mad Max or hard-gay, the latter of which has its own issues to get into,) there's just not as much semiotic meaning that can be found in the choices the designers made. it's not balanced design (and it'd probably be nearly impossible to do so, BTW, so be aware and be critical but don't be repulsively rejective, just encourage awareness and change -- I believe that's the Feminist Frequency takeaway..)
Objetification does not work the same for women and men because we live in a patriarchal society that focus on female sexuality in every ad and tv show, game and everything.
Just equal clothing is not the same to make a male character objectified. Like how you need much more than one non objectified woman in your game so that people can look in the game and don't think you are going by sexists standards
The whole "skin gets darker when the character turns evil" reminds me of the 1931 version of Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde.
Which, uh...
...Yeah...
WrenchNinja
Member
Another great video.
I never got that far into Hyrule Warriors. Mostly because the shitty gameplay, but those designs for the original characters did not help.
I never got that far into Hyrule Warriors. Mostly because the shitty gameplay, but those designs for the original characters did not help.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
im not saying hes objectified, im saying neither are. When theyre wearing armour they're pretty much indistinguishable. Just seemed like an odd example to use.
Yepp, detected no lies. Was a good video and I do so yearn for more games that, if they try, do us justice. We're not always big, muscle bound, hotheads with a fuse shorter than 5mm.
One thing for sure is that I will definitely pick up 1979. Hadn't even heard about the game until now.
I never got that far to bother to check everyone out. Sengoku Basara still remains as the best Musou.
One thing for sure is that I will definitely pick up 1979. Hadn't even heard about the game until now.
I never got that far to bother to check everyone out. Sengoku Basara still remains as the best Musou.
Alex_Mexico
Member
There is no defending that alternate Sheva costume and RE5 has its problems but I wouldn't go that far. Especially when it was initially revealed and showed Chris killing black zombies in Africa and people took it as if it was a white supremacist game about a white dude killing blacks only just because.
Fantastic Anita video as always. I only wish she made them more quickly. Can't wait for what I think is her inevitable evisceration of Metroid Other M's Samus. She's been on the record saying she loved Samus in Metroid Prime so she must have some thoughts about M:OM (God, even the acronym is fucking stupid).
When she mentioned Zelda I assumed she was gonna talk about the gerudo, a race of exoticized brown harem girls or belly dancers (and that on evil man).
Anybody watched the Invisibility Blues video series? It's about race in video games made by a WoC (expect much lower budget though).
Anybody watched the Invisibility Blues video series? It's about race in video games made by a WoC (expect much lower budget though).
Messofanego
Banned
Aww, thanks hehe.
Damn RE5 was a complete mess in terms of racial portrayal :s just wow
The game was first shown off at E3 with her naked on top of the player and doing some exotic sexual ritual.
One of the worst most cringeworthy reveals ever...
The game was first shown off at E3 with her naked on top of the player and doing some exotic sexual ritual.
One of the worst most cringeworthy reveals ever...
Ludger Kresnik
Member
How? They made him buffer and gave him a skintight t-shirt, but that's about all they did. He's never viewed in as sexual a light as Sheva, nor does he have any outfits approaching Tribal or Clubbin' in sexualisation. Besides, if Chris was intentionally sexualised (which I doubt) it doesn't excuse what they pulled with Sheva at all.
chaobreaker
Member
That's not even counting the horrendous depiction of hollering,spear-chucking zombie tribal natives in giant masks in one of the chapters in the game.
Or this one random scene of a random white woman being dragged away by 2 random black parasite zombies.
This is after Capcom took some early criticism of the whole white guy shooting down hordes of black people and added some brown and white people into the generic zombie mix in the final version of the game. They knew they fucked up but still added dumb shit like the Sheva costume and the stuff I listed.
Played this recently and re-read about the issues out of curiousity this scene was a white zombie draging away a white woman btw.
disappeared
Banned
Slowly but surely tides can and will change. Certainly there are more and more attempts being made to portray women and people of color in a more positive light. It's going to take some time of course. Younger generations of game developers will (hopefully) grow up to be more culturally and socially progressive with the characters they design. Gaming is still a relatively young industry and it's just the growing pains of being dominated by a largely white and heterosexual group of people.
That's not what happened. like at at all. Please read this: http://www.mtv.com/news/2456617/new...nt-evil-5-trailer-this-imagery-has-a-history/
You're right. They have a longer history of racial intolerance. Ever heard of the Ainu? There's a reason ivory skin was prized: it meant you were "pure" and devoid of Ainu ancestry, a fact long since forgotten, since even as far back as the founding of feudal Japan, the Ainu were treated like they don't exist, and this has since become thought of as some feudal classism hold over, when it has roots in racial intolerance.
LucidMomentum
Member
The "I Learned How to Fly" part of that game was so good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVJTVxK2-Os
Wolfenstein did an excellent job with its character development, and the women in the game have great roles as well. Anya is a treasure.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I think Capcom knows they kinda fucked up with black people in 5. Why else do they continue to pretend Sheva doesn't exist in RE post 5?
lightskintwin
Banned
Not to mention, let's not act like Western racist stereotype depictions didn't have any impact or influence on later Japanese character design.
The Story of Little Black Sambo was first published in Japan in 1953. Despite it being an unlicensed version of the original using illustrations from Frank Dobias and depicting Sambo as an African boy rather than as an Indian boy, "The book is beloved in Japan and is not considered controversial there, but it was subject to copyright infringement". The book was pulled in 1988 after copyright issues and a American anti-racism against Blacks campaign were raised.
In 2005, the book was reprinted in Japan and became a bestseller.
Once Shunned as Racist, Storybook Bestseller in Japan
As usual, great video.
Well, he became a gay bara icon after RE5 so... yeah. And it seems Capcom has been riding on the popularity after the initial RE5 release, what's with the Warrior (BDSM) costume in RE5 PC/Gold release, the Sailor costume in Revelations and half-naked samurai in RE6 (his unused costumes depicted in the RE6 art book also looked very interesting).
However, Chris still has nothing on Sheva with her tribal costume and the fairytale costume.
Well, he became a gay bara icon after RE5 so... yeah. And it seems Capcom has been riding on the popularity after the initial RE5 release, what's with the Warrior (BDSM) costume in RE5 PC/Gold release, the Sailor costume in Revelations and half-naked samurai in RE6 (his unused costumes depicted in the RE6 art book also looked very interesting).
However, Chris still has nothing on Sheva with her tribal costume and the fairytale costume.
You sure, can't find any trailer that shows that stuff?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Great video, would throw in TLoU and UC4 as another positive example.
You have sources for the assertion that ivory skin preferences are related to Ainu hatred? And how does that explain the preference in Korea, China, or Vietnam?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Yeah, the Cia/Lana thing in Hyrule Warriors was dumb as shit
From the get-go, the characters are presented as the douchiest fucking idiots, and you think for a moment that they're playing this up ironically or something. And then... no. No they are being 100% straight with this. And it's dumb. And it's awful. And...ffffjfhsjajsjaja
Red Liquorice
Member
What the fuck at everything about Far Cry 3. These type of games don't appeal to me at all, so this is the first time I've seen anything about the content of this game beyond it beyond it being an FPS (or so I thought).
Who comes up with this stuff, do they have horny 12 year old boys in their board rooms? This is pathetic.
Who comes up with this stuff, do they have horny 12 year old boys in their board rooms? This is pathetic.
you'll probably be surprised at the average age of FPS players
Yay at Never Alone and 1979 Revolution getting some recognition. Bibi in 1979 Revolution is a pretty cool character.
1979 was such an underrated game. Bibi was indeed an interesting character.
I love the game for its gameplay, but I never did finish it.
1) Because of what's brought up in this video.
2) Because the game takes itself far too seriously. There's barely any hints of irony in the whole thing and there really, really needs to be. (DISCLAIMER: If there is, I don't remember it.)
3) Because they
kill off the better villain halfway through the game
Messofanego
Banned
The writer for Far Cry 3, Jeffrey Yohalem, is a piece of work. He bounced back with Child Of Light, but man I bet he'd still defend Far Cry 3's weird racist and and dumb story, calling it satire. RockPaperShotgun's Far Cry 3 interview with him is legendary.
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/12/19/far-cry-3s-jeffrey-yohalem-on-racism-torture-and-satire/
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
He's also a huge fan of Anita. lol
Messofanego
Banned
Far Cry 3 E3 2012
Not only is it an awkward opening of having sex with the protagonist but it's preceded by a black woman, Aisha Tyler, introducing it.
Far Cry 3 E3 2012
Not only is it an awkward opening of having sex with the protagonist but it's preceded by a black woman, Aisha Tyler, introducing it.
He's a fine person, but man his views on just Far Cry 3 are like...weird. It's like when you have a barely explained and bad story in a movie and you have fans trying to justify every crap thing by making convoluted reasoning just so they can feel good about defending it.
Scofield94941
Member
I liked the far cry 3 ending and story. Making that choice at the end was really cool. Kind of reminded me of Avatar
WrenchNinja
Member
I usually skip the Ubisoft press conferences after their Laser tag and Mr. Caffeine shitshows but holy shit, this is really bad