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Fez's dev to japanese developers: "your games just suck"

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EternalGamer

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Nov 6, 2006
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Way to remind me of that awful podcast segment. He was the only person in the room that day who didn’t bend over to take their corporate shilling.
Problem is, gamers are so used to hearing corporate shills with banal, vanilla marketing speak that they can't handle people who don't give a fuck about shilling.

Fish comes off as a dick, without a doubt. Couldn't matter to me less in terms of whether or not I buy his game. A lot of the greatet artists in the world also have big egos and bad personalities.

Maybe if he said or did something that I thought was truly offensive like make racist or misogynistic comments, but I don't need to share all a devs beliefs nor do I need him to lick otaku or corporate asshole.
 

Castor Krieg

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Dec 5, 2007
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Seriously, Phil, if you have something to say about Japanese game design of the last couple of years, then go for it. I'm sure you have valid points as well. But don't expect anyone to accept this attitude. It's just not working for anyone.
The guy didn't even ship a single game. His opinion about Japanese game design is as relevant as that of people posting on various forums.

Fish comes off as a dick, without a doubt. Couldn't matter to me less in terms of whether or not I buy his game. A lot of the greatet artists in the world also have big egos and bad personalities.
Why is it always Juniors that come up with shit like that? Yes, a lot of artists are douche bags as well, which is why I don't buy their stuff. And going by the comments in this thread - a lot of Neogaf members won't as well.
 

EternalGamer

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Nov 6, 2006
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Yep, never going to support someone that douchy.
Buying a game is not charity. People w belief it s under,one the idea of real charity. You should never buy any game to "support" someone. You should buy games because they are good.

If you want to support someone, become a big brother or donate monthly to a child in Africa. Those are people who need "support."

Stop thinking that you are doing good in the world when you are buying fucking videogames. Videogames have nothing at all to do with supporting a good cause. Ever.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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If you put yourself out there in the public domain, you better be ready to deal with criticism, it comes with the territory.
The problem I find is that I'm reading these statements that spend so much time propping things up to get angry at and knock down, yet these things are assumptions and broad generalizations, as well. Yes, it's a public figure who will likely get to act as lightning rod for all of which they supposedly represent. It just seems ridiculous that there's been so much energy thrown into loads of, really, nothing aside from the lack of tact and heaping of abrasiveness, perhaps.

Me, I'm going to buy this game if I like the demo. My money goes toward the creator for their product, not their personal opinion or attitude.
 

milesdm

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Apr 18, 2011
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Who else has worked on the game and what have they done? What exactly is Phil's role in the creation of this game?
Fish and Renaud Bédard are the core two guys. Phil did the art and design, Renaud did the engine and programming.

Other guys: Rich Vreeland (aka Disasterpiece) for the soundtrack, Brandon McCartin for the sounds, and Paul Robertson & Adam Saltsman (aka Adamatomic) for animations.


This is still a dumb thread.
 

Alucrid

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May 30, 2009
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Buying a game is not charity. People w belief it s under,one the idea of real charity. You should never buy any game to "support" someone. You should buy games because they are good.

If you want to support someone, become a big brother or donate monthly to a child in Africa. Those are people who need "support."

Stop thinking that you are doing good in the world when you are buying fucking videogames. Videogames have nothing at all to do with supporting a good cause. Ever.
You're an idiot. You buy games to support devs so that they can recoup losses spent on developing the game, this is especially true for indie games. Also, yeah, no proceeds of games have ever gone to child's play or anything like that.

Why you equate supporting a developer by buying their game with charity is beyond me.
 

Curufinwe

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May 20, 2009
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You realise the game is going to be big, the Frisco media are in love with this prick. He'll get multiple download game of the year awards.
I wonder if the Giant Bomb guys who were so interested in the recent controversy about demeaning language in the fighting game community will talk about Fish's oral rape comments on Twitter.

I really like that Jonathan Blow articulates his gripes with modern Japanese games, and I agree for the most part.

Anyway, what everyone should take away from the GS interview is that he makes valid points, backs them up with clear arguments, doesn't insult anyone along the way, really just analyzes what's in front of him without the big "fuck you" splash that really makes it hard to deal with people like Phil Fish.
The main problem with Blow's argument is that his gripes also apply to modern Western games, but he singles out Japanese games due to his ignorance.

http://www.360magazine.co.uk/general/top-five-most-hand-holding-games-this-generation/
 

Alucrid

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May 30, 2009
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I wonder if the Giant Bomb guys who were so interested in the recent controversy about demeaning language in the fighting game community will talk about Fish's oral rape comments on Twitter.
Yep, his dick comment has a nice twinge of misogyny in it.
 

EternalGamer

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Nov 6, 2006
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The guy didn't even ship a single game. His opinion about Japanese game design is as relevant as that of people posting on various forums.



Why is it always Juniors that come up with shit like that? Yes, a lot of artists are douche bags as well, which is why I don't buy their stuff. And going by the comments in this thread - a lot of Neogaf members won't as well.
Then alot of members of Neogaf have tragically confused buying videogames with expressing their voice or, even worse, with the idea of helping someone.

I could understand if the game was produced in a way that exploited workers or created massive pollution, but I doubt these same people care much about that.

Instead, they only care when someone says something they disagreed with and their idea of responding is through denying a consumer purchase. Its the saddest conceptualization of a political voice I've ever heard.

If you want to protest something, protest something real. Not a rude comment some dude who made a videogames made. If you want to support a cause, go find a real one. Videogames are not about causes. They are rarely about anything meaningful. They are about consumerism and entertainment. These should not be confused with things that are important.
 

Suzzopher

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Jul 23, 2009
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I wonder if the Giant Bomb guys who were so interested in the recent controversy about demeaning language in the fighting game community will talk about Fish's oral rape comments on Twitter.
No chance, hasn't Klepek been laughing along with Fish on twitter? No one will take him to task in the Frisco media over his arrogant behaviour.

But they shouldn't be taking the game to task for his comments either.
 

Mister Saturn

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Sep 1, 2011
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I'd be disappointed to see folks like GB, and particularly 8-4, defend the guy's behavior, but would not be surprised in the least.
 
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Why is it always Juniors that come up with shit like that? Yes, a lot of artists are douche bags as well, which is why I don't buy their stuff. And going by the comments in this thread - a lot of Neogaf members won't as well.
I took a stance against Chair hiring Orson Scott Card for the plot/book tie in with Shadow Complex, Especially when they just tried to shrug it off. Never bought it, never played it. Still sold a tonne.

Fish will loose sales over this behaviour. But not enough of them to make a difference. We're the thin end of the wedge. A lot of people will just see "Oooh pretty" and a low price on XBLA.

We've all been praising the outlets that wrote about the fighting community sexism outrage, but even then, it's easy to write about who is basically some unknown chap. How many articles will we see from the gaming press criticising Fish, or even reporting on the news?

Saying that, due to his attitude, I shan't be putting money in that mans pocket.
 

BHZ Mayor

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Oct 31, 2011
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Someone please answer this question since nobody has done this in this thread every single time I've asked: what is this "antiquated game design" that people think is so present in Japanese games? Is it the fact that the game doesn't play itself and simplify everything for the lowest common denominator?
At the risk of sounding like an ignoramus, maybe "antiquated" in this case means less streamling of gameplay elements, and less focus on presentation/production values than big budget western games.
 

wolfmat

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It just seems ridiculous that there's been so much energy thrown into loads of, really, nothing aside from the lack of tact and heaping of abrasiveness, perhaps.
So much energy? I myself am just sitting here typing in a forum thread when I'm annoyed with work. If it weren't this thread, it'd be some other thread. This isn't really an amazing feat. What do you think we're doing here, one backflip per letter?
 

Castor Krieg

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Dec 5, 2007
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Then alot of members of Neogaf have tragically confused buying videogames with expressing their voice or, even worse, with the idea of helping someone.
Wait, why would I want to help a guy that turned out to be a jerk? Explain to me how this works.

Also, I would say buying products is very often associated with expressing your opinions. You agree with something product represents - you buy it.
 

Danielsan

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Feb 18, 2007
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You're an idiot. You buy games to support devs so that they can recoup losses spent on developing the game, this is especially true for indie games. Also, yeah, no proceeds of games have ever gone to child's play or anything like that.
Que?
I usually just buy games because I’m interested in the product and want to play it. Supporting the developer is more often than not left out of the equation unless the developer is particularly noteworthy to me.
 

Clear

Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
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I think he is the designer and there is another guy coding the game.
And then there are the artists, the biz-dev guys, and no doubt plenty of help from MS as they've had the project signed for quite some time.

June 2011 interview


Seriously, with the amount of time and support he's had on this thing it ought to be good. But he's not in the same league as someone like Eeskil Steenberg (Love).
 

Big-E

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Nov 16, 2006
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Then alot of members of Neogaf have tragically confused buying videogames with expressing their voice or, even worse, with the idea of helping someone.

I could understand if the game was produced in a way that exploited workers or created massive pollution, but I doubt these same people care much about that.

Instead, they only care when someone says something they disagreed with and their idea of responding is through denying a consumer purchase. Its the saddest conceptualization of a political voice I've ever heard.

If you want to protest something, protest something real. Not a rude comment some dude who made a videogames made. If you want to support a cause, go find a real one. Videogames are not about causes. They are rarely about anything meaningful. They are about consumerism and entertainment. These should not be confused with things that are important.
This makes no sense. The "support" people give to develops is to ensure that those developers get some money on their work so that they can one day down the road create another thing that interests the consumer. To turn that into your grandiose claims is so off the mark that you are as far away to having a coherent point as Phil Fish is to having tact.
 

Mister Saturn

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Sep 1, 2011
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So much energy? I myself am just sitting here typing in a forum thread when I'm annoyed with work. If it weren't this thread, it'd be some other thread. This isn't really an amazing feat. What do you think we're doing here, one backflip per letter?
You have to admit it's more energy than he has put into being respectful towards others and finishing his game.
 
Oct 16, 2009
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Buying a game is not charity. People w belief it s under,one the idea of real charity. You should never buy any game to "support" someone. You should buy games because they are good.

If you want to support someone, become a big brother or donate monthly to a child in Africa. Those are people who need "support."

Stop thinking that you are doing good in the world when you are buying fucking videogames. Videogames have nothing at all to do with supporting a good cause. Ever.
O hi fish!
 

EternalGamer

Banned
Nov 6, 2006
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You're an idiot. You buy games to support devs so that they can recoup losses spent on developing the game, this is especially true for indie games. Also, yeah, no proceeds of games have ever gone to child's play or anything like that.
.
Maybe you buy games to "support developers "and "help the developer recoup losses.". I do not. I maintain that is a dumb thing to do. I buy games because I thing that particular game is good.

Maybe sometimes If it is good enough I hope the dev makes enough to make more games which I may also want to buy, but my goal is never to support a developer. They are not starving childer in Africa. They are someone with whom I have a potential business transaction.

I no more intend to support a developer by buying games from than I intend to support Shell or B.P. when I buy gas.
 

FStop7

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Castor Krieg

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"Way to destroy your reputation without shipping a single game!" is the comment that @CrowTGamer made.

I'd say that's more a statement of fact than an insult. He is absolutely destroying his rep. Though his game will be out soon enough.
I said that! :p Then promptly logged out not to read what that douche no doubt replied.
 

Rabbit Clock

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Jul 15, 2011
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"Way to destroy your reputation without shipping a single game!" is the comment that @CrowTGamer made.

I'd say that's more a statement of fact than an insult. He is absolutely destroying his rep. Though his game will be out soon enough.
Naww.. he called him a Schmuck. You must of skipped over that part.

Anyways, I don't care if a dood who made the game's a dick. I'm buying it because it looks rad. Seems pretty simple to me.
 

Tain

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I usually just buy games because I’m interested in the product and want to play it. Supporting the developer is more often than not left out of the equation unless the developer is particularly noteworthy to me.
Yeah. My enjoyment is more important to me than sending or not sending the industry a $10-$60 message.
 

Krauser Kat

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That twitter poster is fucking shit head. There only way to respond to that is block the person and say nothing. I dont fault him for his response.
 

Mister Saturn

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Maybe you buy games to "support developers "and "help the developer recoup losses.". I do not. I maintain that is a dumb thing to do. I buy games because I thing that particular game is good.

Maybe sometimes If it is good enough I hope the dev makes enough to make more games which I may also want to buy, but my goal is never to support a developer. They are not starving childer in Africa. They are someone with whom I have a potential business transaction.

I no more intend to support a developer by buying games from than I intend to support Shell or B.P. when I buy gas.
Well that's just ridiculous. They aren't starving, but if the games they make that you like don't get the appropriate support, they won't be able to continue making those games that you like. Seriously, you aren't understanding this?
 
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No chance, hasn't Klepek been laughing along with Fish on twitter? No one will take him to task in the Frisco media over his arrogant behaviour.

But they shouldn't be taking the game to task for his comments either.
I saw one tweet from Klepek when someone enquired about him writing a story stating that "Phil says what Phil says". He doesn't see a story there. I'd bet that this growing thread & backlash won't be cherry picked as a story by any of the major outlets.
 
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What do you think we're doing here, one backflip per letter?
Actually, yeah. I kinda imagined exactly that for many posts in this thread given the phrasing and labeling/name-calling used. That, or some tense, hunched-over key drilling accompanied by half-breathed cussing. (This thread just seems unusually large and quickly-built for the base content.)
 

Alucrid

Banned
May 30, 2009
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Then alot of members of Neogaf have tragically confused buying videogames with expressing their voice or, even worse, with the idea of helping someone.

I could understand if the game was produced in a way that exploited workers or created massive pollution, but I doubt these same people care much about that.

Instead, they only care when someone says something they disagreed with and their idea of responding is through denying a consumer purchase. Its the saddest conceptualization of a political voice I've ever heard.

If you want to protest something, protest something real. Not a rude comment some dude who made a videogames made. If you want to support a cause, go find a real one. Videogames are not about causes. They are rarely about anything meaningful. They are about consumerism and entertainment. These should not be confused with things that are important.
Are you ten years old? Is English not your first language? Have you recently suffered head trauma? Those are the only situations where I could look at your post and go "yeah, that makes sense. "
 

EternalGamer

Banned
Nov 6, 2006
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Are you ten years old? Is English not your first language? Have you recently suffered head trauma? Those are the only situations where I could look at your post and go "yeah, that makes sense. "
Sorry you have trouble comprehending me. Maybe I need more .gifs.
 

FStop7

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Jan 8, 2009
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Naww.. he called him a Schmuck. You must of skipped over that part.

Anyways, I don't care if a dood who made the game's a dick. I'm buying it because it looks rad. Seems pretty simple to me.
I see now. It was @CastorKrieg who made the reputation comment and @CrowTGamer who called him a shmuck and said he was arrogant. Well the arrogant part is certainly a statement of fact but yes, the comment was clearly intended as an insult.
 

TommyT

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Oh man, his game better be good.

Why is it always Juniors that come up with shit like that? Yes, a lot of artists are douche bags as well, which is why I don't buy their stuff. And going by the comments in this thread - a lot of Neogaf members won't as well.
:lol what people say and do are often two different things?
 

Krauser Kat

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He's like the Chris Brown of videogames.
What the fuck. You are equating a person who assaulted someone to a person who was asked and question on a panel and gave a douchey answer. One of them did something wrong the other is just trying to deal with the whole internet being butt hurt over nothing.
 

Alucrid

Banned
May 30, 2009
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Maybe you buy games to "support developers "and "help the developer recoup losses.". I do not. I maintain that is a dumb thing to do. I buy games because I thing that particular game is good.

Maybe sometimes If it is good enough I hope the dev makes enough to make more games which I may also want to buy, but my goal is never to support a developer. They are not starving childer in Africa. They are someone with whom I have a potential business transaction.

I no more intend to support a developer by buying games from than I intend to support Shell or B.P. when I buy gas.
If you buy a game because it's good, even though you don't want to you're still supporting the developer by buying that game.
 

Big-E

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Nov 16, 2006
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What the fuck. You are equating a person who assaulted someone to a person who was asked and question on a panel and gave a douchey answer. One of them did something wrong the other is just trying to deal with the whole internet being butt hurt over nothing.
I think he is talking about the fact that I think Chris Brown wrote on twitter something like "I won a Grammy, fuck off". If he was equating that, then it makes sense, but obviously the offense you mentioned shouldn't be equated.
 
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