To Far Away Times
Member
It came out after Tekken Tag and felt like a step backwards.
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FGC GAF, so what was wrong with TEKKEN 4 ?
- Thread starter Xpliskin
- Start date
I don't see what the issue was with the position throw game. It provided more options which is what I always love. And it still lives on with Steve while being one of the funnest setups to execute with the character. Maybe a better implementation could have been where it doesn't need to be generic for everyone and it could be something unique for each of the cast. Much harder to balance but it'll be something new
Uneven floors could have been implemented better. Dead or Alive 5 manages it without it breaking the game. But alas it only provided a very marginal influence on the gameplay so it's not that big of a deal for me if it stays or goes.
The pillar broke the game, but there's nothing wrong with the terrain deforming throughout the fight. Things like the phone booths in Shinjuku were fine. It technically still carries on in the series since they're functionally the same as wall breaks, balcony breaks, etc.
Regardless, the main thing for me is that they stopped adding new game changing mechanics to the series and are just making tweaks to the system rather than overhauling it. But I've talked about this aspect way too much in the OT that it depressed me and I'd rather not get into it...
I see matches like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBi7v5Cf_s8
And I just want to see a new Tekken that fundamentally plays brand new again. Stop trying to tinker with the current system. Tekken Tag 2 is incredible and I can always play that if I want my fill of this era of Tekken.
But Smash Bros. is a fighting game.
Not dumb, just don't work with Tekken's movement. All of the stuff you say re: T4's stages is done, and was done better, way back in DoA2 and continues to be done in DoA today.
Derail incoming
sixteen-bit
Member
Jin was 2 good
That's not 100% true.
T5 retained T4's fluid side movement and walls, although it did revert to easier air launches (T4 was way harder to launch)
Tekken 4 is a great fighting game by any measure. It's just slightly disappointing compared to 2, 3 and 5. Compared to pretty much any other 3D fighter out around that time it was exceptional. I don't know why all the hate to be honest. For me it had the best movement in the series.
Favourite Tekken games:
Balance: 5, 4, 3, 2 (many characters in 2 felt weak compared to the top bracket)
Roster: 5, 2, 3, 4
Command list: I'm not sure what this is for since the games all share the same command lists
Fun gameplay: 5, 2, 4, 3 (the change to the guard system from 2 to 3 makes me put 3 last)
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Position change throws are beyond dumb. Regular throws & throw breaks already can change positions in Tekken now.
Uneven surfaces & stage barriers have no place in fighting games. They bring nothing to the game but potential problems. God this reminds me of that MMA league Yamma Pit Fighting that thought it'd be a good idea to have a slop on the edges on the cage. Let that shit stay in DOA & party games.
Uneven surfaces & stage barriers have no place in fighting games. They bring nothing to the game but potential problems. God this reminds me of that MMA league Yamma Pit Fighting that thought it'd be a good idea to have a slop on the edges on the cage. Let that shit stay in DOA & party games.
Since when is DOA not a fighting game?
I'm curious about your opinion, this is before I took Tekken seriously. Why not have both current throws & position change while giving the cast command throws to compensate for the 1+3 input like how Jin got qcb+1+3?
Ame
Member
I think this was the biggest complaint the Tekken community had with T4, at least with the people I played with. I remember playing the Arena and Beach stage a lot because of this.
The Faceless Master
Member
pretty much sums it up.
yes, the nit level on moves could change based on slope.
The Lone Dragon
Member
Answer to thread title: Nothing that couldn't have been fixed with new versions...you know, like every other Tekken game got.
T4 will forever be a lost opportunity due to overreaction and lack of conviction.
That was the last time the series really evolved in a meaningful way IMO, even if it had problems. It's not like other vanilla Tekken sequels didn't have problems, too.
I loved the lack of emphasis on juggles and more emphasis on ground game. I loved how Kazuya felt to play. Fix the broken crap, and it could have been on to something really interesting.
T4 will forever be a lost opportunity due to overreaction and lack of conviction.
That was the last time the series really evolved in a meaningful way IMO, even if it had problems. It's not like other vanilla Tekken sequels didn't have problems, too.
I loved the lack of emphasis on juggles and more emphasis on ground game. I loved how Kazuya felt to play. Fix the broken crap, and it could have been on to something really interesting.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Soundtrack and intro movie was incredible. Endings good too. But hey, let's get moving here with the intro movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruEPZqFpjY
The darker tone was dope as fuck, and the music was dope as fuck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlSkIzTJ9UY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nruEPZqFpjY
The darker tone was dope as fuck, and the music was dope as fuck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlSkIzTJ9UY
fudgey_lumpkins
Member
I'm not very technical about fighting games by any means but if you have ever played a Tekken game prior to 4 or after for that matter, you can immediately feel that something's not right.
No, it's not that bad. It's not a jab, and there's no way to get instadeath off of it that I know of (barring maybe a wall infinite I've never seen). It's just a really safe and pretty easy 3-way mixup to free juggle.
If the first hit of the laser scraper hits, he gets full damage from it and the juggle. If they block the first two hits he can either do the third hit immediately, hold it down for about 2 seconds to make it unblockable, or hold it for about 1 second until the very moment Jin's fist starts to glow and let it go and he gets the unblockable without quite as much delay (JFLS). The trick here is the only real way to stop JFLS is to jab him out of it, but if he doesn't delay at all you'll get launched when you try to jab him. If you want to see if he delays or not, you can then try to interrupt him but if he does JFLS instead of full delay and you waited to long you'll get launched. So yeah, it's a terrible mixup to face, and you have to deal with it every damn time he does laser scraper. This on top of the fact that he's really damn good in every other way.
As a competitive Kaz player at that time, I developed a quasi-escape for it: Kaz's unblockables put him in an immediate knockdown state if he's hit. You can block the first few hits and do b+1+4, if he does JFLS you get hit but NOT launched and deal with his okizeme, if he does full delay the unblockable counter hits him! It's not a good escape since you guarantee you'll get hit by his first two options, but at least you take less damage. It's good to do when you're lower on life than he is.
This is all IIRC, I haven't played much competitively since around when T5 came out; ive literally forgotten more about Tekken than some people ever knew lol.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Steve still has it. How often is it used? It's not worth putting in the game at all. Like I said plenty of throws have the ability to wall splat & change position on break or hit in a varity of ways. Adding in a universal feature that has minor utility at best is a waste of time.
Remember T4 didn't have unique throw break animations yet. That was added in Tekken 5. The idea behind the position throw was to allow a cornered fighter an option to escape the wall. Tekken 5's system is more intuitive & give uniquness to character's options instead a watered down homaginizes universal system.
"You do not have a god given right to get off the..." wall.
joey_bone_bomb
Member
Nina not being part of the initial cast of characters but instead a time release character, obviously
thelastword
Banned
Tekken 4 was a very solid game, there was just a lot of overreaction from persons coming from Tekken 3. I really like the direction it took, thought it had some of the best stages seen yet and the moves were very impactful. The problem is people hate change and like to keep on-going formulas ad nauseum. People always say the guy on the box (Jin Kazama) was overpowered, but how is that different to any other fighter on debut, there's always a member of the cast people feel are too overbearing Vanilla Sf4, Injustice, Mk9, Mk10, the list goes on........ Personally, I don't think it was a situation where anybody could just pick Jin and win, so yes (gross overreaction).
What I liked most was the stage impact/interactions, hit detection and the visceral-nature of those hits through audio, of course that combined with some of the best stage graphics I had seen at the time...(that water and those tree textures in the forest level....). It also introduced some interesting characters, my favourite being Craig Marduk, but there's no forgetting Christie Monteiro and Steve Fox, two very likeable and popular characters also.
I wish the Tekken team would have expanded on their vision for Tekken 4 and not give in to persons crying about un-even stages and balance issues (Jin mostly). There is absolutely no fighting game that's perfectly balanced at launch, there's always a character that will garner some early success.... people will use and abuse certain moves and opponents who don't know how to counter and cope will complain and cry foul. These characters may not even be all that overpowered in many circumstances, it's just that some people don't like losing (even in a new game)......
Just look at the SF5 tournament at E3, everybody was saying that birdie was overpowered because a certain birdie player was enjoying some success (consecutive wins in convincing fashion), then Justin came in, made some adjustments with his Bison and he took the tournament. It's par for the course in many circumstances, but I wish we'd see a Tekken 4-2 someday.
What I liked most was the stage impact/interactions, hit detection and the visceral-nature of those hits through audio, of course that combined with some of the best stage graphics I had seen at the time...(that water and those tree textures in the forest level....). It also introduced some interesting characters, my favourite being Craig Marduk, but there's no forgetting Christie Monteiro and Steve Fox, two very likeable and popular characters also.
I wish the Tekken team would have expanded on their vision for Tekken 4 and not give in to persons crying about un-even stages and balance issues (Jin mostly). There is absolutely no fighting game that's perfectly balanced at launch, there's always a character that will garner some early success.... people will use and abuse certain moves and opponents who don't know how to counter and cope will complain and cry foul. These characters may not even be all that overpowered in many circumstances, it's just that some people don't like losing (even in a new game)......
Just look at the SF5 tournament at E3, everybody was saying that birdie was overpowered because a certain birdie player was enjoying some success (consecutive wins in convincing fashion), then Justin came in, made some adjustments with his Bison and he took the tournament. It's par for the course in many circumstances, but I wish we'd see a Tekken 4-2 someday.
I'm a Steve player and use it whenever I get the chance to. It's extremely useful.
Didn't Steve's 1,2,1 stun on block? I'm surprised so few people mentioned Steve's broken-ness in this thread.
I felt the same way, and I was never a fan of walls
Maybe because he was not as strong as T5 Steve.
ugh_the_boot
Banned
Heihachi wearing nappies.
It tried to change the formula too much, and also that uneven terrain fucked up the game.
I still think it has the best opening and best overall design in the series.
I still think it has the best opening and best overall design in the series.
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
Low key shade at DOA and Smash?
You know, you're talking about an entirely different generation here. The era before internet updates, people generally just adapted and found out ways to deal with issues. SSF2T has plenty of dumb shit, Third Strike has a lot of dumb shit, even Tekken 3 and Tag 1 had dumb shit (running 3 into whatever usually comboed for instance in Tekken 3). All of them had worthwhile gameplay, though.
With Tekken especially: it's not a minor thing that a huge part of the player base decides to instead play the previous title because they're not satisfied with the current one. It means the developer has fucked up royally. If people did that more often, you'd be seeing way more players of Tekken 5 DR or 6.
To be fair, I really think the series should at least try some new things graphically if they're only doing minor tweaks to gameplay. But claiming it's an overreaction that people didn't like the gameplay of 4 is a bit much.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
You use it near the wall for the wall splat. A function plenty of other throws can do & with better results. You never use it in open ground. It has poor utlity. If Steve had normal a wall splat throw like Lee for example, he'd have a move with far more use in other situations.
Come on man....the wall push does not function properly.
Series lost me some with 3, and completely with 4. Correct or not, I always had felt Tekken was a strait forward fighting game with some mysticism involved, but a minimum of crap like ranged attacks and weapons. Most button mashing worked ok, but you needed to really learn most characters to do well with them. What started with Baek and Gordo seemed to spread like a disease and it became almost normal to just mash buttons and throttle the d-pad to make characters go nuts. I am sure this will be pointed out as flat wrong, but that is how it made me feel. Hopefully the new one will get back to its roots.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I liked people doing that; breakin' legs and ankles all day err day with Nina and King.
Lee Chaolan
Member
I loved it, because Lee was OP in it. 
Even if Jin was even more broken.
Mr. Pointy
Member
Too much broken shit unfortunately. But it's had good potential and great atmosphere.
I do wish Namco would try to innovate more for T8. Because as much as I like T5 and TTT2, I can't give any fucks about T7.
I do wish Namco would try to innovate more for T8. Because as much as I like T5 and TTT2, I can't give any fucks about T7.
Basically it tried too hard to be different and some of the changes/balancing made the game less competitive
Wall combos got silly and I'm sure there were plenty of wall infinites
The universal "position change" throw was useless 95% of the time
Highs whiffed when the opponent was on the lower side of an inclined stage
Certain moves broke the balance at a time before online patches were a thing
Tons of fun though, seriously. I adore Tekken 4
I don't think we'll ever get another Tekken game with T4's level of audiovisual presentation
Wall combos got silly and I'm sure there were plenty of wall infinites
The universal "position change" throw was useless 95% of the time
Highs whiffed when the opponent was on the lower side of an inclined stage
Certain moves broke the balance at a time before online patches were a thing
Tons of fun though, seriously. I adore Tekken 4
I don't think we'll ever get another Tekken game with T4's level of audiovisual presentation
Nothing per se apart from balance issues. It's imo the best Tekken out of the bunch. I clocked in over 1000 hours in this game. Had the best "tone" of the characters. Tekken 4 Paul is the best Paul. I dunno why they felt the need to make him a joke character later on again. The cast is also reasonably small (maybe a bit too small), which is actually a good thing, since all characters have new moves and animations. Since Tekken 4, the series is pretty stagnant apart from bullshit additions like rage and bound mechanisms. Every Tekken game after 4 just became more and more "bloated", both character wise AND move wise. They literally copy animations and just add a few new moves. Tekken needs LESS content, not more. It's time for a purge. Tekken 4 was optimal here imo. Best mix of old and new.
Paul's new hairstyle in T4 was also pretty goat.
I still watch Paul's Tekken 4 ending regularly and I get goosebumps every fucking time.
Paul is the reason why I always play Brawler type of characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8MED6fqPk
Been playing Paul since 1995/6 and made the arguably low-tier character even work in SFxT.
*cough*
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discuss...-good-workout-paul-combos-and-framedata-v2013
http://forums.shoryuken.com/categories/paul
I miss Tekken 4. I was a die hard Tekken fan, but stopped playing with Tekken 6 after that turned out to be a total turd.
Paul's new hairstyle in T4 was also pretty goat.
I still watch Paul's Tekken 4 ending regularly and I get goosebumps every fucking time.
Paul is the reason why I always play Brawler type of characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8MED6fqPk
Been playing Paul since 1995/6 and made the arguably low-tier character even work in SFxT.
*cough*
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discuss...-good-workout-paul-combos-and-framedata-v2013
http://forums.shoryuken.com/categories/paul
I miss Tekken 4.
I was a die hard Tekken fan, but stopped playing with Tekken 6 after that turned out to be a total turd.T4 serious Paul is the best Paul
T4 self-loathing Jin is the best Jin
T4 Xiaoyu is the most tolerable Xiaoyu
T4 shades Kazuya is the best Kazuya
T4 Heihachi is the best Heihachi if you ignore the diaper
T4 Lee was BY FAR the best Lee
T4 Marduk was the only non-joke Marduk and now T7 got rid of him
T4 Kuma had a shirt
T4 King had HAIR
T4 Combot is the best Mokujin
and they ditched it all.
T4 self-loathing Jin is the best Jin
T4 Xiaoyu is the most tolerable Xiaoyu
T4 shades Kazuya is the best Kazuya
T4 Heihachi is the best Heihachi if you ignore the diaper
T4 Lee was BY FAR the best Lee
T4 Marduk was the only non-joke Marduk and now T7 got rid of him
T4 Kuma had a shirt
T4 King had HAIR
T4 Combot is the best Mokujin
and they ditched it all.
And now, over a decade later, they're still too scared to try that again.
NEXT LEVEL DIAPER, GOD TIER
TTT a tough act to follow, significant reduction in # of playable characters, position switch "throw" was useless for many characters but all characters had it, uneven ground, a few very OP characters, wall mechanic needed major work, going from all infinite stages to no infinite stages.
T5 fixed all of this and it just got better from there. T6's bound was questionable for some but TTT2/Unlimited refined it. Tekken Unlimited was beyond fantastic and I can't wait to try 7.
Soltype
Member
There were a lot of problems that could have been fixed and some that couldn't.The game's core systems while better were much different than previous titles and put emphasis on different things.It's sort of like how 3S is in comparison to SF2, they have some similar mechanics, but the games play differently.There were some problems with the terrain/ environmental stuff, which should have been optional.The biggest problem for me with the game was balance, but they could have fixed it in the next game.I do wish they had improved on T4's base, all the titles since would have benefited from it.
BigBadShamoo
Banned
Jin's default outfit in T7 is this now.
Not his shirtless, fire pants and gloved outfit anymore.
RelentlessRolento
Member
I just wish they kept going with the darker story. It's more "pop" feeling nowadays.
a few characters = / = the entire roster
Compared to what came before and after it (Tekken 3 & 5), the movement in T4 is just stilted, the characters were lacking (Marduk and Steve Fox only rock in later iterations IMO) and worse of all, unlike all other Tekken games with badass boss, the endboss of T4 have you fighting Heihatchi wearing a sumo diaper.
Rating - 0/10
Rating - 0/10
Out of interest, why is T5 considered a step back? I've only played Tekken casually but this stuff is interesting
It's not. Tekken 5 is incredible and what 4 should have been.
Triple Da G.O.D!
Member
There was nothing wrong with the game in concept. In action, all that came from it put the series in the weird place it finds itself now.
Laser Scraper and those infinites put it competitively in a weird place too. You either picked Jin or juggle your foe across the screen with no hope of ever seeing the ground again.
Position Change and the stages were awesome additions. It gave players more to consider and think about when taking in all the possibilities. I know I'm in the minority on the subject but time has a way of making you appreciate what you don't have.
I thought it was great the the series wanted to evolve in such a huge way and 4 could've been the foundation for the series to keep doing such.
It strikes me as weird when people try to look at the leap from Tag 1 to 4 when it doesn't really matter too much. Tag 1 was the celebration of the first 3 and more of a stop gap for what T4 would try to do. Kind of like how Dream Match games in KoF separate one saga from another.
Instead T5 dialed it back huge and that's what the series has built upon since then instead.
T7's dialed the roster back to a reasonable size and is trying its damnedest to become a lot more accessible than the series has been in a very long time and I commend that.
Don't forget, games after T4 have had their share of craziness too. Damn, I miss 5.0 Steve! DA GAWD!
Laser Scraper and those infinites put it competitively in a weird place too. You either picked Jin or juggle your foe across the screen with no hope of ever seeing the ground again.
Position Change and the stages were awesome additions. It gave players more to consider and think about when taking in all the possibilities. I know I'm in the minority on the subject but time has a way of making you appreciate what you don't have.
I thought it was great the the series wanted to evolve in such a huge way and 4 could've been the foundation for the series to keep doing such.
It strikes me as weird when people try to look at the leap from Tag 1 to 4 when it doesn't really matter too much. Tag 1 was the celebration of the first 3 and more of a stop gap for what T4 would try to do. Kind of like how Dream Match games in KoF separate one saga from another.
Instead T5 dialed it back huge and that's what the series has built upon since then instead.
T7's dialed the roster back to a reasonable size and is trying its damnedest to become a lot more accessible than the series has been in a very long time and I commend that.
Don't forget, games after T4 have had their share of craziness too. Damn, I miss 5.0 Steve! DA GAWD!