Support NeoGAF

[Cyber Caesar]

I've played tons of fighting games in the past twenty years and in the past ten years I ventured into Action RPGs. Like most people on GAF I've been watching the complaints recently about SFV and its lack of SP content. These complaints I think are partly due to the popularity of NetherRealm's story modes. I also think it's because of the rising popularity of modern story based RPGs. While playing some Street Fighter today I had a thought. Why don't fighting games have hub worlds? In RPGs hub worlds serve multiple purposes. My favorite aspects of Hub Worlds is that they often inform the player about story elements and provide insight about a games main characters. They often do this through voiced NPCs. Do you think this is something that could work in Street Fighter? As a longtime fighting game fan I would like to see fighting games evolve in new ways.

I think in the past decade we have seen a slow decline in popularity of the fighting game genre. Our genre which once dominated is now labeled as niche. I think this is because fighting games are experienced mostly the same way they were when they were invented almost thirty years ago. Static non interactive backgrounds are so 90's.

While looking at the backgrounds in Street Fighter 5 it looks easy to see a hub world application. I think background stages could work well with voiced NPCs that interact with the player.

Also is Capcom going to put the interactive background elements back in? Currently I think Street Fighter has ten background stages. If these stages are modeled in 3D isn't there potentially hundreds of 2D backdrops in each stage? I can see Street Fighter implementing hub worlds and still keeping its great 2D gameplay. We should be allowed to explore that 3D background in-between fights.

I realize this might be worthy of its own thread, but to all my fellow RPG players what elements do you think make for great hub worlds?

Feel free to post any ideas you may have about how to increase the casual appeal of the modern fighting games.

A train depot is a perfect hub world.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

But what would you do in the hub world?

 

[Persona7]

I liked the lobbies in DOA4.

 

[liquidtmd]

Feel free to post any ideas you may have about how to increase the casual appeal of the modern fighting game.

Include an Arcade Mode

 

[Chariot]

But what would you do in the hub world?

Beat the crap out of other people.

 

[Astarte]

I mean, games like Xrd, P4AU, and Blazblue have hub worlds in multiplayer lobbies. Do they count?

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

No thanks, I want to play a fighting game and not an rpg.

 

[Dusk Golem]

Blade Symphony

One of my favorite modes in the game is built off of this concept; you're in a hub world where you can meet and greet with other players, and challenge them to duels. The duels can either take place in officially established arenas, or in the hub world in closed off areas (the hub worlds are designed with multiple potential fighting areas of different design). You can turn any part of the hub world into a fighting arena if you want, and other players in the lobby/hub area can spectate if they wish or fight alongside (the fights won't interrupt each other but can see the other players fighting or watching alongside you but can't interact with them while in a duel).

Be interested to see the idea expanded on much heavier.

 

[Maligna]

Dragonball Xenoverse had a hub world you could walk up to challenge people in.

 

[Syril]

The hub world in Dragon Ball Xenoverse was kind of a pain in the ass because it amounted to running back and forth between menu options.

 

[SquirrelSoup]

I mean, games like Xrd, P4AU, and Blazblue have hub worlds in multiplayer lobbies. Do they count?

Persona's lobbies are so good. Other companies should be including them.

 

[jon bones]

i wouldn't mind "physical" representations of in-game lobbies framed as an old school US arcade

 

[Playsage]

So basically Modnation Racer's Hub but for fighting games?

 

[ZeroX03]

Hub Worlds are just unnecessary loading screens. Walking around is a waste of time too. The faster you can get into a fight the better.

Same goes for Xenoverse and Destiny. A menu can do the trick.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I mean, games like Xrd, P4AU, and Blazblue have hub worlds in multiplayer lobbies. Do they count?

It's a shame how much they messed this up in Xrd. The arcade lobbies are excellent places to find matches.

Also an excellent place to find awkward role-playing between players.

 

[Freshmaker]

I've played tons of fighting games in the past twenty years and in the past ten years I ventured into Action RPGs. Like most people on GAF I've been watching the complaints recently about SFV and its lack of SP content. These complaints I think are partly due to the popularity of NetherRealm's story modes. I also think it's because of the rising popularity of modern story based RPGs. While playing some Street Fighter today I had a thought. Why don't fighting games have hub worlds? In RPGs hub worlds serve multiple purposes. My favorite aspects of Hub Worlds is that they often inform the player about story elements and provide insight about a games main characters. They often do this through voiced NPCs. Do you think this is something that could work in Street Fighter? As a longtime fighting game fan I would like to see fighting games evolve in new ways.

DOA4 offered something similar. Super annoying since people would just sit in lobbies doing nothing.

 

[nailbombxx]

Interesting idea OP. I can't say I ever thought that's what a fighting game needed but i can imagine it being pretty cool if done right.

I think in the past decade we have seen a slow decline in popularity of the fighting game genre. Our genre which once dominated is now labeled as niche. I think this is because fighting games are experienced mostly the same way they were when they were invented almost thirty years ago. Static non interactive backgrounds are so 90's.

But this is pretty inaccurate really. Fighting games exploded back into popularity once Street Fighter IV was successful.

 

[jon bones]

Hub Worlds are just unnecessary loading screens. Walking around is a waste of time too. The faster you can get into a fight the better.

Same goes for Xenoverse and Destiny. A menu can do the trick.

doesn't need to take more time at all - replace the chat window in SF V battle lounges with an arcade like that P4A screenshot

boom, done

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Just seems odd to me. The fun in fighting games is supposed to be playing against others, be it people just dicking around with friends, to those who try and get good, all the way to those who enter tourneys.

It seems like if you want more complex combat in a story setting, that stuff like Bayonetta and what not are where to go, rather than fighting games that generally just have simple vs. cpu arcade modes etc. to go along with their vs. modes.

But the market speaks to that stuff mattering given the popularity of those modes in MKX etc. I have no issues with that content being there, but if there's going to be a hub world or something it should be optional for people who just want to quickly get into matchmaking.

I'd rather developers focus on getting the gameplay, character balance etc. for vs. play down pat, than waste resources on single player modes, hubs etc. Just go the KI route of being free to start and just buy the characters you want so people don't feel ripped off when a game like SFV offers less content for single players than something like MKX.

Not every game has to appeal to every type of gamer.

 

[Brian_FETO]

I'm cool with this concept in a game like Xenoverse but keep it out of traditional fighters (especially ones meant to be seriously competitive). I think world building should take place in the stages themselves

In regards to "fighting games once dominated, but are now considered niche", that may slightly have something to do with arcades being a thing of the past, as well as games themselves changing. Side scrolling platformers used to dominate the market too

 

[jelly]

But what would you do in the hub world?

Collect coins placed around the world using your specific skill set to reach so you have credit to play other people and costumes. If that's too boring there is micro transactions.

 

[Lingitiz]

Didn't DOA4 have some sort of online lobby hub?

edit: beaten

 

[Slamtastic]

I've played tons of fighting games in the past twenty years and in the past ten years I ventured into Action RPGs. Like most people on GAF I've been watching the complaints recently about SFV and its lack of SP content. These complaints I think are partly due to the popularity of NetherRealm's story modes. I also think it's because of the rising popularity of modern story based RPGs. While playing some Street Fighter today I had a thought. Why don't fighting games have hub worlds? In RPGs hub worlds serve multiple purposes. My favorite aspects of Hub Worlds is that they often inform the player about story elements and provide insight about a games main characters. They often do this through voiced NPCs.[/IMG]
A train depot is a perfect hub world.

So basically you want Konquest mode from 2002 back?

A full RPG where the battle system was a fighting game (a 100% SF or MK fighting game, not fighting game esque like Tales), with the ability to play multiplayer as an added bonus would be nice.

 

[ZeroX03]

doesn't need to take more time at all - replace the chat window in SF V battle lounges with an arcade like that P4A screenshot

boom, done

I think there's a big difference between P4U's lobbies and a traditional Hub World.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

Hub Worlds are just unnecessary loading screens. The faster you can get into a fight the better.

Street Fighter V does have a loading problem. I was thinking of Hubs as another means of interacting with the Street Fighter game world. Remember that Street Fighter IV PS Home experiment? Also there was that one Seth stage recreated in Home.

 

[ZeroX03]

Street Fighter V does have a loading problem. I was thinking of Hubs as another means of interacting with the Street Fighter game world. Remember that Street Fighter IV PS Home experiment? Also there was that one Seth stage recreated in Home.

If they want to make a separate optional 3D hub for story purposes then I suppose that's fine, although I'm not sure what kind of resources most fighting games have to put toward that kind of thing. It just lends itself more toward other genres. In Xenoverse - a far more story driven/single player game - it was still a chore to navigate when you just wanted to play.

 

[Neiteio]

I think 2D fighting games could really broaden their appeal by having a well-made side-scrolling beat-'em-up with a variety of themed levels, enemies and bosses. Something to immerse you a bit more in the game world between actual battles. A hub world could be a gateway to that mode and perhaps also contain NPCs who can upgrade your character for the beat-'em-up mode.

 

[CypherSignal]

This is something that Them's Fighting Words (Mane6) is working/planning on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFS6z1F_pmY Not sold on the idea, but I get where it's coming from.

 

[Renekton]

Pointless fluff.

Would prefer less stuff between me and my next lossmatch.

 

[ReaLgoesWronG]

I'm all about including more players into FGs. But hesitant to recommend RPG modes and beat-em-up modes as they take away resources from more important features of the game and could potentially mis-train a new player to learn bad habits. I feel all extra content that gets added should compliment the core gameplay to incentivise or teach new players.

A hub world would just be a bad chat room with slo navigation. Just put in a chat room then with efficient menu flow if thats what people want. Most other FGs I see do something similar, ppl don't chat much in the main lobbies. They chat more inside of a battle lobby, which SF5 has but has yet to allow more than 2 players (smh).

 

[jon bones]

I think there's a big difference between P4U's lobbies and a traditional Hub World.

that's true, a full blown hub world would be pretty useless

 

[Romars202129]

I mean, games like Xrd, P4AU, and Blazblue have hub worlds in multiplayer lobbies. Do they count?

Came to post this. Ultimax secretly best fighter ever made confirmed?

 

[Cyber Caesar]

So basically you want Konquest mode from 2002 back?

A full RPG where the battle system was a fighting game (a 100% SF or MK fighting game, not fighting game esque like Tales), with the ability to play multiplayer as an added bonus would be nice.

I wasn't a fan of Konquest mode. Hub worlds have come a very long way since 2002. I'm thinking of the great hubs that can be found in modern RPGs. I don't think your example serves as a good reference. Konquest mode was a character action game, I don't intend to create a character action game inside the core game. I'm thinking of a densely populated hub full of interesting NPCs that provide further insight into the game world. That is all.

 

[ArjanN]

I think 2D fighting games could really broaden their appeal by having a well-made side-scrolling beat-'em-up with a variety of themed levels, enemies and bosses. Something to immerse you a bit more in the game world between actual battles. A hub world could be a gateway to that mode and perhaps also contain NPCs who can upgrade your character for the beat-'em-up mode.

Honestly what you're describing just sounds like including a full game from a different genre.

 

[shaowebb]

This...actually intrigues me. Make a single player mode where you walk around like in an RPG and interact with folks via dialogue trees and possible side missions all culminating with you eventually locating and taking on a character in the game in the typical 2.5d fighting game stuff.

Just make the story mode an RPG between all those fights so that you could pace when you take them on and immerse yourself a bit more in the world, atmosphere and story of the game. I'd still want an arcade ladder of course, but this isn't really a bad suggestion for how to add content and project a reputation for making a fighting game with more to enjoy outside of online mode. It'd most definitely open up ways to have a collect a thon and customization mode to entice players to sit with the game longer in a different manner.

I think this idea has legs. Lord knows there are ways to do this kind of RPG and make the few fights transition into the normal gameplay. It'd be a neat change from cutscenes and QTE stuff.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

Honestly what you're describing just sounds like including a full game from a different genre.

Voiced NPCs can add flesh to a game. I was suggesting turning a few of Street Fighters backgrounds into NPC filled hub worlds.

 

[Neiteio]

Honestly what you're describing just sounds like including a full game from a different genre.

Sure, but there's enough overlap in terms of controls and character mechanics to make it a natural progression of the fighting game proper.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

Sure, but there's enough overlap in terms of controls and character mechanics to make it a natural progression of the fighting game proper.

No. I have no intent to turn a 2D fighter into a character action game. Some hub worlds exist entirely to educate the player about the game world.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

VF4:Evo's Training and Quest modes, please.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I'm all about including more players into FGs. But hesitant to recommend RPG modes and beat-em-up modes as they take away resources from more important features of the game and could potentially mis-train a new player to learn bad habits. I feel all extra content that gets added should compliment the core gameplay to incentivise or teach new players.

Yep. Besides, few people that pick up a fighting game for some story mode are going to end up spending tons of time playing others online, or become part of the FGC etc. So it doesn't really expand the base in a way that directly helps the competitive aspect of the game (online and tourneys).

Of course, the extra sales help as that's more cash. But that doesn't do much if it just supports the single player content. Which I'm guessing is like CoD other shooters where the devs say the campaigns cost them more than the MP that most people buy the games for.

So like you, I'd rather see the resources go to great tutorial and training modes that teach new comers the basics of fighting game fundamentals and the game's specific systems, marketing focused on the competing and learning aspects etc. than story modes, hubs etc. At least for games like SF that are going for that market. No problem with fighters that are really aiming for that crowd to do other things.

 

[SolarPowered]

That'd be nice, but I wish we could just get to a place where all fighting games have great netcode. Crossplay would be nice too, but that might be too much for most indies in terms of cost.

I think 2D fighting games could really broaden their appeal by having a well-made side-scrolling beat-'em-up with a variety of themed levels, enemies and bosses. Something to immerse you a bit more in the game world between actual battles. A hub world could be a gateway to that mode and perhaps also contain NPCs who can upgrade your character for the beat-'em-up mode.

I like the idea, but it would probably have to be a cut down version of a sidescroller. It'd probably be the best 2D fighters could offer next to the 3D movie styles that Mortal Kombat and Guilty Gear have adopted. A sidescroller would certainly be more accessible than the base fighting game anyway.

 

[gelf]

I'm all for single player modes in fighters but not this. Really I'd want it to be concentrated on actual fights rather then wandering around a hub trying to find them. I want more Virtua fighter style Kumite/Quest modes that don't focus on story at all.

I would however be interested in a fighting game RPG where there is a world and all battles take place in a fighting game engine but I'd say that would be better developed as an entirely separate game to a standard fighter. The closest I can think to that type of game is Shenmue with its Virtua Fighter-ish style fighting.

 

[Slamtastic]

I'm all about including more players into FGs. But hesitant to recommend RPG modes and beat-em-up modes as they take away resources from more important features of the game

But the developer decides what constitutes "the more important features of the game".

What if being a well made RPG worth $60 (with a 1v1 2D action melee combat battle system with special move inputs) is the important feature of the game, and PvP is just something that's easy enough to implement after the fact?

I can't think of any series like that besides Tales, which has moved away form fighting game style to its own battle system with 3D movement and multiple characters.

What if Capcom made another Red Earth/Warzard?

 

[Cyber Caesar]

I'm all for single player modes in fighters but not this. Really I'd want it to be concentrated on actual fights rather then wandering around a hub trying to find them. I want more Virtua fighter style Kumite/Quest modes that don't focus on story at all.

I would however be interested in a fighting game RPG where there is a world and all battles take place in a fighting game engine but I'd say that would be better developed as an entirely separate game to a standard fighter. The closest I can think to that type of game is Shenmue with its Virtua Fighter-ish style fighting.

Did I describe the removal of traditional modes in my post? I suggested the inclusion of NPC filled hubs, hubs that inform the players about the characters and their exploits. Nothing more, nothing less. Never did I suggest a hide and seek, go hunt your next match.

 

[PinballRJ]

Because everyone loved going to the Tower in Destiny

 

[Already Torn]

The hub world in Dragon Ball Xenoverse was kind of a pain in the ass because it amounted to running back and forth between menu options.

Seriously, not a good idea lol

 

[CO_Andy]

But what would you do in the hub world?

harass people

 

[minimumhippo]

Pointless fluff.

Would prefer less stuff between me and my next lossmatch.

Yeah I feel like it already takes sooo long to start a match in SF5. Not even searching for a match. Just the loading, characters staring at each other on the VS screen, loading, match intros, then the point calculation at the end. Fighting games need to work on having even less crap between matches, not more.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

harass people

Hubs also exist in single player only games. No reason it has to be social.

 

[Luigiv]

Not quite a full hub world but Weapon Master Mode in Soul Calibur II was awesome. The sense of context and progression it added was a huge boon to making an addictive singleplayer mode. More fighting games need single player modes like this.