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[orthodoxy1095]

I think it's missing the point to act as though Tabata is getting all the blame for how FFXV turned out

I do think Tabata retains much of the blame because he was brought on to fix the game just like Yoshi-P was given FFXIV. Ultimately no one can really get blamed for the problems of FFXV and SE in general though besides the suits. So that's whatever.

In a post-FFXV world, my feelings about the two as directors is fairly unchanged. Nomura's games are habitually goofball affairs mixed with a dose of convolution and Edgelord 101, and in spite of that he has made action games that are very fun, but he has a tendency to overstretch his ambition. Tabata is an average handheld game director who seems to sacrifice narrative for gameplay fairly often, doesn't know how to deal with women and who also oversaw one of the greatest travesties in SE's catalog in the past decade.

Type 0 PSP and Crisis Core are not garbage games, they were some of the best received FF games of the 2000's, its revisionist history to say they weren't well regarded

Since when did Type 0 and Crisis Core became garbage ?

This isn't a strong argument. Games get reevaluated, and later revaluations of Type-0 have not been kind to it. The gameplay is pretty good, but parts of it are weak, particularly the narrative which is off-the-rails stupid in many spots.

With Type 0 I was talking the original PSP version which was well received critically in Japan. To the point it won most popular FF game among Japanese fans at the time. Which was a big reason there was such a push to bring it over and remaster in for the PS4in the first place.

This is an even less compelling argument. Japan voted beloved FFXIII protagonist, Lightning as their favorite character of the franchise. I'm not going to hold up that fanbase as emblematic of great tastes.

lol

As convoluted as the narrative is in those games, this is a needlessly and stupidly drawn chart just for the sake of going "hur Kingdom Hearts."

Kingdom Hearts' greatest flaw will always be the platform hopping and platform exclusivity of various titles throughout the lifespan of the franchise. It made it nearly impossible for anyone but the most dedicated fan to play all of the games.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Is there a way to summon someone other than Judgementboltman?

 

[Chase17]

Can't believe how much time they had me walking in that train.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The bottom line is that tabby doesn't deserve a lot of the blame for very demanding circumstances out of his control, but he does deserve a portion of said blame for seeing the game to release.

How the team under his watch went about the game could have been so much different in regards to how they approached their time, how they edited the game to make sense story wise and such, and this is under a fully staffed full speed ahead development pipeline.

 

[Slater]

snip

I agree, and I wouldn't either. The point I was trying to make was that there's a reason Tabata was chosen to take over, and it wasn't "He only makes garbage games", he made games that at the time were way better received then what anyone else was doing with the brand and they hoped it would translate.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

How do I even read this diagram ?

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

I only played KH1/2 and COM. The current story version of KH for the upcoming sequel is completely alien to me =/

The bottom line is that tabby doesn't deserve a lot of the blame for very demanding circumstances out of his control, but he does deserve a portion of said blame for seeing the game to release.

How the team under his watch went about the game could have been so much different in regards to how they approached their time, and this is under a fully staffed full speed ahead development pipeline.

Why are people still thinking just about the 'game'?

Do they tend to forget that Tabata was not only overseeing the development and design of FFXV, he was also basically the face of Luminious Engine Pro. So in the 3 years from 2013 to 2016, they not only completed their work on Luminious Engine from a clusterfuck to something that can be used to release games, they also finished their work on FFXV and took the narrative that was written for a whole set of games to fit it into a single RPG that could potentially take the player dozen of hours.

No matter how it is looked, this was not an easy feat and now it is done and dusted. The project has received pretty good reviews aside from the criticizing from fans.

Tabata as a project manager and director should be seen with the same eye as YoshiP. He made Luminious Engine into something that can be used for developing games at SE and also closed a 10 years long chapter at SE. Time to move on.

 

[Inuhanyou]

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

I only played KH1/2 and COM. The current story version of KH for the upcoming sequel is completely alien to me =/

Don't you think that also has to do with why your so confused?

Not playing any of the games and then asking what is going on is completely backwards to me.

As convoluted as the narrative is in those games, this is a needlessly and stupidly drawn chart just for the sake of going "hur Kingdom Hearts."

Kingdom Hearts' greatest flaw will always be the platform hopping and platform exclusivity of various titles throughout the lifespan of the franchise. It made it nearly impossible for anyone but the most dedicated fan to play all of the games.

I was just about to say this. There are 9 games, they go in order of release.

And now the platform hopping issue is out of the way with all the games on PS4.

 

[WaterAstro]

I very well know how game development works. Which is why I'm saying that using Kingdom Hearts as a merit to say that XV's story wouldn't have had issues if he had more time/resources is pointless. Since KH isn't even a tenth of XV in terms of scope. I'm not blaming him, I'm just saying that to believe that he could have crafted a much better game devoid of story issues and gameplay issues than what we have is just holding onto a fantasy. The project was too ambitious from the get go and it was always going to run into trouble even if they had no logistical issues.

FF13 is irrelevant here neither Nomura nor Tabata had anything to do with it...so no point mentioning it here.

KH isn't as big as FFXV's scope because the new team decided to slap on a bunch of shitty non-Final Fantasy features onto it. If FFXV was like KH level scope, no metal gear base invasion, no resident evil fucking chapter 13, no stupid train sequences, it would have been a LOT better focusing on what makes it Final Fantasy.

and EXACTLY! Nomura had nothing to do with the WORST FINAL FANTASY!
And story is all on Nojima, not the director. Final Fantasy needs Nomura and Nojima at the helm from start to finish. Maybe Kitase too, but he hasn't been directing or writing like he did for FF7.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Don't you think that also has to do with why your so confused?

Not playing any of the games and then asking what is going on is completely backwards to me.

Haha, you guys seriously think that if we had played the games in order, the story would have still made sense. Really?

There is no point in denying that it is a convoluted mess and not because the story is spread over multiple platforms, but because of the way it is written.

 

[orichalcos]

What was that ending?

 

[Slater]

KH isn't as big as FFXV's scope because the new team decided to slap on a bunch of shitty non-Final Fantasy features onto it. If FFXV was like KH level scope, no metal gear base invasion, no resident evil fucking chapter 13, no stupid train sequences, it would have been a LOT better focusing on what makes it Final Fantasy.

and EXACTLY! Nomura had nothing to do with the WORST FINAL FANTASY!
And story is all on Nojima, not the director. Final Fantasy needs Nomura and Nojima at the helm from start to finish. Maybe Kitase too, but he hasn't been directing or writing like he did for FF7.

Trusting modern day Nojima with an FF story? Bold strategy cotton lets see if its works ou..

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X-2.5_~Eien_no_Daishō~

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X_-Will-

Oh, right.

 

[Chase17]

What was Ardyn'a plan/agenda?

Is prompto a robot?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I was just about to say this. There are 9 games, they go in order of release.

And now the platform hopping issue is out of the way with all the games on PS4.

Praise the sun for those PS4 ports 🙏

Haha, you guys seriously think that if we had played the games in order, the story would have still made sense. Really?

There is no point in denying that it is a convoluted mess and not because the story is spread over multiple platforms, but because of the way it is written.

Yes, I think if you follow a story in the order it's told, it makes more sense than any alternative. Shocking, I know.

XV is full of just as many stupid Japanese-ass JRPG plot points, names and concepts as the messy narrative in Kingdom Hearts.
.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Why are people still thinking just about the 'game'?

Do they tend to forget that Tabata was not only overseeing the development and design of FFXV, he was also basically the face of Luminious Engine Pro. So in the 3 years from 2013 to 2016, they not only completed their work on Luminious Engine from a clusterfuck to something that can be used to release games, they also finished their work on FFXV and took the narrative that was written for a whole set of games to fit it into a single RPG that could potentially take the player dozen of hours.

No matter how it is looked, this was not an easy feat and now it is done and dusted. The project has received pretty good reviews aside from the criticizing from fans.

Tabata as a project manager and director should be seen with the same eye as YoshiP. He made Luminious Engine into something that can be used for developing games at SE and also closed a 10 years long chapter at SE. Time to move on.

He didn't create Lumionus engine, head any divisions related to it, nor was he apart of the development team for said engine. He was apart of the first game team working with the engine, and nothing more.

Your elevating the guy to a position he did not earn for a false narrative. He literally is nothing like YoshiP who was apart of the team dedicated to making FF14 ARR's engine and fixing the original game into something new

Tabata's team is responsible for taking an existing game structure and generally messily seeing it through production with varying levels of success, to their credit. The team is lucky that many of the fundamental aspects of said structure were so strong to begin with, because how they actually paced and edited the game were nothing short of sub par.

Again, i am not saying Tabata is directly at fault or the only one at fault for how the end product turned out, but he had has a hand in how FF15 turned out based on how he steered the ship and what he prioritized as a focus.

 

[Mailbox]

What was Ardyn'a plan/agenda?

Is prompto a robot?

Ardyn's plan/agenda is pure revenge. He was shunned for storing daemons in his soul and being a savior, and thus (now being immortal and tainted) he wants to kill off the Lucian line and destroy the crystal.

As for prompto, no. He was born in Niflhim apparently. Its not a well handled plot twist and only really works if you had that missable scene with him and noct on top of the motel.

 

[WaterAstro]

Trusting modern day Nojima with an FF story? Bold strategy cotton lets see if its works ou..

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X-2.5_~Eien_no_Daishō~

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X_-Will-

Oh, right.

Oh yeah let's ignore FF7... and FF8... and FFX... and Kingdom Hearts, Crisis Core, etc etc.

I would love to see how Nojima's original scenario would have been like for FFXV.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I am...frustrated that we have now derailed the thread into director fanboy wars.

Tabata and his team were the one in charge of the final product's state, so he deserves blame, but not all of it due to unreasonable SE upper management.


And by that same token, Nomura honestly at this point doesn't even belong in the conversation beyond when people bring up how FFVersus 13 or FF15 would have turned out so much better under him, when we literally will never know anything about that possibility at this point and thus makes no sense to claim.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

He didn't create Lumionus engine, head any divisions related to it, nor was he apart of the development team for said engine. He was apart of the first game team working with the engine, and nothing more.

Your elevating the guy to a position he did not earn for a false narrative. He literally is nothing like YoshiP who was apart of the team dedicated to making FF14 ARR's engine and fixing the original game into something new

Tabata's team is responsible for taking an existing game structure and generally messily seeing it through to production with varying levels of success, to their credit. The team is lucky that many of the fundamental aspects of said structure were so strong to begin with, because how they actually paced and edited the game were nothing short of sub par.

Again, i am not saying Tabata is directly at fault or the only one at fault, he had has a hand in how FF15 turned out based on how he steered the ship and what he prioritized as a focus.

I've compared Tabata to Yoshi-P, but there's some truth to the notion that he accomplished something different.

Yoshi-P didn't just "fix" the game, he oversaw the maintenance of FFXIV while building AAR basically from the ground up. Creating a new MMO while maintaining an old one is quite a feat.

 

[nOoblet16]

What was Ardyn'a plan/agenda?

Is prompto a robot?

Wiping out the Lucius bloodline...which he succeeded in.

He was the original Lucius Caelum, he saved the world from Daemons by absorbing them, then some Izunia fellow demonised him and he lost the favour of Astrals and he became cursed by being denied afterlife when he became immortal after absorbing the daemons. That Izunia fellow was then choosen by the Astrals and he took the name Lucius Caelum...he happens to be Noctis' ancestor.

Ardyn then took Izunia's name and did bad stuff to taint that name and decided to wipe out the bloodline that took his name.

 

[Slater]

Oh yeah let's ignore FF7... and FF8... and FFX... and Kingdom Hearts, Crisis Core, etc etc.

I would love to see how Nojima's original scenario would have been like for FFXV.

So would I, but to take it as a given that it would be good is ridiculous. MANY people would argue about the "quality" of 8 and even then, there's a reason I said 'Modern" Nojima. Dude hasn't written a well received story in 9 years if you count Crisis Core. and if you don't then he hasn't for over a decade

 

[Mailbox]

Haha, you guys seriously think that if we had played the games in order, the story would have still made sense. Really?

There is no point in denying that it is a convoluted mess and not because the story is spread over multiple platforms, but because of the way it is written.

Yes, if you play the games in release order, (maybe outside of DDD), the story does indeed make sense.

Each of the games themselves don't really get overly confusing on their own really. Even stuff like the ansem naming stuff is only confusing on paper, in practice its presented well. For posture, Kh1 is concise and not confusing, as is also the case for COM. Kh2 backloads its whole story into the second half, and even then its not really confusing. 358/2 days seems confusing on paper due to memories and xion and stuff, but the information is presented in chunks that are easily digestible. BBS has a concise, if kinda slim, story. Re:coded is just a dumb side story that you don't need to play or watch. [chi] is really only backstory and lore really (the movie included in 2.8 should be enough to understand anything from it).

The only actual confusing parts of the plot are the time-travel BS that happens in DDD.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

He didn't create Lumionus engine, head any divisions related to it, nor was he apart of the development team for said engine. He was apart of the first game team working with the engine, and nothing more.

Your elevating the guy to a position he did not earn for a false narrative. He literally is nothing like YoshiP who was apart of the team dedicated to making FF14 ARR's engine and fixing the original game into something new

Tabata's team is responsible for taking an existing game structure and generally messily seeing it through production with varying levels of success, to their credit. The team is lucky that many of the fundamental aspects of said structure were so strong to begin with, because how they actually paced and edited the game were nothing short of sub par.

Again, i am not saying Tabata is directly at fault or the only one at fault for how the end product turned out, but he had has a hand in how FF15 turned out based on how he steered the ship and what he prioritized as a focus.

First you need to do your research, Tabata's role is not a simple director. His title at Business Division 2 is also "head of the next-generation technology research project and Division Executive of Business Division II"

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1038568

Tabata and his team at BD2 were working on the Luminious Engine at some capacity. He wasn't solely responsible for its creation, if you think that's what I am implying. But as the head of that particular department, he had a lot of hand on how it turned out be the end of the day. Trying to ignore his role in the engine is disservice to his work.

BD2 is the only division who has worked on the Luminous Engine from start till the end and delivered an actual product with it. All of the other SE divisions are using other multiplatform engines.

 

[WaterAstro]

So would I, but to take it as a given that it would be good is ridiculous. MANY people would argue about the "quality" of 8 and even then, there's a reason I said 'Modern" Nojima. Dude hasn't written a well received story in 9 years if you count Crisis Core. and if you don't then he hasn't for over a decade

Uh you really say that a writer lost their touch if they haven't written a story recently?

lol

Also the dude hasn't worked under Square-Enix for a long time.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I've compared Tabata to Yoshi-P, but there's some truth to the notion that he accomplished something different.

Yoshi-P didn't just "fix" the game, he oversaw the maintenance of FFXIV while building AAR basically from the ground up. Creating a new MMO while maintaining an old one is quite a feat.

I understand that. My point is that Yoshida generally is on another level from a lot of people at that company, and comparing his circumstances to Tabata generally is unfair to him as well as Tabata really.

First you need to do your research, Tabata's role is not a simple director. His title at Business Division 2 is also "head of the next-generation technology research project and Division Executive of Business Division II"

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1038568

Tabata and his team at BD2 were working on the Luminious Engine at some capacity. He wasn't solely responsible for its creation, if you think that's what I am implying. But as the head of that particular department, he had a lot of hand on how it turned out be the end of the day. Trying to ignore his role in the engine is disservice to his work.

BD2 is the only division who has worked on the Luminous Engine from start till the end and delivered an actual product with it. All of the other SE divisions are using other multiplatform engines.

You misunderstand.

Again, he was named head of that division because he was working directly on the first product that was shaping Luminous engine. He had nothing to do with the creation of said engine at its core, only its formation as it stood in regards to FFXV.

If you go back to 2010, 11 and 2012, he is nowhere to be found working on the fundamentals of this engine. Only when he became involved in FF15 by default did such a transition take place.

 

[Slater]

Uh you really say that a writer lost their touch if they haven't written a story recently?

lol

Also the dude hasn't worked under Square-Enix for a long time.

Did you miss the garbage fires he wrote that I linked from three years ago that pissed on his own story? Lol dude lost his touch in 2003. Crisis Core was the exception on his massive decline.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I am no longer posting about this subject any longer. This conversation about listing director accomplishments and fanboy size contests makes no sense to me to begin with.

If one can't recognize that Tabata as director of the finished product deserves a portion of the blame for how he rewrote, managed the side external materials out of the game, and generally did not edit the game to be a clean result, there's nothing else to argue about.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I am...frustrated that we have now derailed the thread into director fanboy wars.

Tabata and his team were the one in charge of the final product's state, so he deserves blame, but not all of it due to unreasonable SE upper management.

And by that same token, Nomura honestly at this point doesn't even belong in the conversation beyond when people bring up how FFVersus 13 or FF15 would have turned out so much better under him, when we literally will never know anything about that possibility at this point and thus makes no sense to claim.

I think they key issue that seems to crop is that a critique on Nomura is seen as support of Tabata and critique of Tabata is read as support of Nomura. Which obviously doesn't have to be the case.

I understand that. My point is that Yoshida generally is on another level from a lot of people at that company, and comparing his circumstances to Tabata generally is unfair to him as well as Tabata really.

Oh I agree.

I think comparing the recovery he did and even expecting that of Tabata is a mistake to begin with. It's a disservice to what Yoshida did and it's a frankly silly bar to set for Tabata.

 

[Slater]

I think they key issue that seems to crop is that a critique on Nomura is seen as support of Tabata and critique of Tabata is read as support of Nomura. Which obviously doesn't have to be the case.

^^^^

Just cause I sympathize with Tabata, and don't have any faith in Nojima (not Nomura) doesn't mean I'm trying to fanboy for him. He helped make this bed, even if it didn't start with him.

The only person at Square worthy of fanboys and full belief is YoshiP

 

[DarkLordMalik]

You misunderstand.

Again, he was named head of that division because he was working directly on the first product that was shaping Luminous engine. He had nothing to do with the creation of said engine at its core, only its formation as it stood in regards to FFXV.

If you go back to 2010, 11 and 2012, he is nowhere to be found working on the fundamentals of this engine. Only when he became involved in FF15 by default did such a transition take place.

And you again are trying to shrug off his involvement as nothing else when the engine was a 'clusterfuck' of epic proportion from 2010 to 2013. It also had some very high level departures from what I remember. People used to make jokes around it, even calling it a dead engine.

Yet here we are. FFXV is released. Luminious Engine is now a fully functional engine that can make open world games. BD2 is working on their next project and have delivered a successful product that is technically impressive. All under the direction of Tabata who had a lot to say in this regard.

If you get some time free from praising Nomura, read this article to gain insight on the development methodologies of Tabata.

Finishing Final Fantasy

Maybe after reading this article, you will begin to appreciate the work he has done. And yes, he has done more than enough like Yoshida did for FFXIV with the engine and all, and he has the potential to do far more for SE, which is why you will keep seeing him rise in promotion for good reason.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

^^^^

Just cause I sympathize with Tabata, and don't have any faith in Nojima (not Nomura) doesn't mean I'm trying to fanboy for him. He helped make this bed, even if it didn't start with him.

The only person at Square worthy of fanboys and blind belief is YoshiP

For sure. I have a lot of faith in that man. He really gets it and everything I've seen him say afterward in interviews and presentations like at GDC has impressed me.

 

[Slater]

For sure. I have a lot of faith in that man. He really gets it and everything I've seen him say afterward in interviews and presentations like at GDC has impressed me.

Mhm, giving BD5 XVI would be the dream. Didn't Kagari say they were hiring for a big project that wasn't XIV? The dream right there.

 

[Chase17]

Ardyn's plan/agenda is pure revenge. He was shunned for storing daemons in his soul and being a savior, and thus (now being immortal and tainted) he wants to kill off the Lucian line and destroy the crystal.

As for prompto, no. He was born in Niflhim apparently. Its not a well handled plot twist and only really works if you had that missable scene with him and noct on top of the motel.

Wiping out the Lucius bloodline...which he succeeded in.

He was the original Lucius Caelum, he saved the world from Daemons by absorbing them, then some Izunia fellow demonised him and he lost the favour of Astrals and he became cursed by being denied afterlife when he became immortal after absorbing the daemons. That Izunia fellow was then choosen by the Astrals and he took the name Lucius Caelum...he happens to be Noctis' ancestor.

Ardyn then took Izunia's name and did bad stuff to taint that name and decided to wipe out the bloodline that took his name.

Thanks for the breakdown! Noctis was grunting a ton during his monologue in chapter 13 so I think I missed some of that there.

 

[Jorgie]

*some fuckery*

lol

Me trying to figure this out

 

[StarVigil]

They need to overhaul the whole game, basically. Expand on the empire being the bad guys. Give more screen time to the characters and their plans. Fill the god damn plot holes and off screen shit without explanations. The whole game feels like from the perspective of a person who keeps nodding off during a lord of the rings marathon.
Make the second continent open world. Let us see Tenabrae. Let us see the empire. Then, after the time skip, let all 4 of them travel back from the empire to Insomnia in the world of ruin.
Oh, and also, you have fucking Umbra. Travel back in time, kill ardyn when he was a mortal in the past, thus he isn't joining the empire -> empire is not evil anymore -> peace between nations -> Everyone gets laid -> Happy Endings all around. There you go.



*sigh*
What stage of Grief was bargaining again?

Edit: same, @mina. MGSV kind of after taste for me as well

 

[minameissteve]

Just finished it. Overall, the story was a complete mess. I loved the four main characters, but everyone else fell flat.

Wasn't a fan of the direction the ending took either. I couldn't help but be reminded of MGSV all over again. I had a suspicion it might end up like MGSV, but I wasn't expecting there to be this many similarities, even right down to the damn parasites.

That logo change was amazing, though.

 

[WaterAstro]

Did you miss the garbage fires he wrote that I linked from three years ago that pissed on his own story? Lol dude lost his touch in 2003. Crisis Core was the exception on his massive decline.

They aren't games.

 

[nOoblet16]

You know there is a reason 3D platforms don't have realistic animations. I don't know what you guys found so amazing about that platforming dungeon except that it becomes a different game for 2 hours. It's been the most unfun experience in the game for me yet and I adore this game. The Juno's where you have tiny room for error like the one where you have to run on a platform moving the opposite direction and then land on a tiny part of a platform covered in spikes....that's just shit. And I know even finishing it I won't feel a thing because I probably have another 4-5 rooms to go like this.

So many game developers insist on making their game do things it's not suitable for doing. I remember this used to be one of my big complaints about Dark Souls, how their collision and physics engine was primitive and because of which sections where you had to walk on thin or slanted platforms would cause you to slip for no reason.

Just finished it. Overall, the story was a complete mess. I loved the four main characters, but everyone else fell flat.

Wasn't a fan of the direction the ending took either. I couldn't help but be reminded of MGSV all over again. I had a suspicion it might end up like MGSV, but I wasn't expecting there to be this many similarities, even right down to the damn parasites.

That logo change was amazing, though.

I disagree.
MGSV's 2nd half was disappointing for reasons different than the one in FFXV. In MGSV the 2nd half is basically you redoing missions from first half with an odd cutscene thrown in now and then. Here it's different. In MGSV the pacing took a nose dive despite already being quite slow in first half, too little happens. In FFXV it's the exact opposite, the pacing takes an extreme jump and too much happens which leads to skips and missed details like offscreen events. In that it feels lacking, but MGSV feels lacking because the details are completely absent in the first place...atleast in FFXV you have enough to draw some conclusions.


Where MGSV's 2nd half felt incomplete, FFXV's 2nd half seems rushed and not fleshed out.

 

[LAA]

Just beat the game now. :'(
Few questions...
1. Did Noctis actually survive at the end or was that "in heaven"?
2. Confused about Ardyn, so he was essentially a past king or chosen king who went bad?
3. Don't understand the deal with Prompto. So he's a Daemon? What's this I'm hearing about his father? How did he get to Insomnia if he was born a Daemon?

Otherall I loved the game, to think its finally over now, (well almost, after the dlc ), but yeah I'll always be questioning what it would be like if it was VS XIII, but I suppose it's both better and worse in a few ways whatever happened. I remembered the possible Ravus vs Noctis scene from VS XIII and that didn't happen.
Also sad I'm just seeing scenes were cut post FFXV. We didn't see a lot of the scenes in the dawn trailer for a start, Luna being hit by the solider and Regis with child Noctis in front of the Kings of yore. And I'm still sad we didn't get the Regis and Noctis soup scene in the game... ha ha.
That and a lot of scenes didn't go as expected. Noctis seemingly got over his father's death super quickly. And even after discovering Ardyn was with Niflheim, (which at least one of them should have known), they were still a bit chummy with him, despite knowing he caused the invasion of their home country and killed it's citizens and king.
Also confused me Cor never shown up again after Caem. Would have liked to have seen all the gang after the time skip too.
Also just fucking Gladio coming back with more scars and no one really makes a big deal out it and let's it go and don't question where he went. I know it'll probably be cleared up in dlc but now since question was it took out on purpose for dlc? I'm thinking yes. Or even just invented the gap to sell dlc.
Luna was a bit of a disappointment too. Not her character, just little was shown of her, which I guess would be hard to show as you're covering a different group, but still.
In fact pretty much all of the main characters, apart from Noctis and the gang and Ardyn it didn't feel we got much attention towards them.

Only gameplay criticisms I have is NO OPTION TO SPEED UP TIME and you only get the airship after beating the game... hardly any point then though? It's still awesome and that secret dungeon I'll do tomorrow but shame it wasn't gotten much earlier.

Just sad after all this time, some of me still thinks "This could have done with more time", saying that though, this is probably my favourite FF now, at least joint with FF7. I think they definitely succeeded in making a modern FF that appeals to the masses and core FF fans, so that's great.

EDIT: Oh Tenebrae too. Remember it being in the uncovered trailer showing it in the day like it would be an explorable area though it didn't end up happening. Massive shame if it was took out. Making it sound negative but probably easily GOTY for me so far (I doubt anything else could take it, but last Guardian is probably the best chance)

 

[Listonosh]

Just beat the game now. :'(
Few questions...
1. Did Noctis actually survive at the end or was that "in heaven"?
2. Confused about Ardyn, so he was essentially a past king or chosen king who went bad?
3. Don't understand the deal with Prompto. So he's a Daemon? What's this I'm hearing about his father? How did he get to Insomnia if he was born a Daemon?

1. I believe that's supposed to be them in the afterlife, certainly not alive, unless it's some alternate timeline which wouldnt make sense.
2. He was a savior who chose to save the world by taking in daemons into himself, rather than vanquishing them outright. Becuase of this, he got corrupted and was cursed by being immortal.
3. Yeah, I'm confused about this too. I dont think he's a daemon but he's certainly from Niflheim. The thing about his parents I dont understand either. Especially once you consider the prologue which they released a translation for, which has Prompto leaving Gladio to go see if his parents are home (they weren't).

 

[Athreous]

Just beat the game now. :'(
Few questions...
1. Did Noctis actually survive at the end or was that "in heaven"?
2. Confused about Ardyn, so he was essentially a past king or chosen king who went bad?
3. Don't understand the deal with Prompto. So he's a Daemon? What's this I'm hearing about his father? How did he get to Insomnia if he was born a Daemon?

Otherall I loved the game, to think its finally over now, (well almost, after the dlc ), but yeah I'll always be questioning what it would be like if it was VS XIII, but I suppose it's both better and worse in a few ways whatever happened. I remembered the possible Ravus vs Noctis scene from VS XIII and that didn't happen.
Also sad I'm just seeing scenes were cut post FFXV. We didn't see a lot of the scenes in the dawn trailer for a start, Luna being hit by the solider and Regis with child Noctis in front of the Kings of yore. And I'm still sad we didn't get the Regis and Noctis soup scene in the game... ha ha.
That and a lot of scenes didn't go as expected. Noctis seemingly got over his father's death super quickly. And even after discovering Ardyn was with Niflheim, (which at least one of them should have known), they were still a bit chummy with him, despite knowing he caused the invasion of their home country and killed it's citizens and king.
Also confused me Cor never shown up again after Caem. Would have liked to have seen all the gang after the time skip too.
Also just fucking Gladio coming back with more scars and no one really makes a big deal out it and let's it go and don't question where he went. I know it'll probably be cleared up in dlc but now since question was it took out on purpose for dlc? I'm thinking yes. Or even just invented the gap to sell dlc.
Luna was a bit of a disappointment too. Not her character, just little was shown of her, which I guess would be hard to show as you're covering a different group, but still.
In fact pretty much all of the main characters, apart from Noctis and the gang and Ardyn it didn't feel we got much attention towards them.

Only gameplay criticisms I have is NO OPTION TO SPEED UP TIME and you only get the airship after beating the game... hardly any point then though? It's still awesome and that secret dungeon I'll do tomorrow but shame it wasn't gotten much earlier.

Just sad after all this time, some of me still thinks "This could have done with more time", saying that though, this is probably my favourite FF now, at least joint with FF7. I think they definitely succeeded in making a modern FF that appeals to the masses and core FF fans, so that's great.

1. Yes, he died, that's an after life "dream".
2. Yup, he's a pasta king which used to fight daemons and ended up becoming one (kind of)
3. Prompto isn't a daemon, he's just born in Nifelheim

It is, at FFVII's side, my most loved FF now, and I cried a ton at the end, it was so sad, after all the trouble you and your friends had, and imagine how hard it was for Regis, to "do that" do his own son... It's like he was born do die, in order to save the whole planet from darkness...

 

[Mailbox]

Just beat the game now. :'(
Few questions...
1. Did Noctis actually survive at the end or was that "in heaven"?
2. Confused about Ardyn, so he was essentially a past king or chosen king who went bad?
3. Don't understand the deal with Prompto. So he's a Daemon? What's this I'm hearing about his father? How did he get to Insomnia if he was born a Daemon?

Otherall I loved the game, to think its finally over now, (well almost, after the dlc ), but yeah I'll always be questioning what it would be like if it was VS XIII, but I suppose it's both better and worse in a few ways whatever happened. I remembered the possible Ravus vs Noctis scene from VS XIII and that didn't happen.
Also sad I'm just seeing scenes were cut post FFXV. We didn't see a lot of the scenes in the dawn trailer for a start, Luna being hit by the solider and Regis with child Noctis in front of the Kings of yore. And I'm still sad we didn't get the Regis and Noctis soup scene in the game... ha ha.
That and a lot of scenes didn't go as expected. Noctis seemingly got over his father's death super quickly. And even after discovering Ardyn was with Niflheim, (which at least one of them should have known), they were still a bit chummy with him, despite knowing he caused the invasion of their home country and killed it's citizens and king.
Also confused me Cor never shown up again after Caem. Would have liked to have seen all the gang after the time skip too.
Also just fucking Gladio coming back with more scars and no one really makes a big deal out it and let's it go and don't question where he went. I know it'll probably be cleared up in dlc but now since question was it took out on purpose for dlc? I'm thinking yes. Or even just invented the gap to sell dlc.
Luna was a bit of a disappointment too. Not her character, just little was shown of her, which I guess would be hard to show as you're covering a different group, but still.
In fact pretty much all of the main characters, apart from Noctis and the gang and Ardyn it didn't feel we got much attention towards them.

Only gameplay criticisms I have is NO OPTION TO SPEED UP TIME and you only get the airship after beating the game... hardly any point then though? It's still awesome and that secret dungeon I'll do tomorrow but shame it wasn't gotten much earlier.

Just sad after all this time, some of me still thinks "This could have done with more time", saying that though, this is probably my favourite FF now, at least joint with FF7. I think they definitely succeeded in making a modern FF that appeals to the masses and core FF fans, so that's great.

No, everyone in the main cast is dead now. The end scene is the a what could have been. a "final fantasy" between luna and noct is you were (cough)

Ardyn was a healer of the blight who stored daemons in his soul. The Astrals rejected him because he became corrupted, and was cast aside as a monster. His motivation is about satisfying his need for revenge. He had many opportunities to just straight up kill noct and end the lineage and still have eternal darkness, but he wanted to kill Noct as the true king.

Prompto is not a daemon. Idk what the bar code thing was about tbh.

 

[LAA]

1. Yes, he died, that's an after life "dream".
2. Yup, he's a pasta king which used to fight daemons and ended up becoming one (kind of)
3. Prompto isn't a daemon, he's just born in Nifelheim

It is, at FFVII's side, my most loved FF now, and I cried a ton at the end, it was so sad, after all the trouble you and your friends had, and imagine how hard it was for Regis, to "do that" do his own son... It's like he was born do die, in order to save the whole planet from darkness...

Have to admit my eyes were getting teary on the credits scene I think ha ha.
Makes more sense if Prompto was just born in Niflheim ha ha, but what was the deal with hand having a barcode? Made it seem he was experimented on or something.

EDIT: Ah thanks above comment!

 

[Mailbox]

I was tearing up when i had to choose a picture to keep.

 

[Ishida]

I was tearing up when i had to choose a picture to keep.

I saw a Youtube video where they pretty much ruin the ending by selecting a photo of Cindy.

It was hilarious in that final scene. XD

 

[Chase17]

I saw a Youtube video where they pretty much ruin the ending by selecting a photo of Cindy.

It was hilarious in that final scene. XD

lol that is pretty good



I don't know if this has been talked about since I only beat the game today, but how does everyone feel about blind Ignis?

 

[Listonosh]

It is, at FFVII's side, my most loved FF now, and I cried a ton at the end, it was so sad, after all the trouble you and your friends had, and imagine how hard it was for Regis, to "do that" do his own son... It's like he was born do die, in order to save the whole planet from darkness...

This was actually brought up a few pages ago in relation to one of my questions too. So as far as you know, Regis knew the entire time his son would die? How would he know that? Did he know the world was plunging into an everlasting darkness prior to the game's events? I know he sends him to Altissia to get "married" to basically save him from the invasion he knew was coming, but was he also sending him on a suicide mission to end his life so the world could be saved?

I don't know if this has been talked about since I only beat the game today, but how does everyone feel about blind Ignis?

Man I felt horrible about that. It actually really hit me hard after the time skip, and Talcott talks about everyone and mentions how Ignis doesn't mind it since he's been in the darkness all this time. I teared after he said that. What an unfortunate accident. But I guess what's worse is that we don't really know how the hell it happened?! I probably would have had more compassion seeing that happen to him than seeing Luna get killed, since I felt no attachment to her.

Also, has anyone tried the dungeon after Ignis goes blind and not taking him? what happens?

 

[Meowster]

The logo change was so beautifully done. 😢

The new menu song is gorgeous too. Cannot wait for this soundtrack to officially be out.

 

[d00d3n]

What are the consequences of dying in the game?

 

[Ishida]

I don't know if this has been talked about since I only beat the game today, but how does everyone feel about blind Ignis?

I really loved it. It was pretty heartbreaking seeing Ignis act so cold and somewhat bitter. It was a nice change.

 

[minameissteve]

lol that is pretty good



I don't know if this has been talked about since I only beat the game today, but how does everyone feel about blind Ignis?

I feel like that was the only time where the narrative suddenly had focus and emotion. It being directly after Luna's death was a double whammy.