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Fire Emblem If to feature Base Building mode and head rubbing mode

I know Priest is a class and so is Sister, but no traditional nuns. Someone like her would be awesome:

I had missed out on some of the previous FE games so was not sure if they ever added those classes / characters into the series at one point or another.

Valkyria Chronicles 3 had an elderly woman as one of the protagonists. Was a pretty good character too with how she was written.

latest

Thats most likely the closest thing we will ever get to Yolanda lol
 
Valkyria Chronicles 3 had an elderly woman as one of the protagonists. Was a pretty good character too with how she was written.



Thats most likely the closest thing we will ever get to Yolanda lol
Oh yeah, Gloria was a badass. I loved her because old ladies are like never ever in JRPGs. Old men sometimes. But women are never even middle aged, let alone old.
 
I don't think the issue is anime in general, it's the giant boobs and armor designs.

P3 has yukari? Her bust size is insane. They also have optional gear that is nothing but fan service (bikinis, swimming trunks, etc)

P4? C'mon.

Not to mention the whole dating waifu Simulator thing peppered throughout the entire game.

I think people need to embrace the kawaii in Chloe, feif, persona, etc... Just let the kawaii flow within you.
 
Oh yeah, Gloria was a badass. I loved her because old ladies are like never ever in JRPGs. Old men sometimes. But women are never even middle aged, let alone old.

Valkyrie Profile on the DS had another one. That game had some nice character design.


Its too bad that we dont have any characters like this for FE. Since am sure Kozaki Yusuke most def could do some good designs for some thats why.
 
I wonder if there is any relationship between present female idols (pop singers, actors, etc) and female characters in games.

Could this be an explanation as to why there has been a sudden change in design in games?

I admit, the outfits in feif are a bit... 'risque', but isn't your average music star shaking their ass on television in skimpy clothing? (Just look at the whole 'twerk craze')

Not making excuses for Nintendo, but I feel there is some sort of cultural influence that is happening here. I don't blame them for being 'current' and appealing to a younger, less traditional audience.

Whatever keeps the sequels coming?
 
Valkyrie Profile on the DS had another one. That game had some nice character design.



Its too bad that we dont have any characters like this for FE. Since am sure Kozaki Yusuke most def could do some good designs for some thats why.
Yeah, I'd love to see a badass old lady by Kozaki. And Flavia doesn't count despite how much Basilio tried to say she was old. :p

I wonder if there is any relationship between present female idols (pop singers, actors, etc) and female characters in games.

Could this be an explanation as to why there has been a sudden change in design in games?

I admit, the outfits in feif are a bit... 'risque', but isn't your average music star shaking there ass on television in skimpy clothing? (Just look at the whole 'twerk craze')

Not making excuses for Nintendo, but I feel there is some sort of cultural influence that is happening here. I don't blame them for being 'current' and appealing to a younger, less traditional audience.

Whatever keeps the sequels coming?
Yeah, I'm sure there's a strong link. I'm no expert, but I really don't like idol culture. It's like an obsession with these really annoying artificial personalities and it just seems so strange.

What I don't get is that it's all already present in awakening. People are treating this as if it's new to If.
Yeah, though it helped that it was less visible. Like Tharja is holding a book over her chest, and we never see Olivia's er...bottom half outside of battle.
 
Yeah, though it helped that it was less visible. Like Tharja is holding a book over her chest, and we never see Olivia's er...bottom half outside of battle.

Thing is people keep complaining about the dark female being Boobs McFallingout.

Did you guys forget about the dark female who is Boobs McFallingout in awakening?

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Aversa

People say it got worse but frankly I don't see it.

Now if you're comparing it to the old games sure, but the designs are no more risque than what is shown in awakening.
 
I wonder if there is any relationship between present female idols (pop singers, actors, etc) and female characters in games.

Could this be an explanation as to why there has been a sudden change in design in games?

I admit, the outfits in feif are a bit... 'risque', but isn't your average music star shaking there ass on television in skimpy clothing? (Just look at the whole 'twerk craze')

Not making excuses for Nintendo, but I feel there is some sort of cultural influence that is happening here. I don't blame them for being 'current' and appealing to a younger, less traditional audience.

Whatever keeps the sequels coming?

For this game nope, Illusory Revelations (the wii U game) ...VERY YES.

However, idol culture is not new to Japan and has been there for a looooooong time. I think the bigger issue is how Japan really changed from the world market in the last decade and a lot of this is due to how popular mobile and pc f2p gacha games are.

Thing is people keep complaining about the dark female being Boobs McFallingout.

Did you guys forget about the dark female who is Boobs McFallingout in awakening?

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Aversa

People say it got worse but frankly I don't see it.

Now if you're comparing it to the old games sure, but the designs are no more risque than what is shown in awakening.

They haven't forgotten about it and people have complained about it. I don't think its fair to blame Kozaki when a lot of this is on the new art director as well.
 
Thing is people keep complaining about the dark female being Boobs McFallingout.

Did you guys forget about the dark female who is Boobs McFallingout in awakening?

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Aversa

People say it got worse but frankly I don't see it.

Now if you're comparing it to the old games sure, but the designs are no more risque than what is shown in awakening.
Yeah, Aversa was pretty...interesting. Looking at her wiki page and never knew about this before LOL
 
I'm kind of mixed on this. I don't mind the idea of My Castle and the idea's been done well in games like Suikoden and Breath of Fire. The facerubbing and bath stuff is really skeevy though and I really dislike the additions. Yeah, I know they're optional and minor in the grand scheme of things, but optional doesn't mean it's immune to criticism and these are symptoms of a larger problem, which is pandering to a crowd that, quite frankly, I'd rather not be associated with and rather the series not be associated with, and that's lonely men and women who are obsessed with "waifus/husbandos" and perv on underage boys and girls. The fanservice DLC and shipping focus in Awakening was the beginning of this. The bathhouse feature now allows you to reenact that tired "guy wanders into girl side of bathhouse and gets beaten up and that's funny for some reason" cliche that's mainly found in bad anime.

The amie feature is on a whole other level though. First off, it doesn't even make sense in context of the story. You're supposed to be the general of an army; he's not going to call random people into his room just to pet them or touch their faces. Secondly, the reactions are cringeworthy and basically player worship. Thirdly, I'd rather not give creeps the feature to feel up their favorite cartoon character. Yeah, I know it's gender-neutral. I don't give a fuck, it's still creepy as shit. I also know people are going to point out this was done in pokemon but pokemon are pets; these are supposed to be human beings.

Why is it so creepy, exactly? Showing a FE character this kind of goofy affection isn't so different from doing so to a Pokemon. They're like digital toys, dolls, that people form varying connections with. In the same way you may sillily dote on your Piggy Bunny doll in real life, this amie thing allows you to dote on your favorite FE characters. It's just another way to create a connection between the player and the characters, albeit an especially dumb way.

Seriously, rubbing a person's face in real life just to see them blush or whatever would probably be creepy. Rubbing Overly Serious and Buff Knight Dude's face and enjoying his reaction in the context of this amie thing doesn't really strike me as creepy. Just a dumb, goofy thing.

This is probably the worst thing you can do to the characters from a writing perspective; in the story, I'm not supposed to see Marx or Camilla or whoever as a doll but as a person. In a good story, people act in a somewhat realistic fashion. How am I supposed to take the characters seriously if they're little more than dolls who exist to be felt up and worship the ground I walk on? It's a serious disconnect and to people like me, who care about their characterization, it does the complete opposite of connect me to the character, ironic given the feature's purpose.

Seriously, stuff like Persona's got the stigma of "waifu simulator" by people because of some of the otaku pandering they did. It doesn't matter that dating barely plays a role in Persona 4, people who like the game are associated and lumped in with the creeps who obsess over dating and potentially fucking the characters, and part of it is because of some of the pandering they added into Golden and the spinoffs. I don't want that to be the legacy of FE or its fans.

None of this stuff is a dealbreaker for me or anything, I'm still going to try the game out. But man, what a waste of all those HD models.
 
Yeah, Yukari's boobs are just out of control. Look at these things:

Crazy.
lol, at least they look normal compared to SMT Devil Survivor 2.

Io_Nitta_Ingame_Portraits.jpg

Fumi_ingame_portraits.jpg


The girls in DeSu2 break my immersion so much I refuse to interact with the characters because I can't not laugh at their design.

/badcharacterdesignthread :P
 
lol, at least they look normal compared to SMT Devil Survivor 2.

Io_Nitta_Ingame_Portraits.jpg

Fumi_ingame_portraits.jpg


The girls in DeSu2 break my immersion so much I refuse to interact with the characters because I can't not laugh at their design.

/badcharacterdesignthread :P

Oh its she who defies gravity with her breasts (girl on top)
physiques.jpg
 
lol, at least they look normal compared to SMT Devil Survivor 2.

Io_Nitta_Ingame_Portraits.jpg

Fumi_ingame_portraits.jpg


The girls in DeSu2 break my immersion so much I refuse to interact with the characters because I can't not laugh at their design.

/badcharacterdesignthread :P
I love how the one girl's jacket is designed perfectly around her boobs. Must be a special store she shops at designed for big racks.

And Aversa's chapter is a pain.
 
I had missed out on some of the previous FE games so was not sure if they ever added those classes / characters into the series at one point or another.

Valkyria Chronicles 3 had an elderly woman as one of the protagonists. Was a pretty good character too with how she was written.



Thats most likely the closest thing we will ever get to Yolanda lol
We definitely need more kickass granny type character in games.
Its too bad that we dont have any characters like this for FE. Since am sure Kozaki Yusuke most def could do some good designs for some thats why.
He definitely can, after all he is the same guy who draw fanart for Cookie Clicker Granny


I thought Awakening's character designs blew too aside from a few characters.

Absolutely though this time, Kozaki really tripped himself with Camilla, and whoever let the design pass through. Such stupid design that on par with Nowi's outfit. I mean, in the past he still gives iron plated mail for female character while also giving naughty windows that is not cleavage like Cherche back. But cleavage and not to mention the jiggling, that just too much.

To be fair though, it's quite unfair to blame all design oddities on Kozaki alone. After all, he's the same guy who designed Miriel, Lucina, Anna, both three characters which don't show any skins, which is odd for Anna since by her class it's easily to make it so. Since this is a game, Kozaki not designing the character by himself. Director, an/or art director might be involved in this, and for the former they usually ask the character designer to design a particular character that follow list of criteria that made by them. While I don't how it works over there at IntSys, character design wouldn't get through at least it got approval from whoever that got authority for that.

So yeah, I want to know who from IntSys that responsible for Camilla design.....and Nowi
 
They could have added sex scenes to every character and somehow it would have felt less weird than head rubbing mode(with the exception of perhaps Nowi ...ugh.)
 
They could have added sex scenes to every character and somehow it would have felt less weird than head rubbing mode(with the except of perhaps Nowi ...ugh).
Yeah, uh... I kind of disagree with this.
 
I wonder if there is any relationship between present female idols (pop singers, actors, etc) and female characters in games.

Could this be an explanation as to why there has been a sudden change in design in games?

I admit, the outfits in feif are a bit... 'risque', but isn't your average music star shaking there ass on television in skimpy clothing? (Just look at the whole 'twerk craze')

Not making excuses for Nintendo, but I feel there is some sort of cultural influence that is happening here. I don't blame them for being 'current' and appealing to a younger, less traditional audience.

Whatever keeps the sequels coming?

Definitely, I keep saying that the core reason is the general otaku (anime/manga) moe trend, which owns a lot to the pop idol culture (and vice versa). Fire Emblem has ALWAYS been very heavily influenced by its contemporaries in Japan; older games draw from the older iterations of fantasy fiction, and take a lot of cues from them in both writing and design; LoLH, slayers, Vinland Saga and whatnots. The new FEs are a consequence of where general trends have led us to in current JP geek culture and fantasy fiction. And since awakening already proven that this is a seller, there's less reason for them to roll back to "classic" FE.
 
Absolutely though this time, Kozaki really tripped himself with Camilla, and whoever let the design pass through. Such stupid design that on par with Nowi's outfit. I mean, in the past he still gives iron plated mail for female character while also giving naughty windows that is not cleavage like Cherche back. But cleavage and not to mention the jiggling, that just too much.

So yeah, I want to know who from IntSys that responsible for Camilla design.....and Nowi

The same person who came up with aversa?
 
He definitely can, after all he is the same guy who draw fanart for Cookie Clicker Granny
I absolutely love the design of Speed Buster (No More Heroes)

ClTF76r.jpg


Maybe people could fill a petition for a new No More Heroes game so he could go work there and leave Fire Emblem Character Designs in the, also very talented, hands of Senri Kita.
 
Yeah, uh... I kind of disagree with this.

I probably would have been okay with sex scenes consisting of two consenting adults a la Mass Effect or Dragon Age(minus characters like Nowi, because that Loli crap is weird), but this head rubbing mode just comes off as a lot more creepy to me.

Pokemon amie should not be added liberally to everything>.>;
 
Yeah, Yukari's boobs are just out of control. Look at these things:
HerTzmT.png

Crazy.

I yield! I yield!

I can't believe I got "Yuzu" and yukari confused! Wow. They dont even look the same.

Smt devil survivor!:

In my defense, I am sleepy.

Also, persona still has bikinis and hella fan service.

I ain't complaining tho.. Was just clarifying. Love me some boobies.
 
To be fair though, it's quite unfair to blame all design oddities on Kozaki alone. After all, he's the same guy who designed Miriel, Lucina, Anna, both three characters which don't show any skins, which is odd for Anna since by her class it's easily to make it so. Since this is a game, Kozaki not designing the character by himself. Director, an/or art director might be involved in this, and for the former they usually ask the character designer to design a particular character that follow list of criteria that made by them. While I don't how it works over there at IntSys, character design wouldn't get through at least it got approval from whoever that got authority for that.

So yeah, I want to know who from IntSys that responsible for Camilla design.....and Nowi
Yep, remember the art director also wanted to add kissing scenes in Awakening but was restrained?
I blame everything on him personally!!!

Also as a chara artist, Kozaki doesn't go to IS with designs and tell them "Use this", and he isn't even responsible for the personalities of the characters. It works more like this :
-IS gives Kozaki a pitch for a character (ie. : Physical + mental description)
-Kozaki sketches several drawings based on that description
-IS approves the one they like the most
Now if you're asked to draw a character that uses her assets to attract males so that she can rob them of their money, what would you do?

Also, your avatar just reminded me of this:
Just wondering how many people won't watch this now
even though it's the superior Star Wars
 
This is probably the worst thing you can do to the characters from a writing perspective; in the story, I'm not supposed to see Marx or Camilla or whoever as a doll but as a person. In a good story, people act in a somewhat realistic fashion. How am I supposed to take the characters seriously if they're little more than dolls who exist to be felt up and worship the ground I walk on? It's a serious disconnect and to people like me, who care about their characterization, it does the complete opposite of connect me to the character, ironic given the feature's purpose.

Isn't it a little strange to view amie from a writing perspective, though? This is a video game, not a book. There is going to be a story throughout which proper characterization will take place, and that should be able to co-exist with goofy gameplay mechanics like this one. Actually, without decent characterization, amie would be almost pointless. It's almost like this mini pocket dimension within the game, where you'll be able to see these characters you've gotten to know in a different (especially silly) light. Why would you care to do that without a preexisting connection to the characters?

A good story is allowed to take breaks from "realism," anyway. A bit of subversive humor can add depth to characters, add soul. I would say video game stories especially usually benefit from not taking themselves overly seriously.

But on the subject of dolls, people who dote on them tend to project personalities onto them. The thing with fictional characters is we often have plenty of room to do the same with them, and in a way, that lends itself to good characterization. Amie is another venue for people to make their projections. Going back to Overly Serious and Buff Knight Dude, I'm sure some of the people enjoying his personality will get a kick from rubbing his smug face and bringing a smile to it; or otherwise, seeing him in this goofy light will add an element to him that balances out his being "overly serious and buff." It is ultimately up to you.

And that is why the eagerness to see such gross perversion in this mechanic is off-putting to me. It is like a statement of low faith in humanity. Something that exists in Pokemon can't be that inherently perverse, and nothing about it existing in FE specifically changes the equation much to me.
 
The same person who came up with aversa?

At least Aversa is not part of the main cast and she isn't recruitable until DLC. But what if it is also the same person who said yes to Miriel, Anna, and Lucina (though for the latter I guess Kozaki will fight to the death for it)? I'm so fucking confused here. I don't whether I should be enraged, or disappointed. I feel I can't defend Kozaki anymore but then I see most of the Hoshido side and it's all Miriel all over again.

Kozaki should just continue with his Donyatsu

Maybe people could fill a petition for a new No More Heroes game so he could go work there and leave Fire Emblem Character Designs in the, also very talented, hands of Senri Kita.

The one who responsible for choosing the character designer is IntSys, not Kozaki by himself (I mean, who would in sane mind refused to work for such long running series?). I don't think IntSys will hire Senri Kita again, not because she isn't talented, but maybe to keep the series aesthetic feels different to each game.

There are lot of character designer out there who capable of creating elegant designs. What I found funny is that some "anime" labeled games such as Atelier series also have tradition of hiring great character. Kishida Mel is responsible for Astrid Zexis and Esty Erhart, while Hidari is pretty almost every character in Dusk Trilogies(what I mean is that all of them are excellent) (bonus also Toukiden characters, all is pretty cool and elegant). I think any character designer can create skinless designs even if such thing isn't to their liking. But it all ends up to the director of the game. Video game after all, is a joint effort.

Also, your avatar just reminded me of this:

Just wondering how many people won't watch this now
even though it's the superior Star Wars

Yeah, my avatar is the token fat guy of the series, I know.
and contextless Siegfried-Reinhard picture always crack me up
EDIT: Holy shit, I just read that part of your post about the kissing scene. I better look up for this guy later.
 
Something that exists in Pokemon can't be that inherently perverse, and nothing about it existing in FE specifically changes the equation much to me.

I am unable to see things from this perspective. It doesn't even exist in Pokemon in the first place, because a minigame where you stroke people's faces is completely and totally different from one where you pet animals.

It's very clear what this feature is intended to be and who it is designed to appeal to.
 
Definitely, I keep saying that the core reason is the general otaku (anime/manga) moe trend, which owns a lot to the pop idol culture (and vice versa). Fire Emblem has ALWAYS been very heavily influenced by its contemporaries in Japan; older games draw from the older iterations of fantasy fiction, and take a lot of cues from them in both writing and design; LoLH, slayers, Vinland Saga and whatnots. The new FEs are a consequence of where general trends have led us to in current JP geek culture and fantasy fiction. And since awakening already proven that this is a seller, there's less reason for them to roll back to "classic" FE.
Yeah, they even kind of admit it in the Iwata Asks of Fire Emblem: Awakening during the section they talk about the involvment of Kozaki Yusuke as a character designer...

Kozaki This was my first time to design a game with so many characters, so it was a challenge.

Iwata How did that come about?

Kozaki I got an e-mail through my homepage asking if I would do about 60 characters. I replied, "Is that for Fire Emblem?" and they were like, "I can't reveal the title right now." (laughs)

Iwata Oh, so that's how it began. How did you come to ask Kozaki-san for his participation?

Kusakihara I wanted this game to be something new and powerful. So when I thought about the conditions for the visual aspect, I was looking for someone with the skill to make a distinction between all the characters—from pretty girls to muscly older guys and monsters—as well as someone with speed.

Iwata That's quite a lot of conditions.

Kusakihara Yes. Then I hit upon Kozaki-san. Actually, this isn't his first contact with the series. He worked on illustrations for the Fire Emblem trading card game, so it was a curious turn of events.

Iwata There were difficulties aside from the number of characters and their variety, weren't there?

Kozaki Yes, and that was the biggest thing. The fans have raised the series this whole time, so simply designing as usual wouldn't appeal to new fans. For that reason, we aimed for design that would bring in new players. To be honest, in the past, I've tried Fire Emblem a few times but always stopped partway through. I didn't think it was boring, but it was difficult to come into the series in the middle. I was that kind of person, which actually inspired me to accept this job.

Iwata When it came to the mission of spreading the game, you understood the motivation to which you needed to respond.

Kozaki Yes, that clicked with me.

-----------------------------------

The one who responsible for choosing the character designer is IntSys, not Kozaki by himself (I mean, who would in sane mind refused to work for such long running series?). I don't think IntSys will hire Senri Kita again, not because she isn't talented, but maybe to keep the series aesthetic feels different to each game.
We are not supposed to make sense, we must blame him for everything wrong in the cast of the game...
/s
 
I am unable to see things from this perspective. It doesn't even exist in Pokemon in the first place, because a minigame where you stroke people's faces is completely and totally different from one where you pet animals.

It's very clear what this feature is intended to be and who it is designed to appeal to.

People who write FE yaoi, I guess?
 
At least Aversa is not part of the main cast and she isn't recruitable until DLC. But what if it is also the same person who said yes to Miriel, Anna, and Lucina (though for the latter I guess Kozaki will fight to the death for it)? I'm so fucking confused here. I don't whether I should be enraged, or disappointed. I feel I can't defend Kozaki anymore but then I see most of the Hoshido side and it's all Miriel all over again.

Kozaki should just continue with his Donyatsu

No, they both come from exactly the same place. The dark, "evil" side with skimpy clothes because sex is evil and purity is innocence is a trope that spanned even all the way back to the story of Adam and Eve. The only difference is that you can choose to be part of the dark side in this game.
 
Kozaki Yes, and that was the biggest thing. The fans have raised the series this whole time, so simply designing as usual wouldn't appeal to new fans. For that reason, we aimed for design that would bring in new players. To be honest, in the past, I've tried Fire Emblem a few times but always stopped partway through. I didn't think it was boring, but it was difficult to come into the series in the middle. I was that kind of person, which actually inspired me to accept this job.
I guess that's why we're getting characters like this:
Honestly, if I just saw this character without context, I'd have no idea it was Fire Emblem. I'd assume it was some Idea Factory style magical girl gamee character or something. Takumi is pretty sexy, though. I like dudes with long hair.
 
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