Support NeoGAF

[Refreshment.01]

Contrary to the thread title, he's asking for the first game to use dual analogue as the default configuration, as per the very first sentence of the post you quoted. GoldenEye may have been the first game to offer such a setup, but it's most certainly not the default configuration, which in turn renders GE an invalid answer.

i know that JaseC. But the conditioning he makes is non sensical. Or he doesn't make a case for why that condition is important. If we keep reading the original post, he clearly is interested in finding out whcih game used that interface in a console for the first time.

Of course is not set by default in Golden Eye since it requires two controllers. XD

In the end Turok is the pioneer. The N64 established the base on how these games would be played on consoles until the present. The important part is controlling the camera with a thumbstick, after all, the most precise and optimal way to control FPS is done with a mouse and 4 awkwardly placed digital keys for movement.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Turok had you moving with the C buttons and aiming with the stick by default. How is that two stick layout?

Same concept. There just weren't 2 sticks.

 

[Shambalakan]

I think this was it?

lol
Was the controls really that bad or people weren't familiar with these controls? or maybe both!

 

[MegaManTrigger]

lol
Was the controls really that bad or people weren't familiar with these controls? or maybe both!

Likely that at the time, people couldn't grasp that one could use two analog sticks simultaneously AND still transition nicely to face buttons/triggers. Especially, since the analog stick was always tied to movement, and people didn't yet understand the significance of another analog stick.

 

[Nostremitus]

Why ask a question that you already know the answer to and then lead off with stating that responders aren't allowed to give the correct answer?

Face it OP, it was GoldenEye. It doesn't matter that it used a split controller or that it wasn't the default.

It was the first twinstick FPS.

 

[dtcm83]

Timesplitters on PS2 was my first, played with inverted scheme.

 

[GavinGT]

Timesplitters was probably my first exposure to it. It's weird because I don't remember it being particularly difficult for me to learn it.

 

[Argonomic]

I didn't learn about WASD until Half-Life came out, felt like a revelation.

I was a child of doom, so I made up my own key config, "werd". More ergonomic than wasd, which kind of screws with your middle finger and wrist.

The weird thing is that I leaned to circle strafe backwards. I strafe left with the R key and right with the W key. Reverse strafe keys saved me a day or so learning to circle strafe. The downside is having to carefully configure every keyboard/mouse game I've played since.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

I experienced it in Timesplitters before Halo, but I feel like there was a PS1 Medal of Honor game that had it too

 

[RollerMeister]

Not relevant to the current discussion, but something I just remembered, Smash TV on the NES allowed you to use both controllers to turn the game into a twin-stick shooter. Sort of.

 

[Sub_Level]

2 controllers just to control a console FPS decently. That is unbelievably shitty.

 

[Bishop89]

I think this was it?

which person at gamespot said this?

 

[Dryk]

Yeah, I'd be tempted to give the credit to Turok. The N64 controller itself was lacking a second analogue stick, but the game was clearly going for this kind of control scheme with it's use of the C-buttons.

Goldeneye had a similar control scheme, but the axes weren't set up the way we think of them now so its impossible to use

 

[Branduil]

I honestly struggle to remember how I ever managed to play legacy FPS games.

Well, a game like Goldeneye was designed to be played with its control scheme. Most shooting took place on a horizontal plane, with a very generous auto-aim. And you could just hold R if you needed more precise aim.

 

[Shambalakan]

Likely that at the time, people couldn't grasp that one could use two analog sticks simultaneously AND still transition nicely to face buttons/triggers. Especially, since the analog stick was always tied to movement, and people didn't yet understand the significance of another analog stick.

That's right. It should be a strange control method those days!

which person at gamespot said this?

Steven Garrett

The game's control setup is its most terrifying element. The left analog stick moves you forward, back, and strafes right and left, while the right analog stick turns you and can be used to look up and down. Too often, you'll turn to face a foe and find that your weapon is aimed at the floor or ceiling while the alien gleefully hacks away at your midsection. Add to the mix a few other head scratchers - such as how the triangle button controls item and health use - and you'll be wondering how Sony let this get by without requesting a few different control configuration options.

I like the end part of review:

Fans of console first-person shooters or the Alien film series will probably be better off waiting for Fox's recently announced Aliens: Colonial Marines for the PlayStation 2. While no concrete details have been announced for the game yet, this is one instance where the unknown is preferable to the devil you know.

 

[majik13]

Played GE at launch
Played MOH1 at launch
Played Turok at launch
Played Red Faction at launch
Played Timesplitters at launch
Played Halo several months after

Don't think I played the Alien game.

Anyways dont recall which was the total first to set the DA standard as we know it. Anyways I had a ton of fun with all these games.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Why ask a question that you already know the answer to and then lead off with stating that responders aren't allowed to give the correct answer?

Face it OP, it was GoldenEye. It doesn't matter that it used a split controller or that it wasn't the default.

It was the first twinstick FPS.

Because Goldeneye did nothing to set today's standard of FPS controls by not making it standard and making you need 2 controllers to use twin sticks, it's ridiculous.

From the posts I've been reading here Im guessing the answer was either Alien Resurrection on PS1 (im still puzzled as to how that game controlled with a non-Dualshock) or whatever this Uprising X is.

Halo CE was certainly not the first but I think did standardize it along with only two weapons at a time and regenerating health. Goldeneye set solid foundations but Halo took that ball and ran with it.

 

[JaseC]

i know that JaseC. But the conditioning he makes is non sensical. Or he doesn't make a case for why that condition is important. If we keep reading the original post, he clearly is interested in finding out whcih game used that interface in a console for the first time.

Again, he is clearly interested in discovering which game supported a dual analogue configuration as the default control scheme. You're divorcing "what was the very first console first person shooter that embraced the two sticks for moving and aiming?" and "So which game revolutionized gaming by adopting the control scheme that largely has remained the default one to this day?" from the contextual boundaries the OP finalises in the opening line of his post and asserting the matter of whether or not the configuration is the default is a nonsensical or unimportant detail, which is disingenuous at best.

 

[Correctomundo]

From the posts I've been reading here Im guessing the answer was either Alien Resurrection on PS1 (im still puzzled as to how that game controlled with a non-Dualshock)

It's been a while since I played it with a standard controller (and the absolute last time I played through it a few years ago, I used the PS Mouse), but I believe it was similar to the pre-Dual Shock era of PS1 FPSs, that being digital pad moves you forward and backward and turns you. L1 and R1 strafe, with face buttons used for shooting, activating things, switching weapons, and a held button allows vertical movement.

I'm about to go take care of some chores, but after I'm finished with them, I'll pull the game out and fire it up and see exactly how it was.


UPDATE: Alien Resurrection's digital only mode has to two available control options. The default is -

D pad = Movement forward, backward, and turning.
L2 and R2 = Strafe left and right
L1 = Aim
R1 = Action
Triangle = Quick 180 turn
Square = Center view. Has to be held as view recenters.
Circle = Use
X = Fire

Holding circle and pressing the Rs cycles through the weapons, while using the Ls cycles through consumable items.



Checking Medal of Honor (the original, not Underground), and it does indeed have a dual analog mode (option 4).

Sticks function as you'd expect.
Circle = cycle weapon
X = Jump
L1 = Crawl
L2 = Aim (fine aim as in Goldeneye)
R1 = Reload/Action
R2 = Fire
R3 = Center view

 

[JimiNutz]

I think Medal of Honor predates Alien Resurrection. So it would probably be that.

Yeah I remember playing the original Medal of Honour on PS1. Loved that game at the time.

 

[Nostremitus]

Because Goldeneye did nothing to set today's standard of FPS controls by not making it standard and making you need 2 controllers to use twin sticks, it's ridiculous.

From the posts I've been reading here Im guessing the answer was either Alien Resurrection on PS1 (im still puzzled as to how that game controlled with a non-Dualshock) or whatever this Uprising X is.

Halo CE was certainly not the first but I think did standardize it along with only two weapons at a time and regenerating health. Goldeneye set solid foundations but Halo took that ball and ran with it.

None of that changes the fact that it was the first. Trying to say that the dominant FPS of it's generation, the game that popularized FPS on console, didn't influence the games that followed just because dual sticks were optional is odd.

 

[nkarafo]

Am i the only one who played Turok with the D-pad instead of the C-buttons?

D-pad for movement (left thumb)
Stick for aiming (right thumb)

Just like how it is now, but with a D-pad instead of a second stick. I's called "left hand" in the options but i'm not left handed. This scheme was much closer to WASD-Mouse as well.

 

[Jerry Orbach]

 

[sTiTcH AU]

Red Faction PS2?

It was the first one I played twin sticks at least.

 

[Raiden]

I give credit to Goldeneye. Even if the controller only had one stick they implented the idea to the world.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

GoldenEye had it (2 controllers), Alien Resurrection defaulted to it, Halo standardized it.

Timesplitters came out way before Halo and controlled a whole hell of a lot better as well.

God the original XBox controller was a travesty.

 

[MrCunningham]

I know the thread is talking about console games, but The Terminator: Future Shock is the first FPS game on the PC that I have ever played that fully required the use of mouse aiming:

This game was released in 1995. Sure there were FPS games before this one that had freelook like Doom, Marathon and even Lucas Arts Dark Forces, but none of those titles required the player to aim vertically. Future Shock has aerial enemies like the flying HK's and you did have to aim up to shoot at them. Or in some cases aim down to shoot enemies below you. I owned the game back then, but even at the time I didn't quite understand the concept of keyboard and mouse controls. It really was a new thing for me. Video here: https://youtu.be/pBNSThWSZu4?t=133

But then again, there is also Descent that pre-dates this game by a year that used full keyboard and mouse controls as well. But that game was much less of a traditional FPS and borderline ship simulator.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Oh my god people saying Goldeneye are fucking obnoxious as hell.

 

[nkarafo]

Oh my god people saying Goldeneye are fucking obnoxious as hell.

Because you think it's false or because it's against OP's rules?

 

[Alex_Mexico]

None of that changes the fact that it was the first. Trying to say that the dominant FPS of it's generation, the game that popularized FPS on console, didn't influence the games that followed just because dual sticks were optional is odd.

Does that really matter when 99% of Goldeneye players didn't even know that was an option? I'm a hardcore gamer and I didn't even know it was possible until years after the game came out!

Also take into account that the vast majority of time gamers spent with Goldeneye it wasn't in the campaign, it was the multiplayer and there was no possible way of playing dual stick if you had three or four players because there's not enough controller ports on an N64 to support 2 controllers per person! Ergo, hardly anyone ever used this control scheme anyway even if they knew about it Simply because it was impossible!

Goldeneye proved FPS games could work on consoles and did a lot of things right. Standardizing dual analog controls on consoles with the modern scheme we use to this day was NOT one of those things.

And then there's the matter of me being the thread creator. I asked for console FPSes with dual analog out of the box and by default and specified Goldeneye doesn't count. Drop it.

 

[Krejlooc]

Gun Griffon 2 on the Sega Saturn in 1998.

 

[nkarafo]

Goldeneye proved FPS games could work on consoles and did a lot of things right. Standardizing dual analog controls on consoles with the modern scheme we use to this day was NOT one of those things.

It's a shame though. I did discover the control scheme back in the day and i thought it was awesome. The developers knew that dual analog controls is probably the best way to play a console FPS, that's why they included it in the first place. I mean, 2 controllers is such a weird option to have that they might as well not bother. But they did and that shows me something. It must have sucked for them to not be able to implement this idea as default, only because dual analog controllers didn't exist when the game was made... Therefore, losing the chance to revolutionize this part too. Personally, i still give most of the credit to them.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Gun Griffon 2 on the Sega Saturn in 1998.

I think the OP stipulated "by default", hence why Goldeneye was dismissed (which came out before GG2).

 

[Krejlooc]

I think the OP stipulated "by default", hence why Goldeneye was dismissed (which came out before GG2).

But then OP clarified that nobody knew about dual stick support in Goldeneye, hence why it didn't count.

Twin stick support was a selling point of gun griffon 2. Obviously you need the twin stick controller to use it, but support is obvious unlike using two entire controllers in Goldeneye.

A comparable example to his goldeneye comment would be Panzer Dragoon Zwei (ignoring of course that it's not an FPS). Its dual analog controls are not obvious (because you need to use two analog controllers to achieve it - something no other game supported), nor advertised, much like goldeneye (and that predates goldeneye).

 

[Refreshment.01]

Again, he is clearly interested in discovering which game supported a dual analogue configuration as the default control scheme. You're divorcing "what was the very first console first person shooter that embraced the two sticks for moving and aiming?" and "So which game revolutionized gaming by adopting the control scheme that largely has remained the default one to this day?" from the contextual boundaries the OP finalises in the opening line of his post and asserting the matter of whether or not the configuration is the default is a nonsensical or unimportant detail, which is disingenuous at best.

He is clearly interested in hearing what he wants to hear. He is doing a poor job explaining why the conditioning is relevant and he is even contradicting himslef:

"So which game revolutionized gaming by adopting the control scheme that largely has remained the default one to this day?"

From the posts I've been reading here Im guessing the answer was either Alien Resurrection on PS1 (im still puzzled as to how that game controlled with a non-Dualshock) or whatever this Uprising X is.

Does that really matter when 99% of Goldeneye players didn't even know that was an option? I'm a hardcore gamer and I didn't even know it was possible until years after the game came out!

As you see above he thinks that Alien Resurrection and Uprising X are the ones that fit the criteria. Yet those are clearly at odds with other assessments from him that i quited above. By his own appreciation, those 2 games would be too obscure and their general public expostion relatively low to manage to standarize a certain type of FPS controls.

You are calling me disengenous (personnal jabs are always appreciated so thak you). But what would you call a person that say... comes asking to know about one of the first videogames ever created but conditioned the answers by saying: "Don't say Tennis for Two because sports games doesnt count, since they are real games." But yes, im the disingenous basterd here XD

Is just too an arbitrary conditioning for no actual gain in terms of finding the truth. Basically the answer that would fit his criteria best would be Halo: CE but that one is far from the first twin thumbstick shooter on consoles. But Halo was so influential that it standarized a lot of stuff.

 

[yurinka]

To play an FPS with twin-stick you need a gamepad with two analog sticks. Like the PSX did for the first time in consoles, and even before the DualShock: with its predecesor that was the rumble-free Dual Analog controller for PS released a few months before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Analog_Controller


Games like Mechwarrior 2 (or others like Colony Wars or Descent II that aren't 100% FPS because feature 360 movement) supported Dual Analog controller in the original PlayStation, but can't remember how did they use the analogs.

Obviously that bizarre idea of playing in a N64 with 2 pads can't count, because it isn't the same (to play in A pad with dual analogs), and wasn't the normal way to play that games. It would make more sense to mention Magnavox Odyssey than the N64 for twin-stick gameplay, but it didn't feature 3D FPS.

 

[Krejlooc]

To play an FPS with twin-stick you need a gamepad with two analog sticks. Like the DualShock had in PS1 for the first time in consoles.

Actually, the first dual analog gamepad belongs on the Sega Genesis:

Quite a few games actually support this, too, although none of them are FPS games.

Games like Descent II or Mechwarrior 2 supported Dual Analog controller in the original PlayStation, but can't remember how did they use the analogs.

The Saturn had a similar dual analog flight stick. Unlike the PSX one, it was sold in pieces - to get both analog sticks you had to buy two controllers. As such, only one game supports its dual analog set up - Panzer Dragoon Zwei.

 

[JaseC]

He is clearly interested in hearing what he wants to hear. He is doing a poor job explaining why the conditioning is relevant and he is even contradicting himslef:

"So which game revolutionized gaming by adopting the control scheme that largely has remained the default one to this day?"

You're doing precisely what I stated in my post. Again. "My understanding is correct if I take your topic and doodle over it with my red pen" is not how discussions work, I'm afraid. You can argue against the OP's claim that GoldenEye didn't having much of an effect on the standardisation of FPS control schemes on consoles without resorting to deliberately misrepresenting the topic at hand.

 

[Refreshment.01]

But then OP clarified that nobody knew about dual stick support in Goldeneye, hence why it didn't count.

Twin stick support was a selling point of gun griffon 2. Obviously you need the twin stick controller to use it, but support is obvious unlike using two entire controllers in Goldeneye.

A comparable example to his goldeneye comment would be Panzer Dragoon Zwei (ignoring of course that it's not an FPS). Its dual analog controls are not obvious (because you need to use two analog controllers to achieve it - something no other game supported), nor advertised, much like goldeneye (and that predates goldeneye).

You mean the Saturn 3D Pad or Twin Sticks for Zwei?

 

[Krejlooc]

You mean the Saturn 3D Pad or Twin Sticks for Zwei?

Neither, I mean this:

Using the 3D analog controller only gives you single analog stick support. The twin sticks are not supported in Zwei. This is using dual analog sticks. You need two analog flight sticks to unlock dual analog mode in Panzer Dragoon Zwei.

One stick controls your dragon with analog controls, the other controls your cursor with analog controls. Basically it controls like Crimson Dragon on the Xbox One. This feature is unadvertised and wasn't common knowledge until pretty recently.

 

[Oppo]

man we're not even 100 posts in and someone is busting out the red text.

Turok invented twin stick console gaming like Xerox invented the mouse. might be technically true but only in the narrowest sense. very few people learned about it (ooh) from Turok therefore not revolutionary. need people for a revolution. it was an odd hack mode.

Halo was the Apple mouse. the one that introduced it to the masses. the one everyone remembers.

 

[atpbx]

I think this was it?

I remember this, what about alien trilogy?

Apparently 18 months too early.


Boooooo.

 

[Refreshment.01]

man we're not even 100 posts in and someone is busting out the red text.

Turok invented twin stick console gaming like Xerox invented the mouse. might be technically true but only in the narrowest sense. very few people learned about it (ooh) from Turok therefore not revolutionary. need people for a revolution. it was an odd hack mode.

Halo was the Apple mouse. the one that introduced it to the masses. the one everyone remembers.

Good post Nerfgun.

Worth considering the definition of "narrow" here. (Spare me the quotes and give me credit because i refrained to use the red text of doom) XD

The leading console for FPS in the 5th generation was the N64. i think is a pretty safe asumption to make. Ok, which was the main control method for the mayority of shooters in the console?

It was the Turok style.

Was that enough people to fill your criteria of a "Revolution" or it's just a tiny mob?

The N64 ws the console that stablished how we control 3D console games today, so it's natural that you can trace a lot of stuff to this stage in time.

You're doing precisely what I stated in my post. Again. "My understanding is correct if I take your topic and doodle over it with my red pen" is not how discussions work, I'm afraid. You can argue against the OP's claim that GoldenEye didn't having much of an effect on the standardisation of FPS control schemes on consoles without resorting to deliberately misrepresenting the topic at hand.

Yet you ignore the part where he owns statements are in contradiction. That's not fair debate at all my friend XD

A real shame the post was wasted.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

But then OP clarified that nobody knew about dual stick support in Goldeneye, hence why it didn't count.

Twin stick support was a selling point of gun griffon 2. Obviously you need the twin stick controller to use it, but support is obvious unlike using two entire controllers in Goldeneye.

A comparable example to his goldeneye comment would be Panzer Dragoon Zwei (ignoring of course that it's not an FPS). Its dual analog controls are not obvious (because you need to use two analog controllers to achieve it - something no other game supported), nor advertised, much like goldeneye (and that predates goldeneye).

Fair points, but I think the key part was still "by default" rather than advertised or included as an optional scheme within the menus. GG2 was certainly not by default.

Damn though, seeing all these great looking old twin sticks makes me want to break out my Steel Battalion one more time. The quality and variety of peripherals has really declined in recent years.

 

[JaseC]

Yet you ignore the part where he owns statements are in contradiction. That's not fair debate at all my friend XD

A real shame the post was wasted.

I'm not ignoring that at all because it doesn't exist. I've already explained to you -- and quite clearly, I might add -- that the comments are only in disservice to the OP's desired topic if you divorce them of their context. You insist upon misrepresenting the OP in some sort of misguided attempt to paint him a fool and declare victory, but your flagrant intellectual dishonesty serves only to harm yourself.

 

[Durante]

lol
Was the controls really that bad or people weren't familiar with these controls? or maybe both!

The controls were really bad. Dual analog controls are still really bad. People just got used to it, and software got better at hiding it ;p

 

[BradleyLove]

Every time this subject comes up, everyone ignores Descent which was released in January 1996. That had traditional dual analog controls.

By comparison, GoldenEye didn't come out until 18 months later. Turok was 14 months later.

 

[Santiako]

Please stop using the red text, it's really hard to read.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I'm not ignoring that at all because it doesn't exist. I've already explained to you -- and quite clearly, I might add -- that the comments are only in disservice to the OP's desired topic if you divorce them of their context. You insist upon misrepresenting the OP in some sort of misguided attempt to paint him a fool and declare victory, but your flagrant intellectual dishonesty serves only to harm yourself.

If you are not ignoring them at all, why have you failed to adress them? Why wave the contradictions aside instead of properly refer to them and delcare why they don't hold any ground?

Is not wrong that you disagree with me JaseC. However, is unjust to pass judgement to some statements that you deem questionable yet pass a blind eye to other ones that are guilty as much just because they are coming from other person.

In that sense you are not been better than the OP or me here JaseC, certainly not once you fall into the necessity to insult the other side. Don't know why you are taking this so personally really.

For example JaseC, let's say that one poster comes up with some very irreverent topic with the intention to troll. i wouldn't think that siding with the topic creator because: " Hey! His Topic His Rules Man!" is a fair stance to take.

Please let me know what you think sir XD

Please stop using the red text, it's really hard to read.

i'll promise to contain myself just for you. But in this thread only XD

 

[Glowsquid]

Many say Halo is what standardizsed dual analog, but I'm not sure agree. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of PS2 fps had already adopted that control scheme (Timesplitters/Unreal Tournament/Red Faction. Quake III Revolution had an option to use it but it was not the default) and even before that, some console games that didn't have dual analog controls had pseudo-WASD controls (Turok, and some dreamcast ports like Quake 3 and Slave Zero). Halo did standardize what functions are on the controller and where they're mapped, but I think dual analog for FPS was already becoming the standard by that time.