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[Musky_Cheese]

I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase "One bad apple spoils the bunch". In this case we've had years and many instances of "bad apples". Responsible gun owners would understand why there is a movement calling for stricter gun laws. Responsible gun owners would support the movement, because if they are responsible themselves, they have nothing to fear apart some small tests and obtaining a license (if stricter gun laws actually went into effect. I would look at it like getting a drivers license and renewing that every few years.)
Responsible gun owners would not place their gun rights above rights of other innocent people (in this case children) to live without fear of being killed.

Be a responsible gun owner. Don't act like a child complaining their toy got taken away.

I understand your point of view. However I think you are wrong making the assumption that owners putting their rights above others. It’s not their rights... it’s the rights of every American. Even the rights that the protesters are protesting.

Those same gun owners disagreed with the government spying on you for “national security” because you have the right to privacy.

They disagree with the message of the protest, but not the protest. Because it’s their right to protest.

It’s rights that everyone has. And it’s choice to use certain rights and not others. But the rights are given to everyone.

 

[Coffe Time]

I understand your point of view. However I think you are wrong making the assumption that owners putting their rights above others. It’s not their rights... it’s the rights of every American. Even the rights that the protesters are protesting.

Those same gun owners disagreed with the government spying on you for “national security” because you have the right to privacy.

They disagree with the message of the protest, but not the protest. Because it’s their right to protest.

It’s rights that everyone has. And it’s choice to use certain rights and not others. But the rights are given to everyone.

So you think weapons shouldn't require testing and licensing like a car requires? Do you believe people who choose not to own guns should live with fear because there is no regulation on these weapons? Do you think its responsible for everyone in the US to carry a gun on them for protection?

 

[zelo-ca]

Do you think its responsible for everyone in the US to carry a gun on them for protection?

If they pass the background checks and are mentally stable then yes.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

So you think weapons shouldn't require testing and licensing like a car requires? Do you believe people who choose not to own guns should live with fear because there is no regulation on these weapons? Do you think its responsible for everyone in the US to carry a gun on them for protection?

No regulation? There is no regulation on guns?

 

[TrainedRage]

Man, fuck irresponsible gun owners giving us all a bad name. I think many people don't understand the American Revolution, and why we have a 2nd amendment. I wonder how many anti-gunners are from another country.

 

[gioGAF]

Responsible gun owners are usually not seeing any good legislation being presented. The call to ban AR15s is ridiculous (or firearms in general). Placing the onus solely on firearms is also not correct or constructive.

The problem is much more complex, and I'm not about to lose a right so a bunch of clueless people or people who want to avoid the real problems and need a scapegoat can further their goals. Maybe we should ban international travel so we can be safe, smh.

I don't think we are really going to get anywhere either. There are people on both sides that are blocking constructive dialogue.

 

[TheShadowLord]

I understand your point of view. However I think you are wrong making the assumption that owners putting their rights above others. It’s not their rights... it’s the rights of every American. Even the rights that the protesters are protesting.

Yeah, I don't think that is always true. At not at least in the same way as they defend the 2nd amendment and the first. If someone's four or even eight amendment was violated by law enforcement, what will they do? Take the matters into their own hand? Tell them to stop?

 

[Coffe Time]

No regulation? There is no regulation on guns?

Apparently laws and regulations are so lax that shootings happen nearly every week:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/oct/02/america-mass-shootings-gun-violence
And is ranked among 2nd and 3rd world countries in number of deaths:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...how-the-u-s-compares-to-the-rest-of-the-world

But it's important to note that gun owners value their rights to own a gun more than the safety of others. And I'm saying this knowing you stated otherwise:

However I think you are wrong making the assumption that owners putting their rights above others. It’s not their rights... it’s the rights of every American. Even the rights that the protesters are protesting.

Just because its the right of every American doesnt make it ok. Every person in the US also has a right to live. Gun laws are a hot topic these days because there is a problem in the US. People are paranoid about their guns being taken away- They scream "its my right!" while kids are being killed. Don't you see the problem here? That's why I'm saying responsible gun owners would recognize the issue and support stricter gun laws to help ensure people's right to live is not infringed.
Yes, gun owners (read americans, not people in other first world countries) value their rights to own a gun over other people's lives.

 

[family_guy]

Man, fuck irresponsible gun owners giving us all a bad name. I think many people don't understand the American Revolution, and why we have a 2nd amendment. I wonder how many anti-gunners are from another country.

Why do responsible gun owners think they own that title in perpetuity? You're not incapable of losing it one day and using that gun on someone else or yourself. I'm sure many of the people doing these mass shootings were sane and responsible at the time they acquired their guns.

 

[old]

This White House listening session is a farce. They’re thanking Trump for his leadership.

 

[KevinKeene]

If they pass the background checks and are mentally stable then yes.

Everybody is stable until their find their significant other in bed with another person and go berserk :/

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Everybody is stable until their find their significant other in bed with another person and go berserk :/

Dough kay

Someone’s attempting to force their way into my house. Should I try and pray them way?

 

[TrainedRage]

Why do responsible gun owners think they own that title in perpetuity? You're not incapable of losing it one day and using that gun on someone else or yourself. I'm sure many of the people doing these mass shootings were sane and responsible at the time they acquired their guns.

You're kidding right? Show me one mass shooting in the US where there wasn't a mental health issue brought up or previous infractions with the law. You can "what about" all day. Most gun owners are responsible and have undergone training. I can say with 100% confidence I'm not a psychopath and don't have anger problems or a weak will that would ever make me do a mass shooting.

 

[Joe T.]

This White House listening session is a farce. They’re thanking Trump for his leadership.

Nah, regardless of what comes of this it's good to have it televised. Trump gets a lot of heat for being some kind of monster, let's watch him deal with the fallout of this shooting head on. The dad with his three sons, who lost his daughter, followed up by one of the students struggling to get through his thoughts are powerful moments that will resonate with most of the country, regardless of your position on guns.

 

[family_guy]

You're kidding right? Show me one mass shooting in the US where there wasn't a mental health issue brought up or previous infractions with the law. You can "what about" all day. Most gun owners are responsible and have undergone training. I can say with 100% confidence I'm not a psychopath and don't have anger problems or a weak will that would ever make me do a mass shooting.

I think that you 100% believe that you would never do that, but it's not relevant. Life is not static and people can change. Was the Las Vegas shooter diagnosed with any mental health issues before he shot everyone up, or did they post-diagnose him to try and make sense out of why he would do it?

 

[Vinsanity.]

This White House listening session is a farce. They’re thanking Trump for his leadership.

The students and parents speaking to him all sound like they are speaking from the heart, and getting emotional...I don't think they are being farcical about anything they are saying. They sound very sincere and everyone is paying attention. They are allowed to thank him for listening to them after they speak to him - there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[TrainedRage]

I think that you 100% believe that you would never do that, but it's not relevant. Life is not static and people can change. Was the Las Vegas shooter diagnosed with any mental health issues before he shot everyone up, or did they post-diagnose him to try and make sense out of why he would do it?

Yeah people said that dude was crazy, had a rabid gambling addiction and mental health issues. Not the best example.

 

[KevinKeene]

Dough kay

Someone’s attempting to force their way into my house. Should I try and pray them way?

Here in Germany I don't live in fear of anyone 'forcing their way into my house'.

The transition period will be painful, yes. If you eventually ban guns, it'll mean that civilians don't have them anymore,but criminals still will. That's temporary, though. And once some time has passed, criminals won't have guns either. Because guns will be difficult to obtain (unless the USA are incompetent compared to Germany - surely that's not the case).

 

[family_guy]

Yeah people said that dude was crazy, had a rabid gambling addiction and mental health issues. Not the best example.

I heard about the gambling addiction, but that's not grounds to deny someone a gun. And can you link me to him being officially diagnosed with a mental disorder that would cause him to murder people? Someone saying that guy's crazy isn't a diagnosis. Many of us have done or said crazy things, but it actually doesn't make us crazy. There were also people that knew the guy that said they were shocked he could do what he did. Let's just say that everyone who has a gun passes a mental health examination. Well is that it? Just the one time? So that person gets the ability to own a gun for the rest of their life as if nothing could change. Or maybe we do regular mental health checks for gun owners. That would work out well right? I mean, what are you going to do if they don't pass the test the next time? Ask for the gun, back? I'm sure that person you diagnosed with mental issues is going to be happy to give it back.

People calling themselves responsible gun owners are giving themselves that title. No one gave it to them. There's no standard that they are being evaluated by. No one is coming in their home to regularly review their safety controls. They say they are responsible based on their own standards. It's like a parent saying, "I'm a great parent, but yeah I let my 5 yr old play GTA V." It's like okay, your standard is different than my standard.

 

[Durask]

Here in Germany I don't live in fear of anyone 'forcing their way into my house'.

The transition period will be painful, yes. If you eventually ban guns, it'll mean that civilians don't have them anymore,but criminals still will. That's temporary, though. And once some time has passed, criminals won't have guns either. Because guns will be difficult to obtain (unless the USA are incompetent compared to Germany - surely that's not the case).

You do know that here in Germany a lot of people own guns, right?

https://www.thelocal.de/20160616/five-things-to-know-about-guns-in-germany-us-gun-control-laws

 

[KevinKeene]

You do know that here in Germany a lot of people own guns, right?

https://www.thelocal.de/20160616/five-things-to-know-about-guns-in-germany-us-gun-control-laws

Did you read that article?

"One must also prove a specific and approved need for the weapon, which is mainly limited to use by hunters, competitive marksmen, collectors and security workers - not for self-defence."

That's a quintessential difference to the USA. Most guns in Germany belong to hunters or professional Schützenverein members. Regular citizens hardly own a gun. The opposite is true for the USA: Anyone can own a gun - and unfortunately does.

 

[Durask]

Here in Germany I don't live in fear of anyone 'forcing their way into my house'.

Why, because it can never happen?

These people thought so too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Washington,_D.C.,_mass_killing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders

And one of the reasons we know about those because those were a) very well off b) rich. When this happens to poor people, it barely makes the news.

 

[TrainedRage]

I heard about the gambling addiction, but that's not grounds to deny someone a gun. And can you link me to him being officially diagnosed with a mental disorder that would cause him to murder people? Someone saying that guy's crazy isn't a diagnosis. Many of us have done or said crazy things, but it actually doesn't make us crazy. There were also people that knew the guy that said they were shocked he could do what he did. Let's just say that everyone who has a gun passes a mental health examination. Well is that it? Just the one time? So that person gets the ability to own a gun for the rest of their life as if nothing could change. Or maybe we do regular mental health checks for gun owners. That would work out well right? I mean, what are you going to do if they don't pass the test the next time? Ask for the gun, back? I'm sure that person you diagnosed with mental issues is going to be happy to give it back.

People calling themselves responsible gun owners are giving themselves that title. No one gave it to them. There's no standard that they are being evaluated by. No one is coming in their home to regularly review their safety controls. They say they are responsible based on their own standards. It's like a parent saying, "I'm a great parent, but yeah I let my 5 yr old play GTA V." It's like okay, your standard is different than my standard.

"Investigators also revealed that Mr Paddock may have been treated for “unidentified medical conditions.” In October, Ms. Danley told investigators that Mr Paddock’s physical and mental health seemed to have deteriorated in recent months." - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-las-vegas-gunmans-preparations-a8157336.html

"An autopsy report on Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock said he had anti-anxiety medication in his system at the time of death, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal." - https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/us/stephen-paddock-autopsy-las-vegas/index.html

"Stephen Paddock: He was a high-stakes gambler on a losing streak, obsessed with cleanliness, possibly bipolar and was having difficulties with his live-in girlfriend." - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-shooting-stephen-paddock-20180120-story.html

His family was not a picture of sound mental health.... "Bruce Paddock knowingly possessed more than 600 images of child or youth pornography involving use of a person under age 18 engaging in or simulating sexual conduct."

"Bruce also was banned from a nursing home in California after he reportedly screamed at and threatened the staff there -- including at least one threat to kill."

"the father of the gunman behind the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history had a colorful history of his own. Benjamin Hoskins Paddock robbed a string of banks in Arizona, escaped prison in Texas and tried to start a new life as the manager of a bingo parlor in Oregon"
-http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-family-battled-mental-issues-legal-troubles.html

So TLDR: People close to him said he was bipolar, severely depressed as well, he had Valium in his system during the shooting. His father was a bank robber who escaped prison and his brother was a connoisseur of child pornography. So yeah. I would say the guy had issues not only personally but also genetically. So yeah I would say he had some issues. But please tell me what an irresponsible gun owner I am.

 

[TrainedRage]

Did you read that article?

"One must also prove a specific and approved need for the weapon, which is mainly limited to use by hunters, competitive marksmen, collectors and security workers - not for self-defence."

That's a quintessential difference to the USA. Most guns in Germany belong to hunters or professional Schützenverein members. Regular citizens hardly own a gun. The opposite is true for the USA: Anyone can own a gun - and unfortunately does.

Uhhhh. No?

 

[Durask]

Did you read that article?

"One must also prove a specific and approved need for the weapon, which is mainly limited to use by hunters, competitive marksmen, collectors and security workers - not for self-defence."

That's a quintessential difference to the USA. Most guns in Germany belong to hunters or professional Schützenverein members. Regular citizens hardly own a gun. The opposite is true for the USA: Anyone can own a gun - and unfortunately does.

Anyone can become a collector given some money. Bottom line is, there are two million gun owners in Germany and guns are certainly not banned and if you really want one and you are not mentally ill or a criminal or destitute, you will get it.

 

[KevinKeene]

Anyone can become a collector given some money. Bottom line is, there are two million gun owners in Germany and guns are certainly not banned and if you really want one and you are not mentally ill or a criminal or destitute, you will get it.

https://jungefreiheit.de/politik/deutschland/2018/zahl-der-waffenbesitzer-in-deutschland-steigt/

Of 5,3 mio weapons in Germany, 3,6 mio are hunting rifles (not fancy military rifes. Old-fashioned, slow-shooting hunter rifles). So less than 2 mio are guns. Since apparently alarm pistols and signal pistols are included in that number (and make a big part), then also taking into account owners with more than one gun, the number of actual individual gun owners in Germany is miniscule.

Just anecdotally speaking, I've never in my life met someone who owns a gun. If I found out about someone,I'd probably question his motives and wonder if he's member of some rightwing group.

That's what it's like with guns in Germany: They're not part of our countries dna. The vast majority of people don't want guns - because we know they're made for killing. And we don't like killing (in before some inappropriate joke about nazi germany. Ha ha :/)

 

[Durask]

Did you read that article?

"One must also prove a specific and approved need for the weapon, which is mainly limited to use by hunters, competitive marksmen, collectors and security workers - not for self-defence."

That's a quintessential difference to the USA. Most guns in Germany belong to hunters or professional Schützenverein members. Regular citizens hardly own a gun. The opposite is true for the USA: Anyone can own a gun - and unfortunately does.

Uhhhh. No?

https://jungefreiheit.de/politik/deutschland/2018/zahl-der-waffenbesitzer-in-deutschland-steigt/

Of 5,3 mio weapons in Germany, 3,6 mio are hunting rifles (not fancy military rifes. Old-fashioned, slow-shooting hunter rifles). So less than 2 mio are guns. Since apparently alarm pistols and signal pistols are included in that number (and make a big part), then also taking into account owners with more than one gun, the number of actual individual gun owners in Germany is miniscule.

Just anecdotally speaking, I've never in my life met someone who owns a gun. If I found out about someone,I'd probably question his motives and wonder if he's member of some rightwing group.

That's what it's like with guns in Germany: They're not part of our countries dna. The vast majority of people don't want guns - because we know they're made for killing. And we don't like killing (in before some inappropriate joke about nazi germany. Ha ha :/)

That's not what it says, it seems it says 3.6 mil are long guns - meaning any kind of rifle or shotgun which includes semi autos. Also I do not understand what you are calling a "gun". Any firearm is a gun.

Also, right next to you is Austria with much more relaxed firearm ownership rules (but very similar culture IMHO).

 

[KevinKeene]

That's not what it says, it seems it says 3.6 mil are long guns - meaning any kind of rifle or shotgun which includes semi autos. Also I do not understand what you are calling a "gun". Any firearm is a gun.

Also, right next to you is Austria with much more relaxed firearm ownership rules (but very similar culture IMHO).

And just like in Germany, you'll have a hard time finding a regular person with a gun. Most gun owners here are members of gun shooting clubs (Schützenverein) that's mostly about culture and tradition,not about 'safety' and self-defense.

Btw I'm too to look it up now (it's past 1 am ...), but I doubt that German civilians can obtain semi-autos at all.

 

[Durask]

By the way, here in Massachusetts to own a firearm you have to have a license.
There are two kinds of licenses - FID (Firearms ID) which allows you to possess non large capacity rifle or shotgun and LTC - License to Carry which allows you to own any kind of firearm that is allowed in MA and also allows you to carry a concealed handgun.

In order to get a license, you have to pass a state approved safety course (usually takes 1 day) and then you have to apply at your city/town's police station where you get fingerprinted. Then the police chief of your town/city decides if you are a "suitable person" to own firearms which is very arbitrary and essentially is whatever he/she feels like. Some towns have gun-friendly chiefs, some do not. Some chiefs first give out FID and then after a few years they allow you to apply for a LTC. They can also sit on your application close to a year if they feel like it. Your license has to be renewed every 5 years and most people submit their repeat application a year in advance just in case.

So no, not "anyone can just buy a gun".

 

[Durask]

And just like in Germany, you'll have a hard time finding a regular person with a gun. Most gun owners here are members of gun shooting clubs (Schützenverein) that's mostly about culture and tradition,not about 'safety' and self-defense.

Btw I'm too to look it up now (it's past 1 am ...), but I doubt that German civilians can obtain semi-autos at all.

If you are a sport shooter you can own 2 handguns and 3 semi auto rifles like AR15

 

[pramod]

Obama didn't do anything about guns.
Democrats with full control of Congress didn't do anything about guns.
Now Trump is trying to do something and everyone accuses him of "not doing anything".

 

[family_guy]

"Investigators also revealed that Mr Paddock may have been treated for “unidentified medical conditions.” In October, Ms. Danley told investigators that Mr Paddock’s physical and mental health seemed to have deteriorated in recent months." - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-las-vegas-gunmans-preparations-a8157336.html

"An autopsy report on Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock said he had anti-anxiety medication in his system at the time of death, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal." - https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/us/stephen-paddock-autopsy-las-vegas/index.html

"Stephen Paddock: He was a high-stakes gambler on a losing streak, obsessed with cleanliness, possibly bipolar and was having difficulties with his live-in girlfriend." - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-shooting-stephen-paddock-20180120-story.html

His family was not a picture of sound mental health.... "Bruce Paddock knowingly possessed more than 600 images of child or youth pornography involving use of a person under age 18 engaging in or simulating sexual conduct."

"Bruce also was banned from a nursing home in California after he reportedly screamed at and threatened the staff there -- including at least one threat to kill."

"the father of the gunman behind the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history had a colorful history of his own. Benjamin Hoskins Paddock robbed a string of banks in Arizona, escaped prison in Texas and tried to start a new life as the manager of a bingo parlor in Oregon"
-http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-family-battled-mental-issues-legal-troubles.html

So TLDR: People close to him said he was bipolar, severely depressed as well, he had Valium in his system during the shooting. His father was a bank robber who escaped prison and his brother was a connoisseur of child pornography. So yeah. I would say the guy had issues not only personally but also genetically. So yeah I would say he had some issues. But please tell me what an irresponsible gun owner I am.

His relationship with his girlfriend deteriorated within the past year, and it says he was stockpiling weapons 12 months in advance. There's an article that says he was prescribed the anti-anxiety medicine in June of the year he killed those people. His doctor thought he could possibly be bipolar, but there were no tests done. I'm not arguing that the guy didn't have issues. However any red flags, outside of his family history which you probably can't deny someone a gun on those terms only, were discovered only after he had already obtained those weapons. I didn't say you're an irresponsible gun owner, but you could be. I'm not saying you'll one day flip, but something could happen. Yeah these are "What if scenarios", but I rather have proactive laws to mitigate these things from happening rather than reactive laws. It's not like there aren't true stories such as an employee that was fired that ends up coming back to the office to kill his coworkers with the gun he bought for protection years ago, or the father that loses his job and gets so depressed that he kills his family and them himself, again with a gun he acquired long before he ever got depressed.

 

[rokkerkory]

Damn Rubio getting plastered in the town hall.

 

[TrainedRage]

His relationship with his girlfriend deteriorated within the past year, and it says he was stockpiling weapons 12 months in advance. There's an article that says he was prescribed the anti-anxiety medicine in June of the year he killed those people. His doctor thought he could possibly be bipolar, but there were no tests done. I'm not arguing that the guy didn't have issues. However any red flags, outside of his family history which you probably can't deny someone a gun on those terms only, were discovered only after he had already obtained those weapons. I didn't say you're an irresponsible gun owner, but you could be. I'm not saying you'll one day flip, but something could happen. Yeah these are "What if scenarios", but I rather have proactive laws to mitigate these things from happening rather than reactive laws. It's not like there aren't true stories such as an employee that was fired that ends up coming back to the office to kill his coworkers with the gun he bought for protection years ago, or the father that loses his job and gets so depressed that he kills his family and them himself, again with a gun he acquired long before he ever got depressed.

Yeah and if those gun owners use those guns to murder people after they get fired or are so depressed they kill themselves then they have serious mental health issues. Normal people go there entire lives without doing that and only using rare outliers to take away constitutional rights of others is asinine.

 

[LordPezix]

I feel sympathy for these people but it will never be changed, if they really want to ban guns then I hope they are ready for a civil war because it will come to that if it is ever changed.

Hold the phone, you're telling me that you would go to war and possibly die over a possession? Man listen, guns are cool but I ain't going toe to toe with the American Military. Lot's of people get by with their daily lives just fine without the ownership of a gun.

If you and the 1-3% of gun owners wanna raise up against a ban, fine. It just seems such a waste when there is so much about life to enjoy then to get riled up over a thing.


Now I am down with the idea of a constitution, but maybe, just maybe,... we want to take a modern look at rights that were made in a world almost 300 years ago. I mean fuck, Slaves were a thing that long ago, they went away, people started a war over it, and now the world carries on just fine.

 

[Durask]

Now I am down with the idea of a constitution, but maybe, just maybe,... we want to take a modern look at rights that were made in a world almost 300 years ago. I mean fuck, Slaves were a thing that long ago, they went away, people started a war over it, and now the world carries on just fine.

Well, those of us who think that weapon ownership is a right do not think it a right because some guys wrote it on a piece of paper 300 years ago but because we think that it SHOULD be a right. I do not view it as some kind of holy scripture that I have to obey and worhip just because, I just happen to agree what's written there (or how it is interpreted).

 

[LordPezix]

Well, those of us who think that weapon ownership is a right do not think it a right because some guys wrote it on a piece of paper 300 years ago but because we think that it SHOULD be a right. I do not view it as some kind of holy scripture that I have to obey and worship just because, I just happen to agree what's written there (or how it is interpreted).

I get you and all, but why just guns? I mean it's strange that, correct me if I am wrong, that a gun is the only materialistic item we have a right of? Where the hell is my right to food, water, a cellphone?

You know I get the whole, to stand against a tyrannical government, but lets step into reality. If we ever did have a tyrannical government that "rolled out on us", no civilian weapon is gonna do shit against an F-20 raptor, or an M1A1 abrams.

I mean shouldn't we move the deterrent for tyrannical government overthrow to say that civilians have rights to a tank or something? Does right to bear arms include things like those?

I hope I am making sense, like why does there even need to be something that says you have a right to that particular thing?


Holy shit I found it. We don't even have a right to food!

I like guns as much as the next guy, I just don't see my life falling apart because I can't have one is all. But I am with the group that doesn't think guns are the primary issue, in all honesty it has to be a cultural thing, but I'm not gonna get my feathers ruffled over it ya know.

 

[Durask]

I get you and all, but why just guns? I mean it's strange that, correct me if I am wrong, that a gun is the only materialistic item we have a right of? Where the hell is my right to food, water, a cellphone?

You know I get the whole, to stand against a tyrannical government, but lets step into reality. If we ever did have a tyrannical government that "rolled out on us", no civilian weapon is gonna do shit against an F-20 raptor, or an M1A1 abrams.

Any kind of resistance against tyrannical government is essentialy guerilla warfare where F20 or Abrams are not very useful. But aside from that.

To me what is paramount and what I consider a right is the right to self defense. Guns are simply useful tools for self defense, however, to use a somewhat absurd hyperbole, I'd prefer a place with liberal self defense laws that banned guns to a place that had guns but placed severe restrictions on what is defined as lawful self defense.

 

[gohepcat]

By the way, here in Massachusetts to own a firearm you have to have a license.
There are two kinds of licenses - FID (Firearms ID) which allows you to possess non large capacity rifle or shotgun and LTC - License to Carry which allows you to own any kind of firearm that is allowed in MA and also allows you to carry a concealed handgun.

In order to get a license, you have to pass a state approved safety course (usually takes 1 day) and then you have to apply at your city/town's police station where you get fingerprinted. Then the police chief of your town/city decides if you are a "suitable person" to own firearms which is very arbitrary and essentially is whatever he/she feels like. Some towns have gun-friendly chiefs, some do not. Some chiefs first give out FID and then after a few years they allow you to apply for a LTC. They can also sit on your application close to a year if they feel like it. Your license has to be renewed every 5 years and most people submit their repeat application a year in advance just in case.

So no, not "anyone can just buy a gun".

Yup, and we have some of the lowest crime in the US. The slight inconveniences you describe would be considered a dystopian hell-scape for like 80% of the country.

I'm sick of people defending this. I'm sick of people wallowing around in shit like fucking animals and telling me I'm wrong because I want fewer guns in the world. My dad fought in WW2 and in the boat ride back vowed to never shoot a gun again in his life. They are a symbol of the absolute failure of civilized society.

 

[Durask]

Yup, and we have some of the lowest crime in the US. The slight inconveniences you describe would be considered a dystopian hell-scape for like 80% of the country.

I'm sick of people defending this. I'm sick of people wallowing around in shit like fucking animals and telling me I'm wrong because I want fewer guns in the world. My dad fought in WW2 and in the boat ride back vowed to never shoot a gun again in his life. They are a symbol of the absolute failure of civilized society.

NH, Maine and VT have much more relaxed gun laws and have lower crime rates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state

 

[pramod]

What if Trump decided to become a dictator and impose martial law, I'm sure you guys would wish you had guns then.

 

[Moneal]

What if Trump decided to become a dictator and impose martial law, I'm sure you guys would wish you had guns then.

He is already working on it from what I've read.

 

[xStoyax]

You would think that if there was a real movement & organic outrage, then CNN wouldn't have to resort to scripting debates https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...fter_denying_question_about_armed_guards.html

 

[dlauv]

A ban sounds like such an extreme shift. Why can't we just have stricter laws and more regulations?

There seem to be more hoops to go through just to drive a car.

 

[gohepcat]

The rate of gun ownership does not equal gun deaths. It is more than just guns that's the problem. The universal background check to me is a start. We really need to figure out the lives of these shooters and see if they have anything in common. (badly raised, mental illness, abusive relationships etc).

You gonna supply a source for this propaganda, or can I just reverse image search it back To Infowars, or britebart?

 

[gohepcat]

 

[MilkyJoe]

Do you want a civil war? Cause that is how you get a civil war.

You guys make out the government would be taking away your cars, or your central heating, or running water. They would just be taking away your tools to stop you easily killing each other.


The mind boggles at the mentality.

 

[appaws]

Do you want a civil war? Cause that is how you get a civil war.

Please explain what you mean by "rightly so"

If it gets to the point that the state is taking away our human rights, it is better for that state to be overthrown, or more likely just broken up.

Hold the phone, you're telling me that you would go to war and possibly die over a possession? Man listen, guns are cool but I ain't going toe to toe with the American Military. Lot's of people get by with their daily lives just fine without the ownership of a gun.

If you and the 1-3% of gun owners wanna raise up against a ban, fine. It just seems such a waste when there is so much about life to enjoy then to get riled up over a thing.

It is not just a "thing." It is liberty. It is being an autonomous citizen with inviolable rights instead of a collectivized subject with "rights" when the government feels like it. Germany puts people in prison for having opinions, why are we holding them up as a paragon? We are the freest country on earth because we understand that our rights come from God and can't be taken away. I love the constitution, but it only enshrines rights that were already there and widely understood to be beyond state revocation.

 

[family_guy]

Yeah and if those gun owners use those guns to murder people after they get fired or are so depressed they kill themselves then they have serious mental health issues. Normal people go there entire lives without doing that and only using rare outliers to take away constitutional rights of others is asinine.

Normal people go their entire lives without harming people, yet many U.S. gun owners use rare outliers to justify having guns because "its for their protection" as if they live in a war zone.

 

[TheShadowLord]

Obama didn't do anything about guns.
Democrats with full control of Congress didn't do anything about guns.
Now Trump is trying to do something and everyone accuses him of "not doing anything".

Obama at least done something about guns:Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses