Former Square CEO on Twitter "Merger with Enix a failure"

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kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Fuck you. Nomura is one of the best things at Square Enix & in JRPG gaming altogether. He's the one who pushes for projects like The World Ends With You and gave Osaka Team a chance with Kingdom Hearts ReCoM & BBS, turning them from a team that was probably going to be shut down into one of the best things they've got going on, atm.
That's not saying much.
 
Not sure what the heck people are talking about saying the merger was a no-choice situation for Square, or that Suzuki ran the company into the ground. Neither are remotely true. In fact, the merger was supposed to happen even earlier than it did, but it was the fiscal impact of the Final Fantasy film that made Enix hold off til 2003.

The continued success of the EA and Square ventures in the US and Japan (I'm going back to the PSone here) and the capital infusion from Sony was more than enough to get Square back on track after the film (look it up if you don't believe me, they were back in the black by FY2002).

Suzuki is completely right, the merger was an asinine idea headed up and orchestrated by completely incompetent idiots, notably Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum at Enix, Fukushima and Honda, and of course, Wada.

Enix desperately wanted to piggy back Square for US penetration, Wada was an absolute idiot who despised Sakaguchi and was terrified of the backlash from the film, and together they instituted horrendous development reforms and linear focused brand reliances that were so laughably short sighted it amazes me these men have jobs.

Nothing else is more responsible for the state of this company than that damn merger.
I'd like to hear more about this.
 
Squaresoft would be dead by now if it wasn't for Enix, imo. Not to mention Eidos.
They really need to figure themselves out with their Final Fantasy brand, before they lose that.
 
I think after the election everyone's got political allegories on their mind.
It kind of threw me off for a bit. Especially since he skipped another President that could've fit that SE spot...like Bush. Although I personally disagree with the intention of that comparison in its entirety though.

Squaresoft understood the people who supported their products, was well aware of what kept everyone coming back, etc. People were loyal or at the very least respected them as a gaming juggarnaut.

Square-Enix tried really hard for many years to continue to meet those needs but have consistently failed to deliver and often leave the fanbase feeling split when it comes to what they like/don't like and want/don't want. They do not know how to react to changing trends in the industry without completely missing the plot.
The fanbase leaves themselves split on what they like or don't like. Fanbase were split during the Squaresoft era too.

That's not saying much.
Saying a lot actually. Nomura is like the Michael Jackson of RPGs. A true pioneer.
 
How prophetic:


Square just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFXIII for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square, publicly apologize and cancel FFXIII Versus for 360 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
This is a "subtle" joke that I'm not getting, right?
 
The fanbase leaves themselves split on what they like or don't like. Fanbase were split during the Squaresoft era too.
Yes, I remember those days. The fanbase was also a lot more passionate. And people are growing indifferent to S-E as a whole no matter what their preferences are.

Saying a lot actually. Nomura is like the Michael Jackson of RPGs. A true pioneer.
Time to stop taking you seriously.
 
This is a "subtle" joke that I'm not getting, right?
Some old meme that started when FFXIII was announced for 360 I believe. Some dude said he was an expert on Japanese culture and it kind of took a life on it's own.

Yes but the fanbase was also a lot more passionate. And people are growing indifferent to S-E as a whole no matter what their preferences are.
I'd wager people would've grown indifferent to S-E as time went on no matter what they did because of the change in the gaming landscape.


Time to stop taking you seriously.
That...hurts.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
I was at Distant Worlds at the weekend there. When Arnie Roth announced they were going to do some tracks from XIII I could literally hear the groans from a crowd that would have cheered if he cleared his throat before.

What a strange situation SE are in at present. Perennially existing on the crest of a nostalgia wave ridden by the nucleus of die-hard fans that remember the glory days, completely unable or unwilling to move beyond their recent failures or even admit they made them.

The Final Fantasy brand is stagnant and increasingly irrelevant to the mainstream masses. Excellent IPs like Valkyrie Profile and Radiata Stories are neglected in favor of DQ Online and quick-buck mobile games. Versus and all the talent involved with it are shoehorned in favor of stemming the hemorrhaging money from XIV or ensuring we all like Lightning, whether we want to or not.

This is a company that, worse than running out of money, is fast running out of good ideas.
I'm not really shocked. XIII was disappointing to a lot of people - namely the casual fanbase. Add to that the continued presence of those characters and world... even some who liked XIII are starting to grow tired of it all. Square Enix's continued foray into those games really drives home their lack of vision, imo.
 
I'm not really shocked. XIII was disappointing to a lot of people - namely the casual fanbase. Add to that the continued presence of those characters and world... even some who liked XIII are starting to grow tired of it all. Square Enix's continued foray into those games really drives home their lack of vision, imo.
Not a good enough excuse to complain about its good music.
 
Not a good enough excuse to complain about its good music.
Yeah, XIII has an amazing OST if nothing else. It's easily top 5. I wouldn't complain.

I liked the battle system a lot, but it was utilized poorly in XIII due to its progression. XIII-2, while it had welcome changes that made the battle system even more enjoyable, were nothing groundbreaking and there was no reason whatsoever why the first game couldn't have been that way. In retrospect, their inability to recognize this until crapping out a sequel really turns me off to the point where I wish they'd have just focused more on Versus and let XIII stand on its own as a game that ultimately fell short, so short that it hindered its best qualities. But that's exactly what it deserves to be remembered as, and since XIII-2 sold so poorly I can't see it doing much to redeem it in the years to come. Not to mention, the plot and chars in XIII-2 are even worse than the first, so bad that it interferes with overall enjoyment (at least for me).
 
That's not saying much.
The World Ends With You, Dissidia, Theatrhythm, KH BBS and some others speak for themselves. TWEWY & KH BBS are some of the best action RPGs of all time. They shit on Vagrant Story, Secret of Mana and any other Squaresoft action RPGs of olde, as far as gameplay goes (and, imho, TWEWY is one of the better JRPGs story-wise as well).

Nomura is a really nice & humble guy, so he doesn't make much noise about himself. He's not that good of a writer (he has some decent ideas/story concepts but someone else needs to be there to turn those into actually decent end results), as evident by Kingdom Hearts, but he is a great director/producer/general advice guy/creative dude. He's somehow behind many of the best recent Square Enix games (he pushed a lot for TWEWY, gives members of his development teams room for creativity and is just generally involved in a lot of things behind the scenes, even if he's not the director of the games). I've said this before, but he's currently basically Square Enix's Miyamoto (not that I put Nomura on the same line as Miyamoto, at least not yet, he's still got ways to get there). Miyamoto doesn't direct that many games himself, but he has influence on game development and many projects inside Nintendo.

I do find it ridiculous some shithead blames him from stuff that isn't his fault. Stupid people basically blame him for stuff like FFXIII even though his role was mostly just drawing a few characters.


It's really not. After Versus, what does he have left to offer? Not much.
Uhh... a lot? There's Kingdom Hearts III as his next massive project and he's involved in a lot of projects all the time. You obviously don't know shit about Nomura's role inside Square Enix, so how about you not comment on it, hmmm? You obviously think he's just directing Versus XIII and doing nothing else, so time to stop taking you seriously.
 
Enix outsourced pretty much EVERYTHING, except maybe some creative involvement (i.e. Horii's involvement on the Dragon Quest series). They were never a company with any meaningful in-house development, but mostly a publisher, even Dragon Quest's development has been outsourced from the start, AFAIK.
True. They are still doing it now, especially now that Horii doesn't work for SE anymore.


It's clear that it fucked up their corporate culture somehow .... You can pretty much draw a line at the merger... Bad games were an anomaly before it, good games are an anomaly after it.
It is still the same. 2012 is Hitman, Sleeping Dogs, Bravely Default, Final Fantasy III PSP, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Wakfu, Chaos Rings II, Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions for iPad and Lord of Apocalypse compared to Final Fantasy XIII-2 and Army Corpse of Hell.
 
In Japan, as it has always done. And you mean Enix IP, not IPs. Star Ocean 4 was probably the worst SO of all time, and, honestly, besides DQ, Enix doesn't really have any of their old IPs doing too well. Enix doesn't really have a richness of IPs like Square does.
Meanwhile we are drowing in (real) front mission, final fantasy tactics, seiken densetsu, chrono, SaGa and console kingdom heart games.
 
Uhh... a lot? There's Kingdom Hearts III as his next massive project and he's involved in a lot of projects all the time. You obviously don't know shit about Nomura's role inside Square Enix, so how about you not comment on it, hmmm? You obviously think he's just directing Versus XIII and doing nothing else, so time to stop taking you seriously.
No, I'm well aware that he has other projects under his belt. But Versus should be his top priority. It was announced in 2006. Time to get it done.

If, after that, KH is the only big S-E title outside of lackluster FF's (I've gone from hyped from cautiously optimistic about Versus), they won't survive through the next generation. Then again, the whole industry will probably implode in the next few years anyway.

My life doesn't depend on if you want to take me seriously or not; feel free to keep wasting your money on Nomura's polished turds. He doesn't give a shit about you anyway. He can't even sit down like a human being and talk to journalists without acting like a passive jerk.
 
I'm not really shocked. XIII was disappointing to a lot of people - namely the casual fanbase. Add to that the continued presence of those characters and world... even some who liked XIII are starting to grow tired of it all. Square Enix's continued foray into those games really drives home their lack of vision, imo.
I'm one of the latter, enjoyed XIII quite a bit but am now thoroughly sick of it and especially Lightning. Throwing XIII sequels against the wall in the hope (pardon the pun) one sticks is doing nothing to bolster support with those who did not enjoy XIII and everything to ensure it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of those who did.

The brand is in complete stagnation and the bumbling morons at the top of SE literally don't know what to do about it.
 
The World Ends With You, Dissidia, Theatrhythm, KH BBS and some others speak for themselves. TWEWY & KH BBS are some of the best action RPGs of all time. They shit on Vagrant Story, Secret of Mana and any other Squaresoft action RPGs of olde, as far as gameplay goes (and, imho, TWEWY is one of the better JRPGs story-wise as well).

Nomura is a really nice & humble guy, so he doesn't make much noise about himself. He's not that good of a writer (he has some decent ideas/story concepts but someone else needs to be there to turn those into actually decent end results), as evident by Kingdom Hearts, but he is a great director/producer/general advice guy/creative dude. He's somehow behind many of the best recent Square Enix games (he pushed a lot for TWEWY, gives members of his development teams room for creativity and is just generally involved in a lot of things behind the scenes, even if he's not the director of the games). I've said this before, but he's currently basically Square Enix's Miyamoto (not that I put Nomura on the same line as Miyamoto, at least not yet, he's still got ways to get there). Miyamoto doesn't direct that many games himself, but he has influence on game development and many projects inside Nintendo.

I do find it ridiculous some shithead blames him from stuff that isn't his fault. Stupid people basically blame him for stuff like FFXIII even though his role was mostly just drawing a few characters.


Uhh... a lot? There's Kingdom Hearts III as his next massive project and he's involved in a lot of projects all the time. You obviously don't know shit about Nomura's role inside Square Enix, so how about you not comment on it, hmmm? You obviously think he's just directing Versus XIII and doing nothing else, so time to stop taking you seriously.
People blaming him for things he didn't do isn't that much different from people praising him for things he didn't do.
 
If, after that, KH is the only big S-E title outside of lackluster FF's (I've gone from hyped from cautiously optimistic about Versus), they won't survive through the next generation.
It is not like they just transformed a company with really bad performing brands into a powerhouse again. No matter the quality, RPGs wouldn't have been enough to survive the next generation.
 
It is not like they just transformed a company with really bad performing brands into a powerhouse again. No matter the quality, RPGs wouldn't have been enough to survive the next generation.
True, but they really haven't done themselves any favors, either. They tried too hard in all the wrong places.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
If we want to criticize the creative side of SE, Toriyama's the one to blame. I mean, look at his track record.
You asked for it.

Okay people. Let's go through Toriyama's work history together. This ain't about your "XIII" it's about his work history. HA HA!

Bahamut Lagoon- Great Game. Garbage Story.

FFVII-Great Game(one of the big ones too), was a event planner and Submarine Chase Section Planner. (Very minor role, didn't screw stuff up) Killed Aeris/Aerith.

Racing Lagoon- Not well received, negative reception with a 21 out of 40 from Famitsu back in the day, One of two Designers was Toriyama.

FFX-Great game. Little faults. Certain scenes poorly done. One in particular

FFX-2- Great Gameplay, perhaps the best. Story not so much, nebulous and disjointed at that. Music is mixed. Good and Bad.

FFVII Tech Demo- No issues.

FFXIIRW- Decent. Not bad. Mainly positive.

The World Ends With You - Special Thanks. Decent title.

FFCC: Life as a King/Dark Lord- Mixed reaction.

Dissidia/Duodecim - Some characters were bastardized, and some of the story was ugh. Toriyama. Still a great game.

Blood of Bahamut- Sold poorly. Story was poor. You get the picture.

FFXIII- Linear to the extreme. Toriyama blamed it on Western thinking. Story was kinda ugh. Great Game. Execution was blah. Generally a straight line, big blob, then back to the line. Level restrictions, Gameplay was good but had limitations and would ultimately play itself, being less of a actual game.

Front Mission Evolved- Crap Story, Generally tanked. Poor Reviews. Frowns all around.

3rd Birthday - Terrible and confusing story. You only barely get it after playing through it multiple times. Toriyama's craptastic story combined with Tabata's great cutscene direction and gameplay don't mix. Fans were pissed and shun it.

XIII-2 - Story is all over the place. Main characters reduced to cameos, one time guests, one was a marketing tool and plot device, 10-20 hours of story, the rest is simply filler, breaks its own rules and justifies them with vague explanations, paradox and time travel excuses and constant referral to the datalog. Along with asspulls to explain game mechanics characters implement. Game is a huge DLC experiment. $60 for the game itself, and now with a combination of DLC up to $30+ and more coming, things that feel like they should have been there from the first place. Gameplay is great and some music is good. Then again this is Toriyama.

It seems to me that unless Toriyama is on a team to apply checks and balances, he shouldn't lead ANY big SE Projects, and the guy doesn't comb his hair, bedhead.

Disagree if you want, this is my opinion.

Discuss.
 
If we want to criticize the creative side of SE, Toriyama's the one to blame. I mean, look at his track record.
They are all incredibly lazy and completely lack real creative vision, to simplify. To be fair, XIV's team has done a lot to improve their game, but sadly the age of rampant MMO playing is over outside of loyal WoW fans.

Nomura might be a little better than the rest, but not to the point where he's the lord and savior of the Japanese RPG. Frankly, he's such a passive jerk and unwilling to follow through on his biggest commitment to date (Versus) that it kind of doesn't matter if he has an edge or not, imo. And really, again, the best I've seen out of the company lately is their XIV team. It's just unfortunate that the rest of the company isn't thinking this way because it needs to extend to all of their products, not just an MMO which is a dying breed.

I remember hearing on a 1up Podcast that some S-E texture designer on the XIII team was assigned the task of working on a rock (yes, a rock) for like a month or something. That's it. They had no idea what else to tell this person to do.
 
People blaming him for things he didn't do isn't that much different from people praising him for things he didn't do.
Of course games like TWEWY & Dissidia had their own directors & development teams, but Nomura was very much involved. In comparison, games like Bravely Default, FFXIV & such have no such input from Nomura.
 
LevelNth dropping truth bombs up in here but still going mostly ignored.

I'd like to hear more about this.
What more is there to know?

Sony put a lot of coin behind The Spirits Within and further subsidized it's losses by buying a small non-voting stake in Square following it's failures to steady them financially.

Before then and beyond Square and EA had a strong cross-publishing partnership where Square made VERY nice profit margins on EA published games in the west while also seeing healthy growth in the sales rates of EA's titles they distributed in Japan. It was a very lucrative deal for both sides.

The deal with EA was dropped because Wada wanted to turn Square into a EA/Activision sized international publishing powerhouse. That is why he began making moves to join with Enix, who was at the time a less productive version of what Atlus is today. Instead of having a healthy stable of in-house teams along with some smartly chosen subs like Atlus they had almost no in house development staff and relied entirely on subs. Both are heavily tied to the success of their cornerstone JRPG franchise, Dragon Quest and MegaTen/Persona respectively. Atlus has done what Enix has failed at for decades on two counts by making MegaTen/Persona a successful brand globally and by splitting MegaTen into a multi-pronged IP with titles like Nocturne under the MegaTen name directly, the Persona franchise, and other spin offs that have had solid market success (Digital Devil Saga) and strong legs on re-releases (Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor). The notion behind this being that by consolidating the two major players in the then very popular JRPG genre they would have all the muscle needed to gobble up market share and other smaller publishers.

This is also why they have picked up Quest, Taito, and now Eidos. It is all part of Wada's plan to make Square into a dominant 3rd party.

Eidos to date has paid off for them pretty well, but the production of Square's internal studios has been bad by the already low standards of Japanese 3rd parties this generation,. The benefits of merging with Enix have never arrived as they were unable to leverage the Square name or FF brand to build the Dragon Quest brand in the U.S., the only successful spinoff (Dragon Quest Monsters) has also failed to make any real headway outside Japan.

The only substantial gains shown by their purchase of Quest was the release of Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together on the PSP.

Their purchase of Taito basically amounts to a half billion dollar investment that has done nothing to strengthen the company.

As a result of all this the Final Fantasy brand has suffered irreparable damage due to poor quality, inconsistent release dates, and in general blatant milking of the IP. Kingdom Hearts, which not long ago was poised to become a major IP, has failed to fully develop due to muddled direction and platform ambiguity. Dragon Quest is still a Japan-centric IP that is profitable but capped out as a single player IP. Both major franchises (FF and DQ) are now being leveraged in the MMO market, which is an expensive and very fickle mistress. Well known Square IPs (namely Chrono and Mana) have languished and lost a ton of marketing clout.

In short other than Eidos they're entirely reliant on two IPs, one of which is in full on decline and the other beginning to stagnate due to an inability to cross markets. The only time they break outside this box is within the relatively low risk handheld segment that also happens to be shrinking at an alarming rate globally. Their clout with Sony has all but evaporated and are now more or less doggedly dependent on Nintendo's handheld consumers for any legitimate brand recognition, when not so long ago the Squaresoft logo alone could move significant units.

Wada aimed for global domination without knowing how to get there and has ran headlong into every "growth" opportunity he's had available to him. They got DAMN lucky the Eidos buyout happened when it did, as if Eidos had held on just a few more months their releases (most notably Batman: Arkham Asylum) would have given them renewed life.

There is no reason to assume that the company will change direction any time soon. They have lost the pulse of consumers and rely on the smattering of talent still in house to carry them to any kind of success, which is inconsistent and unreliable. The golden age that Sakaguchi presided over came to an end when the failure of Spirits Within allowed Wada to seize power.

I expect that much like Sony it won't be too long before Square Enix is back in real financial trouble. All it will take is a drop in production by Eidos, who has never been able to maintain success and has already been cut out of their most successful recent title, since Batman: Arkham City was a Warner Bros/Rocksteady deal sans-Eidos. All it will take is Wada pushing a $50M budget Call of Duty rival onto their books in his pursuit of global appeal to start sending them down the same failed path as the parent company Square Enix.
 
The World Ends With You, Dissidia, Theatrhythm, KH BBS and some others speak for themselves. TWEWY & KH BBS are some of the best action RPGs of all time. They shit on Vagrant Story, Secret of Mana and any other Squaresoft action RPGs of olde, as far as gameplay goes (and, imho, TWEWY is one of the better JRPGs story-wise as well).

Nomura is a really nice & humble guy, so he doesn't make much noise about himself. He's not that good of a writer (he has some decent ideas/story concepts but someone else needs to be there to turn those into actually decent end results), as evident by Kingdom Hearts, but he is a great director/producer/general advice guy/creative dude. He's somehow behind many of the best recent Square Enix games (he pushed a lot for TWEWY, gives members of his development teams room for creativity and is just generally involved in a lot of things behind the scenes, even if he's not the director of the games). I've said this before, but he's currently basically Square Enix's Miyamoto (not that I put Nomura on the same line as Miyamoto, at least not yet, he's still got ways to get there). Miyamoto doesn't direct that many games himself, but he has influence on game development and many projects inside Nintendo.

I do find it ridiculous some shithead blames him from stuff that isn't his fault. Stupid people basically blame him for stuff like FFXIII even though his role was mostly just drawing a few characters.


Uhh... a lot? There's Kingdom Hearts III as his next massive project and he's involved in a lot of projects all the time. You obviously don't know shit about Nomura's role inside Square Enix, so how about you not comment on it, hmmm? You obviously think he's just directing Versus XIII and doing nothing else, so time to stop taking you seriously.


 
How prophetic:


Square just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFXIII for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square, publicly apologize and cancel FFXIII Versus for 360 or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Eye for an eye... I support Hisashi Suzuki.

 
LevelNth dropping truth bombs up in here but still going mostly ignored.
I noticed people were mostly ignoring his posts but was hoping they wouldn't so we could see if what he says is true.

My dear god, you people can't be so stupid that you think the game has been in development for 6 years.
I do find it ridiculous some shithead blames him from stuff that isn't his fault.
Nomura?

Nomura is a really nice & humble guy
Oh, nevermind.
 
They brought Eidos back so i can't see the merger as a failure ;)

That said, apart from the FF series i don't think SE's output was all that better/worse than in other generations.

The loss of revelance in the console space is mostly due to not being ready for large scale development rather than the merger. Then it snowballed from there.
 
They are all incredibly lazy and completely lack real creative vision, to simplify.
Yeah, Nomura & Co are so lazy that they sacrifice their time with their loved ones to work on the games they are developing.


Nomura might be a little better than the rest, but not to the point where he's the lord and savior of the Japanese RPG. Frankly, he's such a passive jerk and unwilling to follow through on his biggest commitment to date (Versus) that it kind of doesn't matter if he has an edge or not, imo.
Umm... where are you getting this "passive jerk" crap?

And is it really so incomprehensible to think that Square Enix is REALLY letting Nomura & his team put a lot of effort into Versus XIII's development, to make it everything it can be without (too many) compromises instead of Nomura & his team just not giving a shit? Again, all we know about, Versus has been in active development for maybe 3,5 years, which, granted, would be a lot, but the development team was relatively small for a big part of that time + the game itself is probably one of the most ambitious RPGs ever. That kind of game simply isn't made in a couple of years. It was simply announced too early, a mistake they've probably been cursing for most of that 6 years after the game's announcement.

And really, again, the best I've seen out of the company lately is their XIV team..
You mean the team that made such a big flop that, for the last year or so, Square Enix has probably halted/cancelled a multitude of other projects in favor of getting the non-shitty version of their game out ASAP?
 
Drek, don't forget the KH series, which was shaping up to be a major powerhouse with the first 3 games, but has been on a steady decline with spinoff after spinoff that jump from handheld to handheld and no third main installment in sight. Sales have seen a notable decline from 358 to BbS to 3D. The fact that none of these spinoffs were nearly as well received by critics as the main installments is also telling.

And lol at some of the Nomura wanking in this thread. I will say he's way better than Toriyama though. Toriyama absolutely must be either fired or be given nothing but small roles.
 
Yeah, Nomura & Co are so lazy that they sacrifice their time with their loved ones to work on the games they are developing.
Because he's the hero jrpg deserve, but not the one they needs right now...and so we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector...a dark knight.
 
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