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Forza horizon 6 : Another disaster for 8Gb GPUs

5060ti 8GB - monster GPU that beats PS5 Pro but you have to use PS4 textures and turn RT off
PS4 textures = High Settings
Turn RT Off when 1080p High RT runs over 100 fps 🤔

Please leave unintelligible propaganda to AMDUB. I am immune to your corrupting FUD.

PS5 is barely more than 8GB. And PS5 Pro is beneath 12GB. (Comparable to 10GB mostly)
 
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PS4 textures = High Settings
Turn RT Off when 1080p High RT runs over 100 fps 🤔

Please leave unintelligible propaganda to HUB. PS5 is barely more than 8GB. And PS5 Pro is beneath 12GB. (Comparable to 10GB mostly)

You are talking about FH6, I'm talking about many more games.

And it seems that Daniel Owen, Digital Foundry, Hardware Unboxed and others are all part of "anti nvidia" conspiracy. They fake their tests that show 8GB cards perform like garbage in modern games.

PS5 and Pro using 8-11GB for VRAM is still above 6.8GB available on 8GB cards (for games). Simple math.
 
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You are talking about FH6, I'm talking about many more games.
Most of the games that run badly on 8GB GPUs were patched to working ok. The infamous cases and all.

MHW, Fospoken, TLOU P1, etc.

Off course there is a benefit to more VRAM. Spiderman 2 is a very well made game that 8GB is limiting in. But that's more that they pushed PS5 streaming system to the edge in this game. So it makes exact PS5 parity almost unattainable below 10GB VRAM without having to compensate with higher performance.

But in 99% of games it's limited or marginal. Not worth paying 20$/GB in MSRP for it.

And it seems that Daniel Owen, Digital Foundry, Hardware Unboxed and others are all part of "anti nvidia" conspiracy.
They are not. I have listed who I consider AMD influencers. Don't put words in my mouth.

Unfortunately currently Youtube algorithm is all about drama. It's why Forza Horizon 6 video can't be about how it runs. It has to be about this rage bait. Because that generates clicks and everyone including DF is starting to play.

It's why DF has to wait to see how the internet reacts to DLSS5 before they can form their opinion.

That's why I am starting to quarantine from english tech reviewers and mostly listen to Chinese, Korean and Japanese ones. Even the Russians aren't bad.
 
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You can buy the high VRAM version or you can lower settings.

The 5060 Ti 8GB delivers a monstrous amount of performance at a relatively cheap price thanks to 8GB. Around 15-20% faster than the PS5 Pro, but with a PS6-level feature set. An absolute steal at $379.

If you must have 12GB, go buy the 12GB B580. But 95% of people don't want to do that. Do you want to know why? Because it's not Nvidia.

The major misunderstanding people have about PC is not understanding that consumers don't want high VRAM GPUs. They want high VRAM Nvidia GPUs.

AMD and their influencers (MLID, Kepler, AMDUB, etc.) have complained in the past about the phenomenon of buyers who view Radeon as a tool for getting cheaper Nvidia.


It's not a deflection. The major issues with 8GB games are concentrated in bad PS5 ports that eventually get patched. That doesn't mean that games can't take advantage of more than 8GB GPUs. But practically all games can be and are made to provide a great experience on 8GB GPUs.

Even this game runs absolutely great on 8GB. Having more than 8GB here costs you going from ultra to high on textures and geometry. Is that worth preferring a hypothetical 5050 12GB over the 5060 Ti 8GB? Absolutely not, in my opinion. 60% raster >> slightly higher texture quality.

The major contention here is that the PS5 has slightly more VRAM than 8GB in many titles. Thus, exact PS5 settings would push you over the VRAM buffer, which requires creating a system of memory management. If the system is implemented well, we can 8GB PC surpass PS5. But if not, it could create problems.

TLOU Part I had worse textures at launch on PC with 8GB than on the 256MB VRAM PS3. That's not an 8GB VRAM issue; it's an issue of a comically broken streaming system they tried to copy-paste from PS5 onto PC.

There is also the fact that Windows itself is terrible and uses hundreds of MBs of VRAM it doesn't need to use.

The actual solution here is 9GB 96-bit GPUs. Nvidia
wants to do this but knows they will get burned at the stake by AMDUB, GN, etc. So they can't do it.

Thus, the VRAM whining complex is just making things worse. Imagine someone who reviews every iPhone and whose entire argument is that the iPhone 18 Pro Max should be $499, citing some Chinese Pico phone as proof. Is that a serious reviewer?


VRAM now is $10/GB, and once you apply Nvidia's margin, that's $18/GB. Apply AIB/Distributor/Retailer margin, and we are at $20/GB on the MSRP.

5050 12GB? $289 + 4 * $20 = $369
5070 18GB? $629 + 6 * $20 = $749

Now would AMDUB sell a $369 RTX 5050 12GB? A $749 RTX 5070 18GB? Of course not. He'd burn it at the stake.

He complained the 4060 Ti 8GB should be $299. So Nvidia made the RTX 5060, which is exactly what he asked for at $299. Except now it needs to be $150 or less at 8GB, or have 12GB at $299. Does it matter that GDDR7 3GB was still sampling and not in mass production when the 5060 launched? Of course not.

All these takes are variations of either:
1. Nvidia has to have no margin. Why do they have margin?
2. Not understanding that memory's Moore's Law is facing similar challenges to the logic one.


AMD people always assume that the 93% of the market now buying Nvidia are behaving irrationally.

It can't possibly be because the RDNA2/3 Windows driver is 12% slower than the open-source Mesa Linux driver. It cannot possibly be because AMD has de facto put those cards in maintenance mode long ago. It cannot possibly be because Turing and Ampere buyers loved having the lifetime of their GPU extended by getting DLSS SR and multiple software updates that retroactively upgraded their cards (4.0, 4.5).

It cannot possibly be because Nvidia architectures are forward-looking, and thus AMD doesn't have an upscaler that can reach the image quality of Nvidia running 4.5 in performance mode.

And when they get FSR4 INT8 unofficially, they get stuck having to spend 12.2ms on N22 doing a 1080p to 2160p. Because AMD didn't think gamers needed tensor cores until Nvidia proved that they do.

No, it's because 93% of GPU buyers are dumbasses who don't know what's good for them. 🤔

The reality is that consumers are hyper-rational. They understand at this point that the high VRAM on AMD GPUs is bait. It's why they demand that an AMD GPU be 15-30% cheaper than the raster equivalent at Nvidia. It's also why they don't care when AMD offers lots of VRAM.

How long have you been building pc's?

To bring up Linux drivers in defense of people buying Nvidia is... something.

A physical memory advantage is now bait? Nvidia's whole push since the RTX cards launched has been for RT and it requires more vram. What are you on about? Having more vram has proven over and over again since the launch of the GPU to be beneficial.

Face it, aside from the minor upscaling advantage (which let's face it is so small now it doesn't even matter) and PT advantage (which you need no less than 4090 to actually run well) what does Nvidia offer that justifies you running a card that you have to immedialtey lower textures on? It's not drivers these days, that's for sure.

Edit:


So in what world is a 5070 better than a 9070 again?
 
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I get it, I won't buy an 8gb card again, but it will be enough for this gen(next 3 years?). We will see how it performs in gta 6 though, when that port happens ofc.
 
To bring up Linux drivers in defense of people buying Nvidia is... something.
I am bringing it to say that RDNA2/3 have been falling behind Nvidia equivalents with time as AMD has long defacto put them on maintenance mode.

RX 6700 XT was 5% behind the 3070 on launch. Now on windows? 5% behind 3060 Ti. That's why the Linux actively supported RadV driver keeps destroying windows.

AMD buyers might not get this directly. But they see their old GPUs gradually losing ground. And it does matter that AMD after sales software support is a huge factor against AMD.
 
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A physical memory advantage is now bait?
It's a value trap. You can put 64GB on a 9060 XT but it will never be a 5060 Ti equal.

Actually let me let Lisa Su's strongest soldier explain it.



All AMD has to do is sell you a subpar knockoff of existing leaders in graphics for a cheaper price, and people who have a frugal mindset will go for their GPUs.
 
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The 5060 Ti 8GB delivers a monstrous amount of performance at a relatively cheap price thanks to 8GB. Around 15-20% faster than the PS5 Pro, but with a PS6-level feature set. An absolute steal at $379.

Too bad the PS5 Pro with it's superior VRAM config smashes it at 4K/30fps, and even 60fps sometimes. You're not getting PS5 Pro speed without compromising on texture and model quality (really important to high fidelity games). Stellar Blade on that machine will give you an inferior version to the base PS5, let alone PS5 Pro. Texture/Model Quality is the second most impactful setting for visual presentation aside from lighting. Without high quality models, why even get a better graphics card?

The entire point of better hardware now is to allow developers to skip "optimisation", which is a good thing IMO. If streaming assets gives the best possible performance to quality to effort ratio overall (and not just for PC), it should be used. I look forward to PS6 and Helix killing 8GB cards and Switch 2 for good. The conversation should move to vendors providing inadequate hardware and profiteering.

RX 6700 XT was 5% behind the 3070 on launch. Now on windows? 5% behind 3060 Ti.

Citation needed.
 
Too bad the PS5 Pro with it's superior VRAM config smashes it at 4K/30fps, and even 60fps sometimes
It's trade-offs. Is limiting games to 8GB vs 10GB worth more than +20% Raster and stronger RT/AI Upscale? It depends on the game and it's scale ability. The major point is that that the 5060 Ti 8GB has a reason to exist.

Otoh, 5060 Ti 16GB for example is strictly superior in all aspects to a PS5 Pro. But that's 549$ at current prices.
 
I have seen a couple of these threads about some game not running well on an 8 gig GPU, and the amount of people defending these GPU manufacturers still selling supposedly high end GPUs with 8 gigs is silly. At some point especially when the next generation consoles arrive developers will start building games around hardware that might have 24 gigs of vram or more. I can't say when but 100% at some point 8 gigs will not be enough as it was with 512mb, and 2 gig GPUs and so on. Nvidia should not sell future GPUs with 8 gigs. Nor should Valve's steam machine have 8 gigs in 2027 or later.
 
Citation needed.

6700XT around 84.8% of 3070 here at 4K. And that's with 3070 losing a few %s points from VRAM.

6700XT TPU launch review had it at 91.2% of 3070 at 4K. (And back then the launch suite ran full performance at 4K with 8GB VRAM).

All those Linux vs windows stomp matches where linux wins by 8-12% are caused by AMD proprietary drivers for RDNA2/3 being much worse than the RadV Valve maintained open source mesa drivers.

Yes, losing 10% of your performance because AMD didn't maintain support is bad. And it will happen to RDNA4 too.

Because AMD has frozen development for RDNA2/3 outside of security and issue resolution long ago.
 
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They're not high end. Anything but. That's kinda the point.

3070 was high end, and was bad for some games 3 years later.

xx60Ti cards are not low end GPUs in any way.



vvCHZ49NiA86SQFu.jpg
8gfDSIWNk2BFOyJj.jpg

LR64j9RvktIRRNQB.jpg


Losing to 4060 power level GPU for sure is something LOL

iNXcU9sw3gx5OyPt.png
 
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Losing to 4060 power level GPU for sure is something LOL
4K on 8GB GPUs with very high textures.

AMDUB are not a serious review outlet. Recall how AMDUB VRAM coverage works
VRAM is enough for 1080p? Use 1440p or even 4K
VRAM is enough for High Textures? Use Ultra or 4K Texture Pack
VRAM is enough for Raster? Use RT
Cherrypick and prominently feature the (badly optimized) games with VRAM issues. Never re-cover them after they get fixed. And always center the blame on Nvidia rather than developers even when the port is obviously broken. (TLOU P1)
 
They're not high end. Anything but. That's kinda the point.
But they are. Only in recent years has it been the case that a $500 GPU is low end. It's not. Consoles used to be the base. I can see Nvidia selling a 6000 series GPU at $600 with 8 gigs, and being defended because its supposedly low end. It looks like Valve's offering could be close to $1000 which is not low end. The PS6 will probably still be less that than and will certainly have more than 8 gigs. We are only getting this nonsense because people defend companies doing this and they will continue to do this if people defend it.
 
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4K on 8GB GPUs with very high textures.

AMDUB are not a serious review outlet. Recall how AMDUB VRAM coverage works

1440p:

0R7YzNNdHUOaIbnL.jpg


1080p (fucked up frame times on 5060ti):

lfEo4V5bgo9491Hf.jpg


Just set textures to poop quality and you are golden

O0ktDCOfsJYwntgx.jpg


Ah, and all those technologies like Frame Generation and new v2 models of DLSS also use more VRAM - so you won't be able to turn them on in some games on 8GB cards. Class A Nvidia experience.

I had problems with some games and frame gen on 12GB 4070 and 4070TI.
 
1080p (fucked up frame times on 5060ti):
Imagine not going out of your way to pick settings that would run badly. God forbid you leave the developer settings or you tweak settings right. No, one hits the VRAM settings menu only so someone can find the precise combination of settings so they can run into VRAM problems.

And good forbid you cover games that run well and don't have VRAM issues. No, only ones that have issues get covered when reviewing 8GB 5060 Ti.

Ah, and all those technologies like Frame Generation and new v2 models of DLSS also use more VRAM - so you won't be able to turn them on in some games on 8GB cards. Class A Nvidia experience.
They barely do. We are talking MBs here kid. And they claw back VRAM and performance by running at lower resolutions……

Anyway, I don't care about AMDUB coverage. I already has repeatedly detailed why they are just spreading FUD in a completely irrational way. Please refrain from shoving it at my. I don't care. To me it's a descredited source.

The memory price correction/super cycle means that abominations like RX 9060 XT 16GB will not be allowed to exist. VRAM concern trolling is now completely tone deaf.
 
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found this , nvidia gpus struggle in cachy


Nvidia Linux driver is barren. They only started really working on it recently. Nvidia didn't open source anything, and they don't have valve paying engineers and contributors to make a driver for them.

They still mostly use the same driver core without much testing of Linux Proton vs Windows. But recently they made proton microbenches to fix Linux weaker performance. And they have made progress, but they are still behind Nvidia windows driver. AMD otoh has their windows driver 10% behind RadV.
 
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Imagine not going out of your way to pick settings that would run badly. God forbid you leave the developer settings or you tweak settings right. No, one hits the VRAM settings menu only so someone can find the precise combination of settings so they can run into VRAM problems.

And good forbid you cover games that run well and don't have VRAM issues. No, only ones that have issues get covered when reviewing 8GB 5060 Ti.


They barely do. We are talking MBs here kid. And they claw back VRAM and performance by running at lower resolutions……

Anyway, I don't care about AMDUB coverage. I already has repeatedly detailed why they are just spreading FUD in a completely irrational way. Please refrain from shoving it at my. I don't care. To me it's a descredited source.

The memory price correction/super cycle means that abominations like RX 9060 XT 16GB will not be allowed to exist. VRAM concern trolling is now completely tone deaf.

MBs? Like 500MB/0.5GB? Because that's what FG is consuming (or more).

Mf3fW0JHl8l6pkI6.png


RT and FG are pretty much instant turn off on 8GB cards.

'


Daniel Owen is part of the conspiracy as well?

QgzpINR6TQcJTN7Z.jpg


This is just 1080p. This discussion is your lies vs. me (and others) posting sources, very interesting indeed.
 
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I like hardware unboxed, but I really call they are really partial here.

While the game is not playable at max settings on a 8GB cards, it is still playable with most of the visual makeup of the game.

They forget to remember that with the money you would spend on a 5060ti 16GB you can get a 5070 12GB which is a much better card. šŸ˜…
 
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I like hardware unboxed, but I really call they are really partial here.

While the game is not playable at max settings on a 8GB cards, it is still playable with most of the visual makeup of the game.

They forget to remember that with the money you would spend on a 5060ti 16GB you can get a 5070 12GB which is a much better card. šŸ˜…

I don't think they ever recommenced 5060ti over 5070...

12GB is enough to run this game with all the features.
 
I just can't accept a 8GB card with the same GPU but performance significantly cut down by half just because of memory. 197% advantage is too much to ignore.
why not? you can use lower settings to get the full performance, or you can get the more expensive 16GB version.

would it be alright or better if nvidia removed the 8GB version so instead of currently having a 379$ 8GB card and a 549$ 16GB card it's just a 549$ 16GB card?
 
12GB is enough to run this game with all the features.
Kinda sad we're still wasting VRAM on 5060 Ti 16GB when there isn't enough memory to meet demand. it should have long been discontinued and replaced with 12GB VRAM so lower SKUs can have 9GB instead of 8GB. but they don't want to make changes to the lineup to avoid the backlash associated of improving a bad situation. The lineup should be

5050 9GB
5060 9GB
5060 Ti 9GB
5060 Ti 12GB
5070 12GB
5070S 18GB
 
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I guess i have to find the right spot for my rx9060xt 8gb. Bought it cheap used (bought from reviewer), but yeah, if the prices of the gpu's fixes, i've to see to change it with a 16gb version. Anyway, i never use rt, upscaling, fake stuff and i play in 1080p, it will probably run fine almost all maxed.
 
Kinda sad we're still wasting VRAM on 5060 Ti 16GB when there isn't enough memory to meet demand. it should have long been discontinued and replaced with 12GB VRAM so lower SKUs can have 9GB instead of 8GB. but they don't want to make changes to the lineup to avoid the backlash associated of improving a bad situation. The lineup should be

5050 9GB
5060 9GB
5060 Ti 9GB
5060 Ti 12GB
5070 12GB
5070S 18GB

Launch line up should be:

5050 9GB
5060 10GB
5060TI 12GB
5070 16GB
5070TI 16GB
5080 20-24GB

Of course that would mean different memory buses and 2GB/3GB GDDR7 modules mix.

5070 with 12GB will be in a bad position two years from now...
 
Yeah that would be nice so they won't waste so much RAM on a gimped 5060.
RTX 5060 is an amazing product.

at the same price, the alternative to a 5060 Ti 8GB is a 5050 12GB. (65% of the raster)
at the same price, the alternative to a 5060 8GB is is like a 3050 12GB. (50% of the raster)

Both would suck. thus why nvidia didn't make them.
 
Launch line up should be:

5050 9GB
5060 10GB
5060TI 12GB
5070 16GB
5070TI 16GB
5080 20-24GB
Launch Lineup was perfect as is.

As for the eventual refresh when market conditions allow it.

10GB 5060 would require them to pull a GTX 970 lol. I have actually been arguing they should do this. Unfortunately, they are trying to avoid drama. Same story for 16GB 5070.

Their plans for RTX 50 Refresh before scuttling it were
9GB
9GB
12GB
12GB
18GB
24GB
24GB
32GB
 
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