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Forza Motorsport 5 at gamescom - Spa confirmed
- Thread starter derFeef
- Start date
really? its looked fine in videos
People usually stand about 1 metre or closer from massive TVs at these events - aliasing is super apparent when you're that close to a screen.
GlamFM
Banned
True. It was even less at gamescom.
really? then LeBoef's pic is not showing further adjustments/enhancements at the pits?
laserscanning can be done in many ways and for many purposes. it can be for measuring, modelling, testing, even for creating 100mpixel photorealistic 3d scans etc.
it is obvious that turn10 is not doing the 3d laser rebuild from scratch with 100megapixel photorealistic scans. its not a cad presentation, its a racing game.
but that does certainly not exclude them from ANY use of laser scan technology, like for example the use of a mesh of data points to blend in what they already have.
I am not saying you are 100% wrong right now, I am saying we dont know enough, and you are jumping to conclusions.
I am also skeptical at this, but am trying to get some facts before I conclude.
yesterday you where certain that <<its all BS>>, and <<they just updated the advertisements on the billboards and called it a day.>>
your words, right? yes, and wrong words, to be precise.
better to just wait a little bit and see.
Our boy Wiswell is on that shit. I think we know it'll sound pretty damn good
Will it sound as good as this (from Assetto Corsa), though? I can't see it happening.
Don't underestimate Wiswell and the Turn 10 team. They know what needs to be done and with the new hardware and tools at their disposal, I'm confident that they will deliver.
Let's not forget that certain effects in PGR4 such as trans whine, turbo spool and BOV, exhaust sputter and even doppler/reverb are present and in so many ways, better than Forza(excluding engine/exhaust samples of course). In Wiswell we trust.
But yes, games like AC, CARS, RR...etc have certainly upped the bar in terms of great sounding vehicles and overall systemic effects. It's a good time to be an audio junkie...
So, how about some more footage with direct feed sound (only very slightly saturated)? MP4-12c, and another one with a Ford Focus ST in the next few minutes.
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_gc_more_forza_5-14500_en.html
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_gc_more_forza_5-14500_en.html
You're the best Blimblim...THE BEST
my man!!
eso76
Member
Blim to the rescue.
Am i the only one who remembers reading somewhere that some website was supposed to have a 15 minutes in depth walkthrough with Dan ?
I also remember someone teasing a video showing 'new' stuff.
am i imagining things ?
really? then LeBoef's pic is not showing further adjustments/enhancements at the pits?
laserscanning can be done in many ways and for many purposes. it can be for measuring, modelling, testing, even for creating 100mpixel photorealistic 3d scans etc.
it is obvious that turn10 is not doing the 3d laser rebuild from scratch with 100megapixel photorealistic scans. its not a cad presentation, its a racing game.
but that does certainly not exclude them from ANY use of laser scan technology, like for example the use of a mesh of data points to blend in what they already have.
I am not saying you are 100% wrong right now, I am saying we dont know enough, and you are jumping to conclusions.
I am also skeptical at this, but am trying to get some facts before I conclude.
yesterday you where certain that <<its all BS>>, and <<they just updated the advertisements on the billboards and called it a day.>>
your words, right? yes, and wrong words, to be precise.
better to just wait a little bit and see.
Wrong words? Not in the slightest.
Those adjustments made to the pits aren't a sign of laserscanning, neither is all the life they had added to the track. In fact, all of this is to be expected when it's a game for a console with more power. When I say that they just updated the advertisements on the billboard I mean that the only thing they have done to bring the track up to date (that means as it looks now, or as it looked in 2012) is that, and adding a couple of tarmac runoffs that were missing. The life on the track doesn't have anything to do with the track being up to date, for all I care the track could be totally empty (as in a track day) or full of life as it is now (like in an ALMS race) and that wouldn't change the fact that the track is outdated.
If you claim you laserscanned your tracks that only means one thing, and everyone who plays racing sims in a serious level knows it. I already posted pictures of what laserscanning a track means, but anyway:
Assetto Corsa:
If I see a track that still looks like it's 2004 counterpart with minor touches here and there to make it look like it has been updated (again, track life doesn't count) and that still presents inaccuracies in elevation changes and so on, then to me it's pretty clear they haven't laserscanned that track, end of the story. So yeah, it's BS from the moment they claim to have gone back to laserscan all the tracks yet the first real world track we see shows no signs of being laserscanned.
I guess with the evidence presented anyone can draw it's own conclusions, but to me it's pretty clear and I don't need any more facts or wait for some more info. The track hasn't been laserscanned.
Thanks so much man, you and your crew are the best.
again you are "translating" everything as you comprehend it.SparksBCN said:
I would count as laser scanning improvement, the blend of a laser scanned mesh of data points on tarmac, to the existing stuff that t10 already has created.
this is not very far from the little that was said:
you only count as laser scan what only qualifies in your mind as laser scan.
with this I dont agree.
anyway, I am sure down the road we will have more details, now lets see what blim did for us again
Blim and Gamersyde to the rescue.
Dam music drowning out the cars.
However, it seems that Turn 10 have finally addressed driveline flex. In the Ford video, you can hear some trans wobble between shifts. This effect should be more pronounced as we upgrade to dog boxes. Other games such as iRacing,pCars..etc are doing this but it's such a relief that Turn 10 are doing it as well.
Reverb man, reverb is SO MUCH better!
It's quite evident when around bigger obstacles such as the grand stands.
Positioning also sounds so much better.
Exhaust effects are so crisp and distinct. The crackling of the exhaust after heavy revs is heavenly.
Still waiting to hear the turbo and trans whine effects but after hearing the enhancemets of the other stuff, I have no doubt they will be great as well.
So fucking excited!!
you rule
so, focus sounds good, in bonnet cam you can hear more of the turbo building boost, in cabin you get more of the exhaust noise. sounds good and on par with reality.
I also liked the fact that the backfire-athlon that ferrari was, is not happening in focus st.
at all! which is on par too.
btw, did I see dirt being flown around by the wind further out of the track, or is my imagination running wild with maybe some tv reflections?
also, on the very last turn where st pushes out the S3, then turn the camera to look at it, the S3 has the daylight leds on.
p.s blim, thanks again, you are number 1!
I also liked the fact that the backfire-athlon that ferrari was, is not happening in focus st.
at all! which is on par too.
btw, did I see dirt being flown around by the wind further out of the track, or is my imagination running wild with maybe some tv reflections?
also, on the very last turn where st pushes out the S3, then turn the camera to look at it, the S3 has the daylight leds on.
p.s blim, thanks again, you are number 1!
engine sounds great, i dont think the tire sounds are too good though and as the other guy said the dynamic music is laughable
also i love how the AI name above the cars is reflected in the bonnet ha
CadetMahoney
Member
Vid was good.
tire sounds are good.
well, the music being dynamic, always means we can turn it off
i guess they went for a tension-building music atmosphere with this.
i dont know if it will work well in the career, but for a single 1:30 lap I would play something more ..catchy in my demo.
still, no big deal.
and yes, the reflections are really good, as we saw from yesterday 8)
tire sounds are good.
well, the music being dynamic, always means we can turn it off
i guess they went for a tension-building music atmosphere with this.
i dont know if it will work well in the career, but for a single 1:30 lap I would play something more ..catchy in my demo.
still, no big deal.
and yes, the reflections are really good, as we saw from yesterday 8)
I understand that some people would like some drama with their racing and the dynamic score is a good way of doing it.
But c'mon man, as if you wouldn't want to listen to a V12 or straight 6 flying down a straight at full ball instead?!?
That shit is downright orgasmic.
apparently wrong camber and stuff, i am not too familiar with the track so i cant comment
But if the tarmac was laserscanned, the section that goes from Turn 5 to the Corkscrew would be correct and it isn't, it shows the same inaccuracies present since Forza 1, so if the envinroment is still outdated, and the track is still inaccurate, why should I believe that the track has been laserscanned? Specially since the article on Forza website makes no mention whatosever of the track being laserscanned (they do mention it about Spa).
No, I count as laserscan what any game with laserscanned tracks does. Any game that claims to have laserscanned tracks (iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Simraceway, pCARS...) does this, yet I have to think that Turn 10 has used some unusual method that doesn't translate visually to the track. Yeah, right...
The track is outdated, missing all the work that was done to it in 2005 when MotoGP arrived there (Extended runoff at turn 1, the old Media Center had to be demolished to make room and a new one was built far from the circuit. The walls at the climb from Turn 6 to the Corkscrew were moved far away from the track, a spinning Mazda logo was added at the top of the scoreboard, the kerbs between turns 5 and 6 at the right side of the track were joined into a continous kerb, and a red extension was added at the inside of the kerbs), the camber at turn 5 and the entrance of the Corkscrew is wrong, and the elevation from turn 6 to the Corkscrew is wrong as well.
I would say the track has the same width, but they are using a less aggresive FOV that makes it look tighter.
soundscream
Member
Yes. They just added the runoff on the inside, but that's just changing the texture and properties of that area. They did the same with Road America and Circuit de Catalunya in Forza 4, adding a few missing tarmac runoffs.
I guess the reason you're asking these comes from the laserscanning debate. What you need to understand is that what laserscanning does is create a point cloud 3D modeling of the envinroment with a sub-inch accuracy, like this (I'm posting iRacing examples because we're talking about a racing game, but just search for "laserscan" on Google Images and you get the same result applied to buildings, cars, mountains, whatever...):
If they went back to laserscan the track, it would reflect all the changes done to it since 2005 that they aren't present in the game, and it would have the right camber and elevation changes, which doesn't (it's very obvious at the entrance of the Corkscrew). The conclusion I can draw from these Gamescom videos compared to how the track was in Forza 4 leads me to believe that they haven't laserscanned it, they just changed the ads in the billboards and bridges, and they added a couple of tarmac runoffs, something that doesn't need laserscanning at all (Forza 4 already did it for a couple of tracks as I said earlier).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lDhKFlpAFI4#t=20 @4:00
Just a quick search but this guy laser scanned a track using a basic method and it only got the track and he had to have other guys build the environment.
And even lets say they did the method you had above, they would have to dedicate more time to changing the environments, when its more likely they just copied the new info into their pre-existing environment. Which makes more sense seeing as its a launch game, and I doubt they would have time to recreate all of their real world tracks.
first of all, there ARE differences in the track itself, even in the corkscrew. it not worth my time trying to over-analyze right now, from only a couple of videos we have, but there are differences.
some parts I think its narrower, some other parts wider.
but most importantly, you are still WRONG in translating everything according to what you think.
as i wrote the first day of gamescom, turn10 could even have used the fucking kinect for scanning, and still they would be entitled to say "scanned tracks"
in terms of environments, forza beats the shit out of iracing for example, so it just would not make that much sense (if any at all) to scrap everything and go for laser point to point for the environment.
furthermore, you are still wrong about what you claim that turn10 has said nothing about tracks other than spa.
i even put the link for you before, looks like your ideas stuck in your head forbid your reading skills.
so I put the link one more time, again for you, hoping that you may read it this time.
http://www.oxm.co.uk/60709/previews...za-motorsport-5s-tracks-make-use-of-xbox-one/
I care a lot about what forza will be, but am not prepared to start yelling just because I do not have my facts straight.
You on the other hand, you clearly prefer to jump to conclusions. exactly like the other time, when you made me explain 20 times the forza4 wheel offset mods.
Just give it a little time, and we will have more facts to base our criticism on.
I believe he only came on in FM4 part-way through production. During a talk at some university thing, he never really went into doing sound for FM4, kinda just went straight from Blur into "some exciting new stuff" (or something along those lines), obviously referring to FM5. So I'm hoping there's something seriously special about the sound in this one, but I somehow doubt it's at the level of realism we heard in that clip I posted from Kunos.
Xboner day.
I see the same inaccuracies present since Forza 1. Just look at the camber at the entrance of the Corkscrew, which IRL blocks the view further ahead but in Forza is almost flat.
I'm not translating according to what I think. Laserscanning a track means ONE thing, ask to anybody who plays racing sims. Look how they do it in all the games that have laserscanned tracks. Anyone who knows previous games with laserscanned tracks will assume, rightfully so, that Turn 10 has done the same, since it's what ALL RACING GAMES WITH LASERSCANNED TRACKS DO. Really, do some research before telling me that I'm wrong, look how laserscanning is done, everyone does it the same way, but I assume Turn 10 are special and use the term for something else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wcH-ABa3xY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcqLEIE8MBk
http://www.bobstrackbuilder.net/laser_scanning.aspx
Oh, and if they used Kinect then it wouldn't be "laserscanned".
They don't need to scrap everything. pCARS started with tracks that were ridiculously wrong (Bathurst, for example) and they adjusted what they had to the new data and references they got from the members.
Maybe you should read better:
This article: http://forzamotorsport.net/en-US/news/FM5_Gamescom_2013
I'm not giving the OXM article much credibility because it wouldn't be the first time an article claims something about a Forza game that turns out to be a misquote, or a half truth, or directly a lie.
You keep saying I'm wrong but you are not proving me wrong, you are just making assumptions and saying that "my idea" of what laserscanning is it's wrong.
phosphor112
Banned
I agree 100%
Yep that's correct. He joined the team when the design has already been put in place.
You know, it's one thing to hear the cars in stock form, which sound very promising indeed, but I'd love to hear how a modified vehicle will now sound like. Even the humble Civic, when mods have been applied will sound menacing. So, it'll be interesting to hear how racing turbo's, racing gearboxes, big cams, weight reduction mods..etc will have an effect on the sound output.
Imo, one thing that will have a tremendous affect on the 'racey' sounds (something that FM4 crucially lacked)... will be proper straight cut gear whine and general driveline flex. If they can pull that off, then that would be a massive step towards an authentic and immersive experience currently heard in games like Cars, RR, iRacing..etc.
Please not this again. Its a fov thing.
I've seen more videos of laguna and it looks different from FM4, including elevation changes and camber, but its hard be 100% sure with offscreen videos or without a direct comparison. And Laguna is not even that innacurate. We should have a better comparison in nurburgring or tsukuba.
By the way, searching for videos of laserscanning I found this: http://monzarace.tv/en/Yzy8MvE/Autodromo/videogame-of-monza-a-laser-scanner-on-the-monza-track
They talk about a Microsoft team laserscanning Monza for an upcoming game that they can't say it's name. Could we be getting Monza in Forza 5?
They talk about a Microsoft team laserscanning Monza for an upcoming game that they can't say it's name. Could we be getting Monza in Forza 5?
Well hello.
dragonelite
Member
I thought that was exactly what you wanted to have track data.
Encode dimples in the road into one of the texture channels to look up.
Nice find!!
I swear though, if any other track has been included at the expense of Bathurst, I will be very, very happy....I mean angry.
I knew about this guy, but I don't think it can be compared since it was just one guy with years old technology. For example, a member on the pCARS forum provided data for Bathurst using a stereo camera mounted on the roof of his car, and the result was a 3D mesh of the track and part of the closest envinroment. I'm pretty sure T10 are using better equipment and can get better results.
I could understand to a certain point not updating the envinroment, but what about the kerbs?
Same. If we for example had Monza before Bathurst I will be VERY pissed off. At least we're getting Spa...
I find it strangely difficult to converse with you...
for you, gospel is a PR article found in turn10's site, signed by the community manager (so, second hand info at best)
but when the man responsible himself, matt collins, the official turn 10 art director,
is presented in the official microsoft place in an interview to speak about the game,
and he gets quoted about how the Czech police stopped them while laser-scanning, and he gets quoted for saying that THEY DID REDO ALL TRACKS WITH LASER SCANNED DATA,
then this for you is something that probably is misquote, wrong, lie etc.
does not compute my friend...
I find it strangely difficult to converse with you...
for you, gospel is a PR article found in turn10's site, signed by the community manager (so, second hand info at best)
but when the man responsible himself, matt collins, the official turn 10 art director,
is presented in the official microsoft place in an interview to speak about the game,
and he gets quoted about how the Czech police stopped them while laser-scanning, and he gets quoted for saying that THEY DID REDO ALL TRACKS WITH LASER SCANNED DATA,
then this for you is something that probably is misquote, wrong, lie etc.
does not compute my friend...
quite sure there is an e3 video interview with dan saying the same thing too.
I find it strangely difficult to converse with you...
for you, gospel is a PR article found in turn10's site, signed by the community manager (so, second hand info at best)
but when the man responsible himself, matt collins, the official turn 10 art director,
is presented in the official microsoft place in an interview to speak about the game,
and he gets quoted about how the Czech police stopped them while laser-scanning, and he gets quoted for saying that THEY DID REDO ALL TRACKS WITH LASER SCANNED DATA,
then this for you is something that probably is misquote, wrong, lie etc.
does not compute my friend...
Είναι εντάξει ο φίλος μου. Ίσως θα πρέπει να περιμένετε πριν να συνεχίσετε με αυτήν τη συζήτηση;
You do know that Brian Eckberg is a part of the T10 team and works at the studio... Right? So the "second hand info at best" is debateable.
I was asking before (I don't remember if in this or the other thread) to a video or audio were I could hear a T10 employee saying that. I remember Dan saying they went back to SOME of the old tracks, but not all of them.
haha you are right! i already said that myself, still its too early TO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS,
but maybe jumping to conclusions is a new forza mini-game or something.
anyways, if you say he is alright, then he is alright 8)
come on man!! he is definitely second hand in news for art, when you compare with what the art director himself says.
I think you, and everybody, can easily understand this.
anyway, my friend above vouched for you, so I'm stopping. one last time, i suggest you wait a bit to get more facts. but do as you like
My problem is not who says it, but the media. See, I remember reading articles that supposedly quoted someone from Turn 10 saying that all cars had Autovista, or that when making a weight reduction the panels inside came off and this was reflected on the cockpit view, or whatever. Sometimes they have been complete lies, like when they said all cars were remodeled for Forza 3 with 10 times the polygons from Forza 2, yet some cars presented the same modeling errors since Forza 1 (F40, S2000 or NSX being major offenders here).
That's why I'm cautios with statements picked up by gaming websites, since it seems misquoting is as usual as breathing. That and the fact that the article on the official website makes no mention of the track being laserscanned (I guess they tell him more or less what to say, so I think this should be something important to remark if it was true) are the things that bother me.
Anyway, I don't have anything to add to this discusion. I already made my point, now the only thing I can do is wait for new tracks to be revealed and see how things turn out.
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