I think 10-13 episodes is fine but it fits into the constraints of the way HBO has done TV, the production timeline, cost per episode and distribution. It would be nice if we got more out of it, but I think the network is just set on not changing this 'fundamental' of their network.
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
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bengraven
Member
Too bad we (series)
only see her twice in three books. I'm still confused how such a major character in the series, dies, and is suddenly resurrected, but becomes a third tier character.
Steelyuhas
Member
No, ASOS is confirmed two seasons, along with this current season having some ASOS in it and some ACOK will be season 3. Of course AFFC and ADWD will have an entire reorganization for the show as well.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I think they're fine. I felt that way about the first few episodes of the first season, but as far as this season goes it feels better. With the possible exception of the very first scene of the season.
Series
I think she'll become a bigger player in Book 6. George probably left her alone to keep the air of mystery about her.
Oh good (hadn't read the renewal news). This show is going to be 10 seasons long at that rate. The kids will be full fledged adults and some of the adults will be looking haggard.
In the article they said two of their favorite scenes are in Book 3. Obviously [ASOS]
RW
Moon Door?
bengraven
Member
First part:
yeah, Jaime's on his way to her now that I think of it
Second part:
Mountain vs. Viper? "then I raped her while her kid's brains were all over my fists"
Choking scene?
Sansa's castle?
Choking scene?
Sansa's castle?
I would be SHOCKED if (ASOS)
wasn't the end of season 3. I think that's the kind of cliffhanger you have to end with. I guess they could go the Ned route and make it episode 9.
I can't quite remember where it falls in the book but they could modify things as needed to make that happen.
RW
I can't quite remember where it falls in the book but they could modify things as needed to make that happen.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
ASOS
It's about 2/3s through the book. And I definitely think it'll cap off season 3. They can spend the entire season building up to it and it will get people talking like nothing else. Some will be pissed and vow to never come back, but they said that with Ned and they came back. Plus there's too much awesomeness in season 4 to ignore.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
ASOS
I don't think the Ned comparison is totally valid. The Red Wedding is a much more frustrating and upsetting event than Ned's death was. I've heard dozens of readers, these being young fantasy fans or other GAF posters, who quit reading for weeks after that event. When it comes to an average TV viewer, do you really think nobody would quit watching? Add to that the fact that the RW will undoubtedly be worse on TV than it was in the book as we'll be watching Robb over the next 2-3 seasons. Plus a well shot and composed film sequence will be more upsetting than text 9 times out of 10.
I don't know that I'd say it'll doom the show like some would say, but I do think a not insignificant portion of viewers will quit watching if they end Season 3 that way. Especially if Joffrey's death doesn't quickly follow it.
I don't know that I'd say it'll doom the show like some would say, but I do think a not insignificant portion of viewers will quit watching if they end Season 3 that way. Especially if Joffrey's death doesn't quickly follow it.
bengraven
Member
Exactly. SOS is pure awesome. No need to worry that after THAT scene people will lose interest.
My god, if they did the final scenes of season 4 similar to the ending of The Godfather - "montage style", people would be demanding season 5 likerightfuckingnow.
Also:
She almost looks cute here.
I still think Yunkai as a location is going to be cut, and the events there merged with Mereen. I think S3 will be all about Astapor and S4 will be all about Mereen.
I think Jon's S3 arc will end with Ygritte dying during the initial skirmish before the main Battle at the Wall.
And I think the cut will be the Red Wedding. There is simply no way they are going to push it back to S4. It's the logical ending to the season and the climax of Robb's, Cat's, The Boltons, The Tullys, and The Frey's story arc for S3/SoS. You cant build up to it all season and then push back the climax to the first or second episode of S4. It's just not gonna happen.
I think Jon's S3 arc will end with Ygritte dying during the initial skirmish before the main Battle at the Wall.
And I think the cut will be the Red Wedding. There is simply no way they are going to push it back to S4. It's the logical ending to the season and the climax of Robb's, Cat's, The Boltons, The Tullys, and The Frey's story arc for S3/SoS. You cant build up to it all season and then push back the climax to the first or second episode of S4. It's just not gonna happen.
Agreed. But mainly, like I said above. It's the climax for what's likely going to be a season long story arc, and that arc is one of the biggest and most important in the whole series.
That scene should either end S4 or S3. You could definitely move it up to S3 if you did
The Red Wedding in Ep9. But they'd have to give Zombie Cat some stuff to do in S4 then. Possibly showing some of the exploits of the Brotherhood instead of just hearing about them second hand.
Season 4 can easily be fleshed out by including
the Ironborn stuff from Feast into it and adding in some of the early chapters from Dance. Namely Jon's chapters. Ending S4 with him lopping off Janos Slynt's head would work well. Plus they'll have plenty of room to add new scenes and possibly even a flashback or two.
Disagree. For me The Red Wedding is a perfect ending point of a season long arc. After the RW, you don't really see the Freys, Tullys, or Roose much until the events of Feast and Dance.
Also, now that S3 is officially a go, let's start the casting discussion!
Here's the main list we likely need/want for S3.
Ramsay Snow
Mance Rayder
Edmure Tully
The Blackfish
Vargo Hoat
Qyburn
Meera Reed
Jojen Reed
Beric Dondarrion
Thoros of Myr
Strong Belwas
Missandei
Grey Worm
Queen of Thorns
Mace Tyrell
Randyll Tarly
Tormund Giantsbane
Val
Styr
Mance Rayder
Edmure Tully
The Blackfish
Vargo Hoat
Qyburn
Meera Reed
Jojen Reed
Beric Dondarrion
Thoros of Myr
Strong Belwas
Missandei
Grey Worm
Queen of Thorns
Mace Tyrell
Randyll Tarly
Tormund Giantsbane
Val
Styr
I think
The Red Viper and Darrio
Greyjoy Brothers will be in S4, but it's possibly they can introduce Victarion or Aeron early. Especially Victarion, since he's basically just reaving The North during the events of the first half of SoS and the writers could easily bring him to Winterfell to interact with Asha and Theon.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Structurally it is no more the climax of those plotlines than it is the preamble to the rest of the book.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, upon reflection I agree on all counts. Merging Dany's story like that makes a lot of sense.
I will bathe in the tears of the TV viewers! You say upsetting, I am PUMPED for htat, my heart was racing reading that scene and I was FREAKED they were going to off arya aswell.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
How could people stop reading after that?! It was one of most ballsy moves in the series to that point. That's crazy.
I might read another chapter of AFFC now.
I might read another chapter of AFFC now.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
ASOS
I think any viewer loss would be negligible. People who have been with the show for three years aren't just going to ignore it. Some will be pissed, how could they kill my favorites. But 9 months later when previews start rolling around and the hype builds most will come back, and those that don't will come back once the series gets rolling again and all the awesome shit starts happening.
ASOS
Yeah, I don't understand why people would quit reading after that chapter. After reading it, my reaction was "Damn that sucks, but damn that was so good," what happens next? What will be the fallout? Shit just got incredibly real!
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I think if one thing's obvious it's that there's going to be no agreement about this and people will probably be arguing about it from now until that finally airs and probably after as well. Certainly no disrespect towards any who I disagree with, I just truly want to see this book done justice on TV. It's a real shame HBO can't afford to produce a long season because it's clear that the problem arises from having to divide such a fucking masterpiece of a book in the first place. Every event in that book is so well interlaced that I seriously do not envy the job of having to split it up.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
a 15/16 episode season would have been about perfect. But yeah, given budget and time constraints, they just can't do it.
I agree with this entirely.
You people are deluding yourselves if you think they won't suffer a significant drop in viewership if they choose to end a season on that scene. If the book had ended there and I had to wait a year to see what happened next, I wouldn't have even bothered coming back because I was so pissed. And I imagine reactions of TV viewers will be even worse.
Also, for people talking about Ned's death ending season 1, that's wrong. It ended with Dany hatching fucking dragons. I'm sure if episode 9 was the last episode of season 1 they would have lost a lot of viewers.
I'll agree with this.
Steelyuhas
Member
ASOS
RW is not just about the death of key characters, it's about the complete and instant destruction of a Kingdom, the forces that almost everyone is pulling for. I honestly put the book down for a few days after that. In the show it will be much worse, and I think they've nailed the Starks in the show and pull like those characters more than in the books, and obviously Robb is a much bigger character in the show, and is all sorts of badass (Richard Madden's performance is so awesome). I do think it's absurdly cruel to end a season like that, and yes, some viewers won't come back, but I still think that RW should be in season 4 for narrative reasons more than cruelty of ending a season like that or concerns of losing viewers.
I do realize that RW ending season three is relatively likely though, and it can still be great there, but I personally think about 1/3 through season 4 is the better narrative choice, especially if these rumors of the sacking of Winterfell being pushed to season 3 are true. My 2 cents.
I do realize that RW ending season three is relatively likely though, and it can still be great there, but I personally think about 1/3 through season 4 is the better narrative choice, especially if these rumors of the sacking of Winterfell being pushed to season 3 are true. My 2 cents.
Season 1 had the King in the North scene, which pretty much made up for Ned's death in pure awesomeness.
ASOS
I still find it hard to believe people were attached to Ned that much.
I find this talk of entertaining the idea of viewers leaving and never coming back because of ending on that particular scene hilarious. Like it's even a credible threat. I hope they end it there now just for the comedy.
All those tasty tears can't come fast enough.
I still find it hard to believe people were attached to Ned that much.
I find this talk of entertaining the idea of viewers leaving and never coming back because of ending on that particular scene hilarious. Like it's even a credible threat. I hope they end it there now just for the comedy.
Steelyuhas
Member
Sean Bean man.
Gets you attached.
I got over that, boy was I pissed at the time though lol.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
he dies in everything, should have been expected
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, I don't get it either. When a show takes an incredible dip in quality and you're bored senseless by it, then I can see people leaving. This is the exact opposite. Pissed people will come back for curiosity's sake. Plus 9 months later is plenty of time to heal butthurt..
I don't know about but it sure shocked the shit outta me while reading the first book. When I started the next chapter I was almost hoping he had actually made it alive somehow.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Big block of black text incoming!
ASOS
Yeah, I agree completely. Here's what I said about the whole thing a couple months ago:
Look, I think it'd be the greatest troll in the world to end S3 on the bodies of Robb and Cat, but it's just not a breaking point. When you read it, you had a few hundred pages to go through. When Ned died, you had an episode to go in the last season, and I think for the sake of the audience you NEED to have levity fairly quickly after an event like this; not a year later.
I loved Ned, and was pissed when he died, but at the same time I was excited to see what would happen next because of it.
With (ASOS)
the Red Wedding, I was just pissed and full of blind rage. I wasn't excited about what this would result in, I just wanted to punch GRRM in the face and throw the book into a fire. The only faction with any measurable amount of power that I had any sympathy left for had been completely destroyed. It was devastating and if the book had ended there I wouldn't have even bothered picking up the next one.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know about but it sure shocked the shit outta me while reading the first book. When I started the next chapter I was almost hoping he had actually made it alive somehow.
Yeah. Martin seems to love setting up road-maps for characters that seem super interesting ("Ned will take the Black!" ---> omg, Jon and Ned at the Wall storyline) only to fucking crush them a few chapters later.
One of the less dramatic, but still fairly frustrating moments in SoS
was when Sansa was set up to move to Highgarden. The characters surrounding her there seemed, at the time anyway, super-interesting and it gave her character something significant to do, or a chance to grow, or something, only to have her locked in King's Landing for the rest of the book a few chapters later. Also, while I'm here inside SoS spoiler tags, I was kind of devastated that we never got to see more of Oberyn. For as little screen-time (...yes, screen-time) as he got in the book, he was such an amazing character.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
ADWD SPOILERS
Jon leading an army of wildlings to take back Winterfell from Ramsay... in this instance he crushed your hopes just a few paragraphs later.
Yup.
catotheyounger
Member
ASOS spoilarz:
Considering that this season will feature Jeyne Westerling, their romance sets up the repercussions of the RW for next season. So regardless if the RW happens in the last third of ASOS, it seems as if the writers are thematically setting it up to close out season3. If they hold the RW for season4, which I would be shocked if they do, it would happen early - so much so that there would not be any real time to build up to it. With Jeyne's presence this season, RW for season 3 seems almost in the bag.
IAmtheFMan
Member
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I can't highlight either of your posts, I'm still only a few chapters into AFFC.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
ASOS
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. The Red Wedding essentially symbolizes the destruction of (almost) all hope that the "good guys" will have any sort of victory in this world. When Ned dies it's shocking because he was clearly a good guy and you see that that doesn't work in this world. But quickly you shift your loyalty to Robb, who seems a smarter Ned, and seems to be doing pretty well in his war. And then he and his mother are murdered in a brutal way.
Plenty of readers felt hopeless after the RW. Who is there to root for? There's nobody who is both likable and in a position to have any success. If you leave the viewer in this position for 9 months rather than having the ability to read another 300 pages of awesome right away, I think you're discounting too much the possibility that people will just stop caring.
On another note which others have mentioned, there is in my opinion zero chance that season 3 actually ends with the RW as a cliffhanger as some people seem to want. HBO doesn't work that way (see: Ned dies in episode 9 and the structure of almost every other HBO series). If the RW is in season 3 Joffrey will die there too, which will probably save them quite a bit.
Plenty of readers felt hopeless after the RW. Who is there to root for? There's nobody who is both likable and in a position to have any success. If you leave the viewer in this position for 9 months rather than having the ability to read another 300 pages of awesome right away, I think you're discounting too much the possibility that people will just stop caring.
On another note which others have mentioned, there is in my opinion zero chance that season 3 actually ends with the RW as a cliffhanger as some people seem to want. HBO doesn't work that way (see: Ned dies in episode 9 and the structure of almost every other HBO series). If the RW is in season 3 Joffrey will die there too, which will probably save them quite a bit.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
While ADWD is mentioned here, is it possible to read AFFC and ADWD concurrently, as they take place concurrently? Or is it still a case where ADWD will spoil events of AFFC inadvertently?
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Ha! We had posted the exact same thing. And yeah, for the love of God do not highlight.
It's possible. I'm sure there are guides out there, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Boardwalk Empire Season 2 Spoiler
We'll get kind of a test run here in a bit. At the end of Season 2 Jimmy got shot in the face and the internet was filled with the tears of his fan. We'll see what happens when season 3 rolls out.
Basileus777
Member
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
yeah, I figured it wouldn't work. thanks!
ASOS
I'm more of a Tyrion and Daenerys fan myself. When Rob and Catelyn died I was like, "Holy shit." Put the book down for 10 minutes and then kept going. There's plenty of people to root for like Jon and Daenerys (personally I always root for Tyrion too). As far as power goes, aren't the good guys supposed to have it tough? Can't have the good guy on top 3 seasons in to a 8 season (minimum) show.
Cornballer
Member
That's a remarkable amount of black text from this thread tonight, gentlemen. Fine work.
I did a rewatch of The Night Lands tonight. The Arya-Gendry-Hot Pie-Lommy scene at the river is pure gold. Hot Pie is hilarious.
A couple potentially gif-able moments if Plywood has the time/interest:
- Bronn's smile when they arrest Janos Slynt
- Arya shoving Gendry
- Theon's "I bet you can" and look at Yara
- Balon ripping the necklace/cloak off Theon
I did a rewatch of The Night Lands tonight. The Arya-Gendry-Hot Pie-Lommy scene at the river is pure gold. Hot Pie is hilarious.
A couple potentially gif-able moments if Plywood has the time/interest:
- Bronn's smile when they arrest Janos Slynt
- Arya shoving Gendry
- Theon's "I bet you can" and look at Yara
- Balon ripping the necklace/cloak off Theon
IAmtheFMan
Member
That's a remarkable amount of black text from this thread tonight, gentlemen. Fine work.
Yeah well, this was bound to happen with the news of a S3 renewal and the eternal speculation about where and when certain SoS events will occur.
That's a remarkable amount of black text from this thread tonight, gentlemen. Fine work.
I did a rewatch of The Night Lands tonight. The Arya-Gendry-Hot Pie-Lommy scene at the river is pure gold. Hot Pie is hilarious.
A couple potentially gif-able moments if Plywood has the time/interest:
- Bronn's smile when they arrest Janos Slynt
- Arya shoving Gendry
- Theon's "I bet you can" and look at Yara
- Balon ripping the necklace/cloak off Theon
The Arya-Gendry scene was so adorable. Gendry is a million times better in the show after that scene.
Yup, and on your last point (ASOS)
I completely agree that if the RW is s3 ep9, then Joff's death is ep10.
I would much rather them just take their time, give us more than 2 minutes of a character in an episode, and split the seasons roughly where the book splits.
I think we can all agree though that the ideal situation would be like a single 15-18 episode season.
Cornballer
Member
Oh, no doubt. I just find it funny to scroll and read through pages of it.Yeah well, this was bound to happen with the news of a S3 renewal and the eternal speculation about where and when certain SoS events will occur.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
As I was reading ACOK, I realised it was released in '98. I was seven years old. There's something horribly bizzare about that.
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