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Game pass developer payment "clarified"

draliko

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Aug 15, 2015
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Oh yeah let me worry because for all this generation at least gamepass will be a great value, you know maybe 6 years from now it will sucks, so i should be smart and stop playing and paying now, even if it's worth it's weight in gold. You people are seriously disconnected from the real world, be honest with yourself, you hate the service because it's not on sony otherwise would be the best thing on earth. This forum is so strange, should be a gaming forum, you know about games, instead it's full of all the people didn't get a job at ms or sony because they were clearly too smart in the ways of moneymaking and running trillion dollar companies.
Just play the damn games and argue about that, the market adapt itself, you know gaming existed even bevfore sony come along? You know sony killed someone else? So if the story tends to repeat itself someone one day will take their place, MS? dunno, maybe, amazon, who knows. In the mean time enjoy the games (at least sometimes).
And btw about the 1$ deal, you know 99% of gamers don't spend times on forums and looking for deals, they simply have the disposable income to play what they want and buy day1 what they like.... gaf is not the world (luckly), we are just a small number of hardcore gamers, surely a drop in the ocean.
 

Chukhopops

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Mar 5, 2020
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Lol, you sound like a damn old fart who refuses to see the future. You acted like those who hated the idea of Netflix is the next thing for movies and probably hated the idea of music streaming services like Spotfiy. I'm sure if Sony did that, you would clap for them right?
I really tried to make the sarcasm obvious but it seems I failed...

I love Gamepass, I’m a subscriber and I literally made a post on r/xboxone three days ago analyzing how good it is.
 

sainraja

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Aug 15, 2007
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What are they trying to position now then? It's been a while I was up to date with xbox so I'm curious.

huh? They've been working on positioning Game Pass to be the main reason to get an Xbox. If Game Pass had been around since the start of last generation and was 100% profitable now, I would agree with your original statement but it is not there yet.
 
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Jigsaah

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Jan 31, 2018
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Just let the shit play out.
 
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The_Mike

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huh? They've been working on positioning Game Pass to be the main reason to get an Xbox. If Game Pass had been around since the start of last generation and was 100% profitable now, I would agree with your original statement but it is not there yet.

Let's say If xbox gained 80 million extra players because of game pass, and let's say just 50 million got xbox live, that's 5 bln dollars yearly.
 

Elder Legend

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Jun 10, 2019
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Doesn't really address the issues I raised. I don't buy games like a glutton who needs undifferentiated "new" above all else. I cancelled my Netflix and my PS+ for the same reason.

That's your personal choice then. But to outright say "you ain't gonna see all the content offered by the game within those first few months."

Sounds like a complete load of bull and completely falls. You can easily finish Monster Hunter World within 3 to 4 months of not even within 4 weeks if thats the only game you play. And you can easily finish both Red Dead 2 and MHW and get a platinum in both games if you are dedicated and know what the fuck you are doing.

Anyone that needs 3 or more months to finish a game and see all content is either A) not a gamer B) has horrible attention span, C) Just says shit to say shit while trying to sound like they have any value of what they are saying to feel validated on the interwebs and you seem to fall into this category. Sorry.

If you haven't completed any games, if you haven't tried all the platforms and if you haven't experienced these things for at least multiple months yourself on all fronts you absolute provide 0 value on this matter and have no place to talk.
 
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They got a million subs per month recently over a 5 month period.

That was without any AAA exclusive whatsoever. Imagine what happens once Fable, Avowed release and the rest of their recent purchases pump out games. Starfield, Elder Scrolls, Doom Forever.

I bet you 5 bucks those will start releasing once all the gold conversion deals are expired and you're forced to decide between resubbing for regular price or buying the games for 70$/80€/120AUD.

my gold conversion already expired and I started buying whenever there was a discount. I am set till this month 2023. The people thinking gold subs are hurting MS are seriously retarded. People gobble up GP ultimate even at regular prices.

Anyone who thinks MS will drop this when the subs are going through the roof is a complete and utter moron.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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That's your personal choice then. But to outright say "you ain't gonna see all the content offered by the game within those first few months."

Sounds like a complete load of bull and completely falls. You can easily finish Monster Hunter World within 3 to 4 months of not even within 4 weeks if thats the only game you play. And you can easily finish both Red Dead 2 and MHW and get a platinum in both games if you are dedicated and know what the fuck you are doing.

Anyone that needs 3 or more months to finish a game and see all content is either A) not a gamer B) has horrible attention span, C) Just says shit to say shit while trying to sound like they have any value of what they are saying to feel validated on the interwebs and you seem to fall into this category. Sorry.

If you haven't completed any games, if you haven't tried all the platforms and if you haven't experienced these things for at least multiple months yourself on all fronts you absolute provide 0 value on this matter and have no place to talk.
You're making assumptions about every gamer's buying and playing habits and then drawing conclusions from there. Not my problem. Enjoy your coupons and "saving" money while you get led around by the nose by your subscription-holder. I gave up on that already, as I mentioned, and cancelled Netflix and PS+.

It is amusing how defensive people get about their coupons, resorting to making assumptions and dismissals to keep the fantasy going.

Meanwhile, "loss leader strategy" is a boilerplate tactic used in subscriptions since the days of magazines. I have yet to see any valid explanation as to how Microsoft will avoid those problems.
 

Elder Legend

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You're making assumptions about every gamer's buying and playing habits and then drawing conclusions from there. Not my problem. Enjoy your coupons and "saving" money while you get led around by the nose by your subscription-holder. I gave up on that already, as I mentioned, and cancelled Netflix and PS+.

It is amusing how defensive people get about their coupons, resorting to making assumptions and dismissals to keep the fantasy going.

Meanwhile, "loss leader strategy" is a boilerplate tactic used in subscriptions since the days of magazines. I have yet to see any valid explanation as to how Microsoft will avoid those problems.

I am pretty positive that a trillion dollar company who has billions to spend in studios purchases has far more experience than any of us here and know what the fuck they are doing.

If you really think that none of their financial analysts or business management people don't think those kind of issues through then you seem more ignorant than I originally thought you were. No offense.

If you also think they going to come out and explain to you exactly how they make their money then you are in for a rude awakening. That's something that most companies usually don't talk about due to competition and the nature of the internet. I am sure they have that all figured out.
 
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Bumblebeetuna

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*for 3 months, until the titles are cycled off Game Pass

And for a company like Microsoft -- which has fully embraced GaaS model -- you ain't gonna see all the content offered by the game within those first few months. But hey, at least you have the privilege of paying a subscription to play it and then paying again "at a discount" to keep it.

There doesn’t seem to be any set time that third party games stay on GamePass. Some stay three months, some longer. Microsoft titles don’t leave.

Also, since when has MS “fully embraced” GAAS? Some of their games utilize it, some don’t. Imho a company that has fully embraced it is one like Ubi or EA, who have GaaS elements in virtually all of their games and have micro transactions in most of not all of them. What GaaS elements are there to Outer Worlds, Ori, Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3? They all came out this year.

edit, maybe OW was last year? Seems maybe it was last holiday now that I think on it.
 
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Meanwhile, "loss leader strategy" is a boilerplate tactic used in subscriptions since the days of magazines. I have yet to see any valid explanation as to how Microsoft will avoid those problems.

What in the world are you even talking about here? What do magazines have to do with loss leader products?

You keep bringing up Netflix too.. when it has absolutely nothing to do with loss leading lol
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I am pretty positive that a trillion dollar companies who has billions to spend in studios purchases has far more experience than any of us here and know what the fuck they are doing.

If you really think that none of their financial analysts or business management people don't think those kind of issues through then you seem more ignorant that I originally thought you are. No offense.
So should we not discuss the topic, or....?

There doesn’t seem to be any set time that third party games stay on GamePass. Some stay three months, some longer. Microsoft titles don’t leave.

Also, since when has MS “fully embraced” GAAS? Some of their games utilize it, some don’t. Imho a company that has fully embraced it is one like Ubi or EA, who have GaaS elements in virtually all of their games and have micro transactions in most of not all of them. What GaaS elements are there to Outer Worlds, Ori, Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3? They all came out this year.
Microsoft's business model is essentially GAAS, including the subject of this thread, Game Pass. You pay for the monthly service and receive monthly games. This has even turned SP games (like the ones you mentioned) into GAAS of a sort. The purpose is to keep you paying every month instead of making a one-and-done purchase. xCloud streaming is another piece of their GAAS business plan, as well as their cross-platform initiatives.

What in the world are you even talking about here? What do magazines have to do with loss leader products?

You keep bringing up Netflix too.. when it has absolutely nothing to do with loss leading lol
I don't think you're up to speed on the terms I'm using, then. Go ahead and look em up and then maybe it'll make more sense. In our case, Microsoft is selling you $60 games (ostensibly) for less than $60, with the assumption you will remain a subscriber.

 
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Elder Legend

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So should we not discuss the topic, or....?

You don't know what to say in return, so you are looking a way to weasel out. Nice try. No one said anything about not discussing anything. But I would much prefer to discuss it with people who actually don't sound crazy/delusional and know what they are talking about. Sorry, you do not fit the bill. I am not the only saying this. Some are nicer, I am just blunt and don't beat around the bush.
 
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danielJackson

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Yeah agreed. Gamepass is such a horrible proposition. Imagine paying $15 a month to play Gears 6, Forza Horizon 5, Forza Motorsport Next, Fable, Perfect Dark Reboot, Elder Scrolls 6, DOOM next, Wolfenstein Next, Starfield, Halo Infinite, and big 3rd party titles Day 1 and not having to spend $60 to $70 per title. What a rip off.. they should be ashamed.

Absolutely horrible value. Microsoft is a joke and should end the console business immediately. They are running out of money and are on verge of bankruptcy.

Why people use this faulty agrument over and over? Day 1 isnt essential if money is the reason to wait

Nobody have to pay full price for games.

Buying used or waiting for price drops = 15-30€ for most games within 6-12 months from launch. 30-40€ within 2-4 weeks from launch.

Using full price is lazy

15*12 = 180/year
180*6 = 1080/gen
You own none
+ Pay for games that arent in the gp


For 1000€ it is easy to get 30-100 games, More than enough for 1 gen, and you own them.

And average gamer buys well under 10 games/gen.

+ Forza+gears+halo are boring shit for many, so using them as mark of value = low

Gamepass fanboys always assume that all like The same few games. GP is good value to those that get all they want in it


Why pay for super expensive subscription and hope that game you like come in it, when same money equals into more than enough to play?

If you are smart and dont play full price
 
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Bumblebeetuna

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So should we not discuss the topic, or....?


Microsoft's business model is essentially GAAS, including the subject of this thread, Game Pass. You pay for the monthly service and receive monthly games. This has even turned SP games (like the ones you mentioned) into GAAS of a sort. The purpose is to keep you paying every month instead of making a one-and-done purchase. xCloud streaming is another piece of their GAAS business plan, as well as their cross-platform initiatives.

Yeah that’s nonsense. You said the games have fully embraced GaaS and thus it’ll be months before all the content is out, yet only one of those four games I mentioned even has any DLC. And DLC released months after a game is out isn’t GaaS. It’s ok, I guess you just have a weird and wrong definition of GaaS.

Forza Horizon is a GaaS. There are content updates, free and premium. The content of the game itself is constantly changing through seasonal content and challenges. This is designed to keep the game fresh and keep you playing. A game like Ori or Gears Tactics has none of this. They have a beginning and an end. Same with Wasteland. They are the opposite of a GaaS.
 
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I don't think you're up to speed on the terms I'm using, then. Go ahead and look em up and then maybe it'll make more sense. In our case, Microsoft is selling you $60 games (ostensibly) for less than $60, with the assumption you will remain a subscriber.


I know exactly what a loss leader is.

It's abundantly clear that you don't since you keep using magazines and netflix as an example lol Magazines have never used a "loss leader" strategy.. you are using that term wrong. (you might notice for instance.. the complete lack of the words "magazine" or "subscription" in that wiki article you linked to.. as neither magazines or subscription services are typically.. loss leaders lol)
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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You don't know what to say in return, so you are looking a way to weasel out. Nice try. No one said anything about not discussing anything. But I would much prefer to discuss it with people who actually don't sound crazy/delusional and know what they are talking about. Sorry, you do not fit the bill. I am not the only saying this. Some are nicer, I am just blunt and don't beat around the bush.
No, you said that I shouldn't talk because I'm not a gamer, or I'm stirring shit, or people with trillions of dollars must know what they're talking about, or a host of other random assumptions about me. At this point there is nothing I could say to talk you out of your own assumptions about me. We're not even having a conversation, you're just quoting me and repeating the same empty nonsense as before.

Clutch your coupons closer, I guess. You seem so emotionally invested that you can't read the plain words of what I am writing.

I know exactly what a loss leader is.

It's abundantly clear that you don't since you keep using magazines and netflix as an example lol
Both magazines and Netflix allowed/allow customers to obtain things like a magazine or a movie below the going rate for each of those individual magazines/movies, and this was done to obtain marketshare with the intention of slowly cutting costs and increasing margins. It is the same thing Microsoft is doing and I expect the same outcome.

But maybe if you pile on more words like "abundantly clear", you won't have to put forth a rebuttal. Seems to be the standard in coupon threads. 🤷‍♀️

Yeah that’s nonsense. You said the games have fully embraced GaaS and thus it’ll be months before all the content is out, yet only one of those four games I mentioned even has any DLC. And DLC released months after a game is out isn’t GaaS. It’s ok, I guess you just have a weird and wrong definition of GaaS.

Forza Horizon is a GaaS. There are content updates, free and premium. The content of the game itself is constantly changing through seasonal content and challenges. This is designed to keep the game fresh and keep you playing. A game like Ori or Gears Tactics has none of this. They have a beginning and an end. Same with Wasteland. They are the opposite of a GaaS.
Wasteland, Ori, etc are not "games as a product" -- to draw a distinction -- but are taken away when your service ends.

But sure, it isn't like a battle royale GAAS shooter or something. The underlying business model -- maintaining subscription numbers instead of obtaining total game sales -- is the same. It's an extension of paying for Xbox Live and keeping you hooked into the marketplace. It has advantages and disadvantages.
 
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Spiderman (Sonys highest selling game) sold 13million, which is $780 millions of dollars (assuming everyone bought it at $60 (I got it for $10))
This means sony would need 3 games to sell 13 million copies each to make the same amount as GamePass annually.
Gamepass has 200 or so games... Not 3 games.
 
Jan 29, 2019
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Magazines have never used a "loss leader" strategy.. you are using that term wrong. (you might notice for instance.. the complete lack of the words "magazine" or "subscription" in that wiki article you linked to.. as neither magazines or subscription services are typically.. loss leaders lol)
Magazines are loss leaders, the paper you buy is there to hold the publicity, the words in the articles ARE the filler.
 
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Both magazines and Netflix allowed/allow customers to obtain things like a magazine or a movie below the going rate for each of those individual magazines/movies, and this was done to obtain marketshare with the intention of slowly cutting costs and increasing margins. It is the same thing Microsoft is doing and I expect the same outcome.

But maybe if you pile on more words like "abundantly clear", you won't have to put forth a rebuttal. Seems to be the standard in coupon threads. 🤷‍♀️
A loss leader is a product sold at a loss that encourages other spending to make up for that loss.

Like a game console; lose money on the console.. make it back when people buy games.

Netflix literally can't be a loss leader because they don't sell any sort of add-ons nor offer any additional marketplace for profit. Magazines make money via advertising; that's traditionally NOT what you'd call a loss leader.. You are just using words wrong here.. sorry.

Pro tip: learn what words mean THEN be a dick about their meaning online.. you did this backwards.
 
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iHaunter

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They keep saying it's sustainable, I still don't believe it. They are barely making any money.
 

Elder Legend

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No, you said that I shouldn't talk because I'm not a gamer, or I'm stirring shit, or people with trillions of dollars must know what they're talking about, or a host of other random assumptions about me. At this point there is nothing I could say to talk you out of your own assumptions about me. We're not even having a conversation, you're just quoting me and repeating the same empty nonsense as before.

Clutch your coupons closer, I guess. You seem so emotionally invested that you can't read the plain words of what I am writing.


Both magazines and Netflix allowed/allow customers to obtain things like a magazine or a movie below the going rate for each of those individual magazines/movies, and this was done to obtain marketshare with the intention of slowly cutting costs and increasing margins. It is the same thing Microsoft is doing and I expect the same outcome.

But maybe if you pile on more words like "abundantly clear", you won't have to put forth a rebuttal. Seems to be the standard in coupon threads. 🤷‍♀️


Wasteland, Ori, etc are not "games as a product" -- to draw a distinction -- but are taken away when your service ends.

But sure, it isn't like a battle royale GAAS shooter or something. The underlying business model -- maintaining subscription numbers instead of obtaining total game sales -- is the same. It's an extension of paying for Xbox Live and keeping you hooked into the marketplace. It has advantages and disadvantages.

For your information I do not need to clutch to any coupons buddy. I work in the industry and also work with Microsoft and other publishers for many years. I receive 1st party titles prior to their releases. Not only I am subbed to game pass as a customer but I also get free shit as well on top of it. And yes you probably think I am a shill.

This month I've saved over $300 cause Ubisoft and Activision also hooked me up for their titles. Yes, I will 100% hold to these "coupons" thank you very much. I love my job and I love my hobby.

And I was not making assumptions about you. I was giving out examples of different types of individuals. Game pass is not for everyone. No one tells you have to embrace it and love it.

I just said you simply fall into the category of not really understanding of how it works and what value it brings to people.

We as individuals have different values. But too say Gamepass has no value just reeks of either fanboyism and silly claims.

Whether you have same values or not. It may not be valuable to you but its valuable to majority of the folks and the success of gamepass shows that.

You do realize Sony is cooking something similar to Gamepass as well right? And no its not PS Now.
 

Bojanglez

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I wonder what type of contractual hell a dev faces if MS gamepass financed the game and they failed to deliver a complete product in the end.
The developers would just argue that it is as finished as most of the first party stuff when it launches on Gamepass.
 

Bojanglez

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Apr 16, 2007
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Game pass is one of the major reasons to get an Xbox. Microsoft would be suicidal to remove one of their strong features.
If Microsoft has their way, the Xbox as a physical product would be irrelevant. My bet is that abandon the box before the service.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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A loss leader is a product sold at a loss that encourages other spending to make up for that loss.

Like a game console; lose money on the console.. make it back when people buy games.

Netflix literally can't be a loss leader because they don't sell any sort of add-ons nor offer any additional marketplace for profit. You are just using words wrong here.. sorry.

Pro tip: learn what words mean THEN be a dick about their meaning online.. you did this backwards.
Tell it to the years of writers calling Hulu, Netflix, Disney+, and even music streaming "loss leader".


For your information I do not need to clutch to any coupons buddy. I work in the industry and also work with Microsoft and other publishers for many years. I receive 1st party titles prior to their releases. Not only I am subbed to game pass as a customer but I also get free shit as well on top of it. And yes you probably think I am a shill.

This month I've saved over $300 cause Ubisoft and Activision also hooked me up for their titles. Yes, I will 100% hold to these "coupons" thank you very much. I love my job and I love my hobby.

And I was not making assumptions about you. I was giving out examples of different types of individuals. Game pass is not for everyone. No one tells you have to embrace it and love it.

I just said you simply fall into the category of not really understanding of how it works and what value it brings to people.

We as individuals have different values. But too say Gamepass has no value just reeks of either fanboyism and silly claims.

Whether you have same values or not. It may not be valuable to you but its valuable to majority of the folks and the success of gamepass shows that.

You do realize Sony is cooking something similar to Gamepass as well right? And no its not PS Now.
Maybe buying habits are different and playing all the new games on a single console is incongruent with how some people engage with the hobby?

Nah, impossible. It must be because a) I'm not a real gamer, or b) I have no attention span, or c) I hate Microsoft's wonderful coupons, buddy.

Go ahead and quote where I said Gamepass has no value. Oops, another projection of yours.

Like I said, you and I aren't having a real conversation. You're making things up and then forgetting it a few minutes later.
 
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I think you guys are taking Phil's statement too literally about "funding costs"; I doubt MS is funding games at the start of development, they are making deals near the end of a game's development. So the "funding the cost" is paying the publisher for the already sunk cost of a game that's at risk of maybe not making back that cost.

MS is making these deals based on near finished products... so there's no contractual obligation to create something from scratch, it's already largely created when those deals are struck.
 

Elder Legend

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Tell it to the years of writers calling Hulu, Netflix, Disney+, and even music streaming "loss leader".



Maybe buying habits are different and playing all the new games on a single console is incongruent with how some people engage with the hobby?

Nah, impossible. It must be because a) I'm not a real gamer, or b) I have no attention span, or c) I hate Microsoft's wonderful coupons, buddy.

Go ahead and quote where I said Gamepass has no value. Oops, another projection of yours.

Like I said, you and I aren't having a real conversation. You're making things up and then forgetting it a few minutes later.

Nice way to twist words.

The "Not having sn attention span" was referring to you stating that 3 to 4 months is not time to see all the content in the game.

The "Not a real gamer" was also referring to the same claim meaning that most gamers would have no issues finishing titles in 3 to 4 months even if they are a casual gamer. If they just swap games every day.

I am sorry but thats not a gamer. Some people are OCD and not good with finishing 1 thing before moving to the next. I've done that in the past as well and guilty. But it has never taken me 3 to 4 months to finish a title even with the ocd I sometimes get.

What else did you expect me to assume when you make insane claims like that jist make no sense in any shape or form? And what discussion is there to be had when someone speaks like this.

If call of duty is on game pass you telling me you would not finish the 5 hour campaign in 3 to 4 months? Lol. Come on dude. Even Elder Scrolls doesn't take 3 to 4 months.
 
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Flintty

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Gamers win, and now confirmed that devs win, and yet GAF still finds a way to be concerned about Gamepass. I’m sure MS are thrilled that you’re all so concerned about their profit margin 😂

Sounds like they’re quite flexible with their deals, which is good. And if it helps new or smaller devs get going then it’s a really good thing.
 

Chukhopops

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Why people use this faulty agrument over and over? Day 1 isnt essential if money is the reason to wait

Nobody have to pay full price for games.

Buying used or waiting for price drops = 15-30€ for most games within 6-12 months from launch. 30-40€ within 2-4 weeks from launch.

Using full price is lazy

15*12 = 180/year
180*6 = 1080/gen
You own none
+ Pay for games that arent in the gp

For 1000€ it is easy to get 30-100 games, More than enough for 1 gen, and you own them.

And average gamer buys well under 10 games/gen.

+ Forza+gears+halo are boring shit for many, so using them as mark of value = low

Gamepass fanboys always assume that all like The same few games. GP is good value to those that get all they want in it


Why pay for super expensive subscription and hope that game you like come in it, when same money equals into more than enough to play?

If you are smart and dont play full price
Let's assume this highly unlikely scenario of getting 100 games for €1,000 comes true. You still have less overall value than GP since as of today it has 170 games that are over 80 Metascore out of a total of 382.

For your other example, if you buy less than 10 games / gen (that's maybe 1.5 / year lol) then I agree you probably don't need to take a subscription...
 
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DaGwaphics

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A Magazine as a loss leader is a new one for me. I guess you could call them that since almost all the revenue was made from advertising with very little coming from the sale of the mag. Publishers would often pad circulation numbers to make ad placement appear more valuable. It's an odd choice. Definitely an analogy I've never heard before.
 
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*for 3 months, until the titles are cycled off Game Pass
Is that a confirmed thing? That's something I really dislike about services such as Netflix. "We got all this really great content! Or not, depending on when you plan to consume it."

Edit: I mean, I guess it would make sense. Nothing is forever. Just not something I even considered for some reason. Like, what if you had a game installed that got delisted? Would you get an error and it would force an uninstall the next time you tried to play?
 
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DaGwaphics

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Gamers win, and now confirmed that devs win, and yet GAF still finds a way to be concerned about Gamepass. I’m sure MS are thrilled that you’re all so concerned about their profit margin 😂

Sounds like they’re quite flexible with their deals, which is good. And if it helps new or smaller devs get going then it’s a really good thing.

Gaf, by and large, is very concerned about Xbox in general. It feels great as an Xbox fan to know there is a community that is always there to share these concerns with us.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Is that a confirmed thing? That's something I really dislike about services such as Netflix. "We got all this really great content! Or not, depending on when you plan to consume it."
it varies, depending on the game in question.

But if your issue is being forced to consoooome the content when it is convenient for the subscription service, Game Pass will not alleviate your concern.
 
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A Magazine as a loss leader is a new one for me. I guess you could call them that since almost all the revenue was made from advertising with very little coming from the sale of the mag. Publishers would often pad circulation numbers to make ad placement appear more valuable. It's an odd choice. Definitely an analogy I've never heard before.

It has the similarity that the magazine itself is sold at a loss; but the similarity just.. ends there.. and is not what a loss leader is lol

Some streaming services actually are closer to a traditional loss leader; like Amazon Prime Video, but in general, streaming services aren't either.

People just keep trying to conflate GamePass with all these other things when the comparisons are usually only partially accurate; and the markets being compared are also so hugely different that it becomes an exercise in futility.

Gaming subscription services are their own beasts; they are interesting to discuss but not when people aren't discussing them accurately.
 

FritzJ92

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Gamepass has 200 or so games... Not 3 games.

I get that, but more games on there are coming at a much later time in their cycle, MS isn't giving each dev 100s of millions to put their games on there for a few months. I really wish we knew how much they spent for RDR2 or GTA so we would have an idea what is the most they would pay a dev to put their game on there...
 
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it varies, depending on the game in question.

But if your issue is being forced to consoooome the content when it is convenient for the subscription service, Game Pass will not alleviate your concern.

Laaaaaaaaaame. Guess it'll just be one of those services where I'm frequently canceling and re-upping months down the road, depending on content availability.
 

Vae_Victis

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Let's assume this highly unlikely scenario of getting 100 games for €1,000 comes true. You still have less overall value than GP since as of today it has 170 games that are over 80 Metascore out of a total of 382.

For your other example, if you buy less than 10 games / gen (that's maybe 1.5 / year lol) then I agree you probably don't need to take a subscription...
I don't think simply comparing numbers means much. Since games in GamePass are quite varied in terms of genres, unless you like pretty much any kind of video games, it's fair to say that you simply won't be interested in a decent chunk of them.

The point is - and I personally agree - that if I had to spend around the same amount of money to either have:
1) 2 or 3 times as many games, but I didn't choose any of them, a lot will rotate in and out over time, and the second I cancel and stop spending I lose access to everything
2) half or a third of the games, but I chose every single one of them of them and I keep them no matter what

I'd honestly go with option 2 every time.

Even said that, truth is that for a lot of people time is as limited (often more limited than) money, as long as these are the kind of figures we are talking about and we assume gaming is one of your main hobbies. If you are given more games than what you could possibly play in a certain amount of time, the theoretical "value" of the package is irrelevant to you, because you won't be able to access a good portion of it either way.

The only scenario where the package model works better (for the publisher) than the traditional sale is one where the user spends less than what the nominal value of the package is, but still ends up spending more than what the practical value for them is. To put it simpler: if I can play 15 games a year and I'm buying my games individually, the number of games I'll buy in a year will be around 15 or a bit higher. If you offer me a package with 40 games in it for the price of 25 games, it will look like a great offer since the nominal value is so much higher than the price tag, but in the end I'm going to pay for 25 games and still play 15. That's also how and why people end up with titanic backlogs btw, because they see value in the individual purchase but fail to realize they are paying for stuff they won't be using.
 
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Laaaaaaaaaame. Guess it'll just be one of those services where I'm frequently canceling and re-upping months down the road, depending on content availability.
1st party games (studios owned by MS) so far have all been put on the service with no end date.. while there's no official policy strictly stated in the GamePass terms, that appears to be MS's practice for the forseeable future and a core part of their strategy.

3rd party games all come with a window of availability... and it's not like GWG / PS+ where the games are in your library forever, if you were playing a GamePass game on a Friday and it gets removed over the weekend, you'll have to buy the game to play it on Monday. They do offer a discount though for subcribers.
 
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Hitchyhero

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Lol at the amount of concern for MS....

Last week on that thread half of gaf were really excited at the prospect of a potential gamepass equivilent on PS+.

Please sort out your narrative. Is gamepass good or not. Do you want an equivilent or not. Why is PS Now great value at £8 a month but gamepass awful at £10.99 with newer games.

IF Sony wanted to move PS now into gamepass territory all they'd need to do to hit that price point is remove the tons of PS2 games and shovel ware they pay developers for and put that money to having newish games insteaf... Raise it by a couple of quid and there it is. Of course if Sony did that.... It's be the best thing since sliced bread.
 
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DaGwaphics

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It has the similarity that the magazine itself is sold at a loss; but the similarity just.. ends there.. and is not what a loss leader is lol

Some streaming services actually are closer to a traditional loss leader; like Amazon Prime Video, but in general, streaming services aren't either.

People just keep trying to conflate GamePass with all these other things when the comparisons are usually only partially accurate; and the markets being compared are also so hugely different that it becomes an exercise in futility.

Gaming subscription services are their own beasts; they are interesting to discuss but not when people aren't discussing them accurately.

True there are not perfect comparisons. On one hand you have the streaming startup (Netflix, etc.) that will use outside investors along with most incoming revenue to generate new content and advertise for new customers in a bid to reach a certain level of sustained revenue and profits. That kind of fits with GP, as it is clear at this point the focus is on growth and reaching a point where they can pay for content and sustain 1st party development while still turning a healthy profit. The comparisons end there though, because Netflix doesn't require that the end-user have an expensive device to utilize the service (console or PC) and game streaming is its own beast with much greater infrastructure costs than video or music streaming.
 

pasterpl

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Counterpoint: First party titles are never cycled off.

Counter-counterpoint: Where the hell are the new first party games for Series X?

all of these first party studios are going to release games at some point (sooon), I think it will start from q4 2021