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#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014

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O

Oidisco

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Joss Whedon @josswhedon · 20m 20 minutes ago
TERRORISM ISN'T BLOWING THINGS UP. IT'S USING THE FEAR OF VIOLENCE TO COW US AND CONTROL OUR ACTIONS.

I'm really unclear if he is calling GamerGate cowards or calling Anita a coward.
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He's calling the threats terrorism basically. He's tweeted his support for Anita a few times recently.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Joss Whedon @josswhedon · 20m 20 minutes ago
TERRORISM ISN'T BLOWING THINGS UP. IT'S USING THE FEAR OF VIOLENCE TO COW US AND CONTROL OUR ACTIONS.

I'm really unclear if he is calling GamerGate cowards or calling Anita a coward.
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I think he's calling the GamerGate a terrorist group now.

Really, they are hilariously turning themselves into that. Death threats, bomb threats. You can argue that they're just nerds with too much free time but fact is these things are taken very seriously.

Never join an anonymous movement on the internet, it doesn't work. You might be able to chime in that you did good when things work out your way but when it goes out of hand, you're partly responsible too.
 
M

Massive Duck. C.M.

Banned
jim-jam bongs said:
xf15VUi.png


By jove, he's cracked it
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WOW

W.O.W.
 
A

Adnor

Banned
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Joss Whedon @josswhedon · 20m 20 minutes ago
TERRORISM ISN'T BLOWING THINGS UP. IT'S USING THE FEAR OF VIOLENCE TO COW US AND CONTROL OUR ACTIONS.

I'm really unclear if he is calling GamerGate cowards or calling Anita a coward.
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He's calling GGs terrorists, not Anita a coward.
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Tripon said:
just casually linking to a video of his with the implication of "listen to this fucking thing" is in my opinion pretty damn callous to do.
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You know, and without trying to bring the main catalyst back up, I'm sorry if you felt that was my intent/tone, but it really wasn't.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Joss Whedon @josswhedon · 20m 20 minutes ago
TERRORISM ISN'T BLOWING THINGS UP. IT'S USING THE FEAR OF VIOLENCE TO COW US AND CONTROL OUR ACTIONS.

I'm really unclear if he is calling GamerGate cowards or calling Anita a coward.
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I'm not sure how you got that. He's reiterating that terrorism doesn't always mean just bombs. I would be surprised if he called Anita a coward if he so strongly agrees with her.
 
Pyccko

Pyccko

Member
Wow. The GNAA, huh? There's a name I haven't heard in many moons. These GG conspiracy dudes keep getting sillier and sillier.
 
F

FF Seraphim

Member
Labor said:
Well, you have "celebs" like Baldwin using uneducated people to further right-wing madness, and Seth Rogen.

So if nothing else it'll be clearer to normal people what's going on
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I don't consider Baldwin a big star compared to Rogen and Whedon. So it should be interesting to see how this develops.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
lord_of_flood said:
Mainly I was hoping GG would explore the relationship between media outlets and publishers through ad revenue and brand deals at some point, as that's where the problems really lie IMO. Of course it was never meant to be since the discussion got started and continued on for the wrong reasons, so shame on me for hoping it would happen.
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You can do that right now though. Just ask.

Here's all about brand deals from two Youtubers.

You want to know about ad revenue? For most sites, like mine, ads and editorial never meet. I believe our ads are handled by our parent company, Gamer Network, but I never see or hear anything about whoever handles them. When the ad takeovers (when the entire site is one big ad) pop up, I'm as surprised as you are.

As I said previously, that's how you end up with things like a full Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel ad takeover, while our review is a 2.5/5. We don't talk to them, they don't talk to us.

2lDPmbz.jpg


I believe most sites operate in the same manner, but that would be up to others to confirm.
 
N

NoCryingUntilTheEnd

Banned
MHWilliams said:
As I said previously, that's how you end up with things like a full Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel ad takeover, while our review is a 2.5/5. We don't talk to them, they don't talk to us.

I believe most sites operate in the same manner, but that would be up to others to confirm.
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I don't understand how people can be so bothered by this shit. I mean, this is no different from Newspapers having film reviews with advertisements for said films right next to the reviews.
 
D

Devolution

Member
NoCryingUntilTheEnd said:
I don't understand how people can be so bothered by this shit. I mean, this is no different from Newspapers having film reviews with advertisements for said films right next to the reviews.
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That requires having some perspective outside of gaming which it has been made obvious over the years that tons of gamers, well just don't.
 
G

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
MHWilliams said:
You can do that right now though. Just ask.

Here's all about brand deals from two Youtubers.

You want to know about ad revenue? For most sites, like mine, ads and editorial never meet. I believe our ads are handled by our parent company, Gamer Network, but I never see or hear anything about whoever handles them. When the ad takeovers (when the entire site is one big ad) pop up, I'm as surprised as you are.

As I said previously, that's how you end up with things like a full Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel ad takeover, while our review is a 2.5/5. We don't talk to them, they don't talk to us.

I believe most sites operate in the same manner, but that would be up to others to confirm.
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Just so you know, I'm so angry with your site's review, I'm contemplating emailing 2k games and demanding they stop advertising with your site or else I'll be forced to boycott Borderlands: TPS. Who's with me?

But seriously, wasn't that an issue at some site a couple years ago? The publisher got pissed at their low review next to the full page ads? I can't even remember what game it was now.
 
M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
NoCryingUntilTheEnd said:
I don't understand how people can be so bothered by this shit. I mean, this is no different from Newspapers having film reviews with advertisements for said films right next to the reviews.
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To be fair, there have been incidents such as the Gamespot Kane and Lynch one, where the advertisers put a lot of pressure on the site after they had 'take over ads' and still got a bad score, leading to an employee termination.

I think they fear that such pressure is the norm, and use that as a mental justification for why games they don't like still received good scores: they paid out. The reverse is also true, thinking great games got bad scores because they didn't pay out to the site.

This is why you see some GG folks pointing to stuff like swag as a form of 'quid pro quo', despite little evidence that the editors or reviewers are actually swayed by such things.
 
T

TumblingHippo

Member
Galactic Fork said:
Just so you know, I'm so angry with your site's review, I'm contemplating emailing 2k games and demanding they stop advertising with your site or else I'll be forced to boycott Borderlands: TPS. Who's with me?

But seriously, wasn't that an issue at some site a couple years ago? The publisher got pissed at their low review next to the full page ads? I can't even remember what game it was now.
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I don't know if you meant GerstmannGate but any excuse is a good one to post this again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUn5aJ6F3zg
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Galactic Fork said:
Just so you know, I'm so angry with your site's review, I'm contemplating emailing 2k games and demanding they stop advertising with your site or else I'll be forced to boycott Borderlands: TPS. Who's with me?

But seriously, wasn't that an issue at some site a couple years ago? The publisher got pissed at their low review next to the full page ads? I can't even remember what game it was now.
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7 years ago... led to a shitstorm within GameSpot with much of their editorial staff leaving. And people are concerned about integrity?

Wikipedia said:
As part of the new deal, the non-disparagement agreement between Gerstmann and CNET was nullified, allowing Gerstmann to openly talk about the reason why he was fired from GameSpot in 2007. Gerstmann was interviewed by GameSpot, appearing on the website for the first time in 4 years. Rather than simply being fired for his Kane & Lynch: Dead Men review, Gerstmann revealed that the firing was a result of a much longer stand-off between GameSpot's then-management division and its editorial staff. Gerstmann had been "called into a room" three times between October 23, 2007 and November 29, 2007. The first time concerned one of Gerstmann's reviewer's scoring of 7.5 for Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction - for which Sony Computer Entertainment America had threatened to pull advertising money. The second concerned Gerstmann's infamous 6.0 Kane & Lynch: Dead Men review - which provoked further threats by Eidos Interactive. On the third call, some time after the release of the review, Gerstmann was informed that his contract was terminated.[20]
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Video about this entire episode.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Mr_Antimatter said:
To be fair, there have been incidents such as the Gamespot Kane and Lynch one, where the advertisers put a lot of pressure on the site after they had 'take over ads' and still got a bad score, leading to an employee termination.

I think they fear that such pressure is the norm, and use that as a mental justification for why games they don't like still received good scores: they paid out. The reverse is also true, thinking great games got bad scores because they didn't pay out to the site.

This is why you see some GG folks pointing to stuff like swag as a form of 'quid pro quo', despite little evidence that the editors or reviewers are actually swayed by such things.
Click to expand...

The problem with that, the only people who have been in the games press who actually say their sites have been compromised are actually smaller bloggy sites, while those who work at places like IGN and such have always said, even after they leave, that they were never pressured about a review score.

Hell, even Jeff has said that the Kane & Lynch was largely a result of new management that hadn't dealt with the games press before and basically, acted like idiots because they overreacted to advertisers threatening to remove ads, despite I'm sure the major sites get those calls after every less than great review.
 
S

SmZA

Member
Galactic Fork said:
But seriously, wasn't that an issue at some site a couple years ago? The publisher got pissed at their low review next to the full page ads? I can't even remember what game it was now.
Click to expand...

Maybe you mean GerstmannGate? The only VideoGate worthy of being a _Gate?

It was Kane & Lynch

Edit: fuck you, faster posters.
I'll just add that GerstmannGate was heavily covered at the time BY FUCKING VIDEO GAME REPORTERS

WHO WERE ABLE TO DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB USING CONNECTIONS MADE WITH THE COMPANIES THEY REPORTED ON

JUST LIKE FUCKING WATERGATE ITSELF COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT A FRIENDSHIP FORGED YEARS BEFORE WITH A GUY IN THE FBI

YOU STUPID FUCKING MORONS

#STOPGAMERGATE FOR FUCK'S SAKE
 
M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
JesseEwiak said:
The problem with that, the only people who have been in the games press who actually say their sites have been compromised are actually smaller bloggy sites, while those who work at places like IGN and such have always said, even after they leave, that they were never pressured about a review score.

Hell, even Jeff has said that the Kane & Lynch was largely a result of new management that hadn't dealt with the games press before and basically, acted like idiots because they overreacted to advertisers threatening to remove ads, despite I'm sure the major sites get those calls after every less than great review.
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Pretty much, but it can be held as proof that it's possible, but not as likely as the 'lol, guess the check bounced' people would think.

Most sites probably say 'your angry about the score? Perhaps you should have made a better game then.' and leave it at that.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Mr_Antimatter said:
Pretty much, but it can be held as proof that it's possible, but not as likely as the 'lol, guess the check bounced' people would think.

Most sites probably say 'your angry about the score? Perhaps you should have made a better game then.' and leave it at that.
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I honestly think most publishers think that if they plaster the site with ads, people will ignore the review if it'd bad, which hell is possible, but I'm no genius of psychology. Sure, the occasional PR guy may blast out an email, at least in 2014, but at this point, I don't think Sega is that pissed over Alien : Isolation's 5.9 over at IGN or Activision is that upset over various low scores for Destiny.

Especially now they can just pay off Youtubers, who will be defended as not real journalists. :)
 
F

FF Seraphim

Member
SolidChamp said:
Has this been posted yet?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...h-after-school-shooting-threat-at-utah-state/

http://legionofleia.wordpress.com/2...aks-tell-me-again-how-gamergate-isnt-a-thing/

This is really messed up beyond my comprehension. I just don't understand it anymore.
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I wonder what impact this will have on the more "moderate" members of #GG. Will they stop and form something more constructive... or will they just keep saying its all false flags and blame others.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
Blyr said:
It actually took far, far longer than I'm comfortable with for this to sink into my thick skull. When you finally detach yourself from GG, and move away from the constant reinforcement the group provides that "no, we're doing the right thing! These are the bad guys, remember how bad they made you feel? We're doing the RIGHT THING!" you look and see holy shit.

This really IS a hate movement fueled by nutters. How did I get dragged into this?!

I'd implore GG supporters to distance themselves from the tag, and from the community, and take a very good look at everything that's going on, and all of the people who are being hurt. Are videogame websites, that we don't even visit, worth peoples LIVES being ruined? It's so easy to feel like it's all just a game, because we aren't the ones on the other end of the hatred. It's easy to point at someone and call "false flag!" because we aren't the ones who are sitting there, having people actually show up on our doorstep, saying "come out and plaaayy". The ends do NOT justify the means.

We don't NEED #GG to do good. There are a lot of people who want to achieve the same goals as us, but we are RADIOACTIVE until we move away from #GG because of what it represents. We can't start enacting change when the people who actually could start making these changes happen want nothing to do with us.
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Pretty much a cult now. Glad you stepped away from it.
 
Z

zeldablue

Member
SolidChamp said:
Has this been posted yet?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...h-after-school-shooting-threat-at-utah-state/

http://legionofleia.wordpress.com/2...aks-tell-me-again-how-gamergate-isnt-a-thing/

This is really messed up beyond my comprehension. I just don't understand it anymore.
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Nice.

I feel bad for GG-ers who really want this to be about something else. But the reality is, their campaign has made it easier and more acceptable to go bats*** insane over women doing stuff.

You can't disassociate from this. You can't watch people send out threats of complete terror while still rationally feeling as though it is justified. You just can't, regardless of how much you denounce or deny. It just doesn't work that way.
 
santeesioux

santeesioux

Member
Messofanego said:
Pretty much a cult now. Glad you stepped away from it.
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There's a dude on another forum i know that is into this stuff and posts about it , and it does feel like it is cultish at this point. He seems like a good guy, but how do you get them to step away from it and see it with clear eyes?
 
S

shink

Member
SolidChamp said:
Has this been posted yet?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...h-after-school-shooting-threat-at-utah-state/

http://legionofleia.wordpress.com/2...aks-tell-me-again-how-gamergate-isnt-a-thing/

This is really messed up beyond my comprehension. I just don't understand it anymore.
Click to expand...
I agree with this
While it’s true these threats aren’t being signed with a #GamerGate hashtag, we’re past the point of pretending that it’s a complete coincidence these threats have increased as #GamerGate members have gotten more fervent.
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It’s no longer possible to defend #GamerGate. For every member that unequivocally condemns these sorts of attacks against women, there’s another explaining why it’s completely unrelated from the movement, while yet another is cheering the harassers on. #GamerGate is an amalgam of a million different goals raging from the valid (better disclosure!) to the insane (death to feminists!), and it’s become bloated and grotesque with hate. Perhaps it’s too bad the sane members of the movement are caught in this tidal wave, but there’s no avoiding getting swept out to sea at this point.
Click to expand...
 
Z

zeldablue

Member
santeesioux said:
There's a dude on another forum i know that is into this stuff and posts about it , and it does feel like it is cultish at this point. He seems like a good guy, but how do you get them to step away from it and see it with clear eyes?
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They have to do so on their own accord. If you can separate him from the people who agree with him, you can help break the "hate feeling." The only thing to do after that is to try to get them to understand where their hatred is coming from. Ask them why they are angry at [blank] and what that person reminds them of.

If the person reminds you of a bully, oppressor, step-parent, ex-lover...then the source of the hatred is radiating from psychological displacement...which is a very natural defense mechanism to guard against personal insecurity or internalized anger.

It is extremely hard to pin-point where hatred comes from...and takes a lot of courage to look inward and pull out the source. So in general, this is a hard problem to fix!
 
A

Alex_Mexico

Member
Seth Rogen basically called Adam Baldwin a "fucking idiot" again after trying to start a conversation and Adam replying with an old article about some journalist saying a movie of Seth had some connection with a massacre. Seth just tweeted back saying he gave him too much credit thinking they'll be able to talk and "I refer to my initial tweet". The one that said Adam Baldwin was a fucking idiot.

I would've embedded it here but I can't, for the life of me, do it coherently.
 
santeesioux

santeesioux

Member
zeldablue said:
They have to do so on their own accord. If you can separate him from the people who agree with him, you can help break the "hate feeling."
Click to expand...

It's on gamefaqs, so that's probably not happening, unfortunately since there's a huge thread on it. It seems like a lot of people are starting to open their eyes though.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Alex_Mexico said:
Seth Rogen basically called Adam Baldwin a "fucking idiot" again after trying to start a conversation and Adam replying with an old article about some journalist saying a movie of Seth had some connection with a massacre. Seth just tweeted back saying he gave him too much credit thinking they'll be able to talk and "I refer to my initial tweet". The one that said Adam Baldwin was a fucking idiot.

I would've embedded it here but I can't, for the life of me, do it coherently.
Click to expand...

fDFcdN4.jpg

ygvUzsV.jpg
 
A

Alex_Mexico

Member
I think I saw a workaround to posting tweets here. (thanks Inorigo for posting those)

Back on topic: Adam Baldwin is a tool! My gosh I haven't lost the capacity for surprise!

Bz61ALVCIAAyzB9.jpg
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
I am wrestling with a severe bout of cynicism after reading tweets from gamergate people (directed at me and directed at nothing in particular) that all seem to echo the same response: you can't blame the entire movement for a few bad people.

Which, on its face, is an argument I have some sympathy for. But it's just not true in this case. In literally the best case scenario, the one that actually makes Gamergate look the best, the well-intentioned but easily-influenced members are elevating and lending their credibility to the harassers and assholes. They are a nation without an extradition treaty, preferring to pretend none of this is on them because acknowledging it would damage the point they want to make.

I'm not saying all of you are harassing women or consciously supporting harassment and death threats, but you're feeding in to a movement and culture that does. You're giving it your sign off and allowing them to use your name and existence to bolster the evil that they choose to do. The #NotYourShield campaign was amusing, because I don't think you guys realize it, but you are their shield.

When people say you can't blame the entire movement for the few bad people, it's like saying you can't blame the sword for what the tip of it did.
 
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