Support NeoGAF

[aspiegamer]

That Gamespot bit is pretty nauseating. They seem to just be ruined as a community as they let the #GG stuff run rampant in their comment sections for a long, long time. It's also a completely 100% bullshit PR copy-paste. They let the toxicity spread and literally all they can do now is say "yup, we're against bad things! Will the trolls please go away now?" In fairness there are some decent comments on that article but there are equally as many crying of censorship and deleted comments.

Unrelated thought:

How stupid is it that we suffix "-gate" on any scandal. Like, if Watergate happened today would we call it Watergategate? Burglarygate?

It's been this way (in American culture) for 15+ years. Originally people/media added it onto legitimate-tier scandals but in the typical race to the bottom of exceptionalism it quickly became used for everything. There's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. It's standard American lexicon and it's been almost globally accepted. If a legitimate scandal involves a proper noun then it doesn't get the -gate. After all, we do need root words for new tags! For example: 9/11 truthers, Bill Clinton's Whitewater, Benghazi, lack of WMD in Iraq, federal response to Hurricane Katrina. Those don't get "-gate'd".

Personally, I'm ready to move onto -Ghazi at any time! It adds a connotation that only insane people could believe such a thing since "-gate" was based on an actual historical event.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

What do you fear will happen to your (our!) hobby?

One world-ending conclusion is people find the term "gamer" abhorrent and publishers no longer budget games with an assumption of endless expansion. Stuff stops getting greenlit, most things move to mobile phones and facebook, and they make their money elsewhere because the Gamergate people may be enough to drive people out of the industry, but not enough to sustain it.

The most likely thing that will happen is a lot of good indie voices will be silenced and people who want to make games will decide there's no willing audience for their interesting ideas and choose not to face the harassment.

Look at that image I posted above of the woman who says she loves video games and is reconsidering going into the industry because she wouldn't be able to take the vitriol she'd get for being born a woman and loving video games. We're going to lose those voices. The longer this goes on without being stomped out, where people pretend silence is a valid answer to people who feed off not of attention but assumed approval, the more voices we'll lose. It's easy to say that you should ignore it and not let them get you down, but I guarantee just the small amount of shit I went through would have been a million times worse if I were a woman.

 

[CapNBritain]

Exactly. This can't be allowed to go on, and the apathy from people who don't care as long as AAA Game 25 still comes out is infuriating.

I've been lurking and have read the entire thread. I've only decided to post to ask what you think people like me, the silent lurkers, can do? Gamergate seems vile and if someone asks, I will tell them that and direct them to the amazing set of links others have posted, but I'm just not an "active" kind of person. I don't do social media. I don't really participate in any sort of discussion really. Heck, I joined Neogaf less than a year ago and it was my first forum. I'm not young either.

Do you think that the silence of people like me are part of the problem? Or do you really mean the people that are participating in the discussion either by choice or just because they have the power/authority to (like gaming "Celebs" and big sites) who try to remain silent are the ones who are complicit?

 

[L Thammy]

I've been lurking and have read the entire thread. I've only decided to post to ask what you think people like me, the silent lurkers, can do? Gamergate seems vile and if someone asks, I will tell them that and direct them to the amazing set of links others have posted, but I'm just not an "active" kind of person. I don't do social media. I don't really participate in any sort of discussion really. Heck, I joined Neogaf less than a year ago and it was my first forum. I'm not young either.

Do you think that the silence of people like me are part of the problem? Or do you really mean the people that are participating in the discussion either by choice or just because they have the power/authority to (like gaming "Celebs" and big sites) who try to remain silent are the ones who are complicit?

There's always the ripple effect. I don't do social media either, but I've talked to a few people friendlier than myself, introduced them to this. You don't have to take down Gamergate yourself.

 

[More_Badass]

One world-ending conclusion is people find the term "gamer" abhorrent and publishers no longer budget games with an assumption of endless expansion. Stuff stops getting greenlit, most things move to mobile phones and facebook, and they make their money elsewhere because the Gamergate people may be enough to drive people out of the industry, but not enough to sustain it.

The most likely thing that will happen is a lot of good indie voices will be silenced and people who want to make games will decide there's no willing audience for their interesting ideas and choose not to face the harassment.

Look at that image I posted above of the woman who says she loves video games and is reconsidering going into the industry because she wouldn't be able to take the vitriol she'd get for being born a woman and loving video games. We're going to lose those voices. The longer this goes on without being stomped out, where people pretend silence is a valid answer to people who feed off not of attention but assumed approval, the more voices we'll lose. It's easy to say that you should ignore it and not let them get you down, but I guarantee just the small amount of shit I went through would have been a million times worse if I were a woman.

I've seen numerous threads on r/gamedev and r/indiegaming asking if it's a good idea to get into game dev or how they were interested in making games but are now hesitant. It's very disheartening to read. Maybe they would have made the next Braid or Fez or Limbo...but now we'll never know

Gaming should be celebrated for its diversity and its creativity and how it can immerse people in a story and experience in ways that books and film never can. Not seen as that hobby brimming with hate and anger, not a hostile medium that scares people away

 

[Moon_frogger]

Do you think that the silence of people like me are part of the problem? Or do you really mean the people that are participating in the discussion either by choice or just because they have the power/authority to (like gaming "Celebs" and big sites) who try to remain silent are the ones who are complicit?

Yes, it's the people with an audience who are doing damage by staying silent. As for what you can do, it can be as simple as recognizing your own inherent prejudices and trying to do better, or being supportive of the woman and minorities you know in real life. If you see something unjust in the real world, don't let it go. Be supportive.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

The Sony flash sale is a wonderful little touch. Much respect.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I've been lurking and have read the entire thread. I've only decided to post to ask what you think people like me, the silent lurkers, can do? Gamergate seems vile and if someone asks, I will tell them that and direct them to the amazing set of links others have posted, but I'm just not an "active" kind of person. I don't do social media. I don't really participate in any sort of discussion really. Heck, I joined Neogaf less than a year ago and it was my first forum. I'm not young either.

Do you think that the silence of people like me are part of the problem? Or do you really mean the people that are participating in the discussion either by choice or just because they have the power/authority to (like gaming "Celebs" and big sites) who try to remain silent are the ones who are complicit?

By telling people how you feel, you're already not being silent. By saying how you feel and giving information to people you're doing a lot.

I'm talking about people repeatedly expressing exasperation with hearing about GG, bleating "don't feed the trolls," saying publishers should stay quiet, etc. This problem won't vanish and people need to step up.

 

[JackDT]

I've been lurking and have read the entire thread. I've only decided to post to ask what you think people like me, the silent lurkers, can do? Gamergate seems vile and if someone asks, I will tell them that and direct them to the amazing set of links others have posted, but I'm just not an "active" kind of person. I don't do social media. I don't really participate in any sort of discussion really. Heck, I joined Neogaf less than a year ago and it was my first forum. I'm not young either.

Do you think that the silence of people like me are part of the problem? Or do you really mean the people that are participating in the discussion either by choice or just because they have the power/authority to (like gaming "Celebs" and big sites) who try to remain silent are the ones who are complicit?

No way, I think that's silly. I don't really mind when 'gaming celebs' are silent either although it might annoy me. The only time I would levy a strong word like 'complicit' is when there's bad stuff going down in a community space like a forum on a site and people in charge of that space decide to do nothing.

 

[CapNBritain]

There's always the ripple effect. I don't do social media either, but I've talked to a few people friendlier than myself, introduced them to this. You don't have to take down Gamergate yourself.

That's true, but I'm very wary of being one of those people that pesters others with their causes. Regardless of the worthiness of the cause, it can definitely be seen as annoying. I also don't know any one that is a part of "gamer" culture, with the possible exception of a friend of a friend who works for some random MMO company. So am I supposed to just cold call up friends and inform them? It seems...weird. Also, definitely not the sort of thing I am comfortable with. It reminds me of when an old friend I hadn't heard from in years called me up to talk about Prop 8 (CA law against gay marriage). It was uncomfortable to say the least.

I will talk to my fiance about GamerGate, although that'll just be because I think it's fascinating (in a horrible way).

 

[Ri'Orius]

This sort of comment doesn't make any sense because I've never been particularly pro-gamergate or felt like they were anything more than a hate group striking at phantoms that they have been unable to properly identify.

This isn't about stances, it's not two people looking at the same thing and there being two entirely valid stances. There is one group that wants to stop being attacked and wants more inclusiveness while the other group doesn't and is willing to harass and threaten to get it done. This is not two sides of congress arguing about tort reform, it is one side arguing and the other side pointing a gun at them if they don't change their votes.

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

 

[SmZA]

.

 

[obonicus]

reposting my thoughts on the "silence isn't complicity" part of Jeff's article from the GB thread:

gamergate is a hate group with the sole purpose of chasing women out of the gaming industry.

That last isn't really true, though. I mean, gamergate is effectively about hate, no doubt. But the whole problem is that a whole bunch of people don't see it that way. A whole bunch of them -- probably a majority -- don't actually harass. They just enable the harassers by refusing to see their actions as their problems, and allowing the insane shitbags to hide among the (mostly misguided, pretty dumb) rest.

This is kind of how the cycle starts. Trouble-makers search for overbroad statements about GGers or gamers or whatever (how many times have I seen retweets of some random anti-GGer with like, 500 followers as evidence of general 'hate'), then spread it along to followers who then proceed to get personally offended, because they personally are, in fact, mostly innocent of what they're being accused. A reasonable person would understand the context of the statement and probably not let some random person's accusation get to them, but very few people are reasonable.

Don't get me wrong; I imagine that the 'leadership' of GG has a bunch of sociopaths. But the rank and file is probably just a bunch of feckless schmoes with really misguided personal values who do actually think what they're doing is important.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

If "as soon as" is "immediately upon inception" then... Yes.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

If people want to be taken seriously then they need to distance themselves from a label founded in hatred.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

So forgive me for being unhappy when someone says "Silence isn't complicity," because that is an excuse and a bad one, at that.

Forgive me that I was not exactly thrilled to participate in a discussion where the vocal opinions of "both groups" (I agree, there is should not be sides) are people that I don't exactly think have real good opinions or good grasp on how atually manage the causes they believe in it.

 

[CapNBritain]

By telling people how you feel, you're already not being silent. By saying how you feel and giving information to people you're doing a lot.

I'm talking about people repeatedly expressing exasperation with hearing about GG, bleating "don't feed the trolls," saying publishers should stay quiet, etc. This problem won't vanish and people need to step up.

Yes, there are people that want others to be quiet. That is an overt attempt at silencing criticism and definitely furthers Gamergate's aims. Whether people who advocate this silence, or the "both-sides" idea, know this or not is debatable and probably differs from person to person.

No way, I think that's silly. I don't really mind when 'gaming celebs' are silent either although it might annoy me. The only time I would levy a strong word like 'complicit' is when there's bad stuff going down in a community space like a forum on a site and people in charge of that space decide to do nothing.

Well, like my good pal Spider-Man always says, "With great power comes great responsibility." Seeing injustice and not speaking up against it when you have the power and influence to stop it does seem complicit in letting that injustice continue. It is hard to blame the game companies and sites for not stepping in, but the feeling that they should is probably valid. I was just wondering what responsibility, if any, the powerless have.

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

I feel that if you support GG, then you are identifying with them. They started as a misogynistic hate group and continue to appear as one, so if you continue to identify with them, don't be surprised if people aren't too happy with you. Are there overreactions on the anti-GG side? Sure. But the GG tag started bad and stayed bad. It literally has no definable goals beyond keeping "social justice" out of games.

If you think GG is about more than that, about real, concrete things that matter, then first, actually list them, and then second, distance yourself from a brand that is toxic.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

It is literally not about anything else.

The Gamergate discussion boards (reddit's kotakuinaction, /gg/, etc.) are full of topics celebrating that they bullied advertisers in to stopping support for editorials or news they don't like (while simultaneously pretending that they're deeply offended by Gamespot firing Jeff Gerstmann because advertising pressure forced him out). They paint their opponents as being anti-autism and pro-bullying (WHO THE FUCK IS PRO-BULLYING), their sole claim of journalistic malfeasance is not investigating whether Zoe Quinn slept her way to the top of something or another, even though it's been proven false repeatedly.

The heroes of Gamergate, Adam Baldwin and Milo Yanniopolous, are noted anti-feminists. Where's the big denunciation of them? If Gamergaters don't want that association, why aren't they telling Baldwin and Milo to fuck off and shut up every time they question the validity of a death threat? Why do they frequently refer to their opposition with standardized pejoratives like "SJWs" and employ terms like "False Flag?"

More to the point, what on earth are they asking for that justifies not shutting down and rebranding this because of the awful association instead of merely pretending it is not part of them? What is the phantom they are so desperate to strike at that they're willingly choosing to ignore the monsters in their own midst?

 

[bootski]

I've been lurking and have read the entire thread. I've only decided to post to ask what you think people like me, the silent lurkers, can do? Gamergate seems vile and if someone asks, I will tell them that and direct them to the amazing set of links others have posted, but I'm just not an "active" kind of person. I don't do social media. I don't really participate in any sort of discussion really. Heck, I joined Neogaf less than a year ago and it was my first forum. I'm not young either.

Do you think that the silence of people like me are part of the problem? Or do you really mean the people that are participating in the discussion either by choice or just because they have the power/authority to (like gaming "Celebs" and big sites) who try to remain silent are the ones who are complicit?

i wouldn't worry about it. if you don't feel comfortable speaking about an issue or participating in the discussion, then don't. i've never been a fan of the "stand with us or you're against us" type of mentality.

the sad truth is nothing can be said or done to make this stop. it will have to naturally peter out on it's own when the main culprits get bored and move on to some other platform. and even then it will only be an end to #gamergate, not to its roots. anita will get death threats and rape comments every single time she releases a video, forever. as upsetting as it is, the underlying hatred, anonymity and the knowledge that they'll (the abuser) will be talked about will make her a target in all her online endeavors.

 

[JackDT]

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

When the efforts, campaigns, and concerns of #GamerGate are not either completely untrue, or completely backwards and making things worse.

When it's not about non-existent 'reviews' of a free game. When it's not so obsessed with people it assigned them codenames. When it's not about pushing Jenn Frank and other writer of the industry because the talk about women. When it's not boycotting the sponsors the site I personally think is the most ethical in gaming journalism, Rock Paper Shotun, and telling those sponsors unless they pull their ads they won't buy their products. When the most lauded achievement of of the movement isn't using advertisers to break the wall between editorial and journalism. When it's not about pressuring Nintendo to blackball reviewers because had a different opinion on the game. And when it's not doing all this stuff while gleefully claiming to be about 'ethics in journalism'

 

[frequency]

I know many GG people aren't bad people and condemn the harassment as much as everyone else does.

But they know the image that GG has and the roots of the tag and the movement. They know the spokespeople of the movement.

Knowing that, if you still insist on fighting for GG, that tells me that you care more about the GG tag (including all the baggage) and your identity as a GGer than you do about the actual issues of ethics, inclusivity, kindness, or whatever other thing you say you're fighting for.

All those things can be fought for outside of the GG tag. If you stubbornly cling to GG despite the damage it has done and is continuing to do, then you should really take a moment to consider your priorities.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I can not take all this COLLUSION

What the fuck is the context oh my god. What is going on in those clips.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

This, I find fascinating

https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/523265945855598593

Less the tweet itself, but the comments (or whatever those things are called on twitter)
It's like "They mixed up the images, GamerGate reaffirmed!"
To be clear here: they didn't lie or did anything objectionable, they just labeled it wrong. GamerGate indeed.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

What the fuck is the context oh my god. What is going on in those clips.

The second is from the PAX Royal Rumble. The first is from a segment at the Giant Bomb panel promoting said Rumble.

 

[BlastProcessing]

What the fuck is the context oh my god. What is going on in those clips.

At PAX there is a N64 Royal rumble. It's the best kind of big, dumb, clusterfuck.

 

[Punchy4486]

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

Occupy Wall Street was written off as soon as lazy assholes used it as an excuse for Woodstock 2.0

The Tea Party was written off when the craziest, most paranoid, least educated, and racist element had the loudest voice. They've practically destroyed the Republican Party at large.

Yes you are judged by your worst element. Especially when your worst element has accomplished more for their cause than you have for your noble one.

Legitimate question: do you think the anti-GG movement or people like me that just think this group is toxic actually don't care about ethics in games journalism? Or do you think maybe the movement is ineffective and there are other priorities at the moment? Most of your "enemies" would gladly tackle ethics, but there are other issues at hand right now.

 

[Corpekata]

https://medium.com/@poopsockholmes/the-bad-apples-of-gamergate-ba39f8fd485

Not sure if posted. A long, detailed list of several of the assholes in GG, many of which have thousands of followers and Gaters eating out of the palm of their hand. Sad thing is it isn't even that complete.

 

[CapNBritain]

i wouldn't worry about it. if you don't feel comfortable speaking about an issue or participating in the discussion, then don't. i've never been a fan of the "stand with us or you're against us" type of mentality.

the sad truth is nothing can be said or done to make this stop. it will have to naturally peter out on it's own when the main culprits get bored and move on to some other platform. and even then it will only be an end to #gamergate, not to its roots. anita will get death threats and rape comments every single time she releases a video, forever. as upsetting as it is, the underlying hatred, anonymity and the knowledge that they'll (the abuser) will be talked about will make her a target in all her online endeavors.

Yes, you're probably right in that this wildfire will just have to burn out on its own. On the plus side, even if the majority of people don't weigh in, I bet that there are many like me who have had their eyes opened to the current climate of the industry and the culture.

I have to go, but I wanted to say one more thing in response to

GGers want to stop being attacked, too...

and others that feel the same way.

First, do the research. Learn what GamerGate is all about, then come back and see if you feel the same way.

And if you still do, can I ask why? From what I've read, the best thing you can say about GamerGate is that they want ethics in game journalism. How is silencing people, game journalists, bloggers, whatever, achieving this? Aren't you trying to censor their opinions? And don't try to claim that "they" are doing the same thing. People are expressing their opinions, that is all. GamerGate has a proven history of harassment over people expressing their opinions. Think about that.

And if you are against attacks, then why are you with GamerGate? Or claiming that GamerGate has a "side"? Their side is being angry at being "attacked" and at people having opinions. That is it. You don't need a hashtag for that.

I have to begin the long commute home now but I will return when I get home. I'm hoping/dreading the pages I'll have to catch up on.

 

[endless dave]

Lack of perspective

or maybe they actually know him and what his sense of humor is like

or maybe they they it's legit funny

or maybe they agree with the sentiment

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

I say this as nicely as possible, but why the fuck is it so important that you be involved with GamerGate?

 

[sasliquid]

https://medium.com/@poopsockholmes/the-bad-apples-of-gamergate-ba39f8fd485

Not sure if posted. A long, detailed list of several of the assholes in GG, many of which have thousands of followers and Gaters eating out of the palm of their hand.

I was just about to. Now Gaters who claim there is no link to harassment and GG will claim this is all one big coincidence that their biggest supports happen to the scum of the earth (not evening mentioning milo who I feel I've expressed my negative view of enough)

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

At this point continuing to rock the GG label while knowing how it started is like wearing a Klan robe to talk about civil rights

or maybe they actually know him and what his sense of humor is like

or maybe they they it's legit funny

or maybe they agree with the sentiment

I get that you thought it was funny

It was still ill-timed, thoughtless, and foolish. You can't be anti-GG and be on the same childish shit

 

[Nanashrew]

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

Couple pages ago I linked a storify from Todd in The Shadows and among the tweets he even offered them a chance to do some good PR. When GGers tried to show they were against harassment through giving donation to victims and groups, Todd suggested to give some to Anita, Zoe or Brianna, to show they don't hate women like the media thinks and that they are truly against any and all kinds of harassment. They were victims by people in their own movement. Well, Todd, was greeted with endless fuck yous and "they deserve it", "not all GGers" or "we don't condone it". GGers don't want to separate themselves from the misogynists and the harassers. If there are any good people in it, they have done literally nothing to draw a line in the sand to push those people out of their movement. It's all hollow words. They have no more chances left to prove any redeeming qualities of their movement, the mainstream media has now reported on it and the world now knows how hate filled it really is.

You can read it all here: https://storify.com/ShadowTodd/why-i-do-not-believe-that-gamergate-actually-conde

 

[tonysidaway]

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

The prominent members of the movement would have to recognise and condemn the damage done to the reputation of all gamers by the movement's origins and it's earlier behaviour. False accusations against developers and journalists. Wild-eyed conspiracy theories about feminists or SJWs secretly trying to take over gaming. Disgusting attacks on prominent women in gaming. After that, would there be much left of Gamergate? I don't know, because that kind of behaviour is real and it's what the loudest voices in Gamergate have been doing. That's your public face, Gamergate.

If they're drowning out some legitimate voice, we'll only hear it when they shut up.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

At this point continuing to rock the GG label while knowing how it started is like wearing a Klan robe to talk about civil rights

"But they are just video games!"

It amuses me how GG fights for the validity of games as an art form by telling others to stop taking them so seriously.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

https://medium.com/@poopsockholmes/the-bad-apples-of-gamergate-ba39f8fd485

Not sure if posted. A long, detailed list of several of the assholes in GG, many of which have thousands of followers and Gaters eating out of the palm of their hand. Sad thing is it isn't even that complete.

>Bendilin

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft

 

[sasliquid]

Even if we give GG the generosity of believing it is all about ethics does anyone know what they would do? The people I have 'discussed' it with seem to think putting economic pressure via forcing advertisers to withdraw from websites they don't like is the mission, for "ethics".

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Even if we give GG the generosity of believing it is all about ethics does anyone know what they would do? The people I have 'discussed' it with seem to think putting economic pressure via forcing advertisers to withdraw from websites they don't like is the mission, for "ethics".

Nobody knows what the fabled mission is. You'll have dozens of people saying there is a mission, GG is about ethics, but at the end of the day, they won't be able to point towards any manifesto or article at all.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

At this point continuing to rock the GG label while knowing how it started is like wearing a Klan robe to talk about civil rights



I get that you thought it was funny

It was still ill-timed, thoughtless, and foolish. You can't be anti-GG and be on the same childish shit

"But they are just video games!"

It amuses me how GG fights for the validity of games as an art form by telling others to stop taking them so seriously.

Fighting generalizations with generalizations while decrying generalizations....

 

[Corpekata]

http://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=856632

The Sarkeesian Effect Guys thought it was a good idea to consider including the "Beta up Anita" video game as a bonus feature.

They wised up, but it's kind of hilarious they even thought about it. These are the type of people that are billing themselves in that Fox News "fair and balanced" way, and are have raised 9k a month on Patreon for their documentary.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Fighting generalizations with generalizations while decrying generalizations....

Do me a favor and don't quote me anymore with your intellectually bankrupt bullshit

Thanks

 

[Green Biker Dude]

It is literally not about anything else.

The Gamergate discussion boards (reddit's kotakuinaction, /gg/, etc.) are full of topics celebrating that they bullied advertisers in to stopping support for editorials or news they don't like (while simultaneously pretending that they're deeply offended by Gamespot firing Jeff Gerstmann because advertising pressure forced him out). They paint their opponents as being anti-autism and pro-bullying (WHO THE FUCK IS PRO-BULLYING), their sole claim of journalistic malfeasance is not investigating whether Zoe Quinn slept her way to the top of something or another, even though it's been proven false repeatedly.

The heroes of Gamergate, Adam Baldwin and Milo Yanniopolous, are noted anti-feminists. Where's the big denunciation of them? If Gamergaters don't want that association, why aren't they telling Baldwin and Milo to fuck off and shut up every time they question the validity of a death threat? Why do they frequently refer to their opposition with standardized pejoratives like "SJWs" and employ terms like "False Flag?"

More to the point, what on earth are they asking for that justifies not shutting down and rebranding this because of the awful association instead of merely pretending it is not part of them? What is the phantom they are so desperate to strike at that they're willingly choosing to ignore the monsters in their own midst?

1. you're talking about a group of people there. it's like saying "gaf loves x game" and then "gaf hates x game". also, i don't think "bullying" is the appropriate word for them forcing/coercing advertisers to stop supporting x or y site. besides, what they're doing might be unethical from the perspective of it being a hate fueled movement, but that doesn't mean the attitude itself is wrong ("vote with your wallet")

2. there is a pretty big jump between being "anti feminist" and supporting death threats. i don't know what either of those people believe in, so they might just support both things, but you're lumping two completely different things together

3. "rebranding" won't change anything. anyone can "join" this. it's organized on public forums that require minimal investment to register (when they do). suppose it's renamed. then what? what's stopping the people who send death threats to join the next movement thing? it's going to be the exact same thing, except weaker. unless the advice of renaming it is attempting to just to do that. then it makes sense. but i don't think the people behind it will follow through with that

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Fighting generalizations with generalizations while decrying generalizations....

You desire so much to not be seen as an extremist that you're unable to offer anything that isn't a milquetoast, boring platitude that makes no sense even in an immediate context.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Do me a favor and don't quote me anymore with your intellectually bankrupt bullshit

Thanks

Do me a favor, please think of what I just said... Really, not even trying to fight, just think about it. You see my past posts and I'm not exactly a GG apologist.

Just think it for a second. Is not even against your core believes...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

Seriously suggesting? No one is suggesting. The movement has unequivocally been written off as hateful and misogynistic, because that is the only lasting impression it has managed to leave. You can blame it on "some nutcases," but when your movement is a mass of anonymous people of unknown numbers, the nutcases attacking public people come to represent your group as a whole. They are just as much a part of GG as anyone who doesn't issue death threats or indulge in harassment and they stick out more because of their vile actions.

 

[Firestorm]

GamerGate isn't just a shitty movement because of the harassment. You can't hide behind "ethics" when most of what is talked about isn't actual journalistic ethics but the fact that outlets talk about social issues as it relates to video games. Every time social issues are discussed, people identifying with GamerGate speak out against it.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Fighting generalizations with generalizations while decrying generalizations....

But that's literally the party line.

They want women and journalists to stop trying to make video games inclusive because they are video games.

This is in almost every single piece of GG-related literature out there.

You cannot have the main bullet in your Save Video Games Gun be "video games are not meant to be taken seriously".

 

[MYeager]

GGers want to stop being attacked, too. The media, both mainstream and gaming-specific, paints them as hateful misogynists. GGers are feeling defensive and shat upon.

Most GGers aren't complicit in the anti-Sarkeesian and Quinn harassment. Most aren't even silent about it. Every big name I can think of who supports the movement (Tycho and TB) has explicitly condemned it. But because some angry individuals send death threats, a lot of the community is happy to latch onto it as evidence that every GGer is a hateful misogynist.

What will it take to convince people that GG isn't about death threats and harassment? Or are you seriously suggesting that a movement can be written off as soon as some nutcases use it as an excuse to be hateful?

Is being a GamerGater more than some hashtag movement? Unless there's more to being a GGer than adding a hashtag that's linked to shitty things those folks can still have a discussion about gaming ethics without bringing all the GG baggage into it by simply not using the hashtag. It's not an identity or anything.

 

[sasliquid]

Nobody knows what the fabled mission is. You'll have dozens of people saying there is a mission, GG is about ethics, but at the end of the day, they won't be able to point towards any manifesto or article at all.

I think one of the worst aspects of gamergate is it's organisation or lack thereof. There is no official page of members so no one can be held accountable, no defining manifesto or set of ideals, no idea of how many people there actually are.

I guess it might exist on 8chan but I think that would speak for itself

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I think one of the worst aspects of gamergate is it's organisation or lack thereof. There is no official page of members so no one can be held accountable, no defining manifesto or set of ideals, no idea of how many people there actually are.

I guess it might exist on 8chan but I think that would speak for itself

I'm sure that's exactly how the core folks want it. They want the benefits of being a noisy group with none of the responsibility. All of the vile shit that happens can then be blamed individuals that do not represent the group (no matter that there is no leadership to decide who gets to represent the group). All the while, not a single positive thing has come out of the group--just hate. There are no positive examples.