nkarafo
Member
"When you think you are oppressed, special treatment feels like equality"
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Genderfield V: The saga continues
- Thread starter Thiagosc777
- Start date
They are doing this by painting a total different picture on WW2. Imagine this is the first time outside of the classroom you come into contact with it. And they tell you how racist french soldiers were. I how they oppressed african soldiers how they used hem to be cannonfooder etc. what would you think?
The represent the oppressed minorities as superheroes who do not even kill their enemies even though they deserved it. while they watch their comarades getting killed after retreating etc. Also they made the scandinavian troops who actually acomplished the mission look useless and idiots while the oppressed minority alone desroyed the dark water mission.
I am sorry but if you do this. You should at least have a Warning that everything is utter bullshit and that the current events and porraits of these people are based on our political agenda and nothing of this is true warning. Again I am not against inclusion but I am against bullshit propaganda that villainizes and makes everyone else stupid
PS: They also should offer a formal and public apology to all the people who died and people who lost their loved onces in these missions. Because if my ancestor was part of these missions I wouldbe fucking upset.
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ROMhack
Member
Anybody taking a video game as reality has a problem regardless of which ideological position they subscribe to.
nkarafo
Member
I can see that but a WW2 game where real people fought isn't the best place for this IMO.
Additionally, a game series with an established fan base also isn't the best thing to change for this purpose.
Since these people didn't care about the series in the first place and the Battlefield ip meant nothing to them, why not create a new ip for them? Something new where they won't have to revise a real event so much and they won't alienate the current fanbase?
This is why people criticize DICE, not because they want to be inclusive.
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KonradLaw
Member
No, go buy Post Script (if you like slow tactical games) or Day of Infamy (if you want something faster). Both are great WWII shooters that put a lot of focus on authencity.
KonradLaw
Member
Would you say the same about a videogame inspired by 12 Years a Slave where you could choose for the slave you're playing to be white?
The problem DICE had is they want to eat their cake and keep it too. it's fine to change history just for fun. Look at AC Odyssey, it's bassicaly multicutural and equality utopia that has very little to do with ancient Greece. But nobody really cares because you fight cyclop there and the game is filled with shitload of science fiction tech. But DICE tries to pretend it's still making authentic games, while increasing diversity, which just doesn't work. They say they want to showcase unknown stories from WWII and they do it by erasing the real heroes.
They should have went full out and making a new Battlefield Heroes. Make a clearly fantastical version of WWII, like Wolfenstein and you can have all the diversity and inclusion you want.
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SonGoku
Member
Whos presentation is this? Y I K E SI try not to follow "conspiracies" too much but I've been seeing lately actual SJW agendas being pushed on game developers.
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nkarafo
Member
It's a game based on a real events and scenarios. And they revised them to cater to people who didn't care about them before in the first place It's a bit disingenuous.
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Every war in history has had real people fighting in it. Are you gonna tell developers to not have creative freedom when they make a game that contains a war?
This is also a very odd take. You are saying that the new God of War was not a good thing to do because they changed it a lot and it had an already established fanbase?
How do you know these people didn't care for the BF IP until BFV?
Are you seriously saying that you want them to make a new IP instead of taking their time to change their appereance in-game that takes you less than 1 min?
And? Because real people have fought in it, developers can't do what they want? Gues there's a ton of games you shouldn't play then. I can assure you than a ton of things that happened in the Black Ops games didn't really happen.[/QUOTE]
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Mochilador
Member
Damn, so they picked some real life events and made changes to fit their political agenda.
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nkarafo
Member
They can do whatever the heck they want, it's a free world. Players can also critisize them for what they do as well. Doesn't mean there's something wrong with them.
You said they did this to include more people in the franchise.
Which means they didn't care before so they made changes to draw them in.
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But you are saying they shouldn't. Whish is limiting the developers creative freedom.
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I agree with you here mostly. Had they just said “hey, we are going to break realism here a bit and let people play as whatever character they want online” and dropped it at that I wouldn’t have even noticed. The whole “don’t buy our game” and follow up since then has just been embarrassing.
nkarafo
Member
Personally, i didn't like the change in tone and style, no.
I'm saying my opinion, they are doing the wrong thing, especially as a business. I'm not saying there should be a law or something that should prevent them.
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I thought people liked honesty. How more honest can you be than tell people not to buy their product if they don't like what they see?
Then it's a good thing you have the option not to buy it and millions of people liked the new GoW, it probably generated millions of more fans because they changed the formula.
Just because you don't like a change made into a video game doesn't mean you are right.
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They rewriting the history and not in a a women safes everyone way but by insulting and accusing people who actually fought the war. They portray the French soldiers as utterly useless and racist while the oppressed black minority not only endures this but also is acting on a way more superior moral level by even sparing the enemies who try to flee from the fight even though they just saw their own comarades brutally murdered
JimmyJones
Banned
ROMhack
Member
I know what you mean but I don't agree with putting it under the microscope just because it embodies political correctness. The whole game is extremely disingenuous to begin with and I don't believe that Hollywoodisation of war is any worse than attempts to conform to a left-wing ideological position through the scenarios therein.
The problem I take is with the consumers. EA are obviously doing this for profit so it's up to people to be more sceptical about the practices of big businesses.
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Dismissing large amounts of people right away and telling them not to buy your product is a terrible way to handle it and just really bad customer service.
Dismissing in what way?
radewagon
Member
Consider this:
For a white heterosexual male, how often do they get the opportunity to see themselves represented in their media? Right, almost all the time. Now, it is probably the case that such individuals see nothing particularly special or privileged in being able to to do so. And of course they don't. Why should they? That's just the way it's always been. But now that's starting to change. The gaming industry (and more) is starting to actually want to appeal to individuals that don't match the original "default" option of white heterosexual male. They want to branch out and address the existence of other types of protagonists.
Now, when you throw out the reverse quote to the the one I posted, it may sound nice, but there's no real meat to it. Your quote is based on two huge misconceptions. The first is that non-whites and women are not actually oppressed. When it comes to game protagonists, characters of color and women are still hugely underrepresented. It's not "back of the bus" oppression, but it is still oppression. The second misconception is that non-whites and women are now getting special treatment. When companies try and balance out racial/gender representation in the industry that isn't special treatment. That's an equalizing force. That's just good ol' equal treatment.
However, to many, it feels like special treatment because those people are used to having the privilege of being the single most represented type of person in the media they consume.
Look, I'm a minority. I almost NEVER get to play as a character that represents my culture. Is it the end of the world? No. I can enjoy a game regardless of who the protagonist is. That said, whenever I DO get to play a game with a Mexican protagonist, it's quite a special feeling. It's also one I don't get very often. It's a feeling that white heterosexual males get to experience so often it's not even special to them anymore. But it does matter to them. It matters so much that they are feeling attacked when they see the prospect of losing that privilege.
nkarafo
Member
Doesn't mean i'm wrong either.
Same with BF5, just because you don't like any of the changes doesn't mean you are a racist/sexist or "uneducated" like DICE thinks.
Where has DICE explicitly said that's what they think?
Ulysses 31
Member
I don't see the words racist and sexist there.
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nkarafo
Member
I understand what you are saying 100%.
And yeah, having more representation in games is a good thing.
But this is different because it's history revisionism. Now if the reversed thing happened, say, revising history that's important to black peoples and make a game about white people being enslaved by black men, it would be banned immediately. That's why it's special treatment. In order to "balance" things like you say, the minority gets away with stuff that, if reversed, would be deemed "problematic" at the least.
I don't think that's the only way to balance things.
"or uneducated like Dice thinks"
The line before the "or" wasn't referring to them specifically. I didn't express that 100% with my not so perfect English.
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Trying to argue that people do nto want battlefield 5 because there are women in it is basically saying that they are sexists. Same goes for black people.
Read my comment again:
I used the word "explicitly" for a reason, words have meanings.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/explicitly
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/explicitly
The problem with that quote is that it is vague and can be interpreted in many ways. So no, DICE didn't explicitly say people who disagree with their change is racist and sexist, it's the way you guys interpreted that statement.
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ROMhack
Member
I see what you're saying here. Yeah, it's basically accepted that people can change history but only from the perspective of the side deemed more oppressed. It's been that way for a while.
For instance, I just played Wolfenstein: The New Order which is a nazi-revenge story wherein you play as the plucky resistance crew against the mega evil nazis. I was actually quite struck by the game's insistence that I treat its main cast very seriously (I didn't) whereas I spend the rest of the game shooting at absolute nobodies who I'm not supposed to think about. Sure the main villains are horrible bad dudes but the game doesn't do anything to make the foot soldiers you kill throughout seem human. In fact, it very much dehumanises them. They're evil because they're evil.
I don't wish to take the game too seriously but that's what it does. It's very generic in how it approaches the subject (and all the more fun for it!). By contrast, if it's the allied position, every single character will be a 'good guy'. It seems like Battlefield V just wants to reflect a modern day viewpoint on that by throwing in minority characters who can also be the 'good guys'. You rarely get the chance to play as, or shoot at, bad guys who are minority figures as that's deemed negative representation. Games do indeed go out of their way to make sure you don't. Is that equality?
Basically, the problem with these games is that you don't get questioned. They become a mirror reflecting back your views which is indeed absolutely nothing like war which is brutal and horrible and really dehumanising (I suspect). Instead, the dramatic elements are supposed to excite the player which is what I meant by 'Hollywoodisation' and overall why I can't take them very seriously.
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Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
They are just commercially exploiting the controversy they generated themselves.
PR wise its brilliant. But on a more human level its rather revolting.
Not everything has to be made into a PR instrument, and i am rather disappointed DICE went with that (I reckon by no small help from Daddy EA).
So bad that such a fine dev studio gets infected by the shameless nature of its parent (EA).
You can tell, i don't like EA's antics. So this does not land well with me.
PR wise its brilliant. But on a more human level its rather revolting.
Not everything has to be made into a PR instrument, and i am rather disappointed DICE went with that (I reckon by no small help from Daddy EA).
So bad that such a fine dev studio gets infected by the shameless nature of its parent (EA).
You can tell, i don't like EA's antics. So this does not land well with me.
ROMhack
Member
This. It's very self-serving.
petran79
Banned
Euromarxist indoctrination to be exact. No WW2 game goes into detail concerning the various civil war conflicts between communists and royalists and nationalists during WW2. Greece was a blatant example, British troops bombarding Athens for weeks, even on Sundays, to fight Communist rebels in 1944.
My grandpa was in a British prison camp in the Middle East with many other Communists for fear of rebellion.
If they want to make it everybody's battlefield, I'm perfectly fine with that. I like fragging all races, creeds, and genders.
But you don't get to rewrite history in the process, dipshits.
Maybe, in WWIII, we'll all get to die, hand in hand, in a glorious, ecstatic explosion of rainbow-soaked annihilation. But the past, my dear douchebags, is what it was.
Love it or hate it, but learn from it. Then Leave. It. The. Fuck. Alone.
They can rewrite history all they want. It’s a video game. And a fake ass Michael bay interpretation of WW2 anyways
It’s not like an entertainment product you drop 60 bucks for to have fun and shoot people is respectful to the men and women who served in the war anyways
So I say fuck it, go all in and do what you want
If you want to be hyper realistic then go for it, If not, the don’t
All this fake ass outrage on behalf of people you don’t even know
And “SJW”s are the snowflakes?
Airbus Jr
Banned
No..no...no...that's not how it works here buddy...
Reyben
Member
If they want to make it everybody's battlefield, I'm perfectly fine with that. I like fragging all races, creeds, and genders.
But you don't get to rewrite history in the process, dipshits.
Maybe, in WWIII, we'll all get to die, hand in hand, in a glorious, ecstatic explosion of rainbow-soaked annihilation. But the past, my dear douchebags, is what it was.
Love it or hate it, but learn from it. Then Leave. It. The. Fuck. Alone.
Are you going to shoot up your high school?
LegendOfKage
Member
Non-whites and women aren't oppressed, except for the times when they are. Women not appearing as the sole heroes of a real life Norwegian WWII mission that actually consisted of only men isn't one of those times.
I'm willing to understand the argument "Yeah, why not, it's just multiplayer. We all know there weren't real life soldiers in WWII, except for very few exceptions in certain armies. It's not a big deal to add women and minorities to multiplayer, so people can play as who they want." COD WWII made the same argument, and some people didn't like it, but the developers never ran with the "you just can't stand the idea of having women in any of your video games you toxic manchild" strawman bullshit, so people didn't really care all that much. It's inaccurate, but I can see where having the option to play as a different race or gender in multiplayer might be more important for some people than historical accuracy.
At the same time, I'm hoping you can understand how many people feel there's no good reason to take a REAL event where a group of men risked their lives to save countless other lives, actual people who are actual heroes, and replace them with a lone mother and daughter. To write actual heroes out of their own story. I can't understand how some people can't sympathize with those who feel it's repulsive to portray the French as considerably more racist than they actually were in the 1940s. So many people will play that campaign not realizing that the French military wasn't segregated, and not realizing that some french commanders were killed for protecting black soldiers serving under them.
If you wanted to include women in the story of a WWII game, there are ways that could have been accomplished that would have been completely historically accurate, such as that famous Russian sniper, and some other examples. You could have also explained that WWII is one of the MAIN reasons for early feminism regarding employment in the first place. All the men were gone, and women stepped up in a massive way to keep America going. Then the men came home, and a lot of women wanted to continue working. I think that's a far more important story to tell than the absurd fabrications that Dice put into their game. And I hope you can understand why I would feel that way.
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Virex
Banned
ResetEra is this way ==>
apocaliptic
Member
The game is not good. Compared to other battlefield games this is the worst. No team play, and shotting someone looks like dots in the distance. Apparently, you haven't played Battlefiled bad company 2 or Battlefield 3. Go watch some youtube videos to see the difference on shotting mechanics, guns, vehicle, maps and team play. There is nothing of that in this game.
Strife In a Teacup
Member
This is the part that gets me time and time again. Like why do these sorts of things that result in loss of profits? I mean, the sole reason they exist is to make money at the end of the day. Hence things like DLC and microtransactions.
Might as well just make a F2P game with no cash shop.
Woah, neogaf is full of SJW as well...
Just answer this question : why WOLFENSTEIN is not criticized?
Because it clearly admits to be a fantasy/sci-fi based retcon of a real life event.
Battlefield V on the other hand is a brainwashing device that inspires guilt and self loathe in white, non impaired, straight men.
Women, Queer and people of color fought during WW2, but they were a small minority and no, they didn't won the war alone, they still needed a majority of white, straight, non impaired men to win. Something that this game deliberately tries to cover, hide, deny and rewrite.
Trump won the elections, just get over it and stop with the brainwashing. And no, video games are not political, they don't have to be politically correct, and there is nothing wrong with white, straight males without physical handicaps.
PS: to all the brainwashing deniers, moralizing holier-than-thou people around here, try to ask Evilore what some of the old mods actively tried to do here by pushing their political views with strength and banning whoever disagreed with them.
Battlefield V is the video game equivalent of those mods, who are now happy trigger on REra. Freedom of speech my ass...
Just answer this question : why WOLFENSTEIN is not criticized?
Because it clearly admits to be a fantasy/sci-fi based retcon of a real life event.
Battlefield V on the other hand is a brainwashing device that inspires guilt and self loathe in white, non impaired, straight men.
Women, Queer and people of color fought during WW2, but they were a small minority and no, they didn't won the war alone, they still needed a majority of white, straight, non impaired men to win. Something that this game deliberately tries to cover, hide, deny and rewrite.
Trump won the elections, just get over it and stop with the brainwashing. And no, video games are not political, they don't have to be politically correct, and there is nothing wrong with white, straight males without physical handicaps.
PS: to all the brainwashing deniers, moralizing holier-than-thou people around here, try to ask Evilore what some of the old mods actively tried to do here by pushing their political views with strength and banning whoever disagreed with them.
Battlefield V is the video game equivalent of those mods, who are now happy trigger on REra. Freedom of speech my ass...
Fbh
Member
I get what you are saying but IMO being underrepresented in the media of a country where the vast majority of people are white and straight, particularly in a piece of media depicting an actual historical event where the vast majority of people fighting and dying on the frontlines were white (probably straight) males isn't the same as being Oppressed (adjective: subject to harsh and authoritarian treatment.)
I don't think whites have any privilege in that way (not saying they don't in other contexts) they aren't getting any special treatment.
Would you say mexican media is oppressive then? because I'm pretty sure that one has mostly ethnically mexican people in it. I'm personally of European decent but born and raised in Chile and I hardly see myself represented in local media (be it books, movies, TV shows) but I've never felt oppressed
JordanN
Banned
But are video games oppressing people? I don't think it is.
Japanese people are not white. By all definitions, they are technically a "minority" yet would you say they are represented in gaming or that they have "privilege"?
What is stopping other countries around the world from doing the same?
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Rewriting history is always wrong.
You are confusing, or don't know the difference between, historical accuracy and history rewriting.
Historical accuracy is how credible is a portrayal of a real life story.
Save private Ryan, for instance, while fictional for the most part, is still based on real events. It is not a 1:1 recreation of the historic event, but at least gets close and recognize it and gives actual context to the differences from real history.
Rewriting history to include foreign, out of time elements, ignoring the bigger context of the historical event behind them is wrong and unjustifiable for several reasons, the same way as some moron denies the Holocaust.
This game denies that most of the war has been fought by white, non handicapped straight men who lost their life or psycho-physical well being in order to give us a Nazi-free Europe.
Sorry, everyone who fought WW2 contributed to victory. Everyone means everyone, not just minorities to push your political agenda.
Night.Ninja
Banned
It’s a game I don’t get why people get so worked up.