I'm not God of War fan, but this idea that all games must share similar mechanics is silly. I've played the demos for the last two games in the series and the camera seemed not only fine, but actually a bit refreshing, since most games this generation seemed to be either a free-roam-camera-third-person-shooter or an FPS.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Going forward God of War needs to start using free roam camera
- Thread starter Endo Punk
- Start date
I love moments like that.
Miles Quaritch
Member
open world, metroid-vania, side quests, etc. Needs to happen.
I'm playing this series for the first time and while GOW 1 is still fun, the camera is pretty wonky in a lot of spots in that game. Especially any time you have to backtrack and run straight at a camera.
GOW 2 is much better and there's only been a few spots where the camera's really annoyed me.
GOW 2 is much better and there's only been a few spots where the camera's really annoyed me.
Phat Michael
Banned
it's not always perfect. I like to control my camera.
Castlevania: LoS already does this except open world, I hate how people think open world = better, If GoW was open world we wouldn't have all those epic scenes.
They are one of the best in the Industry because they make fun games with great graphics and epic moments.Then why are SSM put on a pedestal when the only reason they can pull off these visuals and such is down to the fixed camera?Dare I say SSM are actually quite overrated
Doesn't Metroidvania, with its ability-determined checkpoints and progress-gates, conflict directly with "open world"? I don't know anyone who would call Super Metroid, Guacamelee, or SotN open world.
It's not meaningfully Metroidvania unfortunately. One of the game's big issues.
rosaceadude2112
Member
are there even any more cool monsters or characters in greek mythology to maim? i watched the beginning of ascension on youtube and there was just this lame bug monster
Then why are SSM put on a pedestal when the only reason they can pull off these visuals and such is down to the fixed camera?Dare I say SSM are actually quite overrated
yeah...the only reason.
SniperHunter
Banned
i agree, time for something new
True, but atleast they tried lol.
BruiserBear
Banned
The game wouldn't be a fun with a free roam camera. It wouldn't be God of War anymore.
Just create a new franchise if you want to change it that much.
Just create a new franchise if you want to change it that much.
BrainZEROX
Member
Using a fixed camera saves some computing power but it still requires talent to put these saved resources to good use so, no, Sony Santa Monica is not overrated. At least in the graphic department. In the gameplay and game design one though... It speaks a lot when a downloadable game such as Guacamelee trounces God of War in the creativity and game design department ending up as being the better game even though it is not technically as advanced.Then why are SSM put on a pedestal when the only reason they can pull off these visuals and such is down to the fixed camera?Dare I say SSM are actually quite overrated
BadAss2961
Member
There's a wide overhead view of mostly every combat area. Camera zooms in during brutal kills and other moments of flash.
Exploring is also designed around the camera. It pans in the direction to advance the game. Go in opposite directions and look for suspicious openings to find secrets.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Perhaps open world was the wrong term. Hub based, similar to that of Arkham Asylum with more of the world opening up as you progress.
I just imagined GOW with a free roam camera allowing you to fully marvel in his awesome character model but with moments that pull the camera back to show off the landscapes, and it blew my mind. And it involved Aztec lore.
All over my face.
Then why are SSM put on a pedestal when the only reason they can pull off these visuals and such is down to the fixed camera?Dare I say SSM are actually quite overrated
Joke post? A fixed camera doesn't innately give you the ability to make the best graphics to come out of a console game this gen.
BadAss2961
Member
Nah... All they should do is start a new IP and come back to God of War a few years later.
FlashFlooder
Member
Egyptian would be better. But yea, I agree.
There were hints about travellers from the 'Land of the Pharaoh' in GoW:A so you never know. Kratos' design would actually fit into that mythology.
Also there's one more open end from GoW trilogy: Athena.
I agree with the folks saying that it's integral to the gameplay. The fights require quick reflexes. If there was information hidden off-camera and you had to take the time to pan around and see what was going on it would change that dynamic completely.
That being said, I recently started a second playthrough of GOWIII, and I totally agree with you OP. But it feels like a presentation issue and not a mechanical one. The set pieces keep getting bigger and more shocking, and the camera choreography more convoluted, and it still feels tired at this point. I'd be happy to see the series move in a new direction. For example: there's a clear division between areas where you fight stuff and areas where you just walk around/platform. You could give the player camera control during the exploration parts and switch to a 'battle mode' during the others. It's the awkward shot panning and transitions during exploration that look the worst imo.
That being said, I recently started a second playthrough of GOWIII, and I totally agree with you OP. But it feels like a presentation issue and not a mechanical one. The set pieces keep getting bigger and more shocking, and the camera choreography more convoluted, and it still feels tired at this point. I'd be happy to see the series move in a new direction. For example: there's a clear division between areas where you fight stuff and areas where you just walk around/platform. You could give the player camera control during the exploration parts and switch to a 'battle mode' during the others. It's the awkward shot panning and transitions during exploration that look the worst imo.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Camera has never been a real issue with me. The fact that they all feel the same with the chains in the center role is my biggest complaint.
Barkley's Justice
Member
Let's just leave God of War in the PS2 era...
A good poster
Banned
wat. No. Not every game has to be this.
Gow camera discussion thread "sony should retire gow"
SSM Mastering ps3 thread "sony should retire gow "
seriously what is the point of this. if you dont like gow and have nothing to add to the topic why even bother opening or commenting in the thread
Heart of Black
Member
They definitely need better camera implementation at Santa Monica, but I think that's the least of their concerns... the games have been stagnant for years.
To be honest I'd much prefer the idea of a fixed camera based title that might occasionally throw the odd fucked up viewing angle at me like I get in the God of War games, Dante's Inferno, Devil May Cry 4 et al, over a camera I'm having to readjust constantly like I am in every Ninja Gaiden game, Bayonetta and the like.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the games that have a free camera if they're good, but I've always found it to be the case that the fixed camera approach is considerably less intrusive to the experience that spin-o-vision right stick mapped fuckery ends up as too often.
Recently playing through GoW Ascension and Metal Gear Rising has shown me that this is still very much the case even today, just as it was last gen.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the games that have a free camera if they're good, but I've always found it to be the case that the fixed camera approach is considerably less intrusive to the experience that spin-o-vision right stick mapped fuckery ends up as too often.
Recently playing through GoW Ascension and Metal Gear Rising has shown me that this is still very much the case even today, just as it was last gen.
Rainbow In The Dark
Member
I agree that the camera is horribly implemented at certain times and makes some battles in the hardest difficulties a headache, but I like that they use the right stick to roll. I wonder if they could use the touchpad in the PS4's controller to control the camera.
HueyFreeman
Banned
This. Free camera control is not an "evolution" of 3d games. It's just an approach.
feint_ruled
Member
If anything, the right stick camera is the archaic system. It results from devs admitting they can't do auto-cameras well and just throwing in the towel and making the user do it.
staticneuron
Member
The camera is fine. The game is designed around the premise that the camera is fixed so there won't be any unexpected surprises happening.
I simply think the GOW franchise needs a break for a gen or two.
I simply think the GOW franchise needs a break for a gen or two.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Needs to be more open and cohesive like a Zelda game. Isn't this what Jaffe concluded as well?
James Sawyer Ford
Member
God of War needs to be a completely new IP with similar franchise core philosophies - namely visceral combat, puzzles, and epic set pieces.
But to me "God of War" is a story about Kratos, and that saga needs to end.
They need to create something new, that is open world, more like Zelda with dungeons and epic boss encounters, but with absolutely brutal combat...
exactly
but at that point I wouldn't call it God of War -- needs to be a new IP, with new lore, and characters. Too much baggage in GoW right now.
But to me "God of War" is a story about Kratos, and that saga needs to end.
They need to create something new, that is open world, more like Zelda with dungeons and epic boss encounters, but with absolutely brutal combat...
exactly
but at that point I wouldn't call it God of War -- needs to be a new IP, with new lore, and characters. Too much baggage in GoW right now.
Samir Sedlar
Member
Agree, many many many times I wanted to look around, or see something from a different angel, but couldn't cause the camera was fixed, I get how amazing the game looks with a fixed camera, but they should be able to do such things without fixed cameras as well.
Give Darksiders & Darksiders II a try.
Give Darksiders & Darksiders II a try.
Unknown One
Member
Leave the game formula alone. No open world, no free camera. The camera system works great. I don't have to worry about moving the camera when it does it automatically at a optimal point.
It DOES feel as if phrases like that are sometimes used just for things that happened to exist in a prior generation. Or more than 5 years ago. Especially as I could easily argue stationary cameras were archaic design then if we wanted to go that route, with the PS2 it very much became a conscious design decision rather than something you just had to do.
Anyways, full camera control was a huge benefit in MGS3 because it was a reasonably open stealth game meaning you need more control surveying your surroundings within at least the realms of what you'd plausibly see, and to a degree the game wasn't even really that well designed for a stationary camera. God of War rarely has these kinds of issues, and the one part it does is not only generally regarded as the worst part of the original game (climbing out of the underworld) but was addressed to a degree by going with 4:3 (which would probably make the HD version a bitch if I ever got to that point.) I actually felt more that I wished more JRPGs had free roaming cameras in the PS2 days, they're not exactly action intensive games and it could've made exploration much more engaging, but I guess a lot of them were still operating off familiarity with pre-rendered backgrounds and FFX kind of led by example unfortunately.
Using "archaic" to describe things we don't like is archaic.
It started in 2005 or so.
I don't think the next GoW really needs to exist, but if it does camera doesn't really need to change. Reboot with a new protagonist and pantheon instead? Tighten up the play to be all style, zero QTEs?
UntoldDreams
Member
GAME DESIGNER: Its like God of War with an open world and Free Camera!
PUBLISHER: Sounds fishy. Isn't the point of this game the combat fluidity and not having to fuss with cameras to get the "big view" of everything? Even the checkpoints are plentiful.
GAME DESIGNER: No way man! Check it out with the free roam camera I can ZOOM into detail into everything and zoom out like google maps! Just think of Uncharted!
PUBLISHER: Uncharted is a gun game though with iron sights to shoot through.... Awww hell let's do it. I like poorly thought out methodology in my game stable.
===1 year later===
SUB 15-20 FPS framerate due to massive set piece, giant characters, and GOW particle effects with open world and fully free roam camera.
People get lost in open world.
Reviews drop to 2/10 due to poor execution.
PUBLISHER: Sounds fishy. Isn't the point of this game the combat fluidity and not having to fuss with cameras to get the "big view" of everything? Even the checkpoints are plentiful.
GAME DESIGNER: No way man! Check it out with the free roam camera I can ZOOM into detail into everything and zoom out like google maps! Just think of Uncharted!
PUBLISHER: Uncharted is a gun game though with iron sights to shoot through.... Awww hell let's do it. I like poorly thought out methodology in my game stable.
===1 year later===
SUB 15-20 FPS framerate due to massive set piece, giant characters, and GOW particle effects with open world and fully free roam camera.
People get lost in open world.
Reviews drop to 2/10 due to poor execution.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Talk about yourself.
Green Wiggly
Member
God of War may be stale from a game play perspective, but the fixed camera is used to great effect displaying awesome set pieces. I've also never had a problem with the camera in a God of War game, which is more than I can say of 90% of games that use a moving camera.
One of the other reasons God of War would find it difficult to get rid of the fixed camera is that it's integral to the way the game handles hidden chests, feathers, gorgon eyes etc. Basically, go in the opposite direction from where the camera is showing you to go, and you'll get prizes.
I don't think getting rid of the camera would improve the games much. I think they're victim not only to franchise fatigue but also the fact that every third person action game plays a bit like it now, except God of War is now the one taking inspiration from elsewhere (the new traversal mechanics in Ascension, for instance, ripped straight out of every Uncharted-a-like we've seen over the past few years). The novelty has worn off, and even an impressive set piece is still basically the same thing we've seen in all the other GoW games.
I don't think getting rid of the camera would improve the games much. I think they're victim not only to franchise fatigue but also the fact that every third person action game plays a bit like it now, except God of War is now the one taking inspiration from elsewhere (the new traversal mechanics in Ascension, for instance, ripped straight out of every Uncharted-a-like we've seen over the past few years). The novelty has worn off, and even an impressive set piece is still basically the same thing we've seen in all the other GoW games.
Similar threads
- Poll