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[DD]

What i miss from racing games is a structured career life that gives you the sense that you've made progress in the game.

That's my biggest issue with CM games on this generation (except for F1). Unlocking new cars doesn't make me feel progressing in the carrer. Instead of a ton of two~three races champaionships, I'd rather race on one f* long point's based championship, fighting for something BIG, not just some forgettable two race championship that I'll forget as soon as I finish it. Grid and Dirt are shallow games, they lack tracks, they lack a deep structure.

I DO believe in Codemasters technical expertise. But while other less talented studios are fighting for a 9+ games, Codemasters seems satisfied with an 8 on Metacritics, while they CAN be bigger than anyone in the world. I DO love these guys, but they don't seem to love me anymore.

If I was looking for casual 15 minute entertainment time, I would not be looking for a racing game.

 

[Spectral Glider]

On a more serious note, here's the producer's "fuck you" to all gamers who want the cockpit view in this game.

telemetry data we can obtain from our servers

Ha ha, yeah right. I wonder if his "telemetry data" can tell that I'm giving him the finger right now.

 

[isamu]

Even though I personally never used it in GRID 1, no cockpit view is a shitty design decision by CM. First showdown doesn't have it now this. Pathetic. I predict pCARS will sell BUCKETLOADS now! Hundreds of posters on CM's own forums are bringing out the pitchforks and rightfully so.

Plus no Derby mode is just dumb.

 

[Stop It]

Ooh, GRID 2. yey!

...

Wait, No cockpit mode? No cockpit mode, no dice Codemasters.

Stop being lazy, otherwise you'll end up with games that play themselves because 95% of people like to be told they are awesome without doing much. Oh wait, you've mentioned re-using the handling model from GRID? well, that's probably close enough then.

 

[isamu]

Ooh, GRID 2. yey!

...

Wait, No cockpit mode? No cockpit mode, no dice Codemasters.

Stop being lazy, otherwise you'll end up with games that play themselves because 95% of people like to be told they are awesome without doing much. Oh wait, you've mentioned re-using the handling model from GRID? well, that's probably close enough then.

egg zackly

 

[Diablohead]

Even though I personally never used it in GRID 1, no cockpit view is a shitty design decision by CM. First showdown doesn't have it now this. Pathetic. I predict pCARS will sell BUCKETLOADS now! Hundreds of posters on CM's own forums are bringing out the pitchforks and rightfully so.

Plus no Derby mode is just dumb.

Well derby does seem better fit into showdown IMO, but for a real asphalt racing game no cockpit is a crime.

 

[amar212]

I am at my phone at the moment so it is hard to elaborate, but it comes down to this:

From the ages of the first TOCA and CMR games Codemasters were the studio that actually innovated the genre with fully imerssive cockpit views, damage models, sounds, in-race penalties and interactive real-time obstacles on tracks. First TOCA still have options and details that many racers of today lack.

It was 1998. It was the first PlayStation. It was 2MB of RAM for everything.

It is 2012. Almost 15 years of technological advancement.

Sad, very sad times has come for the driving genre.

 

[Jamesways]

I am at my phone at the moment so it is hard to elaborate, but it comes down to this:

From the ages of the first TOCA and CMR games Codemasters were the studio that actually innovated the genre with fully imerssive cockpit views, damage models, sounds, in-race penalties and interactive real-time obstacles on tracks. First TOCA still have options and details that many racers of today lack.

It was 1998. It was the first PlayStation. It was 2MB of RAM for everything.

It is 2012. Almost 15 years of technological advancement.

Sad, very sad times has come for the driving genre.

But... but... here's 1000 cars!

 

[Jamesways]

Getting ready for that super immersive Chase Cam.

 

[Cuban Legend]

This no-cockpit idea is bad, and Codemasters should feel bad!

I hope GAF curses this game to hell and no one buys it. I'm sorry to say this because I love CM.

 

[isamu]

Getting ready for that super immersive Chase Cam.

That's hilarious.

Loore, one of the community reps at CM, keeps telling us that there's still so many great things they haven't revealed yet for GRID 2. Says that what they have in store makes up for the lack of cockpit view, and that by the time they finish showing us everything about the game, the lack of a cockpit view will be long forgotten.

I'd LOVE to see this magic trick! Because I can't think of anything in the game that would make up for this poor design decision.

 

[Skyzard]

Exactly, unless it turns into Blur.... I will still want a cockpit when I'm playing the game.

I can understand most people skipping cockpit in MP just for the advantages of outside view but it isn't anywhere near as fun in single player.

Way too heavy a restriction in a racing game these days, shame it had to happen with Grid. I'll still be curious about what they come up with but meh.

 

[The Mana Legend]

Not gonna lie, I hate games where you have 1 million cars in your garage. I miss games where you start with a shit clunker, barely make it through the first season, and then manage your little money to improve. So sick of not having any connection or care for the cars I drive.

 

[DD]

Not gonna lie, I hate games where you have 1 million cars in your garage. I miss games where you start with a shit clunker, barely make it through the first season, and then manage your little money to improve. So sick of not having any connection or care for the cars I drive.

This makes two of us.

 

[Cuban Legend]

That's hilarious.

I'd LOVE to see this magic trick! Because I can't think of anything in the game that would make up for this poor design decision.

Hilarious indeed because:

It's just an illusion, not a magic trick.

 

[Goldrusher]

New screens of DiRT3 GRID2:

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_grid_2_back_with_new_images-13295_en.html

 

[DD]

No internal view to get a stronger piss filter. Looks like a fair exchange.

 

[Neuromancer]

Getting ready for that super immersive Chase Cam.

I'm currently playing Dirt Showdown and the lack of cockpit view plus other terrible decisions (respawning in the demolition derbies, wtf) I am starting to think Codemasters has lost the plot.

 

[gtmax]

I am at my phone at the moment so it is hard to elaborate, but it comes down to this:

From the ages of the first TOCA and CMR games Codemasters were the studio that actually innovated the genre with fully imerssive cockpit views, damage models, sounds, in-race penalties and interactive real-time obstacles on tracks. First TOCA still have options and details that many racers of today lack.

It was 1998. It was the first PlayStation. It was 2MB of RAM for everything.

It is 2012. Almost 15 years of technological advancement.

Sad, very sad times has come for the driving genre.

Look here man, how many racing games have you actually finished in this generation? Me? None that i can think of - and i have everything that is relevant on consoles.

Part of it is that these games are neverending, but mostly because there isn't a tangible goal to reach. I love Forza 4 but have no interest in reaching level 40 if it means grinding through race series i have no interest in doing. Let's not even mention the biggest grinder of all games...

But you know what? I finished TOCA1 and 2. Whether i liked them or didn't doesn't matter - it's the fact that i was able to complete a championship in them that says everything about their games back then. TOCA was such a fucking labor of love. The way every millimeter of adjustment on the analog was mirrored on the game. The way you could completely destroy your car by getting in an accident. Doing the cop maneuver either by accident or on purpose. The sound of that little exhaust as flames were coming out of it. TOCA 2 only lacked behind Gran Turismo 2 in marketing.

I'd say that like many companies, people come and go and they only live on in name. I'm too lazy to check credits to see who's still there from TOCA days. But lets not forget Jarret and LaBonte Stock Car Racing - or TOCA3. Some suit must've done research back in those days and concluded that the game didn't sell so well in Americuh because gamers couldn't relate to the nondescript TOCA (Touring Car) monicker. After all, what would a kid from the South Bronx like me know about a little group of small countries on the other side of the world.

And how has it been since, CM? Driving model was dumbed down in TOCA3, then a little more in TOCA Race Driver and now we have GRID with all the lights, city stages, shiny special effects, 30fps, now no cockpit views and an identity crisis.

Right then.

 

[Jamesways]

I'm currently playing Dirt Showdown and the lack of cockpit view plus other terrible decisions (respawning in the demolition derbies, wtf) I am starting to think Codemasters has lost the plot.

Like the lack of any licensed race cars in Grid 2? I wasn't aware they did exotic and muscle drift races on a regular basis at Spa in real life. But it'll be SUPER AWESOME in Grid 2!!!! So much better than racing actual race cars on it.

smh

 

[DonasaurusRex]

if only codemaster would make a test drive Unlimited type of game , open world not just racing seasons. Because whoever did TDU2 had a good idea but seems like they just quit the game and said close enough. Shame even with a lot of missing car manufacturers the game in essence was the perfect racing game for me, open world + exploration + racing cups , codemaster clearly has the chops to make this work.

 

[NHale]

I'm currently playing Dirt Showdown and the lack of cockpit view plus other terrible decisions (respawning in the demolition derbies, wtf) I am starting to think Codemasters has lost the plot.

If you want the confirmation just watch the F1 2012 "Improvements" Dev Diary. They spend 1/3rd of the "Improvements" video talking about the menus. It's like they don't even care anymore.

 

[mrklaw]

New screens of DiRT3 GRID2:

where is the GRID?

 

[NullPointer]

if only codemaster would make a test drive Unlimited type of game , open world not just racing seasons. Because whoever did TDU2 had a good idea but seems like they just quit the game and said close enough. Shame even with a lot of missing car manufacturers the game in essence was the perfect racing game for me, open world + exploration + racing cups , codemaster clearly has the chops to make this work.

There's always Forza Horizon.

 

[amar212]

If you want the confirmation just watch the F1 2012 "Improvements" Dev Diary. They spend 1/3rd of the "Improvements" video talking about the menus. It's like they don't even care anymore.

I wouldn't agree with this.

Current state of their F1 engine is phenomenal. It is engine I would like to see in some new theoretical "TOCA" game because it allows for almost flawless execution of actual race in any class (regarding tarmac races) and no other game at this point on consoles have it all in one working package.

From my head:

- 23 AI cars
- Safety Car as 24th AI vehicle on-track with fully programmed routines
- 12 different liveries/car models on track
- animated suspensions/drivers/vehicles (DRS wing for example)
- animated pits/pre-race/post-race sequences
- vehicle damage model with animated pit-repairs and AI-repair in-race routines
- tyre puncture routine/mechanical damage routines
- full-fledged real-time weather engine with animated visual surface properties (racing line on wet/drying process especially)
- progressive changes of grip track surfaces for dry/wet weather
- F1 2012 introduces real-time skyboxes/clouds and variable lighting (day/night is clearly possible with YasMarina as example while Singapore looks stunning at night)
- AI routines for KERS/DRS
- AI routines for special situations (damages/punctures/safety car deployment/qualification..)
- in-race technician audio
- real-time race-objective management (tyre changes/number of laps driven/in-race situation for AI drivers)
- race penalties and routines for mandatory pit-stops etc.
- all above 100% executable in online multiplayer
- possibility to run online co-op championship via online
- multiplayer modes with matchmaking and custom races (including online championship)
- decent FFB 900-wheel support
- stunning audio (it is stunning, despite it would benefit for some more spatial-sound in 5.1 but maybe F1 2012 do the final "touch" regarding proper levels for surround speakers)
- etc.

Now imagine all of the above introduced is some full-fledged "TOCA-like" game. It would be a dream title.

Codemasters clearly have both knowledge and technology to release a stunning racing title. They should just stop listening to focus-groups and mantras regarding "serious racing games are dead" and be brave enough to bite that bullet.

 

[Dilly]

^

Was pretty much hoping for GRID2 to have those features, but then it got announced.

 

[Router]

Came in here expecting good news

 

[Polishin8r]

sucks cuz gonna have to wait for full game edition since codemasters jumped on blc (bulshit downloading content) bandwagon

 

[DD]

Gameplay video: http://youtu.be/coHfGT8Qsk4

EDIT: another one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbfuMR978GA&feature=plcp

 

[VVV Mars VG]

Had a quick go myself today and made this brief gameplay video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOcxWdLRklQ

 

[saladine1]

Had a quick go myself today and made this brief gameplay video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOcxWdLRklQ

Mate, have the sounds improved over the first game?
The original had pretty weak audio imo, so hopefully they have fixed it up for number 2..

 

[Diablohead]

Had a quick go myself today and made this brief gameplay video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOcxWdLRklQ

Now we know where the cockpit budget went, on the triple screen and feedback seat coding

Going by dirt 3 experience that track being about 1 minute 30 long is most likely an entire section of point to point, I won't expect tracks to be that much longer in the final game.

 

[shinnn]

Gamersyde
http://gamersyde.com/news_gameplay_videos_of_grid_2-13418_en.html

 

[UnluckyKate]

Gameplay video: http://youtu.be/coHfGT8Qsk4

EDIT: another one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbfuMR978GA&feature=plcp

chicago looks like the first one

Calif coast looks awesome as NFS hot pursuit

If only I could ditch the 16 packed racers in closes squares angles urban races for beautiful vistas and long fast slopes

 

[zephervack]

Now we know where the cockpit budget went, on the triple screen and feedback seat coding

Going by dirt 3 experience that track being about 1 minute 30 long is most likely an entire section of point to point, I won't expect tracks to be that much longer in the final game.

This comes free with their engines, all their games support it natively since Dirt 2 I think, and for Dirt 1, someone over as wsgf.org wrote a 15 minute plug in to make it work. No excuse for the lack of cockpit view. I do realize that you are being sarcastic though

 

[Neuromancer]

Now we know where the cockpit budget went, on the triple screen and feedback seat coding

Going by dirt 3 experience that track being about 1 minute 30 long is most likely an entire section of point to point, I won't expect tracks to be that much longer in the final game.

Yeah apparently the latest version of the Ego engine can't handle really large environments for long tracks (like in Dirt 1 even). What a lame engine, I hope they ditch it or overhaul it in time for the next Dirt/rally game.

 

[DD]

Yeah apparently the latest version of the Ego engine can't handle really large environments for long tracks (like in Dirt 1 even). What a lame engine, I hope they ditch it or overhaul it in time for the next Dirt/rally game.

I highly doubt it.

 

[Stallion Free]

Yeah apparently the latest version of the Ego engine can't handle really large environments for long tracks (like in Dirt 1 even). What a lame engine, I hope they ditch it or overhaul it in time for the next Dirt/rally game.

That explains why no track was ever more than like 4 minutes long. I wanted Pike's Peak again.

 

[Neuromancer]

I highly doubt it.

Hmm pretty sure I remember a developer or a community manager saying that on their official forums a while back, unfortunately they wiped out all the archives and started over during the summer. I'll have to do some digging.

It makes sense though considering how short the tracks in 2 and 3 were compared to 1. It can't all boil down to 'they just didn't feel like it this time'.

 

[Diablohead]

I remember reading about track size limits so I would say it's true, and also stupid that they have something like that in there to begin with, you know making point to point racing games over the years.

 

[DD]

Hmm pretty sure I remember a developer or a community manager saying that on their official forums a while back, unfortunately they wiped out all the archives and started over during the summer. I'll have to do some digging.

It makes sense though considering how short the tracks in 2 and 3 were compared to 1. It can't all boil down to 'they just didn't feel like it this time'.

No, no, I do believe in your information (that they have said that). What I doubt is if that's true. xD

 

[zephervack]

That explains so much actually, I remember the super long stages in Dirt 1, they were sweet.

 

[Neuromancer]

No, no, I do believe in your information (that they have said that). What I doubt is if that's true. xD

Oh OK haha you may be right.

The two latest Operation Flashpoint games used the Ego engine for pretty big environments but they were very bland, graphically speaking. It could just be that Codemasters is focused more on making the trackside enviroment look really good, rather than have longer stages.

 

[DD]

Oh OK haha you may be right.

The two latest Operation Flashpoint games used the Ego engine for pretty big environments but they were very bland, graphically speaking. It could just be that Codemasters is focused more on making the trackside enviroment look really good, rather than have longer stages.

Every (decent) racing game needs to deal with streaming, which means that the engine deletes the track sections that you've already have let behind, while loading whats about to come. No game renders the entire map at once, they just load what needs to be loaded, what needs to be on the screen or what needs to apear really fast, like cockpit view when you chose to, as an exaple. A top producer like Codemasters knows it well and certainly knows how to do it. Of course there's a limit, especially when you work with high quality graphics like Codemasters do. But I highly doubt that what we saw on Dirt and Grid is their limit. I believe they can do better than that, but if you take a look in how poor the Codemasters games are in therms of content (cars *and specially tracks*), you can see that what is limitin' them is the budget, not the engine.

We can use Forza series as an example: Forza renders a 2 kilometer track the same way it renders a 20 Km one. It's the same trees and textures here and there over and over. They are even using the same engine (modified, of course) for an open world Forza...

They (Codemasters) took away the cockpit view, wich clears a lot of memory space for them to work with. Let's wait and see if they'll come up with longer tracks this time...

EDIT: BTW, Grid 1 had Le Mans circuit, wich is a long track, by the way...

If they cannot make long tracks because of the engine, so why not give us *more* tracks instead? They could re-use the same textures, I wouldn't care. But they don't. So, their limit is the budget in my opinion...

 

[DD]

Silly and interesting at the same time: the new Live Routes System http://youtu.be/EoofO9NTovM

 

[Meelow]

Grid 2 might come to Wii U.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/09/27/codemasters-not-ruling-out-wii-u-ports/

 

[drifter444]

New gameplay videos! So Beautiful.

I'm getting strong PGR2 vibes from the 2nd video. I really can't wait for this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbfuMR978GA&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhXjVXpPuX8&feature=player_embedded

edit: Dam, I'm so late lol!

 

[Dilly]

Yeah, there goes my hopes of ever playing another Race Driver.

 

[Visualante2]

New gameplay videos! So Beautiful.

I'm getting strong PGR2 vibes from the 2nd video. I really can't wait for this game.

I can see where you're coming from, I think it's mostly because that track was in PGR2

 

[Diablohead]

I really miss cockpits in these videos the bonnet is so ridged too compared to say forza 4 where it has a little feeling to it over bumps.

One thing I will give is that codies have nailed the lighting rather well, it looks real nice in those videos and the rockside looks nice and crisp, but I really don't see anything which screams you can't hack cockpits apart from just not wanting to make them.